Looking for some advice regarding an HTPC/Media Server setup

[JaysonG]

Hi,

I'm currently looking into building a (near) silent, (almost) always-on, HTPC/Media Server to live in my Bedroom. It'll be directly connected to a TV via HDMI and will play HD-DVD/Blu-Ray content, upscale DVDs, download Torrent/Usenet files and generally handle whatever media I throw at it. It'll also have a secondary purpose to serve media to my AV rig in the living room via a Xbox360 or PS3 and relevant software on the server. As well as the software required for the above functions I'm also installing SqueezeCenter onto the server to serve a Squeezebox that floats around my house depending on where I am.

Even though it's not out yet I'm quite keen on building this system around the Ion platform of a Atom N330 and GeForce 9400M. Adding a Pico PSU, a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Drive, a SSD for Apps/OS, a couple of 1TB WD Caviar Greens for media (will RAID 0 increase noise?), a TV Card and some RAM (no additional GFX card).

The real question is will the Pico PSU have enough power to support such a setup and will the system be powerful enough to fulfil my requirements? If it can't, remembering I want this HTPC/Server to be on almost all the time and power consumption is a huge issue, how can I improve the design of my system?

Sorry to make my first post one of many others asking for help/advice hopefully I can contribute something back to forums over the course of this project I'm about to undertake. Thanks for your time.

[jessekopelman]

The real question is will the Pico PSU have enough power to support such a setup

Yes.

and will the system be powerful enough to fulfil my requirements?

Maybe.

remembering I want this HTPC/Server to be on almost all the time and power consumption is a huge issue, how can I improve the design of my system?

The only reason to go with Ion is if you want the tiny form factor (like a Mac Mini). But since you are talking about multiple HDD, you are not going to have that tiny a form factor. Why not build a µATX form factor system using an undervolted AMD X2 processor and an Nvidia 8200 chipset? Undervolted down to around 0.85V, an X2 uses about the same wattage as a dual-core Atom and the production 8200 chipset boards are, if anything, more power efficient than the 9400M implementation in Nvidia's reference board that Anandtech reviewed. The 8200 has exactly the same HD video acceleration as the 9400M -- the only thing you are giving up is 3D performance (for gaming). An undervolted and underclocked X2 is still vastly more powerful than a dual-core Atom. Meanwhile, Ion is not currently available and it's unclear if it will even be offered for retail or at what price. On the other hand, AM2 socket µATX boards are widely available at excellent prices.

[JaysonG]

Thanks for the advice. That certainly helps budget-wise, but isn't their a risk of instability when undervolting a processor? Are the X2's more stable than say the Intel equivalents when undervolted?

[plympton]

Thanks for the advice. That certainly helps budget-wise, but isn't their a risk of instability when undervolting a processor? Are the X2's more stable than say the Intel equivalents when undervolted?

Yes, there is, but in my experience, it's easier to test for than overclocking. You undervolt in .25 steps until you freeze, then bump up 1 or 2 .25v steps, and test with Orthos or Prime95 for a while. I was nervous about it, but making an image of your system before undervolting (prevent corruption - always a potential when you have random crashed, I'd wager), and knowing that undervolting generally can't HURT anything like overclocking can, put me at ease.

I have 3 speeds in my Black Edition 5400+ X2 - 1 GHz, 2 GHz, and 3 GHz, each with their own undervolted voltage - pretty darn stable, I gotta say, and saving at least 20 watts at idle for doing it.

The X2's are "cheap as chips" these days, along with motherboards, so it's tough to not get one. I picked up a 80+ power supply (Earthwatts 380), and an HIS 4670 video card, and have an almost silent HTPC that sips power 24/7.

I idle at 60-65 watts.

Oh yeah, mine is also running SqueezeCenter 24/7, too, and for the WAF, stability of THAT is critical!

-Dan

[jessekopelman]

Are the X2's more stable than say the Intel equivalents when undervolted?

It seems like they are easier to undervolt -- maybe because Cool N'Quiet uses more aggressive undervolting than EIST. It's hard to say, though, as it seems anecdotally that a lot more people buy AMD with an eye towards underclocking than Intel (which is lately know for its great overclocking potential). The reason to go AMD is that at the low end, their CPU are less expensive and you can get much better featured motherboards. For the price of an Nvidia 9300 socket 775 motherboard you can get an Nvidia 8200 socket AM2 motherboard and a low-end X2 CPU!

[JaysonG]

Thanks for the advice, so far I've decided that these are going to be the components going into my HTPC/media server

Motherboard: Asus M3N78-VM
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e
Memory: 2x 2GB DDR2 1066MHz (Kingston, Crucial, Corsair or OCZ doesn't matter)
Hard Drive: 2x 1TB Western Digital Caviar Green Power
Optical Drive: LG GGC-H20L Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Drive
Power Supply: Pico PSU
TV Card: Nebula DigiTV PCI TV card (from old PC)

Look good?

The only issue I have right now is the case, I'm having a nightmare trying to find something big enough to house these components, yet small enough not to look monstrous in my bedroom. If it was living underneath the 46" LCD in the living room I'd be more relaxed about size. But I really need to pack this all it to as small a form as possible while hopefully retaining the HTPC look. I'd definitely buy a new low profile TV Card if the right case came along or just buy a smaller backplate as the card is already half-sized.

Something like the mCubed HFX Mini-Metal would have been brilliant if it didn't cost a small fortune and if I could find a slot loading Combi drive. I got so desperate I was considering getting a SilverStone TJ08, but even if I bought an IR Receiver for the 3.5" bay and a VFD to go in the 5.25" bay, I dunno, I think it would just feel like a PC.

Until I find a case, I can't really decide on how the system is going to be cooled either, I've also held off on getting an SSD until I know how much the case is going to cost and if it would have enough room for an extra drive (I'm also tempted to wait for Intel's X-25M to drop in price too).

Anyone know of any low-profile µATX media cases with at least 2 3.5" bays, a full size external 5.25" bay and that aren't so big you can stick a full ATX mobo inside? Maybe a SFF desktop?

Thanks.

EDIT: For the right case I may possibly (only possibly! ) risk all my data on one of those new fangled 2TB WD Green Power Drives that I hear the astronauts are using.

[JaysonG]

Hi back again,
So I found this

Lian Li PC-C37B
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1194.html

I think this might be the one... I may have to mod the TV card or buy a new one. But that's a sufficient price to pay IMO.

Just a few questions regarding power and cooling.
Is there a low profile PCI bracket available for the Pico PSU?
Is there some sort of grill available to fill the hole left by the now absent ATX PSU?
Finally what is the best kind of cooling I could fit into a case that size (I suppose posting on SPCR makes it a given) considering I want minimal noise?

Thanks again.

[QuietOC]

Are the X2's more stable than say the Intel equivalents when undervolted?

It seems like they are easier to undervolt -- maybe because Cool N'Quiet uses more aggressive undervolting than EIST. It's hard to say, though, as it seems anecdotally that a lot more people buy AMD with an eye towards underclocking than Intel (which is lately know for its great overclocking potential).

The lowest power Intel chipset is the 90nm G33/ICH9 is ~6.75W idle. AMD's 55nm 780G/SB700 is<2W Idle. The 740G is even lower power.

AMDs can go down to 4x multiplier, Intel is limited to 6x
Intel needs 400MHz FSB to match AMDs memory bandwidth.

Minimum Idle Speeds
4x200MHz = 800MHz AMD
6x400MHz = 2400MHz Intel
6x200MHz = 1200MHz Intel (with half the bandwidth)

EIST on my E7200 defines two VIDs 1.1250V and 1.1125V. These are the only voltages that work with CrystalCPUID/RMClock. It is almost impossible to undervolt and overclock dynamically.

AMD allows at least down to 0.800V VID from the default voltage (1.4V or so) with Cool'n'Quiet using CrystalCPUID/RMClock. The "G2" 65nm AMD K8s can run at ~1.6GHz @ 0.800V. It is easy to both overclock and undervolt dynamically with AMD.

[JaysonG]

Hi,

I'm currently looking into building a (near) silent, (almost) always-on, HTPC/Media Server to live in my Bedroom. It'll be directly connected to a TV via HDMI and will play HD-DVD/Blu-Ray content, upscale DVDs, download Torrent/Usenet files and generally handle whatever media I throw at it. It'll also have a secondary purpose to serve media to my AV rig in the living room via a Xbox360 or PS3 and relevant software on the server. As well as the software required for the above functions I'm also installing SqueezeCenter onto the server to serve a Squeezebox that floats around my house depending on where I am.

Even though it's not out yet I'm quite keen on building this system around the Ion platform of a Atom N330 and GeForce 9400M. Adding a Pico PSU, a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Drive, a SSD for Apps/OS, a couple of 1TB WD Caviar Greens for media (will RAID 0 increase noise?), a TV Card and some RAM (no additional GFX card).

The real question is will the Pico PSU have enough power to support such a setup and will the system be powerful enough to fulfil my requirements? If it can't, remembering I want this HTPC/Server to be on almost all the time and power consumption is a huge issue, how can I improve the design of my system?

Sorry to make my first post one of many others asking for help/advice hopefully I can contribute something back to forums over the course of this project I'm about to undertake. Thanks for your time.

Hi me again!

I've had a nightmare sourcing some of the parts for the rig I've been trying to build.

In the end I've had to compromise and go for this.
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E7600
Heatsink: Megahalems + Noctua NF-P12 w/ AS5
RAM: Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 1066MHz CL5
HDD: Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green
Optical Drive: LG GGC-H20L
Case: Antec Mini P180 w/ Standard Fans
PSU: Corsair 450W HX PSU

Does this look fine for the above spec? Any changes or improvements you'd make?

Think biggest annoyance was moving from a 45w TDP CPU (5050e) to a 65w one but hopefully I'll enjoy the added speed although now I've made the step up. Was I wrong in not getting a E8400 or would that have been overkill?

[kosmonautbruce]

Wow, you really went away from small/HTPC-ish build with the mini-180. Have you thought about the NSK2480? The only thing you would need to change is away from the Megahalem, and probably put a mini-Ninja, or maybe a Shuriken/Zipang instead, and it would look *far* more home theaterish than the mini-180, imo.

[ilovejedd]

Think biggest annoyance was moving from a 45w TDP CPU (5050e) to a 65w one but hopefully I'll enjoy the added speed although now I've made the step up. Was I wrong in not getting a E8400 or would that have been overkill?

Nah, the Wolfdale Core 2 Duo's are pretty low power. At stock volts, they probably consume around the same as 45W AMD processors at idle. Heck, I got lower idle power when I switched to a 65W Pentium Dual-Core E5200 as opposed to when I was using a 35W Celeron 430. As for overkill, if you were fine with the ION or the AMD 5050e, there really is no reason why an E7600 wouldn't be fast enough. So far, I haven't found any mainstream videos that my combination of E5200+ATI HD4550 wouldn't play (Hulu HD plays fine, btw, without hardware acceleration). Besides, the higher you go, the higher your power consumption goes, too.

[JaysonG]

Wow, you really went away from small/HTPC-ish build with the mini-180. Have you thought about the NSK2480? The only thing you would need to change is away from the Megahalem, and probably put a mini-Ninja, or maybe a Shuriken/Zipang instead, and it would look *far* more home theaterish than the mini-180, imo.

Heh yeah I assumed the mini was smaller than it was My face when the guy gave me the box was classic After I got it home I realised I had nowhere to actually put a HTPC case so a tower actually works out for the better, another positive is I'll have less worries about temperature with the Mini-180 now.

Thanks for the comments/advice guys really appreciate it, any more opinions are more than welcome.