Silent/less [noisy] system II

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Rasbelin
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:05 pm
Location: Finland

Silent/less [noisy] system II

Post by Rasbelin » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:49 pm

Some 2,5 years ago I made my first serious attempt on constructing a silent PC, which at the time was something new for me. Now the same ol' system is still up and running (typing this on it), for which I asked advices for here at SPCR. :) Now time has passed and my needs have changed. The current system has actually still more power than I actually need, so it will be more of a modernisation project, getting a fresher and smaller system, which should ultimately actually be quiet. The current fails at that much due to my own laziness. PCs are no longer really that thrilling to me, so I'm not power hungry like FPS playing teenage boys, looking to have the meanest machine on the block. :D

I first considered going with a small cube case, but then I realised it will cause too much headache for setting up a good airflow with as little fans as possible. Also there's quite little space for padding the HDDs etc. Now my current mid sized Yesico OpenAir ATX case is simply dull and ugly. Especially as it's at a very visible place in my living room. So that's why I first and foremost want to go as small as reasonably possible. Although I still don't want to compromise too much with the space I have for a good airflow, I've settled with going a small tower case MATX setup.

My first thought was to go with a cube case and a mobile CPU, but the current Socket M MATX mobos are either without PCI-E or then you just simply can't find ones. I've looked at several notable online retailers, also in Germany, so limited availability seems to be a wider issue. So without a good mobo, the Socket M option is a "no go."

As that option is ruled out, I decided to try cut back on the number of fans and hope to find a good fanless graphics accelerator.

I'm not looking for recommendations for all components, rather I'd like to here comments regarding specific cooling, noise and heat issues.

My assumed setup will be something like:

- Intel Core 2 Duo E6750
- some good non nVidia based MATX mobo, TBD later
- 2 GB RAM
- average ATI graphics accelerator
- WLAN card (the only re-used component)
- 2 HDDs, TBD later
- DVD-/+RW drive, TBD later
- Antec NSK3480 case
- replacement PSU (Seasonic?)

First of all I realise that the CPU might be too much of a hottie for my system, so I can compromise, if needed, and get something less speedy. CPU speed isn't the essential thing here, as you can see from my initial plan trying going Socket M instead.

I have read SPCR's review of the particular Antec case in question, so I'm aware that the included PSU won't be as silent as it's ought to be in a silenced system. :) That's why I'll sell it and replace it with something else. My first option was the Silverstone ST30NF, which would be enough in terms of power output. However it was noted already elsewhere here on SPCR that this particular case will be a bit tricky for it, as the thermal zoning will make it run a bit warmer than in more traditional cases. Thus I assume it's better to rule it out? Especially as I won't be adding any fans to the upper compartment, if I'd go with it.

Due to the thermal comparment walling, I won't be able to use a Seasonic or Corsair PSU right out of the box, so I was instead planning to use the top vent as an exhaust instead, by either reversing the fan inside the PSU or by reversing the PSU itself. As you can see from my illustration, that'd mean the PSU fan would be drawing cool air from the back instead, rather than venting the hot air that way. Antec's own PSU is fitted with a fan that draws the hot air out, but I'm not aware of any PSU with that kind of airflow solution, which would be comparable to Seasonic or Corsair in terms of noise. Or is there? :? One option could of course be that I swap the fan to something else than Adda, which I might do anyway in both scenarios. Recommendations?

Now my main gripe is that how I should solve the cooling of the main compartment. I've come up with two different options, but I'm willing to do it different than that, so other suggestions are welcome. Basically there would be just two fans, one 12 cm Yate-Loon/Nexus (TBD) at the back as an exhaust fan, which would be pretty close to the CPU. If the current CPU of choice isn't too much heat generating, I would be having it passive cooled with whatever CPU cooler is right now the "hot stuff." I'm not really up-to-date with what's now recommended, so feel free to suggest. :) I've seen people talking about Ninjas, but I guess it ain't Japanese men with swords? ;)

The graphics accelerator would be a passive cooled ATI, as I have an ich that currently ATI GPUs produce slightly less heat than nVidia's. Some Radeon HD2600 or HD2400 should be sufficient. The mobo chipset will also be non nVidia for the very same reason. Furthermore I'd like to try something else for a change. Been using nVidia for graphics and mobo for the last 2 PCs.

Scenario A

Image

Scenario B

Image

Those yellow rectangles are supposed to be Nexus look-a-like fans. It's just semantics, so don't mind what brand they look like. :D I didn't add one to the back, as the picture already contains one fan there. Also please excuse the fact that the airflow arrows aren't in correct proportion to how the air probably moves. They're just to show what moves air from point A to point B.

Now the difference between my two different scenarios would come from where the front intake fan would be located. If it's option A, I assume it would be smaller than 12 cm. In option B it would be at least 12 cm. The illustrations don't include the different components, but basically the two HDDs would be located near the top front area of the lower compartment or alternatively at the bottom of the front are. So the intake fan would dragging in cool air either behind the HDDs or in front of them.

Now my question is, taking into regard how I intend to have the CPU and GPU without any direct active cooling, which scenario is better and are they realistic anyway with my components? If not, would a slower CPU (ie. less heat) solve it?

Rasbelin
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:05 pm
Location: Finland

Post by Rasbelin » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:21 pm

Was my question too complicated or my message too long? :( Well, I can try to shorten it, if it makes people more willing to reply. Help would be much appreciated. :)

Rasbelin
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:05 pm
Location: Finland

Post by Rasbelin » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:17 pm

It seems my topic has been so popular in terms of replies, so I might just as well continue my monologue. :P

After some research and thinking, I settled with the following components:

PSU: Corsair CMPSU-550VXEU - The 550W big brother of the 450W one, which was reviewed by SPCR and received good credit. Something like 300-330W would be more than adequate, but finding a silent enough PSU in that category seems a bit too much asked. Especially now as Seasonic isn't that good anymore in that category. Availability made me choose this one, rather than the reviewed one.
CPU HS: Thermalright Ultra 120A - the Ninja (yeah, figured out what it was) would be great, but I don't like the idea of having to tinker with its lack of proper screws. Furthermore I have Thermalright now and it's been okay.
Rear exhaust fan: Noctua NF-S12-1200
Front/middle intake fan: Noctua NF-S12-800 - could still swap it for a second 1200 RPM one.

I still need to find a good fan controller (recommendations are welcome - however no ugly blue neon light LED stuff) and work out that airflow issue. Hopefully the two Noctua fans will be sufficient.

QuaiBoy
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:45 am

Post by QuaiBoy » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:58 pm

I'll give you some feedback.

Seems really well thought out. Just a few points. Do you have a budget for the system? It seems you could do just as well for less if you want to, especially since you're happy with your current system. Consider a more efficient CPU and look around for the most efficient MBs.

I would still consider the Seasonic PSUs. I've had the 330w for well over a year now on a very power hungry system. Is it as quiet as some of the older 300s? No, but it's very, very quiet and doesn't ramp up the fan at all. It's a very stable system as well, weeks without a reboot running XP. I've also never had a Seasonic crap out on me (unlike the Antecs, which seem to go weird and cause instability rather than just blowing up).

Consider a MB with integrated graphics. They've come a long way and are quite powerful and sufficient for all 2d and many 3d apps. This will save you money and keep you from having to cool another card. You can always add discrete graphics later.

Don't have experience with your other components so I'll stop here. Many on this board have far more experience that I so you might want to look around a bit more if they don't reply. Good luck.

-Evan

Rasbelin
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:05 pm
Location: Finland

Post by Rasbelin » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:56 pm

First of all thanks for replying! :)

I don't have an exact budget for my system. I just want it to be as small as possible, without compromising too much, and I try to keep it modestly priced. In terms of performance, I want it to be around what I have now and what I outlined in my first message. Actually I could probably get a cheaper CPU. A more efficient one than the one I mentioned, would be really waste of money in my case.

The reason for choosing that Corsair PSU is that it's manufactured by Seasonic, so it's basically a re-labeled Seasonic. Will have to reconsider it once more, but the SPCR review wasn't that promising. As for integrated graphics, it's ruled out as long as it uses shared RAM. I don't want to sacrifice any RAM, as I can get instead an average graphics acceleararor at an acceptable price and without a fan. If the graphics memory could be integrated too, then it'd be a different story.

Anyway, I've now pondered a bit more on the airflow issue. Basically I'm planning to use bungee cord for hanging the hard drives from the small 3,5" drive bay. :) As seen on SPCR: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article109-page1.html. That'd leave enough space for the fan at the lower front intake. I also have an ich that I'll swap the front fan to a 92 mm one, so that I avoid having to tinker with the fastening and dampening of a 120 mm fan at the front. Unless someone has an idea how it could be done easily and without vibration?

porkchop
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 1:19 am
Location: Australia

Post by porkchop » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:30 pm

i'm running my nsk3400 with one exhaust fan only, temps are very good- system temps hover around 10C above ambient and the hdd is 0-3C hotter (the hottest i've seen for the hdd is 43C, this was a 40C+ day, with my room 30C+).

most of the fresh air in my case comes through the back (open pci slots and grill), with some coming through the bottom front (the top 70% is blocked with a slab of foam).

see my sig for system specs.

(i'll try to get a pic up here tonight :wink:)

darkb
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:07 pm
Location: Australia

Post by darkb » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:18 pm

Something for consideration.. Intel's new penryn based 45nm cpu's are out now..
Last time I looked www.auspcmarket.com.au had a 3.0ghz E8400 for $275 posted.

Also, www.pccasegear.com.au have Powercolor ATI HD3850 256mb on sale for $235 atm,
and that with an Accelero S1 would be very nice.. really fast efficient system there..
Would play HD videos nicely and run really cool on idle :)

PC Case Gear also stock Scythe Slipstream fans now :D

porkchop
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 1:19 am
Location: Australia

Post by porkchop » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:48 am

Image
:D

before i got the vid card, i ran with only the exhaust fan and a little duct- temps were about the same but with slightly higher cpu temps.

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