YAHTPC: Linux/MythTv w/VMWare, please comment

[jimmyfergus]

Comments and suggestions much appreciated. To be built in the next month or so.

Requirements:

• Will run Knoppmyth (Linux/MythTv), initially with PVR-350 card
• Cheap and green to run - low power consumption, esp. at light load.
• as cheap as is reasonable
• will run 2 or more light-duty VMWare server appliances (web/mail server, file/music server...)
• HDTV-able, 720p probably adequate (SD for near term)
• Generally inaudible from 6ft/2m, mild sound increase under heavy load acceptable

The Plan:

• Case: NSK2400 - It will live inside an enclosed TV cabinet, so I will duct the fan and PSU outlets directly out of the TV cabinet and cut a large air intake. This should also help with noise. Alternatively, I could consider building it 'naked' inside my tv cabinet with picoPSU, which would present a ventilation design challenge, and possible EMI issues, but lower power consumption.
• CPU: Athlon X2 (3800+?) AM2 - AMD rather than Intel for better power consumption at idle. Perhaps I should wait for 65nm? Power of any dual core is likely to be comfortably sufficient, so cheapest and lowest power consumption are my criteria. I'll have to discover how to manage the voltage/clock in Linux.
• Motherboard: ABIT NF-M2 nView - This one sounds good, but I'm not sure if I'm missing other good options. I like: DVI, good onboard graphics, voltage control, BIOS fan control, reportedly quality caps. People are successfully using this board with Knoppmyth.
• Cooler: Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 - I'm planning to undervolt so I expect the Alpine will manage under load(?). While the machine will be lightly loaded most of the time, it may also be under quite heavy load (transcoding etc.) for significant periods. Some audible noise will be tolerable in that circumstance though. I believe the mobo has a 4-pin outlet suitable for controlling the 7's fan.
• Graphics: onboard - The board claims good playback performance ("PureVideo"), and I think a discreet GPU would only be beneficial for good 3D gaming performance (which I don't need)? Comments?
• Mem: 2x512Mb - Would like 2Gb, but currently do this with one VM in 512Mb, so think 1Mb will be enough until prices drop (mobo has 4 slots). Will probably go with a respected brand - I want this thing to be reliable.
• Disk: WD Caviar SE16 400 - Need at least 400Mb. Currently use 320Mb in 2x 160 (one or both old disks may become backup disks, generally spun down).
• DVD SATA reader/burner - Would be nice if it's quiet when playing DVDs, but it's not important.
• Audio: onboard - use PVR-350's output initially, then either onboard analog or S/PDIF for HDTV.

The system should run to about US$600. I already have PVR-350 TV card for now. HDTV tuner to follow when I get an HDTV. I will try the supplied fans to see if it's quiet enough when they're venting back out of the TV cabinet, but most likely I'll replace them, including the PSU fan.

So, any comments? Anything I've missed or bad assumptions I've made? Anyone built machines inside a cabinet with ducted air outlets got some warnings for me? Any comments on the naked/picoPSU option?

Thanks!

[plympton]

The NSK2400 is a nice case - though with the drives up front, I think you can get a bit of hd noise (mainly seeks, as they are rubber mounted). I have my machine mounted in an old armoire with doors closed. I have a hole out the back for the PSU fan, and cut a hole in the middle divider to vent the MB side into the empty right-side.

I had a WD 500 GB drive that was fine, except that it was hot (40 C) and had noisy seeks. The 320 GB drive I had was MUCH better - silent and very quiet seeks. I replaced it with a new Samsung 500 GB drive - 3 platters - for $150 from Newegg - very quiet, much like, or better than the WD 320. Also, runs cooler - just about 31 C.

I have an 80mm Panaflow on 5 volts cooling the HD area (just sticky-taped it down). Might remove it if the Samsung stays cool under load.

Onboard graphics - the 6150 - are really nice, fine for what you & I want.

If you can get a Sata DVD drive, that'd be nice - the ATA cable routing is pretty good, but with SATA it would be better from a routing perspective.

I picked up a stock AMD Opteron cooler for $17 delivered on ebay - just look for 4-heatpipe versions. Copper base + heatpipes - said to cool as good as an XP-90. Strap on and go (well, replace the fan...)

The Tri-Cools are pretty quiet on Low, Medium they are just OK, and High they are pretty bad. I replaced my side fan with a Nexus, but didn't really have to - was ordering stuff from SVC.com anyway, so I tossed it in.

Also, consider getting a VBox HDTV tuner - cheap and well supported (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.p ... uner-cards). You don't need an HDTV to enjoy the digital picture! I have a 10-year old 27" Sony that looks beautiful with HDTV content - you'll never watch Analog tv again, I tell you! PBS HD, multi-cast channels (I get a local Weather Channel off my NBC feed) - good stuff!

-Dan

[Arvo]

Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 is not for socket AM2 (although there can be some options to adapt it).

I have used Arctic Freezer 64 Pro - efficient and relatively quiet cooler, at least quieter than Opteron stock cooler

About mobo - I've built systems on this board, not for silence or for over/underclocking though. Nice mobo.

Well, probably some ATI based boards have less power consumption - nForce isn't known for its efficiency. But I've heard of many problems with Linux and ATI chipsets - IDE draives can be slow, graphics drivers are poor and so on; thereby for Linux I'd prefer ABIT NF-M2 nView.

[jimmyfergus]

Thanks for the info.

plympton: Interesting on the hard drive - its review here was more glowing. I'll have to think about that some more. Also, your HD temps report are very interesting. HDs are supposed to age in direct proportion to their temp. 500Gb would be nice. Interesting thought too on the cooler.

I may end up getting the HDTV sooner rather than later. 32" LCDs are on newegg.com for $600, and best of all, the wife is keen. Still, more research required there.

Arvo: I got the impression the Alpine 7 would fit the AM2 from these two bits of the review:

Alpine 64 fits all K8 sockets — 754, 939, 940 and even AM2

...Alpine 7... The heatsink itself is designed to mount on a K8 system; it is the additional hardware that allows it to be mounted on Socket 775.

Because the Alpine 7 is compatible with K8 systems, it's a little strange that Arctic Cooling sells the Alpine 64 at all. Why go to the trouble of selling two separate products when the Alpine 7 can do the same job as the Alpine 64? Sure, the Alpine 64 is marginally cheaper, but most people aren't likely to sweat an extra dollar or two.

The 7 also has the 4 pin PWM fan, which (I think) this mobo can take advantage of.
Ok, ok, ok, I have to admit I love the fact that it's $10 . Something that performs well and is dirt cheap is really appealing.

[Arvo]

Sorry, my fault - even on Arctic website is stated, that Alpine 7 is AM2 compatible (somehow I didn't notice that yesterday).

[jimmyfergus]

So, I got a bonus at work, and went crazy: bought an HDTV (Hyundai E320D, 32" LCD) and built the machine. Comments below the list.

• Case: NSK2400 - out in the open air, it will make its way inside my tv cabinet shortly, when I build ducts for it.
• CPU: Athlon X2 3800+, 90nm, 65w AM2 - haven't yet configured voltage/clock management in Linux. Didn't wait for 65nm, as I wanted it now, and don't anticipate a huge improvement.
• Motherboard: ABIT NF-M2 nView
• Cooler: Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 - Mobo fan control seems completely adequate to me. Fan is completely inaudible at the lowest (30%) rate and drowned by other noise sources at all loads. I anticipate, especially with undervolting, it should never ramp up.
• Graphics: onboard
• Mem: 2x1GB Patriot Signature PC5300 Went crazy here and kind of regret it - 1Gb would have been more than sufficient right now, as it's using around 300MB, though I run a virtual machine on this box under VMWare, and plan more.
• Disk: Samsung HD501LJ was scared off WD from a number of directions, and 500Gb is very desirable for me.
• DVD: LITE-ON SATA Model SH-16A7S-05 - for $35, SATA cabling is nice. Noisy as hell at full bore, but that doesn't matter to me. Quiet enough when playing a DVD.
• Audio: onboard

Somewhere in the region of $750, but I'm not finished - have to buy an HD tuner... Knoppmyth installed without issues (except no temp sensors working yet). Observations:

I'm not a complete silence obsessive (much), but I want this thing to be inaudible or close to it when I'm 6ft away reading a book. It's not there in this standard state. Once I duct it into the TV cabinet it may be acceptable. Out in the open, it's a long way from that. Those Tricool fans are pretty noisy even on low. It's mostly a turbulence noise, but there's a bit of rattling in there.

There's also a very nasty high pitched electronic whine that I think is from the PSU. That I only notice within about 4ft of the box, mostly with the top off the case, so it's not too bad. The Samsung drive vibration makes a noticeable 120Hz hum, even with its silicon mounting.

I'm really pleased with the Alpine 7 - for $15 delivered, I have no complaints. I haven't done exhaustive testing, but I think it's fully up to cooling this CPU inaudibly.

I haven't worked through undervolting in Linux yet, so it's simply using BIOS Cool'n'Quiet (I think). I also haven't managed to get temperature readings off the CPU. Best I could do was run CPUburn for a while, let it get up to heat, and then reboot and see what the BIOS said. The reboot is very quick (about 10s), and by then it was about 45C. Based on the rate it was dropping, I'd guess it was around 50C at load. I'll report here when I work it out. I think the biggest reason to undervolt though is to save electricity, rather than reduce noise.

In an (my) ideal world, these gripes about the 2400 would be answered for me :

• The PSU only has one SATA power cable, with plugs too close for wiring up a hard drive and an optical drive. I unclipped and moved one plug to do so, but that was a nasty hack (gotta get some insulating tape!).
• The Tricools have big ugly molex power plugs and no RPM wire. Otherwise, I could have plugged them into the Mobo and had BIOS speed control on at least one of them. Another motivation to change them.
• The blue LEDs on the front are obnoxiously intense, particularly the HD one. I covered the hdd one up, and may try to solder a resistor onto the Power one.
• The HDD isolation is at least an attempt, but something more efffective would be great - a rubber-suspended cage?.