New System Build using Antec P182

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Kobold
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New System Build using Antec P182

Post by Kobold » Sun May 11, 2008 11:40 am

Hello everyone,

I have been reading (and thinking) alot for the last two months and finally I have much things decided but would of course like some qualyfied comments on a new system I want to build in the next month or so. With this I want to have a really quiet system with passive cooling for CPU and GPU if possible. I don't want to overclock at all but like my stuff cool passively nonetheless. Will be mostly used for office purposes but gaming will occur :D


Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS4 (approx. 140 €)
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.00GHz (approx. 170 €)
Memory: Crucial DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800 Kit (Ballistix; 4-4-4-12) (approx. 100 €)
Video Card: Either passively cooled HD 3870 or 9600 GT perhaps using an Accelero S1 cooler (seems to be the best? I really would appreciate some more comments here apart from what I read. ATM I will probably go with an unmodded passive Powercolor Radeon HD3870 SCS3 for about 170 €)
Case: Antec P182 (approx 110€, already ordered)
Hard Drive: 2xWestern Digital 500 GB GP series in Raid 1 (in sum approx. 140 €)
Processor Heatsink: Scythe Ninja Mini (approx. 30 €)
Processor Fan: None or sth slow running (Nexus Real Silent 92mm [ 10,90 €] + decoupling rubbers + fanmate?)
Rear Case Fans: upper: 500 rpm Scythe Slipstream; rear: 800 rpm Scythe Slipstream (approx 16 €)
Front Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm (approx. 8 Euro)
PSU: Enermax Modu82+ 425 or 525 Watts (approx. 70-100 €) (actually depending on noise recommendations, I know I won't need that much power as the 525, but am concerned about revs of the fan).

In sum approx. 1000 €

Perhaps I will also go with the mCubed T-Balancer MiniNG for the 800 rpm fans, I don't know yet. Opinions? Another topic is since I have not built a PC for several years I am confused about the RAM stuff. I will probably need only DDR2-667, but haven't found same with CL4 (ok I was not looking to hard ATM) so I decided to go for DDR2-800. I also saw some with CL3 from GEIL. I just chose the Corsair as an example but I would be happy with any recommandations. But the real question is if "passively" cooling the CPU with two nearby slow fans will be possible in this case.

So thats all for the moment (I know I will think of sth. I forgot the moment I post :D).

Thanks in advance guys.

Kobold

P.S. Would a Thermalright bolt-thru kit be a good idea for the ninja mini?

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Post by thejamppa » Sun May 11, 2008 2:16 pm

Yes passively cooling is possible in that case. No problems. I am passively cooling same TDP X2 in P182 with single exhaust fan. Bolth thru kit is essential for regular ninja but not necessarily minja, since Minja has less mass so torque is less. However price difference between ninja and minja are almost none-existing. And with Ninja they supply Slipstreams now.

However I recomend with e8400 to have at least DDR2 800Mhz if you plan to overclock. Since when you rise FSB from 333 to 400, then it correspendences the 800 Mhz DDR frequency. You may not yet want to OC your system, like me neither but E8400 potential is so great, especially when you only need to rise FSB inorder to OC it without need of rising cores voltages until you get pass 3,6 Ghz.

9600 GT and HD 3870 are pretty equal in terms of power. however HD 3870 has two benefits: Lower Idle power consumption and it all ready has separate RAM and VRM heatsink that do not need to be removed when cooler is removed.

Installing accelero requires removing 12 screws in 9600 GT and you will have all bare card then. No cooling for rams or VRMs. HD 3870 requires removing 4 screws and you will then be left RAM and VRM coolers on intact, while cooler is removed. Very good bonus IMHO.

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Mon May 12, 2008 2:36 am

thejamppa wrote:Yes passively cooling is possible in that case. No problems. I am passively cooling same TDP X2 in P182 with single exhaust fan. Bolth thru kit is essential for regular ninja but not necessarily minja, since Minja has less mass so torque is less. However price difference between ninja and minja are almost none-existing. And with Ninja they supply Slipstreams now.
You are of course right with the pretty much nonexistent price difference, but I want the minja because of the lower weight. I don't like the thought of leverage on my mobo at all. Concerning the bolth thru kit I thought it will lower possibility of damage to PCB as well as perhaps giving somewaht better temps.
thejamppa wrote:However I recomend with e8400 to have at least DDR2 800Mhz if you plan to overclock. Since when you rise FSB from 333 to 400, then it correspendences the 800 Mhz DDR frequency. You may not yet want to OC your system, like me neither but E8400 potential is so great, especially when you only need to rise FSB inorder to OC it without need of rising cores voltages until you get pass 3,6 Ghz.
Right again, but first of all I was thinking abpout the CL4-rating. Another thing you or someone else could perhaps comment on is the choice of brand (if this still matters today, some years ago it certainly did).
thejamppa wrote:Installing accelero requires removing 12 screws in 9600 GT and you will have all bare card then. No cooling for rams or VRMs. HD 3870 requires removing 4 screws and you will then be left RAM and VRM coolers on intact, while cooler is removed. Very good bonus IMHO.
So you think I shouldn't bother with the passive Powercolor HD3870 SCS3 but directly get a normal HD 3870 + Accelero?

Thanks

Kobold

Cistron
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Post by Cistron » Mon May 12, 2008 3:42 am

I have a HD3870 SCS3. The problem is that the cooler is on both sides of the card and it basically takes up three slots. Clearance to NB heatsink is usually not a problem. I haven't spotted any RAM heatsinks, which is a likely reason why the memory frequency is set lower than in other HD3870 cards.

The card runs very cool (I have one fan blowing horizontally onto it) with idle temperatures around 35°C and load under 70°C. If I remember correctly it never rises past 66°C whilst playing Oblivion. However, there is intermittend whining occuring under 3D load. Not a problem for me, as I 3D load means gaming, equals whining noise is drowned out by the sound-effects.

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Post by thejamppa » Mon May 12, 2008 4:40 am

Well, I do recomend Mushkin and Corsair ram's myself. I have paired 2x2 GB Mushkin 800 Mhz with my e8400. Albeit clocks are 5-5-5-18 at stock, Mushkin can go way better than their stock clocks, same with Corsair.

kingston is excellent generic memory which I use in primary system with 0 OC.

But basically memories don't that much are different today. Corsair and Mushkin are safe bets I guess. Never had any troubles with them ever.

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Mon May 12, 2008 7:14 am

Well, thanks a lot for answers so far...

As I have been reading some articles about the P182 again I am thinking about the whole neagtive pressure thing and inbalanced airflow stuff. Perhaps I could use a Scythe Kama Bay in the upper 5.25" compartments with a 500 rpm Slipstream and replace the Slipstream in the lower bay with a 500 rpm one... bah... all theory is vain... I should probably just try it... doesn't cost much extra.

Kobold

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Tue May 13, 2008 12:28 pm

So any opinions on the PSU? The eXtreme Power Calculatorgave about 300 Watts at 90% load (adding an dvdrw and sound card I think). So of course I'll probably will get this only while gaming... will the Modu 425 be silent enough?

Kobold

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Post by thejamppa » Tue May 13, 2008 12:52 pm

Modu 425 is probably most silent actively cooled PSU's currently on market closely followed by Corsair VX 450.

SilentBen
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Post by SilentBen » Wed May 14, 2008 7:31 am

Not to toot my horn, but I'm sure you've read my VERY long posting at SilentBen's P182 Build.

Just a few quick comments:

- My ENERMAX PSU is really wonderful! You pay for what you get. Clean and consistent power is important, add efficiency to the mix, and you have an outstanding product. Mine is "silent" in my P182. I bought the most powerful for future preparedness, like for my next build.

- I'm still kind of split opinion on the Kama Bay. I just bought it and I'm happy. I like the idea of a direct air input inline with the CPU. The Slip @ 500 rpm will be "silent". Just try things out!

- DDR2 RAM is like a dime a dozen. Not sure of your intentions, but my OCZ was ridiculously cheap... ~$12.50/gb after rebate! I have 4gb of DDR2 800mhz, 5-5-5-15, and its solid for me. So far!

- Putting the Accelero S1 on my EVGA 9600GT (stock) was great. I have no coil whine, pretty low temperatures under load, and it is fully passive. The AS1 includes RAM heat sinks that take all but a few added minutes to install. Look at my pictures in my thread... If you also look at my HD3870, 8800GT, & 9600GT debate, it might help you too! I kept swaying my opinion, but the 9600GT is solid for me so far. I run all my games 1600x1200, 8x multisample, 8x antialiasing, and I maintain my FPS at reasonable rates!

The ASUS EN9600GT silent is also on Newegg now... if you're not into modding and want to stay away from ECS (mixed reviews about coil whine).

If you want to talk directly to me about my experience, send me a PM! I'll be glad to send more pictures, info, etc.

Good luck!

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Thu May 15, 2008 10:56 pm

Well,

I have ordered most of the parts now. I will still need to get the Slipstreams and decouplers and stuff, but actually I am searching for some german website except keep-silent.de to order both the kama bay, the slipstreams and the nexus real silent 92 mm. Actually keep-silent.de seems to be the only german website which has nexus fans now.

Apart from that. I orderer the 525 watts Modu :D and for ram an OCZ 2 x 2048 Mb DDR2-6400 XTC CL4-Kit. We will see.
As I now used a cheaper website, I will probably come out at approx. 900 € in the end.


Kobold

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Fri May 16, 2008 1:49 am

Kobold wrote:I am searching for some german website except keep-silent.de to order both the kama bay, the slipstreams and the nexus real silent 92 mm.
A possible alternative to the Kama Bay is a Coolermaster 4-in-3 module - it's designed for additional hard drives, but obviously you could leave it empty for your purposes.

The reason I mention it is that it's much easier than a Kama Bay to install in a P182 - it's same depth as a standard optical drive and has screw holes in the same places, so you just attach four of the P182's 5.25" bay drive rails as normal, and it slots straight in as if it were purpose-designed for the job (unlike the Kama Bay, which only has short attachment tabs and takes a bit of fiddling to make it stay in place). It also has a less restrictive mesh than the Kama Bay, so airflow might be a bit better.

The downside is that you'd probably want to replace the fan - the 120mm CM included isn't terrible, but it hums a bit at full speed (about 1200rpm).

Just another thought, anyway. :)

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Sun May 18, 2008 5:34 am

@nick705 Thanks for the tip... I ordered the Coolermaster Module instead of the Kama Bay... seems nice enough to me.

@SilentBen Of course I've read your thread, i will contact you if I need hints. Thanks for the offer.

After all I've now ordered 3 x 800 rmp, 1 x 500 rpm scthye... headroom is always nice. Now waiting :(

Kobold

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Sun May 25, 2008 2:49 am

So,

finally everything has arrived and I did a basic install. Only some first order impressions now after putting most of the stuff into the case.

1) RTFM

In my case I didn't really bother as always. My Thermalright Bolt Thru Kit has not arrived yet so I decided to gice it a try with the pushpins. After cleaning the heatsink and the heatspreader (damn to much dust around :D) I applied some thermal paste and put the heatsink on top of the CPU. Then I wanted to push down the pushpins and as I didn't read the manual I thought I would have to twist them in the direction of the arrows printed on top. Of course thats not the case so I tried for some time to push in two opposite pushpins and of course the other one always popped out and the heatsink was twisting on the heatspreader :D. Finally I realzied that I didn't have to twist and then it worked really smooth. Still I don't like the installation mechanism with the ninja because it it quite fumbly. And I don't want to know how I spread the thermal paste :D. I will see later during stress testing.

2) RTFM

After installing the memory (on the IMO best memory slots I have seen for a while: easy non-fumble installation, not much pressure needed, still memory cannot be moved afterwards) and installing the Graphics Card (Are PCIE slots always so shitty? I can move the card sidewards at least 5 degrees easily) and installing the power supply I tried to start up the system. Hmmm nothing... checking.. only the cpu utilization LEDS come up... nothing else. Damn stupid me: Install ATX 12 V 4pin connector also (it has been for sure a long time since I build the last PC from scratch). Then everything was fine (the board does some self testing apparently which takes a while during first bootup, so don't get nervous if fans start and stop to spin repeately. It also does that after major changes in the BIOS i noticed).

So everything OK, CPU hat about 24 degrees Celcius in the BIOS. Let's get it into the case.

After installing the PSU upside down and noticing what I already guessed... the power connectors to the Mainboard are quite short if you install the PSU upside down and want to root the cables on the back I installed the motherboard and Graphics card. The large ATX connector can be rooted on the back the small 4 pin ATX 12V cannot due to poor placement of the connector on the Mainboard (upper left corner near the external connectors) I wanted to install all connectors from the case to the board.

3) Don't install the Powercolor Radeon HD3870 SCS3 before applying those connectors, you will for sure cut yourself on the heatsink. The fins are quite sharp.

And here I have a question:
I compared the HD Audio connector pin assignments for the Antec Case Cable and the GA EP35-DS4 rev2.1 Mainboard. I am not sure that they are the same because the names of the connectors differ somewhat. As I am not familiar with the nomenclature they still may be the same (I assume that actually). But can anyone confirm that I can connect HD audio form the case to the mainboard?

Afterwards I installed harddrives and a dvd-burner, two 800 rpm fans at the back and in front and one 500 rpm fan on top. I am not satisfied with the seating of the decouplers of the back fan because the fit very loosely in the case holes (case to thin here). I will probably get some small o-rings or sth like that.

4) Turn everything on => Very quiet, but not silent yet. I can faintly hear the seeks of the hard disks, I can hear the fans (well I still have the 80 mm fanm on the heat sink) but it is already mind-bogglingly more quiet than my old case. I will not hear it if my old computer or even only my external HDD is on.

That's it for the moment.

Kobold

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Post by sandman7777 » Sun May 25, 2008 8:25 am

Your board in the bios should have setting for HD Audio or ac97 if i correct that is how its in my book for my P5K Asus mobo so your may or may not be the same check your book I would set mine to HD until i got a Striker 7.1 card and moved up to PCI sound. Nice build i just put together a P-180B myself almost silent but its good enough for me i have the same tri-cool in the blow hole but 1200 Scythe in the lower and middle and a 1600 Scythe in the rear on a controller because it has a wurr to it on high and the other two i can adjust with the mobo management of fan speed i also did my own Kama-Bay type set up with an 80mm in the lower two optical slots and put filter on the slots in front of this fan which makes no noise at all on low and the Zalman 9500 on low is almost silent its a project to get a case perfectly silent and have good cooling good luck with your build. I have 21.1 ambient and the case runs 32c and the cpu is 28c at idle HD run in the low 30's and the GPU is running mid 40's which I think are good temps. I get nervous when they get up to 34 for case temps but a lot of people say that is alright for mobo temps I like to try and keep mine cooler.

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Sun May 25, 2008 10:21 am

Hi Sandman,

Thbaks for answering. I will probably get a Asus Xonar DX soon, but I think I have not made my point clear enough. It is not the problem of the Bios, it is the fact that the names for the assigned pins for HD-Audio on the mainboard and from the case differ somewhat.

All around I have done some testing:

With 80 mm stock fan in voltage control mode:
1 hour of "Blend"-test in Orthos => 48 degrees max.

Without stock fan: 60 degrees max.

Without stock fan and undervolted by 0,1 V: 55 degrees max after one hour.

Seems ok to me. What I don't like are the GPU temperatures, but I will have to look into that in more detail. Just tried out Atitemp and went to 80-90 degrees easily where the programm found some artifacts. Actually I haven't really read the documentation, so I need to look further into that. Perhaps the fan placement at the front of the case is also not optimal, I will probably try to move it directly in fromt of the card.

Ambient was about 22-25 degrees I guess.

HDDs are at about 35 degrees in the lower chamber. so for so good.
Oh, and after installing all drivers I have one single unidentified HD audio device in the device tab. Sound works so far. Any ideas?

Kobold

sandman7777
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Post by sandman7777 » Sun May 25, 2008 8:11 pm

I looked at your mobo manual and its different than my P5k and i have mine just plugged into the Striker card but I have another P5k with a P-182 just plugged into the mobo header for sound and it works and its looks like yours different marking than the case. They should make all the audio standard but it all has to be different.

Kobold
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Post by Kobold » Mon May 26, 2008 12:12 pm

Thanks again Sandman, I will try soon.

Actually I am more worrying about GPU temps now. Using Atitool I easily get to about 95 degrees centigrade after 15 minutes of artifact scanning. I think I don't like this. Perhaps someone can comment on that.

Problem is I am not able to fit a fan directly in front of the card and I assume airflow is very low around the card and the tightly spaced fins do not help.

Perhaps I should get an Accellero S1.

Kobold

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Post by Immortals » Mon May 26, 2008 12:36 pm

Kobold wrote:Thanks again Sandman, I will try soon.

Actually I am more worrying about GPU temps now. Using Atitool I easily get to about 95 degrees centigrade after 15 minutes of artifact scanning. I think I don't like this. Perhaps someone can comment on that.

Problem is I am not able to fit a fan directly in front of the card and I assume airflow is very low around the card and the tightly spaced fins do not help.

Perhaps I should get an Accellero S1.

Kobold
Definitely get an accelero. You aren't doing anything wrong but the stock cooler is just crap. In a case as big as the p182 there really isn't a disadvantage to getting one. My 3850 dropped in temps from 90 at load to just 50 (same core as the 3870). You should see a drop down to 60-70 degrees max since the 3870 is higher clocked at higher voltage.

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