Cost-no-object quiet PC

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Rdna
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Cost-no-object quiet PC

Post by Rdna » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:08 am

Hello everyone!

I have thanks to this website built a very quiet home PC in an Antec P182, so I am quite familiar with how to build a resonably economical silent computer. Recently the opportunity arose for me to build for my company the most extreme quiet computer money can buy. Of course the budget is not COMPLETELY unlimited, but under five figures in US dollars would be fine.

At first I was looking at completely fanless systems such as the Zalman TNN 500AF, but since that model is no longer made (and also has a few other problems such as the power supply probably being to weak for a modern system) I am currently looking at other options.

The priorities for the system are the following:

1) Asus Striker 2 motherboard with a Core 2 Quad (required)
2) Gaming graphics card (suggestions welcome!)
3) As little fabrication as possible - unmodified components are preferred unless the gains are huge.
4) Lowest noise possible under the above conditions
5) Eye-catching design

...

11) Price

I have been looking at the Zalman Reserator XT, but according to several reviews this newest version is not as quiet as the predecessors? Something similar to the TN 500AF would of course be preferred as it would be completely quiet (with SSD discs of course), look extreme and require no modification.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

LodeHacker
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Post by LodeHacker » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:47 am

I think it's impossible to find a high end gaming graphics card which could work well with a passive cooling solution (assuming you get a ZALMAN TNN you are tied to the cooling performance of the heat pipes ZALMAN has integrated into the TNN for the graphics card).

So what kind of graphics heavy games you have? It would give me a better idea of what type of gaming card to recommend. Think GeForce 9/8 series vs GeForce GTX.

Going for a ZALMAN TNN is overkill I think, even if the aim was to make a 0dBA silent system. Not only is the TNN big and bulky, it's HEAVY. It is possible to make a very quiet PC with pretty much regular stuff. I assume you want to get as near 0dBA as possible.

If you're getting a Core 2 Quad then make sure to buy a model that is much more expensive than what you initially wanted to buy. Then, lower the FSB clock drastically and undervolt the CPU (if it is possible with my ASUS Workstation motherboard it must be possible with the Striker). This way you can have the CPU put out much less heat. Note that GPU volt modding is not of much benefit and it can cause damage to the GPU.

You want eye catching design but you also say you want the ZALMAN TNN. I really don't know which part of "eye catching design" I misunderstood :D

lm
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Post by lm » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:52 am

The PC will not be the bottleneck of noise using only a part of this budget. So you should spend part of the money making the environment quiet also? Or is this already taken care of?

yensteel
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Post by yensteel » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:10 am

The TNN 500AF sprang in my mind when I read the title, but it's too outdated and ineffective for a fast and quiet pc.

A Mac Pro is pretty quiet as well...Maybe not quiet enough...
Last edited by yensteel on Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

CyberDog
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Post by CyberDog » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:44 am

I would suggest watercooling... I try to build tomorrow you a example set with all the parts... If I remember and can with my hangover...

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:58 am

You would need all aluminum water blocks

you would get 2 zalman water cooling reserators.

you could somehow use a 4870 1gb and a i7 920 chip and 6 gigs ram system

if you xfire, then you use 2 wc towers. Or, if you use a 4890 and find an aluminum waterblock, use 1 tower for cpu and 1 for video card and oc them both like 20%.

There is also a new silent psu out that does 400 watts. spcr reviewed it. is it a sparkle?

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Post by FartingBob » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:39 am

Why would a work PC need a superpowerful, silent gaming rig?
I suggest making a powerful PC, sticking it somewhere far away from the end user so they cant hear it. Seems like the easier and cheaper option rather than watercooling the whole thing.

shleepy
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Post by shleepy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:52 pm

I'd definitely go for an i7 system if you're saying that you want to spend up to $9999. Sell that Striker 2 and get yourself an Rampage II Extreme, or something like that.

For an easy-to-cool graphics card, HD4890 might be a good choice, but you would want to pair it with an Accelero S1.

For your "as little fabrication as possible," I'm hoping that you'd be OK with replacing the video card heatsink? If not you'll be stuck with something like one specific HD4850 model as the highest-end passively-cooled video card.

If you want SSD's, you can always get yourself 8x Intel X-25's in RAID 0+1, hehe. :twisted: Just make sure to also get a nice RAID card (mine is 3ware 9690SA-8I, for example) for maximum bandwidth.

If you want to go with air cooling, you should go with a giant Thermalright or Scythe heatsink for the CPU. You will need a big case like Antec P183, perhaps. Use one of the SPCR-recommended heatsinks (maybe the 450W no-fan Silverstone, though it wouldn't be ideal for use in a separate lower chamber like P183). Put in a couple of Nexus or Scythe fans, maybe a fan controller or 2, and you'll be set.

Rdna
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Post by Rdna » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:21 am

Thank you for all the replies so far! I promise I'll take pictures of the finished system once it's done and show you what I got :)
LodeHacker wrote:Going for a ZALMAN TNN is overkill I think, even if the aim was to make a 0dBA silent system. Not only is the TNN big and bulky, it's HEAVY.
Actually those are all factors in favor of the TNN. The computer is supposed to be a showpiece and the more extreme it is the better. We are also building a computer that is optimized for extreme performance so the gimmick of this one is that it's silent :)
The PC will not be the bottleneck of noise using only a part of this budget. So you should spend part of the money making the environment quiet also? Or is this already taken care of?
Nope. The computer be sold once it's no longer on display. I hope the person who buys it has an anechoic chamber to put it in ;)
I'd definitely go for an i7 system if you're saying that you want to spend up to $9999. Sell that Striker 2 and get yourself an Rampage II Extreme, or something like that.
The Striker has been donated and has to be part of the computer, unfortunately. I would have also prefered to build an i7 system :)
For your "as little fabrication as possible," I'm hoping that you'd be OK with replacing the video card heatsink?
Definitely, as long as it requires a minimum of cutting and grinding. But as I said, if it's just minor modifications I'm fine with it (only not that good at it ;))
If you want SSD's, you can always get yourself 8x Intel X-25's in RAID 0+1, hehe. Twisted Evil Just make sure to also get a nice RAID card (mine is 3ware 9690SA-8I, for example) for maximum bandwidth.
Definitely RAID; maybe only four SSD's. We're also thinking of putting a RAM drive in there for ultra-quick temp storage, if we can only figure out how to cool everything properly and quietly. Needless to say, storage will not be the bottleneck of this computer ;)

relitz
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Post by relitz » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:37 am

If I were in your shoes, and I really wish I was right now, I'd go for watercooling with a few lowspeed fans on the radiators. Granted it will not be 0dB, but it will be very quiet. As for the pump in the system, you could probably slap some (read: A LOT) of foam around it and that should be getting that noise out of the way too.

LodeHacker
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Post by LodeHacker » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:46 am

If you want a sexy case why not look into the Cooler Master Cosmos? A few mods and it will be perfect for ultra silent gaming. If you want to be sure you are extreme though then get an NVIDIA and not ATI. It's the "preferred" graphics solution (or that is what all my gamer friends say :P )

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:49 am

LodeHacker wrote:If you want a sexy case why not look into the Cooler Master Cosmos? A few mods and it will be perfect for ultra silent gaming. If you want to be sure you are extreme though then get an NVIDIA and not ATI. It's the "preferred" graphics solution (or that is what all my gamer friends say :P )
nvidia sorta is in ways. however it does have defective chips.

and it costs more.

optimally, i think the 260 216's are the way to go wattage wise. they perform great. one could get an sli x58 board and use two of these for a LOT of power yet not huge draw on idle.

If I was on a phenomII platform, and had am3 board, I would always go ati.

Rdna
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Post by Rdna » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:59 am

relitz wrote:If I were in your shoes, and I really wish I was right now, I'd go for watercooling with a few lowspeed fans on the radiators. Granted it will not be 0dB, but it will be very quiet. As for the pump in the system, you could probably slap some (read: A LOT) of foam around it and that should be getting that noise out of the way too.
That is actually what I'm leaning towards right now. The Zalman Reserator XT according to most reviews has a pump that is practically silent, but the 140 mm fan is a bit loud at higher settings. I was thinking about using this water cooling system but with a different fan, or modifying the fan to work at a slower speed.

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:37 am

reserator tower is better than the XT

Zalman engineer team informed me of this!

theysaid to buy the little fan helmet thing that goes on top. Discontinuing the res2 and XT.

strange eh? XT has been reviewed favorably however.

Moogles
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Post by Moogles » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:51 pm

For that kind of money I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck with a Cosmos or similar generic chassis - I would have something custom built. I've been drooling over http://www.atechfabrication.com's stuff for a while now, maybe you should check them out. I'm certain they could build you a case similar to the TNN500 without any of its notorious drawbacks. At a price of course. :)

Alternatively you could look into importing a Soldam case from Japan, of course these come at a significant premium as well. http://soldam.co.jp/

Everything else seems kind of generic to me, but maybe I'm jaded. :)

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:01 am

the heat sink case one rocks.

That's the way I would go. even if you need an ultra slow moving fan inside for a more gaming lifestyle.

Rdna
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Post by Rdna » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:54 am

Moogles wrote:For that kind of money I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck with a Cosmos or similar generic chassis - I would have something custom built. I've been drooling over http://www.atechfabrication.com's stuff for a while now, maybe you should check them out. I'm certain they could build you a case similar to the TNN500 without any of its notorious drawbacks. At a price of course. :)
Perfect! Thank you, I will definitely look into this.

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:33 am

I also like those "heatsync" cases, prety exotic looking too. One of the larger ones might be able to handle a quad along with a hd4850/9800gtx. Or you could go for a gtx260 as long as the stock cooler is quiet enough for you.
Some of Silverstone`s larger models are popular with custom system, I would prefer a Lian Li though, they have some neat looking models even though they`re not the quietest ones because of their low weight. I would go for aircooling unless a high end vga is used.

CyberDog
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Post by CyberDog » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:49 am

Hi. Sorry that I haven't made that watercooling setup... But it probably won't suit you because it will require some fabrication...

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Post by cmthomson » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:13 pm

Bah! Since heat-pipe based heat sinks have become widely available, water cooling has become irrelevant. [Heat pipes are water cooling, but with evaporation instead of conduction: 540x more efficient.]

For quiet cooling, you will need to replace the stock CPU and GPU heat sinks with aftermarket coolers. I recommend the Xigmatek 1283 and Accelero S1. Both need a bit of air flow; the gentle breeze of some Nexus 12cm fans is lots...

I'm not sure how much "eye candy" you want versus quiet efficient cooling. If bling is uppermost, then you'll want LED fans, transparent case panels, etc. But if quiet efficient cooling is more important, then a P180/182 case with the above heat sinks and fans will astonish nearly everyone who's paying attention. They won't be able to hear it at all.

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:34 pm

cmthomson wrote:Bah! Since heat-pipe based heat sinks have become widely available, water cooling has become irrelevant. [Heat pipes are water cooling, but with evaporation instead of conduction: 540x more efficient.]
do you realize the heat capacity of a heatpipe is like next to nothing compared to a gallon of pure water?

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Post by cmthomson » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:51 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
cmthomson wrote:Bah! Since heat-pipe based heat sinks have become widely available, water cooling has become irrelevant. [Heat pipes are water cooling, but with evaporation instead of conduction: 540x more efficient.]
do you realize the heat capacity of a heatpipe is like next to nothing compared to a gallon of pure water?
Of course I do. Capacity is not the issue in a modern system, since only 100-200 watts need to be moved. A decent CPU cooler can dissipate 150W into a light breeze, and a good GPU cooler can do almost as well, certainly close to 100W.

The point is that heat transfer from the chip to the outside world is now dominated by the path from the chip to the cooling fluid, not from the cooling fluid to the room air.

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Post by thepwner » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:41 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
cmthomson wrote:Bah! Since heat-pipe based heat sinks have become widely available, water cooling has become irrelevant. [Heat pipes are water cooling, but with evaporation instead of conduction: 540x more efficient.]
do you realize the heat capacity of a heatpipe is like next to nothing compared to a gallon of pure water?
Ya but if you're looking at capacity...

I mean the actual amount of water in a gallon as compared to 1 heatpipe...a gallon of air has a higher heat capacity than 1 heatpipe probably...

As for my suggestion, for graphics card do 1 of these.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814143169

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814125258

And rig the case with a bunch of quiet Noctuas or Scythe Slip streams. O ya, and don't forget to take the graphics card heatsink off and replace the thermal paste with AS5 (I use Tuniq TX2, it performs better than AS5)

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:03 pm

the heat capacity is what makes watercooling so great. The water passing by sucks up a lot of heat and moves it out in mass at a remote location.

I do like the idea of heatpipes, and I would optimally shun WC setups for always a simpler setup. however, the heatsinks heat up the case, increase ambient temps. I open my e8400 with 3870 case and the inside metal is cold to the touch. I have no AC in my room, its warm out today, and my comp never is turned off. My hd temps dropped 5-7 degrees C by removing all the heat to the outside.

I really wish they would make more long heatpipe designs that allowed one to make like 2 foot by 6 inch blocks of pure heatsink to be attached to case and like all the pipes stuck to it. The TNN is more money than 2 watercooling setups so thats kinda out, plus its so hard to upgrade those pre-built concepts.

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