Is it possible to put together a quiet htpc to came near the same price as the Appletv. This should be instresting since the amd price drops, and amd cpus can get for $39 for 3000+ sempron.
Thanks
Building a htpc Appletv
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apple tv is not stand alone
From what I understand, the Apple TV is not stand alone, it needs another computer
but, I think it's totally possible to build a something close, the only real problem is the nifty software and the cute remote
but, I think it's totally possible to build a something close, the only real problem is the nifty software and the cute remote
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jessekopelman
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:28 pm
- Location: USA
If size and good looks are not an issue, maybe. Either you would have to have a copy of Windows MCE that you could transfer from a computer you are no longer going to use or it would have to to be based on Linux (and lots of work getting things functional), as the cost of a new copy of Windows MCE would destroy your budget.
nzimmers, there are hacks out there that will give the Apple TV the functionality it needs to be standalone. Seems like too much trouble to me though.
I think either the Apple TV or something you built yourself for $300 will prove too limited in a few years, as support for HD video becomes more important. I'd either buy the Apple TV with the idea that I'll have to buy a new one in 2 years, buy a Mac Mini, or spend Mac Mini type money ($600-700) building my own. Anyway you slice it, you'll be spending $600 or more over a given time period -- Apple TV + Apple TV v2 or a single "something better".The huge amount of time it takes to build it yourself seems poorly spent if the device will only have a useful life of 2 years. Of course, if the real point is the fun of building something why no take on the challenge of trying to do it as cheap as possible and then get to do it all again in two years?
nzimmers, there are hacks out there that will give the Apple TV the functionality it needs to be standalone. Seems like too much trouble to me though.
I think either the Apple TV or something you built yourself for $300 will prove too limited in a few years, as support for HD video becomes more important. I'd either buy the Apple TV with the idea that I'll have to buy a new one in 2 years, buy a Mac Mini, or spend Mac Mini type money ($600-700) building my own. Anyway you slice it, you'll be spending $600 or more over a given time period -- Apple TV + Apple TV v2 or a single "something better".The huge amount of time it takes to build it yourself seems poorly spent if the device will only have a useful life of 2 years. Of course, if the real point is the fun of building something why no take on the challenge of trying to do it as cheap as possible and then get to do it all again in two years?
Yes, it's possible to build a cheap silent HTPC for less than $300. Either of my silent HTPCs or my very quiet main workstation come in under that budget. However, they are extreme budget hacks, with a lot of me waiting around for bargains. None of them are remotely comparable to Apple TV; they use full size ATX motherboards and full size cases. None of them have a hard drive either--they run diskless and boot off the network (I have a file server).
Extreme budget computing is a challenge. Running diskless knocks off a good $60+ off the budget (a 2.5" drive within a scratchbuilt enclosure). Modifying a cheap PSU with an undervolted 80mm fan mod can knock off $30+ off the budget. Finding an awesome deal on old closeout CPU heatsinks can knock off another $30 from the budget. Modding a $10 aquarium into a computer case can knock off another $30.
The combined effects of scrimping and scraping, along with scouring around for bargains can bring the budget under $300 or even under $200.
Extreme budget computing is a challenge. Running diskless knocks off a good $60+ off the budget (a 2.5" drive within a scratchbuilt enclosure). Modifying a cheap PSU with an undervolted 80mm fan mod can knock off $30+ off the budget. Finding an awesome deal on old closeout CPU heatsinks can knock off another $30 from the budget. Modding a $10 aquarium into a computer case can knock off another $30.
The combined effects of scrimping and scraping, along with scouring around for bargains can bring the budget under $300 or even under $200.
I think it would be very hard to build a silent HTPC near the size of the apple TV. That is why I went with a full size mATX and just found a spot for it that is inconspicuous. With good deals and a little bit of modding you can build a very quiet PC for less than $300. Software will be extra.
Shuttle Barebones $129
Nvidia 7300LE w/128mb onboard $50 A real HTPC needs a decent video card and the SIS onboard is not going to cut it
Athlon 3600+x2 $65 With this price you have to go dual core
Kingston 2x512MB 667 Value RAM $60
40GB SATA 2.5 drive $45 (there are cheaper but you will spend extra on the IDE adaptor so why not just get SATA)
You have to add a fan for the cpu and mod the power supply then use crystalCPUID to lower the Vcore to 1.1V or lower and you have a quiet computer
Add it up and you have $345. Oops. I could have gone a lot cheaper but I wanted to get some decent parts. A single core, 512MB of memory, and a cheaper video card would put you below $300 but mine can handle downloaded h.264 with no problems and easily handles HD up to 1080i. I should know, I have pretty much the same system except in a nsk3300.
If you have a CRT TV than a 7100GS would be fine lowering the cost a bit.
Edit: An Arctic cooling Alpine64 is $10 which puts you at $355. I forgot the cpu heatsink since this is a OEM cpu. You should have an extra DVD player right? An apple TV does not come with one so I left it out. There is also a nicer Shuttle case that is $50 more if you want smaller
Shuttle Barebones $129
Nvidia 7300LE w/128mb onboard $50 A real HTPC needs a decent video card and the SIS onboard is not going to cut it
Athlon 3600+x2 $65 With this price you have to go dual core
Kingston 2x512MB 667 Value RAM $60
40GB SATA 2.5 drive $45 (there are cheaper but you will spend extra on the IDE adaptor so why not just get SATA)
You have to add a fan for the cpu and mod the power supply then use crystalCPUID to lower the Vcore to 1.1V or lower and you have a quiet computer
Add it up and you have $345. Oops. I could have gone a lot cheaper but I wanted to get some decent parts. A single core, 512MB of memory, and a cheaper video card would put you below $300 but mine can handle downloaded h.264 with no problems and easily handles HD up to 1080i. I should know, I have pretty much the same system except in a nsk3300.
If you have a CRT TV than a 7100GS would be fine lowering the cost a bit.
Edit: An Arctic cooling Alpine64 is $10 which puts you at $355. I forgot the cpu heatsink since this is a OEM cpu. You should have an extra DVD player right? An apple TV does not come with one so I left it out. There is also a nicer Shuttle case that is $50 more if you want smaller
I would suggest getting an Apple TV and running either Mac OSX or Linux on it. Both community efforts are nearing completion, so a complete desktop experience in a tiny and near-silent package is just around the corner.
The Apple TV is like an unusually-spec'ed laptop (modest CPU/RAM, respectable GPU) without a display or input devices:
1.0 GHz Intel Pentium-M ULV (Dothan)
Intel 945G chipset (integrated graphics disabled)
256MB DDR2-667 (soldered, not upgradeable)
nVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 64MB (up to 1920x1200 HDMI/DVI/Component)
40 GB Fujitsu 4500RPM 2.5" IDE
Realtek 8-channel HD audio codec (optical SPDIF or RCA)
Realtek 10/100 Ethernet
Broadcom BCM43xx 802.11a/b/g/n wireless
USB 2.0 (one physical port)
The CPU, GPU, and chipset are cooled passively against the top of the aluminum case with thermal paste. The hard disk is cooled via the vented bottom panel and a questionable 40mm fan that doesn't seem to do much. I'd be interested if removing the fan makes that much of a difference in HDD temperature,
The Apple TV has gotten rather poor reviews despite boasting a svelte form factor, surprisingly capable hardware, and a nice UI. The software is just incredibly limiting. It's an even smaller Mac Mini without the optical drive (a Mac Nano, if you will), but the software treats it like an iPod. With a decent OS, this box would be great for light usage. With a remote desktop session (i.e. NX, VNC, RDP) running on a more powerful computer, anything but high-end gaming is possible.
I've looked into mini/nano-ITX boards and enclosures, as well as other prefabbed thin clients, and nothing comes close to the capabilities of the Apple TV's hardware (especially in the graphics department) at anywhere near this kind of size and price.
The Apple TV is like an unusually-spec'ed laptop (modest CPU/RAM, respectable GPU) without a display or input devices:
1.0 GHz Intel Pentium-M ULV (Dothan)
Intel 945G chipset (integrated graphics disabled)
256MB DDR2-667 (soldered, not upgradeable)
nVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 64MB (up to 1920x1200 HDMI/DVI/Component)
40 GB Fujitsu 4500RPM 2.5" IDE
Realtek 8-channel HD audio codec (optical SPDIF or RCA)
Realtek 10/100 Ethernet
Broadcom BCM43xx 802.11a/b/g/n wireless
USB 2.0 (one physical port)
The CPU, GPU, and chipset are cooled passively against the top of the aluminum case with thermal paste. The hard disk is cooled via the vented bottom panel and a questionable 40mm fan that doesn't seem to do much. I'd be interested if removing the fan makes that much of a difference in HDD temperature,
The Apple TV has gotten rather poor reviews despite boasting a svelte form factor, surprisingly capable hardware, and a nice UI. The software is just incredibly limiting. It's an even smaller Mac Mini without the optical drive (a Mac Nano, if you will), but the software treats it like an iPod. With a decent OS, this box would be great for light usage. With a remote desktop session (i.e. NX, VNC, RDP) running on a more powerful computer, anything but high-end gaming is possible.
I've looked into mini/nano-ITX boards and enclosures, as well as other prefabbed thin clients, and nothing comes close to the capabilities of the Apple TV's hardware (especially in the graphics department) at anywhere near this kind of size and price.
No, nothing on the Apple TV is upgradeable except for the hard disk and the wireless card (although it's 802.11n-ready, so the only reason to switch it out is to replace it with a part from a vendor that isn't so uncooperative with the free software community). There's nothing in the way of BIOS configurations either, so no undervolting or overclocking.
In its current configuration the Apple TV runs pretty hot. The whole case is a passive heatsink, and it gets pretty toasty. I don't anticipate Apple releasing any higher-powered steppings of the Apple TV anytime soon because they're already pushing the thermal envelope for this form factor. I suppose a process shrink could yield some additional headroom, but it's already very powerful for what they've intended it to do.
The best mod I can think of for the Apple TV is replacing the hard disk with a compact flash card and an IDE-to-CF adapter. Then you can most likely remove the little fan. Going stateless as a PXE thin client would be an attractive option for network administrators, but we don't have enough specifications for the EFI to slipstream a PXE bootloader into the firmware. All we know how to do (from disassembling the binaries) is to embed a kernel and a loader inside of the existing bootloader. And we can only build the bootable image as a mach-o binary using XCode on Mac OSX.
In its current configuration the Apple TV runs pretty hot. The whole case is a passive heatsink, and it gets pretty toasty. I don't anticipate Apple releasing any higher-powered steppings of the Apple TV anytime soon because they're already pushing the thermal envelope for this form factor. I suppose a process shrink could yield some additional headroom, but it's already very powerful for what they've intended it to do.
The best mod I can think of for the Apple TV is replacing the hard disk with a compact flash card and an IDE-to-CF adapter. Then you can most likely remove the little fan. Going stateless as a PXE thin client would be an attractive option for network administrators, but we don't have enough specifications for the EFI to slipstream a PXE bootloader into the firmware. All we know how to do (from disassembling the binaries) is to embed a kernel and a loader inside of the existing bootloader. And we can only build the bootable image as a mach-o binary using XCode on Mac OSX.