Quiet Linux-based fileserver (advice needed)

[CobraX]

Hello folks,


I'm planning on assembling a linux fileserver. At first I wanted to use my old Celeron 1,7 Ghz S478 (Willamette core) but since I didn't find any decent motherboards anymore (at least 6x SATA300) I discarded that idea (I don't like pci card sata solutions).

The primary goal of the PC is fileserving so that my windows laptop, the windows pc of my parents and my mac mini can dump their files & backups on it. I'll probably play with apache, mysql and php too on this machine.

I'm used to the silence of my mac mini and my laptop so I want a really quiet yet stable fileserver. There are some parts that I can re-use from my current desktop (which is going to my parents, at least the "internals").

Re-usable parts:

- Antec P182
- Corsair HX520W
- WD Raptor 74 GB, 16MB, 10.000 RPM (I know you guys will probably say it's noisy but it doesn't bother me unlike airflow noise which is in my opinion more annoying).

I've been looking around on the internet and I've decided that I want an Intel based setup with an X3100 onboard because of their great linux support. Here's what I've found so far:

1) CPU: I've decided I'm going for an Intel Core 2 Duo E2160 since the price difference with the E2140 is minimal.

2) Memory: This really doesn't have to be high-end for me. Just a decent brand is fine with me. I do want 2x 1GB DDR2 SDRAM PC2-5300 because ram is so cheap nowadays.

I'm guessing these options are fine?

- Kingston 2x1GB DDR2 667Mhz PC2-5300 (KVR667D2N5K2/2G)
- Corsair 2x 1GB DR2 SDRAM PC2-5300 (VS2GBKIT667D2)

Basic rule for me here is: the cheaper, the better without compromising the quality (not speed) of the memory!

3) CPU Cooler: I'm thinking on using a Scythe Ninja PLUS Rev. B. I'm using this one in my current desktop and it can passively cool my A64 3000+ S939 (Winchester, 65W). I'm hoping it can do the same for the E2160. I was also thinking about the Scythe Ninja Mini in case I'd go with an micro ATX motherboard (I'm scared the heavier Ninja PLUS will break down a micro ATX motherboard).

4) Motherboard: This is really the hardest part for me. Things I really want here are:

- at least 6x SATA300
- fully passively cooled
- x3100
- 4 memory slots

So far I came up with 2 chipsets: Intel Q35 and Intel G33. I still don't see the big difference between them except for the fact that the Q35 chipset comes with vPro and is for businesses (which I don't really get). It is possible that I'll use this setup as a desktop (for gaming) in the future but for now I'm planning on using it as a linux fileserver.

The second question is: which brand? Asus, Gigabyte or Intel? One would say an Intel board would be the most stable, but Gigabyte uses better capacitors with their Ultra Durable2 technology (or is this just marketing crap and do Asus and Intel use the same capacitors?). A few options:

- Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R -> too bad it has no firewire, but 8x SATA300 is nice!
- Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R -> has FireWire but only 6x SATA300.
- Asus P5E-VM DO.
- Various Intel boards: Intel DQ35JO, Intel DQ35MP, Intel DG33TL, Intel DG33BU, Intel DG33FB.

At this very moment my vote goes to the Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R. Will the Scythe Ninja PLUS Rev. B fit onto this motherboard? Also when you compare the heatsink on the northbridge (or is it on the southbridge? :p) on the previously mentioned motherboards you can see that the Asus motherboard has a small heatsink compared to the other brands/motherboards. Is this safe enough to passively cool the X3100?

5) Hard Disks: This one seems pretty easy for me. I've read on storagereview that the Western Digital Caviar SE16 SATA300 16 MB 7200 RPM 500 GB is the best when you keep in mind the noise/performance ratio. This will be my "data HD". As for my "boot HD" I'll use my old WD Raptor SATA150 16 MB 10000 RPM 74 GB hard disk.

This brings us to the final point i.e. the casefans.

6) Casefans: I've read the P182 review on silentpcreview and found it to be pretty useful, but I still have some questions. I'm not so satisfied with the default casefans. They are a bit too loud (this could be because the case is sitting on a table right now and not somewhere on the ground). At this moment I have connected all 3 fans that came with the case. I removed the one in lower chamber and put it behind the drive cage in the upper chamber. I've read on spcr that you could cool the lower chamber without an extra fan if you only have 2 HDs in there. Well at this moment there are 2 HDs in there but it's really 1 big cable mess (I'll have to figure out a way to solve that problem and try different and/or better cable routings). This gives idle drive temperatures of 42-43°C. I've never seen higher temps than 48°C (load) so far. I'll try to route the cables better so I'll probably gain a °C or 2 by doing that. I also read that it could be sufficient to use only the back fan in the upper chamber (so not turning on the one pointing to the roof of the case). I was thinking about putting 1 or 2 120mm casefans in my Antec P182 i.e. one at the top (back) of the upper chamber and one (if necessary) in the lower chamber to cool down the HDs. The casefan I had in mind to do this, is the Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D (800 RPM 33.5CFM / 8.7dBA / DC12V / 0.10A). Will this give enough airflow? And would the solution be more quiet than the default antec P182 casefans? Also are the 2 120mm fans in the upper chamber easy to replace since they have switches on the back of the case?


I know these are many questions but I really want a quiet, yet reliable server. My HDs can't crash because they're overheated or something. It's a fileserver remember. Oh by the way I'm planning on using Debian as the OS.

Feel free to comment if you want. Any advice is welcome.


Thanks in advance,

CobraX

[Aard]

Basic rule for me here is: the cheaper, the better without compromising the quality (not speed) of the memory!

I've heard good things about Adata and at least where I am they are usually on the cheaper end of things, although ram quality is somewhat hard to define. Try looking at newegg ratings, the large sample size should help weed out bad batches.

The second question is: which brand? Asus, Gigabyte or Intel? One would say an Intel board would be the most stable, but Gigabyte uses better capacitors with their Ultra Durable2 technology (or is this just marketing crap and do Asus and Intel use the same capacitors?).

All three are good brands in my experience, Intel tends to be expensive however.

Gigabyte seems to be the only one with all solid caps (solid caps are the small silver ones with coloured semi-circle on top) these caps won't have the same issues as electrolytic caps have had in the past. Gigabyte also claims that their solid caps are better, whether that is true or not is abother matter...

Other than that you should consider the ethernet chip on each board as Linux suppport can be flakey on occassion, however neither of these chips seem to have any serious issues (the Realtek on the Gigabyte has an issue with Windows/Linux dual booting but you won't be doing that?). The other thing in regards to this is things like Jumbo Frames support.

Hard Disks: This one seems pretty easy for me. I've read on storagereview that the Western Digital Caviar SE16 SATA300 16 MB 7200 RPM 500 GB is the best when you keep in mind the noise/performance ratio.

My impression is that people here on the whole prefer the Samsung drives but WD doesn't have a bad showing either.

I'll try to route the cables better so I'll probably gain a °C or 2 by doing that.

You would be suprised I tidied everything up in my current computer and the ambient dropped by 5+ °C which probably translates almost 1:1 with my HD temperature.

[MikeC]

Considering what you're intending to use the system for -- "fileserving so that my windows laptop, the windows pc of my parents and my mac mini can dump their files & backups on it" -- your hardware choices are unbelievably overkill -- why 4 RAM slots?

You could use something as modest as a $70 Intel D201GLY2 with embedded C2 Solo Celeron and a <$50 4-port PCI SATA card to handle up to 6 drives and it would work perfectly fine via a 10/100 network switch or router. A single 2GB stick of RAM is <$50. The P182 & HX520W are overkill; you could just save them for another project... or maybe just use them.

There'd be power savings with the above setup, and it'd be very easy to run quiet -- at least until you add the HDDs!

My 2 cents in light of your stated application for the system.

[fri2219]

As of a couple of weeks ago, (release) kernel support is still iffy for both the controllers on the Intel Q35 and Intel G33 boards- I'd lean toward an older ICHR7 or ICH8 board. (NCQ - AHCI features are supported.)

Even with software RAID, you'll probably never even come close to maxing out the 2160, and could probably get by with using cpufreq to underclock it by quite a bit.

P.S. I think MikeC 's Little Valley/PCI board suggestion could be a good idea, but I'm not sure there is a $50 6 port solution solution out there, and the PCI bus could get overwhelmed fairly quickly with six drives. There are multiport, cheap, 4 port Silicon Image based PCI controllers (e.g. SIL-3114 SATA RAID) that work pretty well under Linux, but they tend to be limited to 150Mb/s ports and run into the limits of PCI as well.

A good place to start digging up supported chipsets is here: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html

[Cerb]

The PCI bus will have plenty of room, unless he's moving large HD movies over GbE. A hardware controller isn't a bad idea, but using PCI is not a problem. You can get in excess of 100MB/s over PCI, and 8+MB/s over a 100Mb/s LAN with a switch (IE, not a hub).

An old PIII with a new drive controller and NIC stuck in it would be a good, cheap. solution, as would the new itty Celeron board.

Any amount of RAM over 512MB is complete overkill, too. That said, DDR2 is cheap enough that 1-2GB is simply a must.

[Wibla]

Slow I/O is frustrating, even when its not really that critical...

I upgraded from a normal pci mobo to pci-x and went from 30-50MB/s read and 20-25MB/s write to 300MB/s read and 100MB/s write on a 3ware 9500S-12 card with 8x500GB..

[jackylman]

For memory, I'd use PC2-6400 if you're going to keep the system clock at 200MHz. There's a negligible price difference between 5300 and 6400 (with a Mail-in Rebate, 6400 can be cheaper) and then your memory will run at an even ratio (2:1) with the FSB.

EDIT: Something like this

[bobkoure]

I'm doing pretty much the same thing you are thinking of, but my server's in the basement so the emphasis was more on "low power" (it's on 24x7) than" low noise" - but it's pretty quiet.
I'm using a Via motherboard with Via C3 (old-style Celeron workalike), an Adaptec 5-SATA (4 port sata 1 - 150) a PCI gigabit NIC and 4 400G SATA drives, and an old Seasonic 300W PS.
I'm running Win2K server on it (had a license, and I need win32 to run a slimdevices server for my squeezeboxes around the house).
It's not terribly fast (major issue is the PCI bus bandwidth) - and it's only a 900MHz C3 - but the entire box uses around 70W. The processor doesn't even have a fan on it - just a small passive heatsink.
I use the box as a server for files, audio, web(get Apache for win32 rather than using Win2K's IIS if you go this route), email (I'm using macallan mail 'cause it's windows, otherwise it'd have been exim), PHP, postgres

If I were to do this again, I'd think about the Via C7-D, which is about twice as fast, and, more importantly, comes on motherboards with faster busses, which would make file access faster - but this one's fine.

BTW, I've used both recent WDs (500G), Seagates (400G), and Samsungs (250G and 500G). The 500G Samsungs (to my ear) are the quietest of the lot...

[CobraX]

Considering what you're intending to use the system for -- "fileserving so that my windows laptop, the windows pc of my parents and my mac mini can dump their files & backups on it" -- your hardware choices are unbelievably overkill -- why 4 RAM slots?

You could use something as modest as a $70 Intel D201GLY2 with embedded C2 Solo Celeron and a <$50 4-port PCI SATA card to handle up to 6 drives and it would work perfectly fine via a 10/100 network switch or router. A single 2GB stick of RAM is <$50. The P182 & HX520W are overkill; you could just save them for another project... or maybe just use them.

There'd be power savings with the above setup, and it'd be very easy to run quiet -- at least until you add the HDDs!

My 2 cents in light of your stated application for the system.

I really like your offer MikeC and I've thought about it a lot. But there are a few problems:

1) The system isn't flexible enough. Like I said in my post before: it could be that I would want to use my server as a gaming machine (dual boot) in the future. Not sure of that yet. Pure as a server the hardware is indeed way overkill. If the NIC would give me troubles in linux I can easily put in a PCI NIC.
2) The PCI bus speed really bothers me. Theoretically limited to 133 MB/s this could give slow speeds when 3 PCs (mac mini, pc parents & laptop) are uploading to / downloading from it.
3) I don't like the SiS NB, SB and video chipset. SiS has always been known by me as a low-end manufacturer.
4) I can't find the system here in Belgium (or in the Netherlands).

Still I think it's a cool system since it's fully passively cooled. I'll reconsider it again in the future when I'm definitely sure I want a server-only PC (without too much flexibility).

For memory, I'd use PC2-6400 if you're going to keep the system clock at 200MHz. There's a negligible price difference between 5300 and 6400 (with a Mail-in Rebate, 6400 can be cheaper) and then your memory will run at an even ratio (2:1) with the FSB.

EDIT: Something like this

Will do. Going for Kingston 2x1GB DDR2 800Mhz PC2-6400 (KVR800D2N5K2/2G).

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Now a few remarks. I've been researching and researching over the past few days and came to the conclusion that some parts I had in mind had to be replaced. Still have some questions about them...

1) Motherboard: I've finally chosen a motherboard. It's (normally) going to be the Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R.

2) CPU Cooler: I remember me being afraid when I was considering whether or not I would buy the Ninja PLUS for my A64 S939. I was afraid of its weight and that it would fall off and kill my system / devastate my videocard. Now I've noticed the pushpins that came with my Ninja PLUS that are used to attach the heatsink to a S775 motherboard and I'm really starting to get scared like shit. Those pushpins look like cheap ass playmobil toys.

So I've been researching again and the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme seems to be a winner with a great attachment system. I'm only wondering if it can be used with the system I have in mind. I have the Antec P182 so that shouldn't be a problem but I'm wondering if it will be compatible with my chosen motherboard (Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R). According to the Thermalright Motherboard Compatibility List it is compatible with the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R. This motherboard almost looks like and exact copy of the Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R except for the ports on the back (it really looks like an exact copy of Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Rev. 1.0). So I'm guessing it'll just work fine? Maybe anyone here already has this combination and can acknowledge it'll work?

3) Casefans: I've dumped the idea of getting Scythe S-FLEX casefans. Instead of them I'm going for SPCR's favourite i.e. the Nexus Real Silent 120mm casefan. One at the top back (for cooling the thermalright ultra 120 extreme), maybe one on the upper drive cage if things get too hot in the upper chamber. And finally maybe one in the lower drive cage if my HDDs are getting too hot.

[jeepescu]

I, like many other people on these boards, am using a ninja on my q6600 sitting on a P35-DS3R.
Pushpins are fine, I really do not understand why people make such a fuss out of it.
My CPU idles at 32C and tops at 44C when stressed (prime 95).

The whole assembly feels solid, I moved my P182 a couple of times around the house with no problems ( I ruptured a quad tendon and had to temporarily abandon the second floor of my house, moved computers and everything in my dining room downstairs)

IMHO, at CAD$ 36 (120mm fan included) , the ninja is an unbeatable product.

[CobraX]

I, like many other people on these boards, am using a ninja on my q6600 sitting on a P35-DS3R.
Pushpins are fine, I really do not understand why people make such a fuss out of it.
My CPU idles at 32C and tops at 44C when stressed (prime 95).

The whole assembly feels solid, I moved my P182 a couple of times around the house with no problems ( I ruptured a quad tendon and had to temporarily abandon the second floor of my house, moved computers and everything in my dining room downstairs)

IMHO, at CAD$ 36 (120mm fan included) , the ninja is an unbeatable product.

I've read too many threads on this forum. Almost nobody likes/thrusts the pushpin design. I don't have my new motherboard yet so I was just testing those pushpins without the ninja on it and not on a motherboard. To be honest it felt like some toy that was gonna "die" very soon. Now imagine 640gr just relying on 4 "toys". Not a lovely perspective.

I've also read that they CAN be the cause of not enough pressure on the cpu (or not equally divided). This gives a bad contact and higher temperatures but this wasn't the case with everybody.

[Cerb]

2) The PCI bus speed really bothers me. Theoretically limited to 133 MB/s this could give slow speeds when 3 PCs (mac mini, pc parents & laptop) are uploading to / downloading from it.

Are you on 100Mb, or GbE? If 100Mb, PCI has lots of room. Let's say the overhead is 100% (unrealistic): that's 20-25MB/s out of ~110. Use a switch for your network (a typical multi-port router counts), and your bottleneck is still...the network. Even with software RAID, and multiple users on the system, the LAN will be the biggest bottleneck (HDD performance can be an issue for software RAID 5, though).

If GbE, you want nothing on PCI, and then your drives and choice of RAID implementation can be your bottlenecks.

3) I don't like the SiS NB, SB and video chipset. SiS has always been known by me as a low-end manufacturer.

True, but it doesn't mean that it's bad. I don't know about the video, but otherwise, from the 735, and then the generation after that for Intel (can't recall the number), they've had solid chipsets, and good Linux support.

So I've been researching again and the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme seems to be a winner with a great attachment system. I'm only wondering if it can be used with the system I have in mind. I have the Antec P182 so that shouldn't be a problem but I'm wondering if it will be compatible with my chosen motherboard (Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R). According to the Thermalright Motherboard Compatibility List it is compatible with the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R. This motherboard almost looks like and exact copy of the Gigabyte GA-G33-DS3R except for the ports on the back (it really looks like an exact copy of Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Rev. 1.0). So I'm guessing it'll just work fine? Maybe anyone here already has this combination and can acknowledge it'll work?

I can't be 100% sure, but I'm going to say yes. By pics, it looks like the NB is in the same spot.

Think about the SI-128 SE, too.

3) Casefans: I've dumped the idea of getting Scythe S-FLEX casefans. Instead of them I'm going for SPCR's favourite i.e. the Nexus Real Silent 120mm casefan. One at the top back (for cooling the thermalright ultra 120 extreme), maybe one on the upper drive cage if things get too hot in the upper chamber. And finally maybe one in the lower drive cage if my HDDs are getting too hot.

Begin playing broken record...

[CobraX]

Are you on 100Mb, or GbE? If 100Mb, PCI has lots of room. Let's say the overhead is 100% (unrealistic): that's 20-25MB/s out of ~110. Use a switch for your network (a typical multi-port router counts), and your bottleneck is still...the network. Even with software RAID, and multiple users on the system, the LAN will be the biggest bottleneck (HDD performance can be an issue for software RAID 5, though).

If GbE, you want nothing on PCI, and then your drives and choice of RAID implementation can be your bottlenecks.

True, but I just don't like the idea. It's not very future proof. It's like putting a bmw engine in a cheap-ass lada if you get my point.

I can't be 100% sure, but I'm going to say yes. By pics, it looks like the NB is in the same spot.

Think about the SI-128 SE, too.

Now why would I think about that one? It only has 4 heatpipes on each side instead of 6 on the ultra 120 extreme. So it will probably not cool as good as the ultra 120 extreme. Only 2 things that come in mind are the price difference (no problem for me) and the weight difference. But weight shouldn't be a problem since the attachment system is very secure?

[Cerb]

I can't be 100% sure, but I'm going to say yes. By pics, it looks like the NB is in the same spot.

Think about the SI-128 SE, too.

Now why would I think about that one? It only has 4 heatpipes on each side instead of 6 on the ultra 120 extreme. So it will probably not cool as good as the ultra 120 extreme. Only 2 things that come in mind are the price difference (no problem for me) and the weight difference. But weight shouldn't be a problem since the attachment system is very secure?

The fan on it offers cooling of motherboard components, unlike a tower cooler. Performance differences will be irrelevant, given your CPU choice.

Tower coolers, though, make for easier ducting, if you think you may want to try that, at some point. The Ultra 120 Extreme would definitely cool even the fastest quad cores quietly, if you want to upgrade the CPU and shift it to other duty. The SI-128 SE might handle that as well, but good reviews of it are sparse, unlike the Ultra 120 Extreme. Being somewhat thin for a tower heatsink, the Ultra 120 may also make cable management and installation easier, giving you an inch or more on each side compared to the Ninja, and not basically covering up a 130mm sqaure over the CPU socket, like the SI-128 SE will.

[CobraX]

I can't be 100% sure, but I'm going to say yes. By pics, it looks like the NB is in the same spot.

Think about the SI-128 SE, too.

Now why would I think about that one? It only has 4 heatpipes on each side instead of 6 on the ultra 120 extreme. So it will probably not cool as good as the ultra 120 extreme. Only 2 things that come in mind are the price difference (no problem for me) and the weight difference. But weight shouldn't be a problem since the attachment system is very secure?

The fan on it offers cooling of motherboard components, unlike a tower cooler. Performance differences will be irrelevant, given your CPU choice.

Tower coolers, though, make for easier ducting, if you think you may want to try that, at some point. The Ultra 120 Extreme would definitely cool even the fastest quad cores quietly, if you want to upgrade the CPU and shift it to other duty. The SI-128 SE might handle that as well, but good reviews of it are sparse, unlike the Ultra 120 Extreme. Being somewhat thin for a tower heatsink, the Ultra 120 may also make cable management and installation easier, giving you an inch or more on each side compared to the Ninja, and not basically covering up a 130mm sqaure over the CPU socket, like the SI-128 SE will.

Thanks for your explanation. The ninja was indeed not the easiest heatsink to install on my A64 3000+ S939 and I used a decent amount of pressure to get it on but at least I know it's safely attached unlike which would be the case with a Ninja on S775.

The SI-128 also looks promising but I prefer the Ultra 120 Extreme because I'm planning on using it "passively" with only one 120mm nexus casefan right behind it (Antec P182 case, only using the fan at the back of the upper chamber). So in that way I think because of its "long horizontal" layout it's easier to cool than a SI-128. I think that's what you mean by "ducting" (guiding the air inside the case)?