I've decided that the time has come to move on from my old Athlon XP 2100+ system, in no small part because I'd like to play Oblivion. I also happen to have a bit of coin to spare atm, so I'm looking at a major system upgrade. Actually, I'm looking at most of a new system, with only optical drives, case, psu, and peripherals being held over. I've been trying to get up to speed on recent hardware, but could really use some input from people who follow this stuff all the time. The budget is about Cdn$900.
Case - Custom
PSU - existing Seasonic Super Tornado 400. It's not ATX 2.0, but it's specced for 22 amps on the 12v rail, so I think with the addition of a pci-e power adaptor cord I should be good. Will double-check projected demand for 12v before final decision though.
Motherboard - Oh jeez. Well, Core 2 Duo is out I think, because I understand the 6300 and 6400 won't be released for a couple months yet, and the higher-end models will break the budget. That leaves a choice between AM2 and 939. On the one hand, AM2 is a bit more energy efficient and has a bit of an advantage in future-proofing. On the other hand, I've had a hard time finding reviews of AM2 gear, 939 performance seems to be just as good, prices are similar, and 939 is proven, mature technology.
Now, a note on future-proofing: I spent a lot of effort last time round on giving myself a nice upgrade path, and then I didn't do most of the upgrades I'd made allowances for. This time round, my plan is to buy the best system I can right now, and expect that there won't be any upgrades beyond perhaps, maybe, extra RAM or another hard drive. I fully expect that even if I have an open route to upgrade my cpu, by the time I get to doing it nothing available for sale will be compatible. I could have stuck a Barton 3200 onto my mobo, but did I? No. And now I can't unless I buy a used one of unknown reliability off of eBay. So, what I get now is what I'll be using for the next 3-4 years.
Back to the mobo. I'm not opposed to spending a few extra bucks for a reputable brand, etc. I don't want to spend money on stuff I won't use, though. I won't use more than 2 hard drives. I don't own anything that has a firewire plug. I don't have any use for SLI or Crossfire. I don't need built-in wifi, since I can very easily string real copper to the other side of my apt. So, pretty much any good quality budget motherboard. With no fan. And preferably with the 20 pin psu plug to the right of the cpu socket.
CPU - Obviously I'll be waiting a couple weeks on this, given the immanent price cuts from AMD. I had been thinking of trying to move to an X2 3800, but I've begun wondering whether I might not be better of with something like a 3500, and spend the extra money on the gpu. Since I'm not going to be able to afford the latest and greatest video card, I'm likely to be gpu-limited even with just a single core, am I not?
HSF - A Ninja if I go 939. If I go AM2, I'm not sure. Possibly this monstrosity with a Nexus 120, or possibly the AM2 version of the Zalman 9500. Green leds don't bother me, as I won't be able to see them anyways.
RAM - 1 gig or 2? Will 2 make a difference, or will I gain more from another $100 moved into video card budget?
Hard drive - Probably a WD SE16 250GB. I've had good experiences with WD, even if my old 80GB is a noisy little bastard, and I understand the new ones are competitive on the quiet front.
Video card - At first I was looking at Gigabyte's passive 7600GT. At about $200 it fits nicely in the budget, and it's readily available. But given my above musings on what my limiting factor once I fire up Oblivion will be, I'm wondering about moving up a ways. There are a couple passive 7900GTs, though I haven't found a Canadian vendor for them. I guess I could have a go at a good aftermarket gpu cooler, but I'm out of the loop on these. And what about ATI? What are the comparable models, and might they be better values?
So, my initial thought was something like:
X2 3800
2GB RAM
7600GT
But I'm wondering if I won't be better off with something more like:
3500
1GB RAM
7900GT (or maybe ATI offering?)
Thoughts on the 939/AM2 question are also welcome.
Time for major upgrade
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
I recommend going for 2GB of RAM. Even some of today's games are making use of 2GB of RAM, let alone tomorrow's. Not to mention that a dual-core CPU will increase your level of productivity and overall OS demands if you make use of it, making that extra 1GB all the more vital. You can very good, low-latency DDR2 2GB kits for $150 AR.
What are you planning on doing with the system mostly? It seems like your looking at gaming cards so in that respect you probably would be better off getting a slower cpu and spend the extra on the gpu. Unfortunately Im hearing alot of bad reviews about 7900gt's having various issues. If your trying to play oblivion on a budget your pretty much in the same boat as me right now. Your #%$^ed. The ati 1800 and 1900 family run them the best but then you have a super hot card dumping heat in your system. And the 7600gt is kinda underpowered for oblivion. While the 7900gt does better but too many people are having issues. And the 7900gtx is going for over $400. Of course the 1900xt seems to run oblivion pretty well and is ONLY 
$350.
Even switching from a low level sempron to an X2 isnt going to have as big an effect on gaming as switching from a lesser video card to a faster one.
$350.Even switching from a low level sempron to an X2 isnt going to have as big an effect on gaming as switching from a lesser video card to a faster one.
The system gets used for a variety of things, but the only things that will actually stress it are games. But I don't want to design just to run a specific game - it's very likely I'll be using it for at least 3 years, and I expect that I won't play just Oblivion during that time period.
The 7900GT does look like it would fit into my budget best. Pity about the issues. Maybe I'll have to convince myself to find more budget for this thing.
The 7900GT does look like it would fit into my budget best. Pity about the issues. Maybe I'll have to convince myself to find more budget for this thing.
Hi,
one can upgrade to 2GB easily without losing any money ...
1GB is sufficient for every normal desktop task ... 2GB brings a small load time improvement in a few demanding games .. nothing critical ..
I mean I just simultaniously started the following programs:
Visual Studio Professional, Visual FoxPro, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Reader, Everest Home Edition, Mozilla Firefox & Thunderbird, Opera, Antivirus, Winamp, MS Excel & Word, Macromedia Flash + Apache Webserver & Filezilla FTP are running as services ... my memory footprint currently is about 600MB ...
DualCore is only an advantage if you do heavy background processing like rendering animations/encoding MPEG/DivX video/compiling large programs and want to work smoothly besides this.
For games DualCore does not matter that much !yet! .. this may change in the future ... most games are MhZ hungry and you'll get more Mhz for the money when choosing a singlecore over a dualcore.
Christian
I would get 1GB and put the saved money in either a better CPU or GPU..I recommend going for 2GB of RAM. Even some of today's games are making use of 2GB of RAM, let alone tomorrow's. Not to mention that a dual-core CPU will increase your level of productivity and overall OS demands if you make use of it, making that extra 1GB all the more vital.
one can upgrade to 2GB easily without losing any money ...
1GB is sufficient for every normal desktop task ... 2GB brings a small load time improvement in a few demanding games .. nothing critical ..
I mean I just simultaniously started the following programs:
Visual Studio Professional, Visual FoxPro, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Reader, Everest Home Edition, Mozilla Firefox & Thunderbird, Opera, Antivirus, Winamp, MS Excel & Word, Macromedia Flash + Apache Webserver & Filezilla FTP are running as services ... my memory footprint currently is about 600MB ...
DualCore is only an advantage if you do heavy background processing like rendering animations/encoding MPEG/DivX video/compiling large programs and want to work smoothly besides this.
For games DualCore does not matter that much !yet! .. this may change in the future ... most games are MhZ hungry and you'll get more Mhz for the money when choosing a singlecore over a dualcore.
Christian
I dunno. . . with about 10-30 tabs open in 2-3 windows, firefox will easily jump to 200-300MB by itself. Opera's pretty much the same too. I'm sure if you have all those programs just opened its fine, but if you have a few large Word and Excel documents open along with Flash and a decent sized session in Firefox, you'll be pushing up to 600-800MB. But it still only gets a little sluggish since you do have virtual memory. But, with heavy multitasking or high end games, I'd go for 2GB.jaQa wrote:Hi,
I mean I just simultaniously started the following programs:
Visual Studio Professional, Visual FoxPro, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Reader, Everest Home Edition, Mozilla Firefox & Thunderbird, Opera, Antivirus, Winamp, MS Excel & Word, Macromedia Flash + Apache Webserver & Filezilla FTP are running as services ... my memory footprint currently is about 600MB ...
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HammerSandwich
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gorsnak, I note your point about upgrades, but my recommendation is to leave the option available.
If you're buying new RAM anyway, get AM2. That will allow you to swap just mobo & CPU if you later decide that you want an Intel chip. OTOH, if you have 1GB in your current rig, going 939 would allow you to spend a bit more on the CPU or GPU.
I'd surely buy a dual-core CPU if the projected price cuts come true. Sure, today's games don't really benefit, but the possibility that you'll use the same CPU for 3 years says that things might change a little. (BTW, if X2s are available at $150ish and you want a single-core 939 chip anyway, PM me. )
For the vidcard, I'd consider an Evga 7600GT. Evga will not void your warranty if you swap coolers, and they offer a trade-up plan. You can RMA the card within 3 months of purchase and receive a full credit toward a new card. Perhaps you can do better by selling the 7600 privately, but I like having choices. If I were convinced that the DX10 cards would be out in 3 months, I'd probably buy an Evga today...
Good luck! I'm sure it will be a killer PC.
If you're buying new RAM anyway, get AM2. That will allow you to swap just mobo & CPU if you later decide that you want an Intel chip. OTOH, if you have 1GB in your current rig, going 939 would allow you to spend a bit more on the CPU or GPU.
I'd surely buy a dual-core CPU if the projected price cuts come true. Sure, today's games don't really benefit, but the possibility that you'll use the same CPU for 3 years says that things might change a little. (BTW, if X2s are available at $150ish and you want a single-core 939 chip anyway, PM me.
)For the vidcard, I'd consider an Evga 7600GT. Evga will not void your warranty if you swap coolers, and they offer a trade-up plan. You can RMA the card within 3 months of purchase and receive a full credit toward a new card. Perhaps you can do better by selling the 7600 privately, but I like having choices. If I were convinced that the DX10 cards would be out in 3 months, I'd probably buy an Evga today...
Good luck! I'm sure it will be a killer PC.
You make a good point about the RAM and AM2. I do need new ram (currently have 2x256MB, not positive what speed but I know it's not 400), and moving to AM2 would leave me with more options down the road, even if I don't end up using them. Options are always good to have.HammerSandwich wrote:gorsnak, I note your point about upgrades, but my recommendation is to leave the option available.
If you're buying new RAM anyway, get AM2. That will allow you to swap just mobo & CPU if you later decide that you want an Intel chip. OTOH, if you have 1GB in your current rig, going 939 would allow you to spend a bit more on the CPU or GPU.
I'd surely buy a dual-core CPU if the projected price cuts come true. Sure, today's games don't really benefit, but the possibility that you'll use the same CPU for 3 years says that things might change a little. (BTW, if X2s are available at $150ish and you want a single-core 939 chip anyway, PM me.
For the vidcard, I'd consider an Evga 7600GT. Evga will not void your warranty if you swap coolers, and they offer a trade-up plan. You can RMA the card within 3 months of purchase and receive a full credit toward a new card. Perhaps you can do better by selling the 7600 privately, but I like having choices. If I were convinced that the DX10 cards would be out in 3 months, I'd probably buy an Evga today...
Good luck! I'm sure it will be a killer PC.
If I'm going to go with a 7600GT, though, I think I'd go with the Gigabyte Silentpipe model. It's not that I'm afraid of swapping coolers, but if I can get a passive configuration straight from the factory, that seems the way to go.
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~El~Jefe~
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there is no question that ATI x1xxx series is the card for oblivion. x1900 series is best for it, why bother with anything else? Future proofing means latest technology out now. Currently, for visual quality, thats x1900 series.
I am not sure why anyone would get a card that doesnt have the best visual quality. I mean, thats what a graphics card does, gives visual quality... shrugs.
Anyways, chip, would be conroe I guess. I really wouldnt buy one to be honest, there is little known about the boards and such. 4 years all chips out will be useless. We have been on the single core with speed bumps for many years now (26 years) so things havent changed much until now. K8L will be a different ballgame, and in 4 years, 8-16 cores will be standard. a 4 core chip would last quite a long time, but it isnt out yet until the spring.
SO. i suggest cheap and quality. Asrock board, am2 dual core low speed chip or conroe low speed chip. The speed of the chip has little to do with gaming. The technology has everything to do with gaming and future proofing.
HD: the new 500gb drive from WD that MikeC tested for silence.
Ram: 1 gig pieces minimum. just get 2 of them. one day, youll want 4 gigs. Right now i have 2 gigs on 939 asrock dual sata II with a 4200 chip. I fly through any task, never a wait. I would like to get 4 gigs, but currently, my technology slows down on 4 gigs. I really want them though. 2 gigs get almost used up when i have my automated services running, my radio station (not a web radio, a radio station, FM) and playing BF2.
I am not sure why anyone would get a card that doesnt have the best visual quality. I mean, thats what a graphics card does, gives visual quality... shrugs.
Anyways, chip, would be conroe I guess. I really wouldnt buy one to be honest, there is little known about the boards and such. 4 years all chips out will be useless. We have been on the single core with speed bumps for many years now (26 years) so things havent changed much until now. K8L will be a different ballgame, and in 4 years, 8-16 cores will be standard. a 4 core chip would last quite a long time, but it isnt out yet until the spring.
SO. i suggest cheap and quality. Asrock board, am2 dual core low speed chip or conroe low speed chip. The speed of the chip has little to do with gaming. The technology has everything to do with gaming and future proofing.
HD: the new 500gb drive from WD that MikeC tested for silence.
Ram: 1 gig pieces minimum. just get 2 of them. one day, youll want 4 gigs. Right now i have 2 gigs on 939 asrock dual sata II with a 4200 chip. I fly through any task, never a wait. I would like to get 4 gigs, but currently, my technology slows down on 4 gigs. I really want them though. 2 gigs get almost used up when i have my automated services running, my radio station (not a web radio, a radio station, FM) and playing BF2.
GPU - You can get an HIS x1900gt for $250 @ newegg and put a vf900 on it. I think that's your best option for Oblivion. Note that this may require you to sell your old PSU and get a new one.
CPU - I would go with an Athlon 3500/3800 and forget about dual core for this generation. The single cores are going to be an awesome value for gamers while everyone else is racing to get conroe. If you go with an AM2 setup, you can always add a 65 nm dual-core later. Right now, put your money into more video or more RAM.
RAM - 1GB for now. 2GB if you can afford it. GPU is more important. If you do decide to get 1GB, I would get it in a 1 GB stick.
Mobo - I don't know much about the silencing features of AM2 boards. I do know that most AM2 boards have an NForce chipset with some kind of heatpipe setup or fan which can make life difficult. There's also a no-frills ASRock AM2V890-VSTA built with a VIA chipset for $65. That might be perfect for your requirements. Unfortunately, ATI is late to the AM2 party
BTW, what is your budget?
Suggestion: Look at tomshardware.com for the article titled 'Can Your Rig Run Oblivion?' in the 'Build Your Own' section.
Hope this was helpful.
CPU - I would go with an Athlon 3500/3800 and forget about dual core for this generation. The single cores are going to be an awesome value for gamers while everyone else is racing to get conroe. If you go with an AM2 setup, you can always add a 65 nm dual-core later. Right now, put your money into more video or more RAM.
RAM - 1GB for now. 2GB if you can afford it. GPU is more important. If you do decide to get 1GB, I would get it in a 1 GB stick.
Mobo - I don't know much about the silencing features of AM2 boards. I do know that most AM2 boards have an NForce chipset with some kind of heatpipe setup or fan which can make life difficult. There's also a no-frills ASRock AM2V890-VSTA built with a VIA chipset for $65. That might be perfect for your requirements. Unfortunately, ATI is late to the AM2 party
BTW, what is your budget?
Suggestion: Look at tomshardware.com for the article titled 'Can Your Rig Run Oblivion?' in the 'Build Your Own' section.
Hope this was helpful.
Hi again,
if you're looking for a budget 939/AM2 motherboard
i can only tell positive things about these AsRock boards.
I own the 939 Dual Sata version, and my whole PC crashed not once since I built this setup. It also takes a 20pin power connector so you should be able to reuse you PSU.
For AM2 the ASrock AM2XLI-eSATA2 is a nice budget board, also takes a 20pin power connector.
You may have a look at http://www.ocwforums.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=31
, this is probably the No1 Forum for AsRock users.
Christian
if you're looking for a budget 939/AM2 motherboard
i can only tell positive things about these AsRock boards.
I own the 939 Dual Sata version, and my whole PC crashed not once since I built this setup. It also takes a 20pin power connector so you should be able to reuse you PSU.
For AM2 the ASrock AM2XLI-eSATA2 is a nice budget board, also takes a 20pin power connector.
You may have a look at http://www.ocwforums.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=31
, this is probably the No1 Forum for AsRock users.
Christian