Upper Midrange Gaming-Rig

[Gundy]

Hello everyone,

Although this is my first post on this forum, I have been dwelling around this great site and forum for months now.
The old rig is 4-5 years old now and a replacement is due this mid November.

Here is a fairly common shopping cart, but nothing is decided yet and I am open to your ideas:

1. Antec Solo
2. Corsair HX520
3. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
4. Intel Core 2 Duo E4400
5. Scythe Ninja Rev. B
5. Some 2x1024MB DDR2 Kit
6. 1x Nexus 92mm Intake
7. Nvidia 8800GTS 320MB or similar
8. Samsung T166 500GB (from current rig)

Questions / issues I have with this list:
A. The only reason not listing an AMD platform is because I have a hard time finding a "makes sense" mobo for AMD CPUs. On the CPU side my impression is that AMD gives me better value.

B. Finding the right GPU seems to be quite problematic. One could go for ATI 2900 pro, Nvidia 8800GTS 320MB or maybe Nvidia 8800GT (with a glance at the mid November deadline). RV670 most probably will not make the deadline. My impression is that the GTS is the only GPU that would not need an after market cooler, as the ATI runs hotter and the GT might just be a single slot.

Thanks for reading. I highly appreciate your input!

Best regards,
Gundy

[jackylman]

Given the small price difference, I would recommend the E4500 over the E4400 (especially if you're going to OC). The higher multiplier makes OC'ing a little easier and you'll idle at a lower speed than you would have with the 4400.

It would be interesting to look at the AMD route as well. What do you require from a mobo and why do none of the current crop suit you? Don't be afraid to buy a board just because it has integrated graphics. You can always use your own.

[Gundy]

Thanks for the reply jackylman! I will consider the E4500 then.

The mobo has to fit two main requirements. First be reliable and second have very good layout, one that saves me from cable clutter.

- Min. 6 x USB 2.0
- 1x GBit LAN
- Integrated Audio
- Min. 4 x SATA
- 1x PATA
- 1x PCI usable with 4 slots between the PCI-E 16x slot
- supporting the Ninja in an Antec Solo

I do not need SLI/Crossfire, integrated GFX, hot NBs, fancy looks, heat pipes, firewire, eSATA or raid.

I guess these are quite moderate requirements. Choosing the Gigabyte was easy since it is being regarded as the perfect Intel mobo around these forums.
And the amount of available AM2 mobo models is sheer mind blowing. Is there a general recommendation for the chipset used?

Best regards,
Gundy

[scandium]

A.On the CPU side my impression is that AMD gives me better value.

Depends. On the upper end of the processing ladder Intel wins by default, simply because AMD has yet to offer anything that competes. On the lower tiers, it depends, in part, on whether or not you're willing to overclock. If you are, then an E2160 can be had for under $80 CDN and people seem to be having little trouble pushing it past 3.0 GHz on air. If you're not into OC'ing then the price/performance ratio is pretty even, but AMD boards are much cheaper at any given level of features.

So to me it boils down to this: if you're not looking at quad core, and aren't planning on OC'ing, save yourself some money and go AMD. Otherwise, go Intel.

[Felger Carbon]

The mobo has to fit two main requirements. First be reliable and second have very good layout, one that saves me from cable clutter.

The Abit AN-M2 and AN-M2HD has the best layout WRT cable-clutter that I've ever seen on a mobo. All connections are on the mobo's edge, and in logical locations on the edge. This is a 9.6" x 9.6" uATX mobo, Nvidia 7025 or 7050-based. 7050 is for TV watching using the PC.

edit: "locations", not "connections" - used wrong word

[Gundy]

Thanks for your input!

So to me it boils down to this: if you're not looking at quad core, and aren't planning on OC'ing, save yourself some money and go AMD. Otherwise, go Intel.

I am not looking at quad core and I was not looking at OC'ing, although now that you mention it, I might reconsider. Can this OC be done by only raising the multiplier, or is a FSB raise involved? Does one have to shop for better quality RAM modules (better than PC2-6400)?

The Abit AN-M2 and AN-M2HD has the best layout WRT cable-clutter that I've ever seen on a mobo. All connections are on the mobo's edge, and in logical locations on the edge. This is a 9.6" x 9.6" uATX mobo, Nvidia 7025 or 7050-based. 7050 is for TV watching using the PC.

Indeed, very nice layout! Too bad these puppies are mATX. If one would install a GPU with HR-03 there might not be enough room for any expansion cards.
Somehow I missed looking at Abit mobos completely. Looking at them now, the Abit AN52 seems to have a decent layout.

So far I have looked at ASUS, Gigabyte, Biostar, ASrock, MSI, DFI and Abit AM2 motherboards that do not make me pay for features I do not need. A lot of them are mATX or have a major design flaw, like the ATX connector in the middle of the board.

[scandium]

Tom's Hardware did an article on it fairly recently http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/12/ ... index.html

They had the E2160 running stable @ 3.2 GHz on air by raising the FSB to 335 MHz. They used DDR2-800 but ran it at DDR2-880. Board they used was the popular Gigabyte P35-DS3P. Since the E2160 uses an 800 MHz FSB, if you're using DDR2-800 you could settle for a slightly lower OC and still run the RAM within spec.

[CA_Steve]

Your proposed build is about the same as what I proposed to a friend.

One upgrade is go to the e6550. The added cache will be useful in the long run.

Also, NVidia g92 chips will be on cards later this month or Nov. They are unlocking more pipes in the 8800GTS as part of it. I still like the 8800GTS 320MB if you have a 1600x 1200 or less resolution monitor.

[Gundy]

One upgrade is go to the e6550. The added cache will be useful in the long run.

Thanks for the suggestion, the added 40€ (compared to E4400) might just push me outside my set limit of 800€ total. But I will keep it in mind.

My monitor runs 1920x1200, but games are allowed to run lower res.

@scandium
This E2160 looks more and more interesting. Too bad that 3GHz is just not a guarantee.

On the overall GPU topic. What is the next big GPU if one would not go for the latest DX10 card from a silent point of view?

Best regards,
Gundy

[CA_Steve]

Another comment on cache - while 4MB improves performance a tad with the current crop of games, 1MB is a noticeable performance hit....there was a Core 2 Duo comparison review done somewhere in the last 30 days.....comparing the e21XX to e4XXX to e6XXX at same clock/fsb. Wish I could remember where.

[Tommy Jefferson]

The Abit AN-M2 and AN-M2HD has the best layout WRT cable-clutter that I've ever seen on a mobo. All connections are on the mobo's edge, and in logical locations on the edge. This is a 9.6" x 9.6" uATX mobo, Nvidia 7025 or 7050-based. 7050 is for TV watching using the PC.

It's weird how people on Newegg have problems with these boards, but still give them a 4 or 5 star rating.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... pk=AN-M2HD

[Gundy]

Once more I'd like to thank you for all your input. Here is an Update of what I am currently looking at:

- Antec Solo
- Corsair HX520
- Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3
- 2x MDT 2048MB (2x1024MB) Kit DDR2-800 CL5
- Intel E2180 (2x2GHz) M0 Stepping
- Scythe Ninja Rev. B
- Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB (bought already)
- Samsung SH-S203B black
- Nexus 92mm Intake
- Nvidia 8800 GT

As you can see, I am going the recommended E21x0 route. But instead of going for the E2160 I choose the E2180. Reasons for this are a) it has a higher multiplier making it less likely to hit the "FSB wall" and b) is only available with M0 stepping so I know what I get.


Here is a list of possible add-ons / modifications I am looking in to:
- Thermalright HR-03 GT (if stock fan is noticeable when idle / too hot)
- Thermalright LGA755 Bolt-Thru Kit (if Ninja mounting gives me trouble)
- Nexus 92mm (2. intake set back from the front with duct to cool GPU)
- Scythe Kama PWM 120mm (if CPU fan needed and stock Ninja fan no good)
- Nexus 120mm rear (if stock Solo rear fan is no good)
- Some fan controller, i.e. Zalman Fanmate 2 or self build

Would you advise to go with the main list and only add the add-ons / mods if I feel the need, or do you feel one or multiple add-ons are mandatory and should be bought right away?

The goal is a system that I can not hear when sitting idle under my table. As soon as I start gaming (rare at the moment) I do not mind some noise.

Best regards,
Gundy

[Gundy]

Hello fellas,

The time to buy this thing is coming up, any ideas on the question of "additions", or ideas in general? I really do appreciate your input.

Thanks,
Gundy

[CA_Steve]

I just shipped a build list for a friend's PC yesterday. Here's the differences:

-e6550 for cache
-VX450 (no need for the 520, although modular is nice)
-Thermalright Ultima 90 instead of Ninja
-Gigabyte DS3L - don't need raid.
-2 x 1048MB DDR800 CL4 memory - very cheap now. I'll see how well memory usage is with gaming and Vista Home. If he needs more, he'll buy two more 1GB sticks.
- Going to try out the Scythe Slip-stream 800rpm 120mm fans for the CPU and case rear, plus the 1000rpm 100mm Scythe SY1025SL12L for case front HDD cooling. Might add a fan-mate 2 to slow the front fan down a tad.

[Wibla]

Often overlooked, but you could check ebay for a used E6600?

[djkest]

I just shipped a build list for a friend's PC yesterday. Here's the differences:
-Thermalright Ultima 90 instead of Ninja

Why, was the ninja too big to fit? Or too much cooling for a non-overclock build?

[CA_Steve]

Why, was the ninja too big to fit? Or too much cooling for a non-overclock build?

Planning to overclock a bit (within stock core voltage).

Ninja fits in the Solo - I have one. Not impressed by the socket 775 mounting scheme. While I never had any big issues with it and temps are ok, I think it's a case by case issue (no pun intended).

From the various overclocking reviews I've seen, the Ultima 90 is in the same performance league as the Ninja and has fewer mounting issues.

Also, holding off on this order for a few days - hoping the Penryn introduction on Monday provides either a price drop for current sku's or maybe a better solution in the $160-$170 range that the e6550 is in now.

[Gundy]

By the way, does anyone of you know the difference of the GA-P35-DS3 Rev 1 to the Rev 2? I could only see the ATX bracket having 6 USB ports instead of 4?
It seems that Rev 2 is hardly available yet and its about 10€ more than the Rev 1 for now. If it is just being the USB ports, I can not justify it.

Regards,
Gundy

[leftheaded]

Here is an Update of what I am currently looking at:
- 2x MDT 2048MB (2x1024MB) Kit DDR2-800 CL5

i'm not sure how much that RAM is, but i'd definitely get in on the Crucial rebate at newegg that ends tomorrow.

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
BL2KIT12864AA804
$50 after rebate

[Gundy]

Here is an Update of what I am currently looking at:
- 2x MDT 2048MB (2x1024MB) Kit DDR2-800 CL5

i'm not sure how much that RAM is, but i'd definitely get in on the Crucial rebate at newegg that ends tomorrow.

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
BL2KIT12864AA804
$50 after rebate

That really sounds very good, unfortunately I am sitting in Germany... But thanks

Best regards,
Nils