I need to upgrade the family PC used primarily for gaming and web surfing etc.
The current configuration is in signature but the video card has died- hence the desire to upgrade.
I could just replace VC and stay with the current build but I have already gone that route and the BFG 7800GS I bought didnt even last 4 hours -which has me thinking I may have problems with the board or slot.
I really think its time to upgrade it anyway.
I did try an older GF Ti4400 card on this board and it seemed fine running in the system for an entire day.
The 6800 GT that died was modded with a Zalman VF-700 and I have wondered if that reduced the life of the card -perhaps there isnt enough airflow in the case for hotter cards?
It is a pretty decent system platform with a reasonably quiet chassis with the fans at 5V. The only marginal items from a silencing perspective are the PSU, and HD.
I could upgrade the HD but it has good capacity, and is pretty quiet suspended with the elastic bands.
The Enermax 600 wtt is overkill but the fan doesnt seem to ramp up much that I have noticed.
Still, if you would replace these parts I am open to your suggestions. I have found that I really like the pair of SP 80's (Nidec motors) in Raid 0 that I am using in my other system and now Samsung has the Spinpoint T series that I would love to build a system around.
I am thinking a new PCI express board with a CD2 CPU and new DDR2 533 memory, along with changing the Processor fan from the Panaflow to a Nexus or Yate Loon.
The VC could be a 7900 GTO??
Please give me some ideas of what you would do with the system and what you would replace and what to buy.
Your help is much appreciated!
Quiet- decent performance upgrade to older 754 based system
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Interesting ideas, however you seem to have already persuaded yourself for a whole now system, I wont detract from that, but I am intrested in what you plan to do with your current/old system. Have you done any further testing than what you have stated already, so far there is no conclucive evidence that you actually need a new motherboard only circumstantial evidence.
Andy
Andy
Andy,
Thanks, and no I havent done any extensive testing of the boards AGP slot other than swapping cards around. I am not sure how to even test the slot.
When the cards BOTH died they looked the same though- garbled output with lots of colors and random numbers on screen. Slipped in the older GF 4 card though and it worked fine after each failure with the other cards (both 6800 GT and 7800GS).
Both of those cards were BFG- which has me strongly suspecting a problem with their quality and reliability. The 6800 GT ran for app 15 months before it started to fail. First it started slowing down and then apparently died completely (I was in Iraq at the time and couldn't check it over).
I remember checking the temp on the card using the Nvidia utility and the temp being in the 65-70C range (under load) after modding the card with the VF-700. This was with the fan at 5 volts.
There isn't a lot of airflow from the chassis fans either. Another possibility is that it overheated due to the location of the computer -inside a desk with door closed- maybe it heated up under load - they played WOW for hours on end on it!
That doesnt explain why the new card died so quickly though- only 4 hours- and the door was open. I chalked this one up to a bad part from BFG, and returned it to Newegg right away.
Right now I am frustrated by the poor upgrade path avail for this computer anyway with AGP. The Radeon X1950 is a loud card and overpriced - if you can get it. That only leaves the older 7600 GS or X800 series which are not a very good investment for a family gaming PC in my opinion.
Please keep the dialogue coming!
Thanks, and no I havent done any extensive testing of the boards AGP slot other than swapping cards around. I am not sure how to even test the slot.
When the cards BOTH died they looked the same though- garbled output with lots of colors and random numbers on screen. Slipped in the older GF 4 card though and it worked fine after each failure with the other cards (both 6800 GT and 7800GS).
Both of those cards were BFG- which has me strongly suspecting a problem with their quality and reliability. The 6800 GT ran for app 15 months before it started to fail. First it started slowing down and then apparently died completely (I was in Iraq at the time and couldn't check it over).
I remember checking the temp on the card using the Nvidia utility and the temp being in the 65-70C range (under load) after modding the card with the VF-700. This was with the fan at 5 volts.
There isn't a lot of airflow from the chassis fans either. Another possibility is that it overheated due to the location of the computer -inside a desk with door closed- maybe it heated up under load - they played WOW for hours on end on it!
That doesnt explain why the new card died so quickly though- only 4 hours- and the door was open. I chalked this one up to a bad part from BFG, and returned it to Newegg right away.
Right now I am frustrated by the poor upgrade path avail for this computer anyway with AGP. The Radeon X1950 is a loud card and overpriced - if you can get it. That only leaves the older 7600 GS or X800 series which are not a very good investment for a family gaming PC in my opinion.
Please keep the dialogue coming!
-
where?wolf
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:10 am
- Location: Southern Sweden
[quote="velvet45"]Andy,
Thanks, and no I havent done any extensive testing of the boards AGP slot other than swapping cards around. I am not sure how to even test the slot.
When the cards BOTH died they looked the same though- garbled output with lots of colors and random numbers on screen. Slipped in the older GF 4 card though and it worked fine after each failure with the other cards (both 6800 GT and 7800GS).
Both of those cards were BFG- which has me strongly suspecting a problem with their quality and reliability. The 6800 GT ran for app 15 months before it started to fail. First it started slowing down and then apparently died completely (I was in Iraq at the time and couldn't check it over).
I remember checking the temp on the card using the Nvidia utility and the temp being in the 65-70C range (under load) after modding the card with the VF-700. This was with the fan at 5 volts.
There isn't a lot of airflow from the chassis fans either. Another possibility is that it overheated due to the location of the computer -inside a desk with door closed- maybe it heated up under load - they played WOW for hours on end on it!
That doesnt explain why the new card died so quickly though- only 4 hours- and the door was open. I chalked this one up to a bad part from BFG, and returned it to Newegg right away.
Right now I am frustrated by the poor upgrade path avail for this computer anyway with AGP. The Radeon X1950 is a loud card and overpriced - if you can get it. That only leaves the older 7600 GS or X800 series which are not a very good investment for a family gaming PC in my opinion.
Please keep the dialogue coming![/quote]
Hi!
One cheaper way to leap over to PCI E. Would be to get an Epox 8NPA+ SLI mobo.
This mobo is socket 754. So your cpu will work very nice in it. I have this mobo with a 3000+ Clawhammer in my second rig. The cpu is overclocked 400 MHz. And I have a X1800GTO PCI E + 2 gig Corsair XMS. I have no performance problems at all with this rig. And the fact that it can't run dual channel RAM. Does'nt affect the performance much.
Actually, in some tests I have seen. The Epox 8NPA+ SLI performs as well as some of the better socket 939 mobos.
The BIOS is extensive. Not much you can't tweak there. And as I have 2 Epox mobos. The other one is socket 939 (9NPA + SLI). I have only good things to say about Epox products.
Their mobos is fast and reliable. So seriously consider this option if you are going PCI E.
Thanks, and no I havent done any extensive testing of the boards AGP slot other than swapping cards around. I am not sure how to even test the slot.
When the cards BOTH died they looked the same though- garbled output with lots of colors and random numbers on screen. Slipped in the older GF 4 card though and it worked fine after each failure with the other cards (both 6800 GT and 7800GS).
Both of those cards were BFG- which has me strongly suspecting a problem with their quality and reliability. The 6800 GT ran for app 15 months before it started to fail. First it started slowing down and then apparently died completely (I was in Iraq at the time and couldn't check it over).
I remember checking the temp on the card using the Nvidia utility and the temp being in the 65-70C range (under load) after modding the card with the VF-700. This was with the fan at 5 volts.
There isn't a lot of airflow from the chassis fans either. Another possibility is that it overheated due to the location of the computer -inside a desk with door closed- maybe it heated up under load - they played WOW for hours on end on it!
That doesnt explain why the new card died so quickly though- only 4 hours- and the door was open. I chalked this one up to a bad part from BFG, and returned it to Newegg right away.
Right now I am frustrated by the poor upgrade path avail for this computer anyway with AGP. The Radeon X1950 is a loud card and overpriced - if you can get it. That only leaves the older 7600 GS or X800 series which are not a very good investment for a family gaming PC in my opinion.
Please keep the dialogue coming![/quote]
Hi!
One cheaper way to leap over to PCI E. Would be to get an Epox 8NPA+ SLI mobo.
This mobo is socket 754. So your cpu will work very nice in it. I have this mobo with a 3000+ Clawhammer in my second rig. The cpu is overclocked 400 MHz. And I have a X1800GTO PCI E + 2 gig Corsair XMS. I have no performance problems at all with this rig. And the fact that it can't run dual channel RAM. Does'nt affect the performance much.
Actually, in some tests I have seen. The Epox 8NPA+ SLI performs as well as some of the better socket 939 mobos.
The BIOS is extensive. Not much you can't tweak there. And as I have 2 Epox mobos. The other one is socket 939 (9NPA + SLI). I have only good things to say about Epox products.
Their mobos is fast and reliable. So seriously consider this option if you are going PCI E.
Another option is the GigaByte K8NE. I just upgraded my HTPC (Athlon64 3000+ S754 51W CPU) and it is as happy as a clam with it. I picked up a used x16 PCIe XFX 6600GT for it and am loving it. You get almost the same experience as a S939 NForce 4 system with the exception of dual-channel memory.
Good luck!
-Derek
Good luck!
-Derek
Derek and Wolf,
Thanks! Great options there that I will seriously consider.
One of the reasons I am not keen on total rebuild is cost. I still want to get some more use out of the IDE drives.
If I go to a 939 board, I could still do that but would also have to invest in a processor. An AM2 board would also then add DDR2 memory, and be even more. You get the idea...
I would love to update to C2D system but they are even more money as those chipsets are going completely away from legacy support for IDE drives. I would have to replace the drives or deal with less than optimal or raw controllers (such as JMicron for 965 chipset) or purchase a separate PCI IDE card to avoid problems.
It just seems that it is a choice to completely rebuild, or try to conservatively update and keep costs in line. When I build a system, I like to update everything so that it is not a fight trying to mix old and new components, but I am finally starting to tire of the constant high costs in rebuilding, and want to get more than 15 months out of a system- is that asking too much??
Thanks for listening to my long winded reply!
Thanks! Great options there that I will seriously consider.
One of the reasons I am not keen on total rebuild is cost. I still want to get some more use out of the IDE drives.
If I go to a 939 board, I could still do that but would also have to invest in a processor. An AM2 board would also then add DDR2 memory, and be even more. You get the idea...
I would love to update to C2D system but they are even more money as those chipsets are going completely away from legacy support for IDE drives. I would have to replace the drives or deal with less than optimal or raw controllers (such as JMicron for 965 chipset) or purchase a separate PCI IDE card to avoid problems.
It just seems that it is a choice to completely rebuild, or try to conservatively update and keep costs in line. When I build a system, I like to update everything so that it is not a fight trying to mix old and new components, but I am finally starting to tire of the constant high costs in rebuilding, and want to get more than 15 months out of a system- is that asking too much??
Thanks for listening to my long winded reply!
-
where?wolf
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:10 am
- Location: Southern Sweden
[quote="velvet45"]Derek and Wolf,
Thanks! Great options there that I will seriously consider.
One of the reasons I am not keen on total rebuild is cost. I still want to get some more use out of the IDE drives.
If I go to a 939 board, I could still do that but would also have to invest in a processor. An AM2 board would also then add DDR2 memory, and be even more. You get the idea...
I would love to update to C2D system but they are even more money as those chipsets are going completely away from legacy support for IDE drives. I would have to replace the drives or deal with less than optimal or raw controllers (such as JMicron for 965 chipset) or purchase a separate PCI IDE card to avoid problems.
It just seems that it is a choice to completely rebuild, or try to conservatively update and keep costs in line. When I build a system, I like to update everything so that it is not a fight trying to mix old and new components, but I am finally starting to tire of the constant high costs in rebuilding, and want to get more than 15 months out of a system- is that asking too much??
Thanks for listening to my long winded reply![/quote]
The socket 754 AMD cpu's, are still going strong, thanks to Epox and Gigabyte. And as for dual channel RAM? It will give about 5% performance increase to the RAM. So you wont miss it that much. At least not, if your DDR RAM is decently fast and have good timings.
But if you have decided to go for more modern stuff?
Stay away from AM2. This whas just AMD's attempt to try to compete with Intel in the DDR II territory. And it did'nt turn out very well.
And as AMD cpu's always benefitted from Ram with low latencys. The socket 939 is a better choise. And compairative tests, have shown, That the socket 939 rigs are better performers than most of the AM2 dito.
A good and decently priced s.939 cpu is the 3700+ with 1 mb L2 cashe. Or one of the socket 939 AMD X2 cpus. The 4400+ is a good choise there.
Just stay away from the Asus AN 8 premium and the SLI version of the same board. They have some Issues. Asus actually faired better with their AM2 boards and the new Intels
Abit, DFI and Epox are good choises for s. 939 mobo's
Thanks! Great options there that I will seriously consider.
One of the reasons I am not keen on total rebuild is cost. I still want to get some more use out of the IDE drives.
If I go to a 939 board, I could still do that but would also have to invest in a processor. An AM2 board would also then add DDR2 memory, and be even more. You get the idea...
I would love to update to C2D system but they are even more money as those chipsets are going completely away from legacy support for IDE drives. I would have to replace the drives or deal with less than optimal or raw controllers (such as JMicron for 965 chipset) or purchase a separate PCI IDE card to avoid problems.
It just seems that it is a choice to completely rebuild, or try to conservatively update and keep costs in line. When I build a system, I like to update everything so that it is not a fight trying to mix old and new components, but I am finally starting to tire of the constant high costs in rebuilding, and want to get more than 15 months out of a system- is that asking too much??
Thanks for listening to my long winded reply![/quote]
The socket 754 AMD cpu's, are still going strong, thanks to Epox and Gigabyte. And as for dual channel RAM? It will give about 5% performance increase to the RAM. So you wont miss it that much. At least not, if your DDR RAM is decently fast and have good timings.
But if you have decided to go for more modern stuff?
Stay away from AM2. This whas just AMD's attempt to try to compete with Intel in the DDR II territory. And it did'nt turn out very well.
And as AMD cpu's always benefitted from Ram with low latencys. The socket 939 is a better choise. And compairative tests, have shown, That the socket 939 rigs are better performers than most of the AM2 dito.
A good and decently priced s.939 cpu is the 3700+ with 1 mb L2 cashe. Or one of the socket 939 AMD X2 cpus. The 4400+ is a good choise there.
Just stay away from the Asus AN 8 premium and the SLI version of the same board. They have some Issues. Asus actually faired better with their AM2 boards and the new Intels
Abit, DFI and Epox are good choises for s. 939 mobo's
Wolf, Thanks for the warning on the AM2 boards. I was not aware of the problems with those. I am presently contemplating either one of the 754 boards you and Derek have mentioned. They both benefit from an updated chipset (NF4) and looks like passive cooling which is good.
I am also tempted to update to a 939 board and a X2 processor like a 4400+ or an Opteron 165 or 170. This option would cost in the range of $175-200 over just updating the 754 board and keeping the same processor. The processor is a clawhammer with 1Mb L2 cache, but does not OC worth a damn, or undervolt well, so I run it pretty much at stock settings.
Is the additional $ worth the extra performance of 1000mHz increase in speed and 2 cores though?? Sounds like about a 25-30% increase. Also once you start getting into that kind of money, you might as well not mess around and go all the way to C2D it seems to me.
Once again, thanks for the great help!
Bryan
I am also tempted to update to a 939 board and a X2 processor like a 4400+ or an Opteron 165 or 170. This option would cost in the range of $175-200 over just updating the 754 board and keeping the same processor. The processor is a clawhammer with 1Mb L2 cache, but does not OC worth a damn, or undervolt well, so I run it pretty much at stock settings.
Is the additional $ worth the extra performance of 1000mHz increase in speed and 2 cores though?? Sounds like about a 25-30% increase. Also once you start getting into that kind of money, you might as well not mess around and go all the way to C2D it seems to me.
Once again, thanks for the great help!
Bryan
i anticipate no problems with am2 and ddr2 ram.
dual channel, memory bandwidth etc etc. the memory latency and all those ram bandwidth issues are all things on paper i have never once run into in real-world use.
the dualchannel scam has always been about sisoft sandra bar charts with 0.x% real world performance benefits.
dual channel, memory bandwidth etc etc. the memory latency and all those ram bandwidth issues are all things on paper i have never once run into in real-world use.
the dualchannel scam has always been about sisoft sandra bar charts with 0.x% real world performance benefits.
Last edited by rei on Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stay away from 939. CPUs are now hard to find. AMD is not making them anymore. Performance of AM2 is the same and offers a far higher upgrade path including the new 65nm chips and the new "star" chips that are supposed to offer much improved performance. I'm also sad to say that socket 754 is on its last leg. You can pick up a single core 2.4ghz chip for $100 now but that is as fast as they will get. I upgraded a couple of my 754 systems with this chip and I'm hoping it lasts me another few years. Socket 754 was great for a long time but now it seems budget buyers need to go DDR2 to keep alive. All this great DDR ram put to waste. 
Actually, you can still find Opteron single & dual-core CPUs in Socket 939 fairly easily.autoboy wrote:Stay away from 939. CPUs are now hard to find. AMD is not making them anymore. Performance of AM2 is the same and offers a far higher upgrade path including the new 65nm chips and the new "star" chips that are supposed to offer much improved performance. I'm also sad to say that socket 754 is on its last leg. You can pick up a single core 2.4ghz chip for $100 now but that is as fast as they will get. I upgraded a couple of my 754 systems with this chip and I'm hoping it lasts me another few years. Socket 754 was great for a long time but now it seems budget buyers need to go DDR2 to keep alive. All this great DDR ram put to waste.
But let's be honest, unless you are a fanboy, if you are building a totally new system, you'd probably go Intel Core2 Duo as the performance and power draw are both superior to AMD's current offerings. Before you flame me, I'm the one who is replacing is Opteron 144 with an Opteron 175, is running a 3000+ HTPC and is building a Sempron-based PC for my daughter.
However, if you are upgrading and retaining S754, go w/ the Gigabyte board I recommended earlier. It's very nice from both a performance and features standpoint and can be found for under $60.00. Buy a 7600GT in PCIe and crack a beer.
-Derek
I suppose I am a fanboy but I have valid reasons for sticking to AMD. AMD motherboards are more mature, I am familiar with the underclocking abilities and motherboards of AM2, I don't need Jmicron IDE chips, boards are cheaper, I know of at least one good ungrade path for AM2 left in it, and I still own some AMD stock despite the downturn.
Also, despite being very well off, I like to build budget computers and see what I can get out of them. All I need performance wise is the ability to decode HD-DVD movies and any dual core will do for that.
Also, despite being very well off, I like to build budget computers and see what I can get out of them. All I need performance wise is the ability to decode HD-DVD movies and any dual core will do for that.
Performance, yes; power draw, no. AMD are still the best if you are looking for the absolute lowest power consumption in the mainstream chips. It appears from tests that EIST doesn't work very well w/ C2D:let's be honest, unless you are a fanboy, if you are building a totally new system, you'd probably go Intel Core2 Duo as the performance and power draw are both superior to AMD's current offerings
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... ent_6.html
Noted.
However, in the same article, during the 'S&M' test (I'm picturing Prime95 in a leather gimp costume...ugh), the Core2 Duo comes out better than the 4600+ and virtually identical to the 3800+ 64X2 processors. Only when they tweaked the programs (since the microarchitecture of Core2 is significantly different than Netburst) did they get Core2 to consume more wattage. Not sure what that means in real-world testing, but it may mean that Core2 is more optimized for running cool under gaming conditions.
Keep in mind that I'm running a more-or-less AMD shop at home (with the exception of a file server on an old P4 2.4 and my daughter's HTPC for recording PBS Kids shows - also a P4 2.4).
Personally, I'm hoping that K8L knocks one out of the park. Nothing wrong with competition!
-Derek
However, in the same article, during the 'S&M' test (I'm picturing Prime95 in a leather gimp costume...ugh), the Core2 Duo comes out better than the 4600+ and virtually identical to the 3800+ 64X2 processors. Only when they tweaked the programs (since the microarchitecture of Core2 is significantly different than Netburst) did they get Core2 to consume more wattage. Not sure what that means in real-world testing, but it may mean that Core2 is more optimized for running cool under gaming conditions.
Keep in mind that I'm running a more-or-less AMD shop at home (with the exception of a file server on an old P4 2.4 and my daughter's HTPC for recording PBS Kids shows - also a P4 2.4).
Personally, I'm hoping that K8L knocks one out of the park. Nothing wrong with competition!
-Derek
Thanks for the input everyone, I am learning by listening to all the input, Derek, I think I may just buy that Gigabyte 754 board, look for a G7600GT and crack a beer!
The only passive 7600 GT I have found is a Gigabyte on Newegg. Its either that or a X1950 PRO. The Pro isn't horribly loud and much more powerful, but has a fan
Its also tempting to move up to C2D, but at that point, I think I would just build a separate new system, as this system is still IDE, and has a fairly loud PSU- Enermax EG701 600 watt, so really just needs lots of upgrades to be optimal. Its just a gaming PC for the family and it would give me a good excuse to build a new quiet system for myself
Many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread....
The only passive 7600 GT I have found is a Gigabyte on Newegg. Its either that or a X1950 PRO. The Pro isn't horribly loud and much more powerful, but has a fan
Its also tempting to move up to C2D, but at that point, I think I would just build a separate new system, as this system is still IDE, and has a fairly loud PSU- Enermax EG701 600 watt, so really just needs lots of upgrades to be optimal. Its just a gaming PC for the family and it would give me a good excuse to build a new quiet system for myself
Many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread....