Advice wanted on a small, quiet system

JJ · Post by JJ » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:04 pm

I'd like to assemble a small system that will reside in my music practice room where I spend a couple hours a day practicing guitar and keyboards. I'll be using it exclusively for web browsing, playing online Flash tutorials and instructional DVDs. It will run either Linux or Windows XP Pro.

I need something small and very quiet for this application. It will be networked wirelessly, will need just one small hard drive (either 3.5" or 2.5"), and a DVD reader. I'd prefer a dual-core Intel CPU, although it may be a little overkill. I'm sold on dual-core, and want to stick with an Intel CPU. Certainly doesn't have to be the fastest clock speed, though.

I'd prefer a Shuttle-sized case or a very small tower. I'm thinking that I might get away with a passive heatsink on the CPU and then just the PSU fan and a single low speed 120mm case fan.

Either a barebones system + addons, or feel free to list recommendations for components. Thanks!

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:15 am

intel's allendale celeron: 75.00 dollars - E4100 2.0ghz. This is a decently fast chip just low on cache.

Board: Intel DG41TY. It has all the basic connectors and old and dvi out with a decently speedy on board video.

Really, if you want to do this a bit more powerfully, you would want to do an AM2 board, amd it. their graphics chipsets are so far superior, its nuts. and their chips are even cheapr for same or more performance. I wonder though how the E4100 ranks on idle cooling.

For what you want, I would go amd. passive cpu heatsink? I would forgo dual core and go celeron single core. browsing the web worked on my 486dx4/100 mhz machine fine and dandy.

JJ · Post by JJ » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:32 am

Intel E5200 2.5GHz Wolfdale dual-core is only $73.

I'll look further into the AMD graphics chipsets. Thanks for the tip. I'm just getting started researching this build, so I could go any way with it.

System cost isn't the prime concern, but I would like to keep it under $400 w/o monitor. That's looking like it's easily doable.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:38 am

Here's a sample for you from Newegg:

Antec NSK3480
Crucial 2x1GB DDR2 800
WD 320GB
LiteOn DVD
Asus M3A78-EM mATX
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2300
Link to motherboard/CPU combo: combo while it's still on

Comes to $306 and change, not including shipping (around $35). No keyboard/mouse/speakers, those are pretty personal choices plus you may have them already.
Can easily step up the speed ranks on the AMD side, just point their search to desktop->AMD->lowest price and start checking it out. Keep an eye out for the 45W CPUs and you'd be set. If you have any old stock coolers (754/939/AM2) you could get the OEM cpu and save $10.
Went with Crucial ram, only 2GB as you didn't indicate going to a 64bit OS.
Only hiccup could be the onboard video in Linux--seems to still be hit or miss, though the hits are getting more frequent.
I think I'll go try an install with Linux and report back to this thread. Any particular distro you were looking at?
WD 320GB and hope you get the quiet version, I don't know if they ever standardized on the quiet casing or not. With the DVD drive, I just picked a cheap one, I'm not too fussy with my optical drives so if you need a real quiet one I think there's a thread in Silent Storage.

Athlon X2 4850e, 2.5GHz, 45W $53.99 + FS

JJ · Post by JJ » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:57 am

psiu wrote:Here's a sample for you from Newegg:

Thank you very much for the recommendations!

I was also looking at the Antec NSK-3480, so the case is probably a keeper. Yep, 2GB RAM will be plenty. I won't be running VISTA. I'm thinking of probably installing Ubuntu, as I haven't played with Linux much, but I have an unused OEM XP Pro license lying around if that doesn't go well.

So you also prefer an AMD offering? Any particular reason - cooler, better value, better chipsets?

Looking around the forums a bit, it looks like a lot of folks are using the NSK-3480 with just a passive heatsink on the CPU due to the proximity of the 120mm case fan. Any recommendations there on a 3rd party HS?

Thanks again.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:38 pm

Well I ran the Mepis 8 RC live disc, and it handled networking and video fine as far as I could tell. Youtube videos played fine in the live environment.
Couldn't get sound to work--Asus does have a Linux driver download, but while I could download it in the demo user, I couldn't install, and I couldn't download when I relogged in as root, it seemed to restrict space on the invisible ramdisk. Or something. I did take my video card out, and the onboard video performed pretty acceptably on Company of Heroes at 1280x1024, at least in DirectX9 mode...it's DX10 in name only

AMD vs Intel:
The only Intel hardware I have is 2 P3's running as a music server and router/firewall/gateway, and the 8 year old laptop.
I like the new company name: DAAMIT

At my price point they are more affordable, and I certainly enjoy being on the (competitive) underdog's side. Heck that motherboard there is insane for the price! I mean, look at all the stuff!

So I would say value at the lower end is probably better, and the chipsets are certainly up to snuff.

With a 45W cpu, you could probably go passive. Maybe one of the Xigmateks would work nicely there, they seem like maybe the new fave.

Could always try the stock cooler, with as low power as the 45W cpu's are, they aren't going to be getting stressed much at all. Though if you changed later you would probably need to remove the motherboard. Though if you are playing Flash tutorials and practicing guitar and keyboards, I really don't think you'll notice it.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:55 pm

Just ran the COD2 demo with the onboard, and it's okay at 1280x1024. So not too bad at all for onboard graphics, they are certainly usable anyway.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:57 pm

Was looking at hard drives for myself, I think I linked to the 8MB cache model. You would probably want the 16MB cache.

JJ · Post by JJ » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:00 pm

So you're running this board now? What's the difference between the -EM and the -CM models of the M3A78?

I have a few WD 6400AAKS drives on my network right now, so yeah, I was thinking of the 3200AAKS.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:26 am

CM has no HDMI, Firewire, eSATA. Also has the 780V chipset, HD3100 graphics--no Hybrid Crossfire, though. Though I don't think that works on anything other than Vista anyway.

speedkar9 · Post by **speedkar9** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:40 am

JJ wrote:So you're running this board now? What's the difference between the -EM and the -CM models of the M3A78?

I've also got the M3A78-EM board. By far the best board I've bought, and I've even bought it again for a friend's system. Lots of connectors on the back, and a good solid 780G chipset. Too bad the CPU fan is the only header (PWM) that is controlled by Q-fan, but I've resorted to undervolting my fans with resistors.

The EM version features the 780G chipset and includes some more features like express gate, eSATA, firewire and HD 3200 graphics, while the CM has the 780V chipset (essentially a stripped down 780G) and ATI RV610 graphics.

For what you need, I think you can stick with an AMD 4850e (OEM if you can find one), a Xigmatek 1283 passive, 780G board, 2GB Value RAM, a WD 640GB HD, and for optical drives I'd stick with Pioneer and Samsung for speed and quality, and quiet signature. Regarding the case, I had an Earthwatts 380 PSU before and (according to my standards

) it was loud.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:38 am

JJ wrote:Intel E5200 2.5GHz Wolfdale dual-core is only $73.

I'll look further into the AMD graphics chipsets. Thanks for the tip. I'm just getting started researching this build, so I could go any way with it.

System cost isn't the prime concern, but I would like to keep it under $400 w/o monitor. That's looking like it's easily doable.

2.5ghz intel cannot ever be cooled "passively"
ggthnx

mianmian1 · Post by **mianmian1** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:02 am

If you already got a PC and do not require a big screen monitor, I suggest useing a quite netbook instead of a SFF PC.

You can always rip the DVD using you main PC, and load it onto netbook.

The netbook could cost less than $400. And you can move it anywhere!

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:31 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
JJ wrote:Intel E5200 2.5GHz Wolfdale dual-core is only $73.
2.5ghz intel cannot ever be cooled "passively"

I have had a $20 heatsink passively cooling my E5200 running at 3GHz.

Unforunately, the LGA775 platform is horribly power inefficient and slow. AMD K8s (and Radeons) are the way to go for low system power unless you want to live with the limitations of Intel's mobile chips.

Netbooks have quite low performance, and aren't particularly low power (~20W). My $150 Sempron + 740G system when undervolted/underclocked gets near the power consumption of my ASUS Eee PC 1000HA. The netbook uses about half the power at idle, but it can barely play HD videos even when overclocked to 2GHz.

JJ · Post by JJ » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:33 am

Does anyone know for certain whether the Xigmatek 1283 will fit into the NSK-3480 case with the ASUS M3A78-EM motherboard? I've read that the case can cause some fit problems with larger CPU coolers on certain motherboards.

I imagine I'll have to remove the side air duct, but I'll probably be sealing off the side vent anyway.

Cistron · Post by **Cistron** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:20 am

JJ wrote:Does anyone know for certain whether the Xigmatek 1283 will fit into the NSK-3480 case with the ASUS M3A78-EM motherboard? I've read that the case can cause some fit problems with larger CPU coolers on certain motherboards.

I imagine I'll have to remove the side air duct, but I'll probably be sealing off the side vent anyway.

I've used the same cooler on a Gigabyte pendant (side duct removed, panels switched). The direction on the AMD socket will be north south, so I wouldn't worry too much.

baconandeggs · Post by **baconandeggs** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:31 am

ghizz from this thread had the XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 in the case viewtopic.php?p=449733#449733 not sure about the motherboard but i think it should fit. probably best to use the xigmatek lga775 bolt through bracket

Plekto · Post by **Plekto** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:21 pm

Something to try might be this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron
The model you're looking for is the dual core Celeron E1400. this is more than fast enough, yet is low power and can be passively cooled. 512K cache effectively makes it equal to an old Pentium D (two core model from 3-4 years ago) at 2Ghz.

512K vs 1mb cache isn't a deal breaker, IMO. Xbit says 6%% slower speed on average. The E2180 also is a good choice if the word "Celeron" gives you hives or something... :heh:

Drop this into a good HTPC motherboard:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2 ... 126,00.asp
The end result will be a bare board with a giant passive cooler like a Scythe Ninja on it. Maybe one slow exhaust fan or just leave the side of the case open.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article892-page1.html
The same thing on this site. More realistic, imo, since the goal is low power and budget cpu. In fact, this exact setup might be a good shopping list for accessories and drives and so on.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1635/1 ... index.html
It may look weak, but it's going to be fine for any of your intended tasks. Still, there's nothing to keep you from dropping in a standard card with an accelero S1 on it.

Also, there is the option to drop a 8400GS card for $30 in it. This gives you about a 30% gain, which is equal to a 8500GT. The 8500Gt run like this gives no real gain. Why do this? An 8400GS can easily be passively cooled, while the 8500GT cannot.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814121240
Lower heat as as the first review says, 60C at full throttle. AFR trick with the above MB is a bonus.

there is a real use for low-end video cards, still.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/577
They used a 2180 in that review. Here is the E1400 versus that for comparison. Note that they both used an 8500GT as well(which is about as quick as the dual mode 8400GS. *quick version - basically identical for most tasks*

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Power
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You might be able to get away with a picoPSU or something very small and passive there as well. That would give you a one fan design. Minus the PSU, you'd be looking at something with a fan at the top, optimally.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article601-page1.html

You should ask others here, though, I don't know if your specific setup could be run off of just one of these reliably. Though, with just one fan, one laptop drive, and a slot-loading/laptop DVD drive, it's likely to easily work.

Advice wanted on a small, quiet system

Advice wanted on a small, quiet system

A nettop could be sufficient.