Help find the ultimate silent PC - money is not an issue

[haugman]

Hi,
I am new in the forum and have been cruising around for quite a while trying to get some ideas to what parts I should buy for my new rig. A lot of good inputs, but there are so many good advices that in the end I get lost. I love data, but I majored in Economics and lack a good understanding about bits and bites, hz, overclocking etc.. And I am from Norway (don't know what that tells you..).

My goal is to build a silent pc that I can have for many years (+-5). I do not play games. I will use the PC for video editing, office work, surfing and watch TV on a projector.

When I say money is not an issue, it means that I will not let that stop you from giving me the best advices you got, just because you think it would be too expensive. I will mainly buy the parts in Norway, but if I have to I will order from the states as well (the dollar is cheap at the moment )

Oh, also my desk is too small for a 182 case, but the 150 will fit (52 cm height limit)

I hope this is a fun challenge for all you knowledgeable people out there, and if you know of a thread I have missed and should read, please guide me to it.

I am not in a hurry to buy (got a 15 month old son), but hopefully I can get everything ready for the dark months comming shortly.

best regards,
Haugman

[Bluefront]

Well look....the "ultimate silent PC" is not going to be much good for video editing. So you're going to have to make a few choices.....some of the low power VIA boards can be run fanless. A PICO PSU can be completely fanless. A laptop HD is almost silent, and also needs little airflow. But putting together such a system that can also be decent at video editing....tough, almost impossible.

So what you'll end up with is not going to be completely silent.....quiet hopefully. There are many ways to achieve a quiet system, but fewer to get completely silent. SPCR is a good place to start.....welcome.

[bonestonne]

hmm, starting all this now is an odd debate, as penryn isn't too far away.

i would definately wait just a little on a quad core, as dual core is just beginning to be optimized right now. the E6700 is a great processor, i guess the E6850 is top notch at the moment though, and could possibly give you absolutely anything you could want. problem with that, the E6850 and the Q6600 are about the same price, but the E6850 has a faster bus...it could be endlessly debated.

for RAM, it depends. if you can use a 64bit OS easily, i'd more than suggest it, get a least 4gb of RAM. if not, a max of 3 in a 32bit OS should be plenty.

the motherboard, well, you can throw it in a bunch of directions. the P975 chipset just came out, but i haven't seen anyone being too enthusiastic about it, also the G33 chipset is out, and you could also go for the classic P35.

i would not use Vista at all at this point. not even out of warning, but because it is severly dropping in popularity. there are Vista to XP switches available, and the sight of that means Vista is failing. i can find the article later and post it easily. it was from a blog at C-Net.

not playing games lets you get away with a few things, such as not requiring an insanely high end card, although the 8xxx line right now is still great. because of the video editing alone, i think an 8600 will be more than enough for the job. i've seen Mac Pros that run FCP 6 HD with a 7950 without any problems, but the Mac OS is much different than windows, so the 8600 would be just as good.

if you're going off a projector, i'd also suggest making sure you have S-Video, only because running some projectors of VGA is tricky, and adapters are hell.

economics, is an interesting major. gives you a whole new look at the world. personally, i would have went for ergonomics. its my favorite concept in life.

due to the recent change in scheduling at my school, i have something else to attend to, but i'll be back later with more to say...i'm ready to kill someone about this.

[Otto69]

Put $10,000 in $20's in a waterproof bag in the toilet tank in the bathroom, give me 6 months, and I'll deliver.

Which I suppose is my way of saying, don't ever make a price is no object post in a public forum, AND, note that quiet/silent depends heavily upon your envionmental noise factor.

[Heelo]

Few ideas:

(1) Use the Zalman TNN-300 case, which will eliminate the need for system fans:


(2) Wait until Q1 for Intel to release their QuadCore processors on 45nm technology. The price points will be attractive, and the future is multicore.

(3) You'll need a passively-cooled vid card, and I think the Gigabyte 8600GTS Silent is the fastest one available at the moment.

(4) The TNN-300 is supposed to be a real pain to mess with once assembled, so you might as we splurge for 4GB of ram just to be sure (as long as "money's not an option").

(5) Box and suspend your HDD(s) in the case.

[haugman]

Thanks for your help. Since I am buying for the future, I figured you guys would recomend a quad core. It is also likely that the types of SW I will run, probably will be written for Quad. Are there differences in stability from model to model on the quad cores?

for RAM, it depends. if you can use a 64bit OS easily, i'd more than suggest it, get a least 4gb of RAM. if not, a max of 3 in a 32bit OS should be plenty.

.

Are there any reason I should not be able to use a 64bit OS? I propably do not understand the complexity in 32 vs 64 bit OS.

Currently I run Vista Home Premium, but due to a Amd Athlon 2500+ processor I cannot run live TV and havent even tried to do video editing. I do however like the Media Center functionality of Vista and hoped I could use this in my new PC. This is a 32 bit, but I do not mind buying a 64 bit if that is smart.

About the Zalman case; how will this perform inside a desk? The PC will be located under the desk, on the right side, inside a dedicated PC "room". there is an opening by my legs, but it tends to get quite warm.

[haugman]

here is the shopping cart I will update based on inputs from you.

http://www.prisguide.no/vis_handlevogn. ... n_id=55780

hopefully you will understand it even though the information is in norwegian.

[protellect]

If you're interested in something pre-built, you might go just get a Mac Pro. Its a machine designed for video editing, and if you really want to, you can virtualize vista over the operating system.

You can get up too two quad-core Xeons, or just two dual core xeons, plenty of ram and hd space. They are fairly quiet, as well.

If you want something that is built-it yourself, you would certainly save a lot of money compared to a mac pro.

I'd recommend the following;

;fast intel dual or quad core with a third party zalman, zerotherm, or scythe heatsink. Minimum Intel Q6600 or E6750.

;A full sized intel motherboard with many extra pci-slots. You may consider a server board with dual CPU slots; Supermicro and Intel make good ones.

;3GB of RAM if its a 32-bit operating system, or 4GB+ if its a 64 bit OS.
Memory is so cheap, so why not. 32 bit operating systems may or may not address [use] more than 3GB, so don't bother. 64 bit operating systems don't have these restictions; look at your motherboards maximum settings.

; An array of hard drives, with a nice hardware raid card in RAID 0+1
Make sure to try and get a quiet brand; samsung or western digital. Seagates are great drives but some of them are not quiet, and I find hard drive noise one of the hardest things to tackle.

You might also consider keeping your system drive on a RAID-1, and putting all your programs on the 0+1. 250GB drives are 60$ or so, so, six of those would be inexpensive, and provide redundancy and performance in a

RAID1- 2x250GB - 250GB Space, mirrored.
RAID0+1 - 4x 250GB - 500GB Space, mirrored and striped

; Fanless 8600GT with Dual-DVI. Multiple monitors is nice. Fanless is nice noise-wise.

; Case is up in the air. A Antec P182 would be crowded but would easily fit all of the above. Those zalman cases are very nice, but expensive. Lian-Li is another excellent case company.

; High quality fans that fit the case you buy. Probably 120MM fans, but possibly 92MM or 80MM depending on case.

; Corsair or other high quality power supply, at a minimum of 500W.

[haugman]

A Mac is nice, but I would like to build it myself.

About video editing; this is only something I will do now and then (as a father with a video camera), so I propably won't mind a bit noise when I do that. I just wanted to mention it so that we make a rig that can handle it in a good way.

I have read about Raid, but do not know if I am tough enough to implement it on my own. I understand it is smart concerning back up, but will it help me get a "silent" pc?

Antec 182 is too tall for my space, so i will have to go for something else. Thought about 150, but it looks like they do not sell it anymore (in Norway).

dual DVI would be nice, but I must look for a minimum of one DVI and one S-Video for my projector.

Interesting thougt about a server board, I assume you think about the dual CPU for the future?

[haugman]

Put $10,000 in $20's in a waterproof bag in the toilet tank in the bathroom, give me 6 months, and I'll deliver.

Which I suppose is my way of saying, don't ever make a price is no object post in a public forum, AND, note that quiet/silent depends heavily upon your envionmental noise factor.

i see your point;.)
at the moment, my lcd screen makes a whining noice, so that will have to go. Today, my PC is in the living room, and it is too noisy to even have in standby mode when I wan't to read a book etc..
I hope to get a PC that can perform in the background and is quiet enough that I can accept it, as well as the wife. WAF is a good stretch, hence the "not an issue" point:-)

[protellect]

Haha.

Now we're getting somewhere.

If you just do a little video editing, and don't mind the waiting some when you do, then you can get away with far less of a powerful computer.

Since space is a concern, have you thought about a micro-atx computer case? Here is an example that I think is a nice looking design, the New Lian-Li PC-V350A

Combine that with a nice micro ATX, a fast dual core, 2GB memory, a quiet cooler, some nice low speed 120's [noctua or whatever] and perhaps a laptop hard drive + conversion kit, and I think that would be plenty sufficient and quiet for your needs.

Oh, and many 8600GT's have an s-video out, and are fanless; here is an example

[whiic]

I'd say, for 32-bit OS: 3GB of RAM because 4GB would be the maximum and majority of memory address space between 3.5GB and 4GB would be allocated to PCI, AGP, etc. devices. That is even if VGA card didn't steal system RAM, it still needs to be accessed and it steal address space.

For 64-bt OS, 4GB might be or might not be OK. If your system support allocation of PCI, AGP, etc. address space from that 3.5~4GB area to somewhere way beyond 100GB (because there's a LOT of address space with 64-bits), then 4GB will be OK. If not, you'll still lose half a gigabyte!

I'd favour 3GB for 32bit and 5 to 8GB for 64-bit OS. If you lose addressable capacity between 3.5 and 4 GB on a system with 8GB of RAM, it's not a big deal as you knew you couldn't prevent it unless you would have satisfied with 3GB. Upgrading to 8GB (adding 5GB more to 3GB) and losing 0.5GB is just 10%. But if you buy a an extra 1GB stick and lose whole 25% to 75% of capacity of that stick trying to upgrade from 3GB to 4GB, I believe you'd be more pissed off. I would.

But again, if it can be remapped, then 4GB is perfectly OK for 64-bit OS. I believe it's a motherboard feature so check you motherboard candidates well.

_____________


About processors: I'd go for Q6600 G0. It's relatively cheap, has incredible raw processor power and is quite overclockable. Someone recommended 6850. Why? Can't you buy something with low FSB in relation to clock freq (meaning high multipliers) for less price and overclock to match or exceed specs of E6850? Some low-end dual-cores do have some of the cache masked off. If 800 MHz can't be pushed to meet with 1333 MHz, then at least 1066 MHz can. For example E6700 @2.67GHz @1066MHz -> 3.34GHz @1333MHz (way better than 3.0GHz @1333MHz). (E6700 ain't cheap though. It may cost more than E6850. My point just was, the faster the FSB, the crappier the CPU, even though manufacturer would like you to believe otherwise.)

Why buy E6850 (3 GHz) when you can buy a Q6600 G0 at the same price and OC it to 3.2 GHz quite easily? When running Q6600 at 3.2 GHz it'd have slightly more performance running single or two threaded software, but with 4 threads it'd be a real killer, leaving E6850 far behind.

Sure, there's only one bad thing: heat. My system is quiet but it's not inaudible. I don't blame the CPU though as I need case airflow to cool RAM sticks, VRMs, northbridge, HDD and PSU isn't fanless either.

If you go for something like E6850, that problem is still far from solved. That's far from optimal solution for completely passive cooling with not case airflow.

[djkest]

Steel cases tend to be just a little quieter than aluminum ones. Cases designed to use only 120mm fans will be quieter in general than ones that use 92mm or 80mm fans. I'm partial to Silverstone. Here's a decent one that would fit your needs:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811163095

Powerful components, but not a huge case, and quiet may be a little tough to pull off.

I myself just installed an Arctic cooling Accelero S1 on my video card, and it was amazing how well it works for being fanless. It doesn't work on the very newest cards however.

Look for a motherboard with a powerful fanless cooling solution, that is going to be very important. Gigabyte has some new motherboards that are supposed to run very cool and use Core 2 duo processors.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128050

When picking out PC6400 DDR2 for your machine, carefully pay attention to the timings. I have 5-5-5-12-2T ram and I lose a lot of speed by not having 4-4-4-12 ram.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148144

Thermalright ultra 120 and Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B are both excellent choices for CPU coolers.

If you calculate how much power your system will use at full bore, choose a power supply rated at nearly double that. 80+ efficient power supplies will create less heat and save you a little money on utilities as well. The Corsair HX-620 is a good power supply, made by seasonic and the fan stays very slow until over 300W of load.

I'd use either Yate-Loon, Nexus, Noctua, Scythe S-flex, or Antec Tricool fans for a quiet system. Most cases will not come with quiet fans.

You may know all this already, but I hope it helps if you don't.

[haugman]

I believe I will go for a Quad core and 32 bit OS. From what I have been reading, this seems to be a good combination for the future, as well as giving me an option to use "old" programs and drivers.

About RAM, I do not understand the difference between DDR2 and DDR3, nor the timing issue.

When picking out PC6400 DDR2 for your machine, carefully pay attention to the timings. I have 5-5-5-12-2T ram and I lose a lot of speed by not having 4-4-4-12 ram.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148144
.

I understand there is good sense in what you are writing, but I do not understand much of it. What would be the best RAM to choose for the Q6600 GO processor?

About case: I too have heard that steel is sturdier and thus creates less resonance than aluminum. I will propably go for a midi ATX case, that has IO outputs in the front. Max height is 52 cm. I could have chosen a mini ATX, but I believe this will reduce my options on Mobo and also make it harder for me to build and handle airflow. or??

Djkest, how do I calculate my system load at full bore? any good articles I should read? How should I understand your tip: do you recomend the Corsair HX-620 if my full bore watt is 350 w? What if my full bore watt is 250, or 400. any suggestions?

[haugman]

[quote="protellect"]
Combine that with a nice micro ATX, a fast dual core, 2GB memory, a quiet cooler, some nice low speed 120's [noctua or whatever] and perhaps a laptop hard drive + conversion kit, and I think that would be plenty sufficient and quiet for your needs.
[quote]

Thanks, I have thougt about a Micro ATX, but I would prefer a Midi ATX. Still, the idea of using a laptop hard drive is good. How would that work if I need several disks? is it a lot of hassel with the conversion kit etc..? I was thinking about having a "small" dedicated OS disk, and a large disk for pictures, movies etc.. Do you have any suggestion about how I could get a good set up, using perhaps laptop hard drives?

[bonestonne]

unless you fully need full ATX, its really not something you should run out and buy, larger towers can have more dead spots with hot air, so the silence that could potentially be reached would then be nulled by the heat not even leaving the case.

my main stand against 2.5" HDDs is that they break very easily, and they get hot, and when not efficiently cooled, the overheat, and can die.

by reducing options on the motherboard what to do you mean? sure i've never seen a mATX board that supports SLi, but i don't think its actually necessary for you, so whats the point of it?

you can get a Corsair HX-520...its a good happy-medium.

2.5" SATA adapters to normal SATA adapters are not expensive, the only difference is the size of the plugs. easily done.

[Lensman]

I know I'm coming in late to the game, but wanted to suggest the following:
1. Decide how quiet you want your PC. If you want complete silence, you're in a completely different design league from "very quiet". How much ambient noise is there in your home? Are you in the city or the country? How quiet can things be with a 15 month old in the house?
2. If you just want quiet and not silent, have you seen an Antec Solo, Antec Sonata? You should also consider the upcoming mini p182.
3. BTW, if you are going to be buying the Zalman totally silent case, I don't think you'll be needed the extra fans. In fact, you have to be very careful to match your components to the TDP of the passive cooling of the case. You can't get a Q6600 and you won't need any special version of the 8600GT since you'll be using the special heatpipe attachments for the video card that comes with the Zalman. Anyway, think carefully about whether you want to devote yourself to the Zalman design.
4. Don't be afraid of Vista 64. I think Vista is a pain in the ass. But if you're going to put up with the pain of Vista, I'd go for Vista 64 if you're going to do video editing because you'll want 4GB of memory. If you're not going to overclock, you can save some money and buy 4x1GB sticks - aka 2x 2x1GB kits.

[ryboto]

I wouldn't recommend the Ultra 120-extreme if you want "silence". The HR-01 Plus has the same number of heatpipes with fin spacing better suited for low airflow.

[oakdad]

Speeking of the HR-01 Plus does that also come with this bolt through kit peeps are talking about or is that sold seperately?

[haugman]

I know I'm coming in late to the game, but wanted to suggest the following:
1. Decide how quiet you want your PC. If you want complete silence, you're in a completely different design league from "very quiet". How much ambient noise is there in your home? Are you in the city or the country? How quiet can things be with a 15 month old in the house?
2. If you just want quiet and not silent, have you seen an Antec Solo, Antec Sonata? You should also consider the upcoming mini p182.
3. BTW, if you are going to be buying the Zalman totally silent case, I don't think you'll be needed the extra fans. In fact, you have to be very careful to match your components to the TDP of the passive cooling of the case. You can't get a Q6600 and you won't need any special version of the 8600GT since you'll be using the special heatpipe attachments for the video card that comes with the Zalman. Anyway, think carefully about whether you want to devote yourself to the Zalman design.
4. Don't be afraid of Vista 64. I think Vista is a pain in the ass. But if you're going to put up with the pain of Vista, I'd go for Vista 64 if you're going to do video editing because you'll want 4GB of memory. If you're not going to overclock, you can save some money and buy 4x1GB sticks - aka 2x 2x1GB kits.

Thanks for the good questions!
I understand now that I am propably looking for a very quite PC, not a silent one.
1. I live in the woods, so I am not bothered with noice from the outsice. My son sleeps when I use the PC, so my environment is quiet.
2. I read about the 150 and thougt that would be perfect, but now I can't find it in the stores anymore. The mini p182 looks to be a good replacer for that.
3. I really do not know about the Zalman case, it was just recomended in this forum so I put it up as a suggestion. If I can't run the Q6600 I do not know if it is the right one for me.
4. What about the issues with drivers not upgraded to run on Vista 64? Do you think that is an issue to worry about?

Again, thanks for the good advice!

[ACook]

I think they're renaming the p150, there's only a few shops here that still list it. More are showing the solo, which is the p150 but black and without the psu. shame, quite like my p150.
But, all hope is not lost: Antec Sonata Designer - ignore the sonata brand, it looks exactly like a p150, slightly pimped with some highlighting, Icelandic Blue/Fiji Orange/Amazon Green/Champagne Pink/Arctic White your choice.. white is same as p150.

price looks the same as the p150 was. no id how good the psu is, suppose spcr could give the whole box a review now the original is being phased out.

there's no reason to go for vista or 64bit. unless you really like your current vista. unsure how vista mce compares to xp mce.

[Lensman]

there's no reason to go for vista or 64bit. unless you really like your current vista. unsure how vista mce compares to xp mce.

Talk to people who do video editing if you want to find out how much memory you need - particularly those editing HD video.

I'm not saying you need 4GB. 2GB will be fine. I'm saying that one of these days you may find yourself needing 4GB and then you'll be trying to figure out exactly how much addressable space there is in your setup with your video card.

Anyway, if you do decide you need 4GB, I'd recommend Vista 64 over XP x64 edition. In fact, I'd recommend regular XP over XP x64.

The 64-bit driver situation is ok for all new hardware, it's really only the legacy hardware where you have to worry.

BTW, you should know that I am biased towards avoiding an OS upgrade like the plague.

[Lensman]

BTW, if you are considering a media center PC, start reading the AVS forum on Home Theater PCs.

[haugman]

thank you for all your advice.
Here is the list I have gathered. I am really unsure about the mobo and the ram. Will this fit? Also, the cpu cooler must fit the mobo. I wanted to go for a GB .. DS4 but I read that it would not fit with your recomended cooler.

Please take a look and give me some final feedback.

Mobo: Abit IP35 Pro
Fan: Akasa Amber AK-183-L2B
Case: Antec SOLO
PSU: Corsair HX520W
RAM: Corsair TWIN2X DDR2 4096MB (2x2048MB)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Video: MSI GeForce 8600 GTS Heatpipe
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12F
Disk: Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB S-ATA

PS. I will not play games, but want a PC that will last the next 4(?) years, and are able to upgrade during the time.

br
Mikkel

[jaganath]

Fan: Akasa Amber AK-183-L2B

in my experience these are not very good. Nexus,Yate Loon,Noctua,Scythe S-Flex all recommended.

[Arvo]

If you're into video editing (and maybe not only mpeg2/4, but some less compressed format), then I'd recommend at least two hard drives. Yes, it makes noise go somewhat up, but you can distribute HDD activity across two drives and this makes your work smoother. I'd buy 2x320GB drives (just my opinion - they have 2 platters versus 3 platters in 500GB model, should be result in somewhat cooler and less resonating device).

Samsung has new F1 series HDDs with 333GB platters - has anyone seen these on sale or even tested them - they should be very fast ones?

My friend bought some Akasa fans (they were amber colored, but I don't know exact model) - they started whine with his fan control - he bought Nexus fans and throw Akasas away.

Why not Gigabyte D3S mobo? You can choose one of GA-P35-D3S* motherboards with needed configuration (FireWire or smtg). Although I was Abit supporter for many years, starting with their AB9 they have had many problems with BIOSes, RAM support etc. Maybe current version of IP35Pro is good board - but initial reviews showed problems with some RAM brands, possibly BIOS related.

[lm]

Why not a radeon hd2600 instead of the nvidia?

[bonestonne]

what the dickens are you doing with an akasa lighted fan? a solo has no window [and if you put one in, you defeat the purpose of the case]. might as well just order another noctua/s-flex/nexus/yate loon instead. lighted fans are generally less than quiet, and when you undervolt them its very obvious.

the cooler isnt bad though, but its a bit pricey for its performance.

however even for a quad core, 520W is high for what you've got in there. maybe the VX430? there just isn't much there to power/justify 520W.

[haugman]

Hi again,
first, about the amber fan - I just read that it was good, didn't even know it was with a light. I looks as I should change it anyways.

Arvo: I like the idea about 2 smaller drives. I was planning on another drive, but didn't know that the 500 had 3 plates. About the mobo, I think I read that the cooler didn't fit on the GB board unless you used a dremmel drill! Do you know otherwise?

here are some reviews on the IP35

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainbo ... 5-pro.html

http://techreport.com/articles.x/12747/1

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php? ... herboard/1


IM: Why not a radeon hd2600 instead of the nvidia? Are you talking about the graphics card? I do not understand what you mean?

Bonestone: please recommend the best cooler you know, I do not mind if it is $50 difference etc.. About the PSU. I only find the vx450 but I assume it is as good and silent as the other?

What about the ram? Do you recommend something different, or does it look good?

[Arvo]

About Gigabyte and Noctua NH-U12F compatibility: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=comp ... 12f&lng=en - seems that all GA-P35-DS3 boards are supported.

RAM is OK.

Video: NVidia 8600GTS is faster than ATI Radeon HD2600XT, thereby I can't recommend ATI over NVidia. But if you're interested in full HDMI output (with audio!), then ATI cards have better support for this.

Thanks for IP35 reviews! Seems that Abit is coming back Well, I won't oppose to Abit IP35 any more.