$350 Xmas Build for Dad

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firefox90
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:38 pm

$350 Xmas Build for Dad

Post by firefox90 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:33 pm

I would like to build a new computer for my dad (and mom). He currently has a 1.3ghz P4 Dell with 256mb RAM (:evil:) Criteria:

-Fast (relatively speaking for general word/internet user)
-Quiet
-Cheap
-Small

I have somewhat of a challenge as I would like to fit this build in at around $350 or under and follow the above criteria.

I was looking at some different items. Let me know what you think.
Motherboard - Asus M2A-VM
Processor - AMD X2 4000+ 65w
Memory - 2x1GB G.Skill DDR2 800
Optical Drive - I am going to reuse the old one from the Dell he has. He doesn't use the optical much, so the sound level for this is not much of an issue.

Where I am stuck is on cases (+ PSU) and hard drives. Build difficulty isn't an issue with cases so don't worry about that.

Case - I was planning on going the Micro-ATX path, but the choices are problematic. The case needs to be semi-classy looking. I was looking at the Antec NSK1380. The reviews seem to be iffy. I was also looking at the SPCR basic case recs. and I am just torn in all directions. I would really prefer to stick to Micro-ATX, but it seems there are a lot of quality issues or other issues with them. What would you guys recommend. It can really be any form of M-ATX except media center form.

HD - Anything 80gb and SATA works, but I am aiming for quiet. I just am clueless here. I think Seagates are generally known to be quiet, but I may be wrong. Guidance would be appreciated.

I think that covers most of it. Let me know if I left anything out. Thanks in advance for the help as well as the awesome site.

LAThierry
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Location: Los Angeles, California

Post by LAThierry » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:00 pm

CPU: you might be able to shave a few $ off with an Athlon X2 3600 (65w) instead of a 4000

Motherboard: micro-ATX AM2 socket w/ integrated video seems like the way to go for your father, but there are cheaper brands than Asus out there. Look for a fanless one with decent heatsinks.

RAM: I know RAM is cheap these days, but does one really need 2GB of RAM to surf the Web or edit a .DOC? Even with Vista?

OS: Speaking of Vista, you did not mention which OS in your $350 budget? You mention Word, so if you go with Microsoft, that's a big chunk of your budget already gone. Ubuntu and the latest version of OpenOffice would be free and decent MS Office alternative.

Case: I've worked on three Antec NSK3300. It's a micro-ATX classy and classic, vertical case. Its latest incarnation, the NSK3480 reviewed here by SPCR has a bigger and more efficient PSU. With the rear fan on slow, it's not silent but quiet enough for most people (especially if the case won't rest on top of the desk)

Fanless Scythe Ninja or Mini-Ninja (Minja as some call it)

firefox90
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by firefox90 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:21 pm

CPU: I don't even see the 3600 at Newegg. At ZZF, it is $59 dollars. Might as well just go with the 4000.

Motherboard: I know there are some cheaper options than the Asus, but I used multiple Asus MBs in past builds and I have been very happy with them. I figured I'd stick with a bit of extra quality for a bit more money.

RAM: I figure $50 for 2 GBs is a good deal. I am seeing the decent 1 GB modules at around $30-40. You may be right. I will reevaluate once I get all of the other parts decided.

OS: I already have a spare copy of XP Pro lined up as well as office from another computer I recently changed up (to Linux). The software is all taken care of.

Case: That case looks great. Simplistic and classy. I'll add that to the list.

Heatsink: What is the noise level like with the stock coolers? Probably worth the upgrade since it will be one of the louder points in this system?

Thanks for the advice!

LAThierry
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:15 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Post by LAThierry » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:43 pm

I run fanless Ninjas on AMD Athlon X2 3600, 3800 and 4200 (all 65w version). I also run a fanless Ninja on an Intel Xeon X3220 but it's ducted to case's rear fan.

A search for "fanless ninja" on SPCR will show you many others have done it.

The newer Mini Ninja is even tested fanless on one page of its SPCR's review.

firefox90
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by firefox90 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:03 pm

I think I have settled on the NSK 3480 unless anyone else has a recommendation. Looks perfect. Great price too! $85 shipped from ZZF.

I have priced the case, CPU, motherboard, memory, and hard drive right around $300. Awesome! I feel like I am missing something at such a low price. I am reusing the optical, but that is about it. Software is covered. That is what would have ruined the build if I went with Microsoft stuff.

I am not sure whether to go with the Seagate or Western Digital HD. Both 80 gb, SATA, 7200 rpm.

Seagate
-5 year warranty
-I feel like Seagate is a bit more trustworthy. It feel like WD quality has dropped lately. Maybe I'm nuts. :roll:

Western Digital

Any opinions?

Also, what would be the best 120mm fan to replace the stock 120mm? Yate or Nexus (or other)? I am not to knowledgeable on fans.

adam_mccullough
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Location: UK

Post by adam_mccullough » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:16 pm

WD hard drives can be very quiet (if you get the right model... have a look in the "Silent Storage" forum for pointers) and have long had a good reputation for performance and reliability in general. A lot of serious IT people I've met swear by WD drives. I've got a really nice WD2500KS, and although the KS line has been replaced (with AAKS, I think?), the new ones are supposedly very similar.

More recently the favourites here at SPCR seem to be Samsung drives, although I'm not up to date on the specific reasons why.

The only common brand that I shun is Maxtor... I and my colleagues have had no end of trouble with them, mainly after discovering that they tend to be used in low-end NAS devices which consequently fall over with alarming frequency. I've also seen two cheap desktops recently that came with Maxtor drives and suffered HDD failures within a couple of months.

Seagate seem to be viewed less favourably since they acquired Maxtor, but I've no idea whether that's a case of a contagious PR problem or if their own branded drives have gotten worse - haven't used any Seagate drives recently. Personally, next time I need a drive I'll consider Samsung, but probably stick with WD if there's no compelling reason to change.

LAThierry
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:15 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Post by LAThierry » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:40 am

Unlike with the NSK3300, the 3480's upper compartment is very cramped due to the normal-sized PSU. Pick your CD/DVD writer carefully, its length will be a factor.

jackylman
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by jackylman » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:19 am

Hi! Welcome to SPCR.

RAM: Do not settle for 1 GB with 2GB kit prices so low. I built a PC for my mom (who used to do e-mail and basic browsing on the old P3) and found that once I gave her a fast computer, she started to do more with it (pictures, lots of web video content, etc.) This kit will work perfectly. It's nothing fancy, but it's name-brand 2GB DDR2-800 and POST's @ 1.8V, which should make your build easy.

HD: The Samsung 321KJ (320GB), when soft-mounted, is the quietest desktop drive I have ever heard, much better than my WD 2500KS. It can be found at ZZF for $80. Look around for the 160 GB version (Make sure it's T-series not P-series)

firefox90
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by firefox90 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:12 pm

Already planning for the cramped size. I have a few spare drives laying around if the one from his Dell does not fit.

RAM: Agreed. The prices are just too low to ignore. I noticed the voltage factors after you mentioned it on the RAM. The 2x1GB of G.Skill I mentioned in the first post says 1.8~2.0v according to G.Skill and Newegg. Does that mean it will run fine at 1.8v or am I better off going for the value RAM such as that Adata set (ignore the small cost difference)?

HD: I found the 160 GB Samsung, but it is a 5400rpm laptop drive. I think I want to stick with the faster 7200rpm desktop drives. I was looking at a few more drives within around $60. (Remember huge drives is not a big deal) I found a few more options and am not quite sure where to go.
WD Caviar RE WD1600YS (16 mb cache $60)
WD Caviar SE WD1600AAJS (8 mb cache $50
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160815AS (8 mb cache $53)

Performance between the 8 and 16 mb cache will be negligible for him. The more important factor would be noise if I was to decide between the 2 WDs. The Seagate is there as well.

Motherboard: I was looking at this Gigabyte. It has slightly better reviews and pitches the separate output card (cleaner case). I have never used Gigabyte components before although I have heard they are great. I have also heard their support is better than Asus's support. Any comments on Gigabyte's current status?

Also, would I be better off going for an Nvidia IGP motherboard such as the 6100 or 6150? The Asus is around $95. The others such as Biostar are in the same price range although I have never really trusted Biostar, ECS, etc.

Thanks a ton for all of the great information!

autoboy
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Location: San Jose, California

Post by autoboy » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:53 pm

If you find the stock cpu fan too noisy, I like the Arctic Cooling Alpine7. It runs very quiet with an undervolted CPU.

Linnaeus Tripe
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:41 pm

Post by Linnaeus Tripe » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:00 pm

I just did the same build for my brother - non-gamer, wants to watch some movies on TV/monitor. Replacing an old, loud P3.

Antec NSK3480 $79 (free shipping!) Very impressed with this case!
GIGABYTE GA-73UM-S2H 7150 ($89) - HDMI, decent on-board graphic/sound
2 x 2 GB no-name DDR2-800 sticks ($50)
120 GB Seagate HD (free - salvage :D ) mounted on bottom of case
Scythe Ninja - fanless - took some effort to shoe-horn into the case.
Thermaltake Silent Wheel as only fan - connected to CPU fan controller (trimmed black plastic around edges of fan to fit into indented rear-fan slot)
C2D e6400 (Ebay $66 - seems "lightly used" :wink: )
WinXP Pro (from my Vista install)
Lite-On DVD burner $25.

Very stable, very quiet (only sound is slight click of HD). Antec NSK3480 looks great, too! No fancy lights or bells, but has USB/Firewire and audio easy access in front panel. Temps in my family room 26-34 with modest load (no, I don't know my ambient temp - probably around 24/25)

I think he will be delighted!

(I figure this build will be good for awhile, and if he wants to improve his graphic performance, he could throw a nice fanless video card on the PCIex16 slot - but I'll let the cheap rascal do that on his own!)

jackylman
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by jackylman » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:29 am

firefox90 wrote:The 2x1GB of G.Skill I mentioned in the first post says 1.8~2.0v according to G.Skill and Newegg. Does that mean it will run fine at 1.8v or am I better off going for the value RAM such as that Adata set (ignore the small cost difference)?
The G.Skill kit should be set to run and POST at 1.8V. When they specify the 2V, they're probably saying that you can up the voltage to try and OC it. Either kit should work fine. I suggested the A-Data kit because it was a bit cheaper.
HD: I found the 160 GB Samsung, but it is a 5400rpm laptop drive. I think I want to stick with the faster 7200rpm desktop drives.
The lappy drive wasn't the one I was referring to. I'm not sure if they even sell the T-Series 160GB desktop variant in the U.S. though. Maybe that's why you couldn't find it. Of the drives you listed, the 1600AAJS is the one you'd want.
Motherboard: I was looking at this Gigabyte. ..Also, would I be better off going for an Nvidia IGP motherboard such as the 6100 or 6150?
I'd suggest browsing or looking through our mobo forum for opinions on various boards. I think the choice comes down to 690G or 7050. The 6100's are older and the NB tends to run hot. Plus, some of the boards don't have DVI.

EDIT: I would suggest giving the stock cooler a shot. It can be quiet if combined with good fan control and undervolting. One thing I would recommend if you use the stock cooler: remove the cheap thermal grease with rubbing alcohol and use quality thermal compound like Arctic Silver 5. I did this with my mom's CPU, and the stock cooler keeps very cool with just a little airflow.

QuietOC
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Re: $350 Xmas Build for Dad

Post by QuietOC » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:31 am

firefox90 wrote:I was looking at some different items. Let me know what you think.
Motherboard - Asus M2A-VM
Processor - AMD X2 4000+ 65w
Memory - 2x1GB G.Skill DDR2 800
I had that G.Skill in a Biostar Tforce 7050 and X2 3600+. No problems with it, though I just sold it on eBay for more than Newegg's current price. I would just get the cheapest memory, DDR2 1.8V. I just ordered a 2x512MB DDR2 1066 kit yesterday from Newegg for free after rebate--who knows if I will get the rebate money.

Not sure what to recommend for AMD CPUs. I feel lazy so I got the Athlon 64 LE-1620, which should be the best cheap CPU for older (non SMP) games. I am guessing it won't be any worse than a S754 Athlon 64 3400+, which it is replacing. AMD's 65nm chips don't seem to be any better than 90nm, or maybe it is just the dual cores that aren't all that great.
Where I am stuck is on cases (+ PSU) and hard drives. Build difficulty isn't an issue with cases so don't worry about that.

I would really prefer to stick to Micro-ATX, but it seems there are a lot of quality issues or other issues with them. What would you guys recommend. It can really be any form of M-ATX except media center form.
I've been happy with my $40 In Win Z-series MicroATX case with included Power Man P300AJ2 300W power supply. I even bought a second copy of the power supply (<$20) to use in a modded eMachine microATX case. I did swap the In Win suppied 120mm fans in both for $8 Global Win NCBs. I also popped out the side dimple on the side of the In Win case to fit the Ninja, so, yes, it took a little work.

If you don't want to modify as much or spend the money for the Antecs the CoolerMaster Centurion 541 is a possibility.
HD - Anything 80gb and SATA works, but I am aiming for quiet. I just am clueless here. I think Seagates are generally known to be quiet, but I may be wrong. Guidance would be appreciated.
WD AAKS series is pretty decent--Samsungs a little slower and perhaps quieter, though sample variance might make it a wash.
Last edited by QuietOC on Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

QuietOC
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Post by QuietOC » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:50 am

firefox90 wrote: Also, would I be better off going for an Nvidia IGP motherboard such as the 6100 or 6150? The Asus is around $95. The others such as Biostar are in the same price range although I have never really trusted Biostar, ECS, etc.
The only reason to go 7025/7050 over 6100/6150 is HDCP/HDMI support. The Biostar TForce boards are good. I definitely say the AM2 Tforce 7050 is no where near the board the S754 TForce 6100 was--like most things once a good reputation is achieved a manufacturer feels it can reduce quality.

I am actually currently using a $20 ECS 6100 (C51G-M754) motherboard with a 2.4GHz Athlon 64 3400+ without any problems--even runs a X1950GT just fine. It only runs memory at 2T command timing and pretty much lacks any type of BIOS features (though it can raise the FSB speed).

I haven't had great experience with ASUS's cheap boards. Their name in itself doesn't mean anything but more money IMHO, but I decided to play Newegg's dice and ordered open box versions of the M2A-VM ($40) and the P5K-VM ($80). Hopefully, at least one of them when work well, as its time to sell my DDR. (The later ASUS board + Pentium E2140 = 3.2+GHz overclocked Intel coolness).

You might check out eBay for used heatsinks. I just sold my original Scythe Ninja for <$25 shipped--though that won't work on AM2 motherboards. :)

firefox90
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Post by firefox90 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:18 pm

Hard Drive: Chose the WD 1600AAJS

Heatsink: Stick with stock for starters and and AS5

Motherboard: I ruled out the Asus 690G. I am ow looking at the Gigabyte from above and the Abit AN-M2HD Geforce 7050PV. I am leaning towards the Abit because from what I am reading in the MB forums, the Nvidia drivers are currently more refined.

I also looked at the Intel for options. The M-ATX MB options are more limited and the integrated video options (HDMI, DVI, etc) are not up to snuff compared to AMD options. The cheapest C2Ds are the Allendale 2160/80. It seems they overclock like mad, but that is not what I want for this computer. The 4000+ and 2160/80 seem to perform fairly similarly stock. I figured I might as well stick with the better M-ATX MB selection with AMD. Future upgradability is not much of a concern as this will probably be his last desktop PC before he moves to strictly laptops. Just let me know if you agree with my reasoning and that I should stick with what I have so far. All of these choices are tiring me out. :lol:

Case: 99% Antec NSK3480 (exactly what I am looking for)

Current Proposed Parts:

Case: Antec NSK3480
PSU: Antec 380w w/ case
Motherboard: Gigabyte 690G or Abit 7050PV (both above)
CPU: AMD X2 4000+ Brisbane
RAM: G.Skill 2x1 gb (above)
Hard Drive: WD SE 1600AAJS 160 gb
Optical: DVD-ROM from current Dell

~$330 shipped

I am surprised. That is a pretty damn solid day-to-day PC.

AND! No making fun of the AMD 64 3400+ etc. I have an AMD 64 3200+ socket 754 + 1 gb ram + 6800GT ( :evil: ish loud).

Again, I want to thank you guys for all of the great information!

firefox90
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by firefox90 » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:13 pm

Bump.

I am going to be ordering today. Any last suggestions (specifically on the motherboard)?

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