As the title says. I am pretty sure that all of it would work, except for the VGA card. If you don't think that the 4830 would work, how about a 9800gt? And if that doesn't work (seems to be a pattern...lol) then I will settle for a 4670.
System Specs
Antec NSK1380
G.Skill 2x2gb DDR2 800mhz
Asus P5E-VM
Intel E7200
Noctua NH-U9B
Western Digital Scorpio Blue 500GB
G.Skill 64gb Solid State Drive
Sony External DVD Burner
HIS 4830
OR
EVGA 9800gt
OR
Sapphire 4670
Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 RV2
PW-200-V
LCD Display
The fan that comes with the NH-U9B would be put on the case as a case fan.
NOTE: I will not buy all from Newegg. It was just easier to link to one website. I will look for the best deals.
Some things that I will need help with:
What additional cables will I need to power the fans, Hard Drives, and Graphics Card?
Will the Noctua CPU cooler fit in the case with the CD drive bay removed?
Would there be room in the case to suspend the two drives?
Any thing that I am missing?
Could this work with a PW-200-V?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
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tehcrazybob
- Friend of SPCR
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Please don't bump threads until they've been ignored for a day or two. Everybody on here has a life away from the forums and can't be expected to respond immediately to requests.
Ranting aside, I think you're going to have some problems, and they're all centered around your choice of case. If you'd be willing to switch to an NSK 3480, your build will work perfectly and you'll end up with a tiny, quiet computer.
However, the 1380 has two huge limitations which are going to give you trouble. First, the power supply is the only available ventilation - there's no separate exhaust fan. This means if you want something even resembling a quiet computer, you'll probably need a dual-slot cooler on the video card. The video card will produce as much heat as everything else in the computer combined, and running all that through the power supply will most likely cause it to speed up considerably. Using a dual-slot video cooler, though, dumps all that waste heat directly outside the case. Most stock coolers are a bit loud, but I doubt they'd be any worse than trying to ventilate everything with the power supply - wait to see if other people agree with me or not before you make any decisions, as I haven't actually heard the latest stock coolers.
The other problem you'll have is slightly related to your first problem - the position of the power supply will probably interfere with your CPU cooler. You could get around this (and your cooling problem, incidentally) by switching to a PicoPSU and adding a 120mm exhaust fan, but then you'd probably be limited to the HD4670, as it's the only card in your list which doesn't require a PCIe auxiliary power connector.
All the cables and screws and other random things you need will probably come with your system. I've build many dozens of computers, and far from needing to buy those parts separately, I've actually built up a huge collection thanks to parts coming with more stuff than I needed.
If you remove the optical drive bay, you're still probably not going to have enough room to suspend two drives. With a huge amount of creativity, it may be possible, but don't expect it to be easy.
Again, all these problems are a result of the case you've chosen. If you're willing to get the very slightly larger NSK 3480, you'll have no problems. All your choices look very good.
Finally, I'd actually suggest that you do order everything from Newegg. You could probably save a few dollars by getting your parts from a dozen random stores, but buying everything from a single place is much simpler, and Newegg has absolutely fantastic customer support. I think the small extra expense will be worth it for the huge headache it could save you.
Ranting aside, I think you're going to have some problems, and they're all centered around your choice of case. If you'd be willing to switch to an NSK 3480, your build will work perfectly and you'll end up with a tiny, quiet computer.
However, the 1380 has two huge limitations which are going to give you trouble. First, the power supply is the only available ventilation - there's no separate exhaust fan. This means if you want something even resembling a quiet computer, you'll probably need a dual-slot cooler on the video card. The video card will produce as much heat as everything else in the computer combined, and running all that through the power supply will most likely cause it to speed up considerably. Using a dual-slot video cooler, though, dumps all that waste heat directly outside the case. Most stock coolers are a bit loud, but I doubt they'd be any worse than trying to ventilate everything with the power supply - wait to see if other people agree with me or not before you make any decisions, as I haven't actually heard the latest stock coolers.
The other problem you'll have is slightly related to your first problem - the position of the power supply will probably interfere with your CPU cooler. You could get around this (and your cooling problem, incidentally) by switching to a PicoPSU and adding a 120mm exhaust fan, but then you'd probably be limited to the HD4670, as it's the only card in your list which doesn't require a PCIe auxiliary power connector.
All the cables and screws and other random things you need will probably come with your system. I've build many dozens of computers, and far from needing to buy those parts separately, I've actually built up a huge collection thanks to parts coming with more stuff than I needed.
If you remove the optical drive bay, you're still probably not going to have enough room to suspend two drives. With a huge amount of creativity, it may be possible, but don't expect it to be easy.
Again, all these problems are a result of the case you've chosen. If you're willing to get the very slightly larger NSK 3480, you'll have no problems. All your choices look very good.
Finally, I'd actually suggest that you do order everything from Newegg. You could probably save a few dollars by getting your parts from a dozen random stores, but buying everything from a single place is much simpler, and Newegg has absolutely fantastic customer support. I think the small extra expense will be worth it for the huge headache it could save you.
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xan_user
- *Lifetime Patron*
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- Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
- Location: Northern California.
Was going to post and answer until i saw the bump...Im glad I didn't cause TCbobs post is worded so much better than I would have been able too.tehcrazybob wrote:Please don't bump threads until they've been ignored for a day or two. Everybody on here has a life away from the forums and can't be expected to respond immediately to requests.
I recently built a computer for my parents using that case. It is a good case, but I would like something smaller if possible...tehcrazybob wrote:Ranting aside, I think you're going to have some problems, and they're all centered around your choice of case. If you'd be willing to switch to an NSK 3480, your build will work perfectly and you'll end up with a tiny, quiet computer.
If I do end up deciding to use this case, I will be removing the Power supply and using a fan in its place. I assume that this means that I will be able to use better coolers (possible a Thermalright HR-01 Plus even?)... I would be fine using a 4670, but if the only reason that I should use it is because of the PCIe auxiliary power connector, how did people like AuraAllan get around it with a 3870?tehcrazybob wrote:However, the 1380 has two huge limitations which are going to give you trouble. First, the power supply is the only available ventilation - there's no separate exhaust fan. This means if you want something even resembling a quiet computer, you'll probably need a dual-slot cooler on the video card. The video card will produce as much heat as everything else in the computer combined, and running all that through the power supply will most likely cause it to speed up considerably. Using a dual-slot video cooler, though, dumps all that waste heat directly outside the case. Most stock coolers are a bit loud, but I doubt they'd be any worse than trying to ventilate everything with the power supply - wait to see if other people agree with me or not before you make any decisions, as I haven't actually heard the latest stock coolers.
The other problem you'll have is slightly related to your first problem - the position of the power supply will probably interfere with your CPU cooler. You could get around this (and your cooling problem, incidentally) by switching to a PicoPSU and adding a 120mm exhaust fan, but then you'd probably be limited to the HD4670, as it's the only card in your list which doesn't require a PCIe auxiliary power connector.
I don't have too much doubt that I will be able to find a way to do it. What would help though is to know rather the G.Skill SSD would create any noise if it is touching the case...you know, vibrations and the such.tehcrazybob wrote:If you remove the optical drive bay, you're still probably not going to have enough room to suspend two drives. With a huge amount of creativity, it may be possible, but don't expect it to be easy.
Thank you for the input!tehcrazybob wrote:Finally, I'd actually suggest that you do order everything from Newegg. You could probably save a few dollars by getting your parts from a dozen random stores, but buying everything from a single place is much simpler, and Newegg has absolutely fantastic customer support. I think the small extra expense will be worth it for the huge headache it could save you.
I would like to appologize for my impatience. I will be sure to keep this in mind in the future.xan_user wrote:Was going to post and answer until i saw the bump...Im glad I didn't cause TCbobs post is worded so much better than I would have been able too.tehcrazybob wrote:Please don't bump threads until they've been ignored for a day or two. Everybody on here has a life away from the forums and can't be expected to respond immediately to requests.
I would still appriciate any help from anyone if they are not going to punish me for my bad move here... 
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tehcrazybob
- Friend of SPCR
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 pm
- Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
- Contact:
AuraAllan appears to have added a PCIe connector to his PicoPSU. It would either require some soldering or, in your case, a hilarious number of Molex Y-adapters and plug converters. If you're comfortable doing that, there's no reason it couldn't work.Asulc wrote:If I do end up deciding to use this case, I will be removing the Power supply and using a fan in its place. I assume that this means that I will be able to use better coolers (possible a Thermalright HR-01 Plus even?)... I would be fine using a 4670, but if the only reason that I should use it is because of the PCIe auxiliary power connector, how did people like AuraAllan get around it with a 3870?
None whatsoever. The SSD has no moving parts and no coils, which are the only sources of noise in a computer. The easiest way of installing an SSD is to stick it somewhere with double-sided tape, but you could also use a solid mounting bracket, duct tape, zip ties, hot glue, or just gravity without any problems.Asulc wrote:What would help though is to know rather the G.Skill SSD would create any noise if it is touching the case...you know, vibrations and the such.
Final Part List...Please Review!
From Newegg
Antec NSK1380
HIS 4830
G.Skill 2x2gb
Gigabyte G41
Intel E5200
Western Digital Scorpio 400gb
Sony External DVD
OCZ 30gb SSD
Performance-PCs
Noctua 120mm fan x2
Accelero S1 Rev2
FrozenCPU
Thermalright HR-01 Plus
Mini-Box
PicoLCD
PW-200-V
My Plans
I will be cutting a hole in the side of the case to move air across the accelero. The 120mm fan hole in the back will be cut out, and the fan pulling air through the HR-01. I will also be purchasing cables to make the wiring neater, which I do not need help purchasing. All cables will be individually sleeved to make airflow and cable routing ideal.
From Newegg
Antec NSK1380
HIS 4830
G.Skill 2x2gb
Gigabyte G41
Intel E5200
Western Digital Scorpio 400gb
Sony External DVD
OCZ 30gb SSD
Performance-PCs
Noctua 120mm fan x2
Accelero S1 Rev2
FrozenCPU
Thermalright HR-01 Plus
Mini-Box
PicoLCD
PW-200-V
My Plans
I will be cutting a hole in the side of the case to move air across the accelero. The 120mm fan hole in the back will be cut out, and the fan pulling air through the HR-01. I will also be purchasing cables to make the wiring neater, which I do not need help purchasing. All cables will be individually sleeved to make airflow and cable routing ideal.
Remember to get a 200 W power brick, or the PW-200-V/M is no good! You can get a Dell DA-2 on eBay for ~$35.
And you' going to need some 1-to-3 Molex cable splitters, at least one molex to SATA connector, a Molex to P4 connector and finally a Molex to PCIe power.
And you can't do the 7 V trick with a PW-200-V, so if you plan on undervolting your fans, you might need a fan controller.
And you' going to need some 1-to-3 Molex cable splitters, at least one molex to SATA connector, a Molex to P4 connector and finally a Molex to PCIe power.
And you can't do the 7 V trick with a PW-200-V, so if you plan on undervolting your fans, you might need a fan controller.
I was just looking on ebay, but I could not find any of the said power bricks...Strid wrote:Remember to get a 200 W power brick, or the PW-200-V/M is no good! You can get a Dell DA-2 on eBay for ~$35.
And you' going to need some 1-to-3 Molex cable splitters, at least one molex to SATA connector, a Molex to P4 connector and finally a Molex to PCIe power.
And you can't do the 7 V trick with a PW-200-V, so if you plan on undervolting your fans, you might need a fan controller.
I will be buying molex and sata connectors. This was my plan on wiring...
PW-200-V-----20 pin ATX-----24 pin ATX
|
|-----Dell DA-2
|
Molex-----P4 ATX
|
Molex-----PCIe 6 pin
|
Molex-----Sata-----Sata
I don't think that there is any way to go straight from the PW-200-V to a P4 ATX connection. Correct me if I am wrong. Also if there is anyway that I could make the connections simpler...
I did not know that you can't do the 7 volt trick with the PW-200-V. Does that mean that I would not be able to use the ULNA that comes with the Noctua fans? If it does mean that, what would you recommend instead? A different fan? Or a fan controller? I have a feeling that I am getting close to the limits of the PW-200-V, so I wouldn't want anything that would add more power if it would push the PW-200-V too much.
Thank you!
EDIT: Would this Fan Controller work? As in not draw too much power? It seems to be the only controller that I can find that looks good and only controls two fans. If it doesn't work, I would be willing to use this instead.
Last edited by Asulc on Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hey, I just searched for "dell da-2" on eBay, and lots of listings came up! One example is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-DA-2-Series-AC ... dZViewItem
I bought mine off of AuraAllan from this forum, and it came with a molex-P4 connector, so they do exist!
The reason that you can't do the 7 V trick (wires in +12 V and +5 V) is that the 12 V is just sent straight through from the power brick, so when you turn the PC off, the +12 V line actually stays on, but the +5 V line is turned off and works as ground, so your fans will run at 12 V when you try and turn you PC off. The ULNA works with a resistor, IIRC, so it'll work just fine!
Any voltage regulating fan controller will work, so both of the ones you mention work. Btw, that 2nd one is nice IMO .. I might have to get one!
About the 4830 .. according to this:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?o ... itstart=11
it uses 157 W at full tilt, so you're pretty much off the 200 W power envelope there. A 4670 would be a better choice IMO.
But your baseline parts list looks kickass quiet!! Not much different from mine with passive PSU, an SSD and and two über quiet fans!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-DA-2-Series-AC ... dZViewItem
I bought mine off of AuraAllan from this forum, and it came with a molex-P4 connector, so they do exist!
The reason that you can't do the 7 V trick (wires in +12 V and +5 V) is that the 12 V is just sent straight through from the power brick, so when you turn the PC off, the +12 V line actually stays on, but the +5 V line is turned off and works as ground, so your fans will run at 12 V when you try and turn you PC off. The ULNA works with a resistor, IIRC, so it'll work just fine!
Any voltage regulating fan controller will work, so both of the ones you mention work. Btw, that 2nd one is nice IMO .. I might have to get one!
About the 4830 .. according to this:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?o ... itstart=11
it uses 157 W at full tilt, so you're pretty much off the 200 W power envelope there. A 4670 would be a better choice IMO.
But your baseline parts list looks kickass quiet!! Not much different from mine with passive PSU, an SSD and and two über quiet fans!
So if I change the 4830 to a 4670, get the fan controller, and find one of the dell power bricks, it would work fine?Strid wrote:Hey, I just searched for "dell da-2" on eBay, and lots of listings came up! One example is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-DA-2-Series-AC ... dZViewItem
I bought mine off of AuraAllan from this forum, and it came with a molex-P4 connector, so they do exist!
The reason that you can't do the 7 V trick (wires in +12 V and +5 V) is that the 12 V is just sent straight through from the power brick, so when you turn the PC off, the +12 V line actually stays on, but the +5 V line is turned off and works as ground, so your fans will run at 12 V when you try and turn you PC off. The ULNA works with a resistor, IIRC, so it'll work just fine!
Any voltage regulating fan controller will work, so both of the ones you mention work. Btw, that 2nd one is nice IMO .. I might have to get one!
About the 4830 .. according to this:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?o ... itstart=11
it uses 157 W at full tilt, so you're pretty much off the 200 W power envelope there. A 4670 would be a better choice IMO.
But your baseline parts list looks kickass quiet!! Not much different from mine with passive PSU, an SSD and and two über quiet fans!
Also, I was having second thoughts about how much the second fan would drop temps on the 4830, and now that it will be a 4670, it would drop it even less. Any idea on how much of a drop it will be?
EDIT: I noticed a thread a while ago and was going to post on it but forgot to...and now I cannot find it. Anyway, it was discussing linking two picoPSUs together to power a more powerful computer. Would that work with one of these and two PW-200-Vs?
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tehcrazybob
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- Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
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If you order a bare P4 lead and a PW-200 simultaneously from Mini-Box.com, they'll automatically solder them for you and save you the trouble.Asulc wrote:I don't think that there is any way to go straight from the PW-200-V to a P4 ATX connection. Correct me if I am wrong. Also if there is anyway that I could make the connections simpler...
Perhaps, but it's not necessary. You're well within the capabilities of the PW-200. I'm not sure about the validity of the review saying the 4830 uses 157 watts; SPCR's own review has it at only 87. 87 watts is well within both the power and cooling capabilities of your system with only a single PW-200.Asulc wrote:EDIT: I noticed a thread a while ago and was going to post on it but forgot to...and now I cannot find it. Anyway, it was discussing linking two picoPSUs together to power a more powerful computer. Would that work with one of these and two PW-200-Vs?
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hybrid2d4x4
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:45 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
^157W does sound like over-estimating, indeed. My 4870 draws 35W more than with a 9600GT at idle, and ~130W more the the 9600GT idle with the 4870 GPU at full load (and cpu loaded most of the way as well) in a new game such as GRID. So worst physically-possible case scenario for a 4870 would be about 160W. And this is assuming that all the other components such as CPU, RAM, HDD, chipset DON'T use any more power at that load level than they do at idle, which is obviously false. So really, a 4870 probably maxes out at 120-130W, and as an aside, even though that DDR5 runs at a lower voltage than DDR3, I'm guessing it has a LOT more current going through it judging by the insane temps it hits. In fact, I didn't like how hot the ram ran so I underclocked it to 550 from 900 (20-25% FPS decrease in Crysis 1.0, but no noticeable difference in the other games, which are vsync capped at 60), and my ENTIRE system idle power dropped from 129-134W to 118-122W. So following that logic, I'd expect a 4830 to be under 100W.
Dell DA-2 on eBay
And another good link to the Dell DA-2 on eBay:
http://computers.shop.ebay.com/items/?_ ... =1&_ipg=50
Take your pick! Just watch out for some of the sellers trying to rip you off with their inflated shipping rates.
http://computers.shop.ebay.com/items/?_ ... =1&_ipg=50
Take your pick! Just watch out for some of the sellers trying to rip you off with their inflated shipping rates.
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tehcrazybob
- Friend of SPCR
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- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 pm
- Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
- Contact:
Thank you for the link Dave. Tehcrazybob, I have many other diagrams that I could post later once I get home from work if you want, with only the power cables listed.
On another note, I was looking at the graphics cards again. This seems to be the part that I am struggling with the most. I am trying to get the best performance (obviously), but without pushing the power past what the PW-200-V can handle. I would like some input on what the most powerful card is that could work in my build. Keep in mind that I will be cooling it with a Accelero S1 Rev2.
Power Consuming parts
Gigabyte G41
G.Skill 2x2gb
Intel E5200
WD Scorpio 500gb
G.Skill 64gb SSD
Noctua 120mm fan (x2)
picoLCD
Scythe Fan controller
Thank you for all your help so far!
On another note, I was looking at the graphics cards again. This seems to be the part that I am struggling with the most. I am trying to get the best performance (obviously), but without pushing the power past what the PW-200-V can handle. I would like some input on what the most powerful card is that could work in my build. Keep in mind that I will be cooling it with a Accelero S1 Rev2.
Power Consuming parts
Gigabyte G41
G.Skill 2x2gb
Intel E5200
WD Scorpio 500gb
G.Skill 64gb SSD
Noctua 120mm fan (x2)
picoLCD
Scythe Fan controller
Thank you for all your help so far!
The 4850 doesn't seem to use too much more power than the 4830...would it work?
SPCRs review of the 4850 and 4830 put the 4850 using 16 more watts at full load...I still would like to know how much power the rest of the computer is using so that I can decide between the 4830 and 4850! Thank you all!
SPCRs review of the 4850 and 4830 put the 4850 using 16 more watts at full load...I still would like to know how much power the rest of the computer is using so that I can decide between the 4830 and 4850! Thank you all!
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tehcrazybob
- Friend of SPCR
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 pm
- Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
- Contact:
Based on some of the SPCR mATX motherboard reviews, I'd say you're looking at around 80 watts at full load for everything except the video card. Bearing in mind the SPCR review of the 4850 doesn't have Furmark numbers while the 4830 does, I'd guess that the 4850 draws about 110 watts at absolute full load. That runs you right up to 190 watts; you're borderline but probably okay.