Gaming Silent PC - Need to cut costs

Sayguh · Post by **Sayguh** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:58 am

So I've never built a computer before, I'm a total noob but I have been doing a ton of research and have come up with a system that exceeds my budjet. I want some advice on my current system not only how to cut cost, but also if there is any stupid noob mistakes. Also keep in mind I'm not buying this rig for another 4-5 months, and am hoping to not only perfect it, but to also have prices drop some

$160 - PSU Thermaltake 750W W0116RU (quietest 750W I've found)
$180 - MoBo ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus (*Question about this below)
$400 - CPU Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
$ 60 - CPU Cooler Tuniq Tower
$ 20 - CPU Fan (To replace the slightly louder Tuniq fan)
$517 - Video Card GeForce 8800GTX (**Another note below)
$ 55 - Video Cooler (To replace the 8800GTX fan)
$ 8 - Video Cooler Fan Vantec
$250 - RAM, 2x2GB Patriot eXtreme Performance
$240 - Hard Drive 2x500GB Hitachi Deskstar
$200 - Case Thermaltake VA8003SWA (contains 5 fans all under 19dB)
$ 91 - Sound Card Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1
$300 - Monitor Samsung 226BW

Total: $2481
Goal: $2000

I think you guys are going to say drop the price of the monitor, get only one hard drive, and use on board sound. To that I pose 3 questions.
1: When I eventually have 2 8800GTX's running will having a cheaper monitor make the high video card expense moot?
2: Using the SATA Raid supplied by my Mobo, will I have better read times?
3: Will using on board sound slow the processor down? Since it will be used to do all the sound processing?

*Looking at all the SLi mobo's I found many that said when in SLi one of the PCIe slot will run at 8x or both, or one at 4x! What's the deal? Is this something I should worry about? The ASUS P5N32 runs both at 16x no matter what.

**I only want to buy one video card and then I will SLi later in a few months. Is it true there is a big risk in this due to the card being discontinued rather quickly?

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:13 am

First: Welcome to the SPCR!

One: 750W is overkill! You can easily run that set-up with Corsair HX 520W PSU. Its also a lot quieter and cheaper.

8800-series stock fan is quiet. You probably do not hear the fan over the rest system. So you can drop additional fan and vga cooler and listen if stock fan starts annoy you later on.

Change the case. 5 case fans? Thermalfakes 19 d/BA, thos are probably something between vacuum cleaner and jet-engine.

I'd recomend you a Antec Solo but it doesn't fit GTX without slight modification. If you use 200$ for case you can get Antec P-182/B case with that price which fits GTX and is a lot more quieter than your Thermalfake case.

Tuniq is pretty good I hear, but 60$? Consider Thermalright Ultra-120. Ultra-120 eXtreme would be probably overkill, if you don't plan to do serious over clocking, since difference is probably just few degrees and its much more cheaper. And there is no quality issues in Ultra as some has said there is in Ultra eXtreme.

Also lot will happen in 4 or 5 months. Intel's price cuts are almost in here, so your Q6600 will drop quite nicely soonish.

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:26 am

For 1680x1050 resolution, one 8800 GTX covers all present games very well (except the DX10 'improvements'). And by November nVidia will release the G92, AMD may have the 65 nm R650 too. IMO buying a second card 'in a few months' is the worst option, if you really need SLI / Crossfire (on a 30" 2560x1600 monitor you do) then do it now or never. BTW, the Samsung 226 BW, while a very good TN, is plagued by a panel lottery. If you can assure you get the S panel, it's OK. The A panel needs more adjusting from the service menu to get near, while the C panel is to be avoided.
The 8800 GTX doesn't need an aftermarket cooler to be reasonably quiet, but it runs hot with the stock cooler. With a Thermalright HR-03+ the temps could drop by 15-20 degrees. But using a Vantec fan on it - that's anatema on these forums!

laguz1 · Post by **laguz1** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:39 am

Sayguh wrote:
3: Will using on board sound slow the processor down? Since it will be used to do all the sound processing?

The sound card technically does slow down the CPU, but very marginally. It shouldn't make a big difference.

Sayguh wrote: *Looking at all the SLi mobo's I found many that said when in SLi one of the PCIe slot will run at 8x or both, or one at 4x! What's the deal? Is this something I should worry about? The ASUS P5N32 runs both at 16x no matter what.

if you're getting a 8800GTX for a 1680x1050, i wouldn't even think about SLI...that GPU can obliterate all your games at max resolutions. Because of that, if you really want to save smal money, you can get a Gigabyte N650-DS4 board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128044
It's about $50 cheaper than the Asus, and from the reviews, is a good board and overclocker.

Otherwise than that, you might have issues about that 4 gb RAM deal...since i know some boards have issues w/ 4 gb RAM registered

I would get 2 GB of the Crucial Ballistix. They are having massive deals on them at Newegg, and the RAM itself is top quality - Micron D9's
Link here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820146565

Thats another $120 saved too...but the deals are because DDR3 is around the corner anyhow

*oh, and i put a vote in for the Corsair HX520 and Antec P182 - both great stuff

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:55 pm

$160 - PSU Thermaltake 750W W0116RU (quietest 750W I've found)

It's not silent, but it is quiet. You also don't need it; you'll be lucky if you can draw 300 watts with that hardware.

$180 - MoBo ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus (*Question about this below)

I'd get a 650i motherboard, because there is no drawback to running in x8x8 SLI. I also trust Gigabyte, aBit, and a lot of other companies over Asus right now. Remember, they get to pick the motherboards they send to reviewers.

This is a much cleaner, less expensive option that will probably allow you better overclocks (if you're into that)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128044

$400 - CPU Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600

They're going to cost, what, $300 in a couple of days? Not a bad choice, but if you're only going to game, you'll be better off with a higher-clocked dual-core processor.

$ 60 - CPU Cooler Tuniq Tower

You'll get the same performance out of a Scythe Mine for $35. If you're going to drop $60 on a heatsink, there is no active heatsink that can outperform Thermalright's Ultra 120.

$ 20 - CPU Fan (To replace the slightly louder Tuniq fan)

You can spend $20 on a Nexus 120mm fan or $3.50 on a Yate Loon. Guess who Nexus buys theire 120mm fans from?

$517 - Video Card GeForce 8800GTX (**Another note below)

Best decision so far.

$ 55 - Video Cooler (To replace the 8800GTX fan)

Don't need one. It's damn quiet; you can always upgrade later if you want.

$ 8 - Video Cooler Fan Vantec

Again, no.

$250 - RAM, 2x2GB Patriot eXtreme Performance

Another great decision.

$240 - Hard Drive 2x500GB Hitachi Deskstar

Consider a Samsung Spinpoint or Western Digital Caviar. You have chosen loud hard drives.

$200 - Case Thermaltake VA8003SWA (contains 5 fans all under 19dB)

Thermaltake LIES. That's a shitty case, too. I think you'd be better off with an Antec 900. Cooler Master, Lian Li, and Silverstone have cool things, too.

$ 91 - Sound Card Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1

Up to you. You won't notice the performance loss of onboard audio with a multi-core processor, but Creative brings extra features to the table.

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:02 pm

1: When I eventually have 2 8800GTX's running will having a cheaper monitor make the high video card expense moot?

If you know how to manipulate anti-aliasing, then no. It will also help with upcoming, graphics-hungry games.

2: Using the SATA Raid supplied by my Mobo, will I have better read times?

Assuming it's a striped RAID, your seek time will be the same, but your throughput will be higher. If you set your clusters at 32 instead of 64, you'll get better load times, but big file stuff will suffer; 64 if you do anything with movies.

3: Will using on board sound slow the processor down? Since it will be used to do all the sound processing?

Again, not multi-core processors.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:24 pm

You don't mention what type of gaming you'll be doing...so some of this may vary...

How to save a lot of cash with little or no downside:

- forget SLI. I can't imagine any benefit to it with a 22" 1600x1050 monitor. If you were going 30"..that's another story.

- Get a quad core compatible mobo, but then buy a low or mid-end dual core that you can easily overclock. Spend $150 and get enough speed for what you need to do.

- Unless you go SLI, a 500W supply is probably all you will need.

- you don't mention the OS, but you do show 4GB of RAM. 2GB is all you need for XP...can't recommend Vista for gaming until SP1 comes out next spring...also, NVIDIA + Vista = memory resource hog...so, you may need that 4GB.

- Samsung is releasing the 226CW with improved gamut sometime this fall. Supposedly, they'll be using their own glass for it.

mountain · Post by **mountain** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:31 pm

It looks like you're overpricing your components or you just don't shop around much.

$100 - PSU Corsair 520HX (buy.com) or $70 Antec NeoHe 550W at Frys
$180 - MoBo ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus (*Question about this below)
$280 - CPU Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (mwave.com) or wait next week if you want cheaper.
$ 30 - Scythe Mine
$ 5 - CPU Fan Yate Loon at Jab Tech
$500 or less - Video Card GeForce 8800GTX (**Another note below)
$ 55 - Video Cooler (To replace the 8800GTX fan)
$ 8 - Video Cooler Fan Vantec
$200 or less - RAM, 2x2GB Patriot eXtreme Performance
$200 - Hard Drive 2x500GB Seage or WD
$200 - Case Thermaltake VA8003SWA (contains 5 fans all under 19dB)
$ 91 - Sound Card Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1
$300 - Monitor Samsung 226BW

Total - 1849 or less

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:38 pm

CPU: I personally wouldn't go quad-core for a gaming system right now. Intel is cutting its chip prices this week, so I would grab an E6550 (should be $163 according to Intel). However, if you do insist on quad-core, the price of the Q6600 is coming down to $266 this week. Don't pay the pre-cut price!

PSU: Corsair 520 or 620
RAM: What you selected

Mobo: To answer your question about the number of PCIe lanes in SLI config, it didn't make a significant difference in benches when 2*16x chipsets started replacing 2*8x chipsets. I don't think the story's changed any recently. Historically, the problem with SLI using high-end cards is that nVidia doesn't drop the price and keep producing the card you bought 6 months prior; it just stops making it. So don't be surprised if the market isn't flooded with cheap 8800 GTX's when you go to add the second one. (Ask the poor souls who planned something similar with the 6800 Ultra how they made out

)

HD: Using RAID, you'll have better read times, but whether you'll notice enough of an increase to justify the expense ($, noise, risk of array failure) is questionable at best. IMO, RAID 0 doesn't make sense for desktop usage, especially in a silent rig. HD's are often the noisiest component of a properly built SPCR rig, so putting two in for a marginal increase in read speed doesn't make sense. As for RAID 1, you get a nice fault-tolerance and some increase in read speed, but you still have the added noise and expense.

Sound: The ADI chips that Asus uses are better than the Realtek garbage most other manufacturers use. I'd give onboard a shot before laying out the money for an add-in, especially a Creative card (I pity you poor gamers

).

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:18 pm

- you don't mention the OS, but you do show 4GB of RAM. 2GB is all you need for XP...can't recommend Vista for gaming until SP1 comes out next spring

Next spring? Try next month...Microsoft's shooting to get it out by the end of this August. They're pretty hush about it, but that's the most recent estimate.

Also, if you've got an 8800GTX, you won't notice the difference between Vista and XP while gaming. I mean, I have a stack of 8800GTXs, you think I haven't tried?

cienislaw · Post by **cienislaw** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:32 pm

mate, if You dont want to buy system NOW forget such speculation - it have no sense. in 5 months we will have end of the year - new cpus from intel, new gpu from nvidia and for sure price drops. especially when we talk about cpu, gpu, memory, mobo, display, psu or hdd - we know what is good now, but we dont know it will still be good to recomend it ie in 5 months there can be more new stuff on the market. things which wont change to much are:
1. cooler - ultra extreme, nothing else. doesnt matter if it is overkill or not - cpu isnt to cool when we talk about AC.
2. case - p182 or something like this from other brands. if upcomming gpu's will be such big as gtx, You for sure need a spacious case. i dont know if You really need a SLI, but if You want it, keep in mind that 2 cards generates twice heat and eats space (i have solo and for sure i wont put gtx in it, its not about cutting, its simply too small case for such card and i dont want to loose soft mounted hdds).
3. fans - nexus, fanders, noiseblockers, scythe. now fans miss one stuff - from 4 mentioned brands, only scythe have pwm ready fans, so maybe in future there will be better choice for cpu fan, of course if You want to use pwm feature.

with rest stuff ask for help when You will be ready to buy - ppl here are fast, so You will have answer in a day.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:41 pm

Max Slowik wrote:
- you don't mention the OS, but you do show 4GB of RAM. 2GB is all you need for XP...can't recommend Vista for gaming until SP1 comes out next spring
Next spring? Try next month...Microsoft's shooting to get it out by the end of this August. They're pretty hush about it, but that's the most recent estimate.

Also, if you've got an 8800GTX, you won't notice the difference between Vista and XP while gaming. I mean, I have a stack of 8800GTXs, you think I haven't tried?

lol - get WHAT out? public beta?
Otellini
redmondmag
4sysops

Sayguh · Post by **Sayguh** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:37 pm

Wow, you guys are absolutely amazing. I didn't think I'd get such fast response. Thank you very much. I'll go ahead and make some changes and i'll prob. Keep coming back to ask more questions. (Don't worry i'm not going to post a new revision every day)

One question I did have though was how do you determine the Wattage needed for a Rig? Lots of you said I didn't need 750W but I have no idea how to figure out what I need. The specs for the video card just say min of 450W Does that mean with 2 in SLi i need 900? How do I judge these things? Once again, thanks for the help

And i'll keep in touch

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:52 pm

most manufacturers let them know recomended PSU wattages. I have gaming rig that has 7900gs sli. In manual it says: "450w PSU is recomended for single card use and 550w PSU is recomended for Sli" Considering how little 7900gs uses power 550W is overkill.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:56 pm

You can Do it eeeeeeeeBay!

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:24 pm

Sayguh wrote:The specs for the video card just say min of 450W Does that mean with 2 in SLi i need 900? How do I judge these things?

This should give you a feel for how much actual wattage a modern gaming system uses. (You can see the components they used by going back a few pages.) Note that power is being measured from the wall socket (AC power), so the components themselves are using roughly 80% of that power after the PSU converts it to DC.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:58 pm

I way prefer M Audio Revolution soundcards to any Creative or onboard Aud.seems a shame to have a $2000 puter with poorer sound than my old rig.

Look for na app called nLite. It lets you make a stripped down XP or W2k that omiots a LOT of processes.

Set up a Multi-Boot,I recommend Acronis Disk Director. You then can have a All-Purpose partition,and a Maximum Bare Bones XP (or 2 if you game online).

A stripped down,no-bloat OS probably adds more zip than the diff you'd get quad Core or SLI....so $700 less spent and you have about the same power-with less heat and noise.

I'd do one HDD in eSATA. You get to put it at 6' from the case-which should give nice options for silence. You can switch it off when storage access is not needed..even less noise. Meanwhile-one less heat source in the case. One less HDD in the box is also a plus for airflow.

"Big Fan" cases typically use the 13 blade 220 mm (250 with bezel) Felger Carbon has undervolted these to run as low as 350 rpm...which means a lot of air over both CPU and Vid Card-with low noise.

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:57 am

Sayguh wrote:So I've never built a computer before, I'm a total noob but I have been doing a ton of research and have come up with a system that exceeds my budjet. I want some advice on my current system not only how to cut cost, but also if there is any stupid noob mistakes. Also keep in mind I'm not buying this rig for another 4-5 months, and am hoping to not only perfect it, but to also have prices drop some

$160 - PSU Thermaltake 750W W0116RU (quietest 750W I've found)

NO - SEASONIC PSU.

$180 - MoBo ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus

NO GIGABYTE MOBO ($90)

$400 - CPU Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600

NO. THERE IS NO REAL APPLICATION GO 4 THE 3GHZ e6850
$ 60 - CPU Cooler Tuniq Tower

NO. ULTRA 120

$ 20 - CPU Fan (To replace the slightly louder Tuniq fan)

$517 - Video Card GeForce 8800GTX (**Another note below)

NO. THERE ARE NO GAMES. WAIT FOR GEFORCE 9 AND

$ 55 - Video Cooler (To replace the 8800GTX fan)
$ 8 - Video Cooler Fan Vantec

ACELERO + 8600GT
$250 - RAM, 2x2GB Patriot eXtreme Performance
OK
$240 - Hard Drive 2x500GB Hitachi Deskstar
OK
$200 - Case Thermaltake VA8003SWA (contains 5 fans all under 19dB)
NO LIAN LI- ANTEC SOLO- ANTEC 180
$ 91 - Sound Card Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer 7.1
USELESS
$300 - Monitor Samsung 226BW
OK

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:48 am

NO. THERE ARE NO GAMES. WAIT FOR GEFORCE 9 AND

Are you thirteen, andaca? The 8800GTX is like, eight times more powerful than the 8600GT. He wants a gaming computer now. Not in a year.

Also, I suspect 8800GTXs will be in production for at least another six months, and even then, who knows what PCI Express 2.0 will bring. Maybe just modified 8800s, with better hardware video acceleration.

On the other hand, I've tried the "buy now upgrade later" route, and it's never satisfying. Buy the best you can afford now, and consider a complete upgrade in 12-18 months, or whenever you can afford it again.

If you can't afford SLI all at once, then it's not really for you.

Sayguh · Post by **Sayguh** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:56 am

Yeah, I've started to hear that I need to either go SLI from the beginning or not at all. So I think I decided if I don't have the money for SLI to cut back and get 2 gigs of ram, not 4. Since 2 gigs is enough for now. And in a few months buy ram. Cause RAM isn't going to ever be dicontinued

Post by **CA_Steve** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:20 pm

Max Slowik wrote:
NO. THERE ARE NO GAMES. WAIT FOR GEFORCE 9 AND
Are you thirteen, andaca? The 8800GTX is like, eight times more powerful than the 8600GT. He wants a gaming computer now. Not in a year.

civil responses, please.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:55 am

CA_Steve wrote:
Max Slowik wrote:
NO. THERE ARE NO GAMES. WAIT FOR GEFORCE 9 AND
Are you thirteen, andaca? The 8800GTX is like, eight times more powerful than the 8600GT. He wants a gaming computer now. Not in a year.
civil responses, please.

I would say, "Why?", but then I have to go back to the old group rule "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS"

cienislaw · Post by **cienislaw** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:11 am

Max Slowik wrote:He wants a gaming computer now. Not in a year.

no, he wanst a gaming computer in 4-5 months, not now. so situation o the market and prices can change, a lot.

Gaming Silent PC - Need to cut costs

Gaming Silent PC - Need to cut costs

Re: Gaming Silent PC - Need to cut costs

Re: Gaming Silent PC - Need to cut costs