Ancient PC needs upgrade!

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:24 pm

Hello to all SPCR members,

It's summer, but it also rains every other day in Finland so I thought I would finally put my rig to a new level. I'm on a tight budget, but that doesn't mean I won't be bidding for stuff on eBay. Main reason for upgrade is to get this PC eat less watts (or give more bang for the watt) and to get it more quiet.

Current components:

Motherboard: ASUS P5K Workstation - http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=IEpAMtb7xd4wkajF
PSU: Nexus NX-8040 400W - http://www.nexustek.nl/nx8040_80plus_mo ... supply.htm
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (B2 stepping) - http://processorfinder.intel.com/detail ... Spec=SL9SA
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS (G98) - http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=NamCbx9IwqvXUIog
RAM: 2x1GB Kingston HyperX 1066Mhz CL5 - http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX8500D2K2_2GN.pdf
Storage: Samsung SpinPoint F1 320GB SATA - http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... del_cd=238
CD/DVD: Samsung Super-Writemaster 22X SATA - http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/deta ... S223Q/BEBN
TV tuner: ASUS My Cinema-P7131 Hybrid - http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=1tlsAVXBvKnxbE29

The story of my PC... (you may freely skip this if you want)

My PC is sort of an "all-in-one". If family / friends need photos or videos edited or it's the usual Saturday evening for watching a movie, it's my PC that gets the job. For this I wanted to choose a motherboard that offers a vast amount of different I/O options and the ASUS P5K WS seemed like the best choice. The modular PSU design got me excited enough to go and buy one, and I must say the Nexus has done an excellent job. At the time I bought this PC the Intel Core 2 line was just launched, but all models were so expensive that I opted for the cheapest, the E6300. My other choice would have been an expensive Pentium D, but I am happy I didn't go for that route and to be honest the 1.86Ghz my Core 2 puts out is very fine and I've yet found a real reason to get something faster so my aim is to find something more efficient. I was a really addicted PC gamer and upgraded my graphics card very often, almost on a regular basis every 2 months or so for my gaming needs! I finally decided to stop gaming though as it affected my social life negatively and I have more important things to concentrate on (school, family, new girlfriend..). I still do play occasionally and if/when I play then a flash game at Nitrome or Miniclip. Basing on my decision I simply wanted a cheap graphics card, but playback of HD content was slightly problematic on my PC so I had a look at graphics cards with the ability to decode HD content in hardware and with the release of VDPAU for Linux, the 8400GS was an excellent choice for my PC. Initially this PC was used for audio recording and processing exclusively, a procedure using RAM intensively. Blindly believing what an audio software company told me I bought fast RAM in favor of more, but slower RAM. 2GB is plenty for me and I never had an issue with too little available RAM or so, but I think that I could have saved some money as the difference of RAM speed in relation to audio processing performance is moot. For storage the Samsung is excellent as it has beat my previous Seagate in terms of performance and noise. 320GB is way more than I will ever need, though. The CD/DVD drive from Samsung does an excellent job and is fairly quiet when playing back a DVD movie. It does support LightScribe and all this stuff, but I've never had the excitement to try these things out; I mean a CD/DVD is used for reading/burning CDs and DVDs, nothing more and nothing less. Finally, the TV tuner. After one year of researching video processing and owning at least twenty different TV cards I settled on the ASUS. The Philips processor on it has dual 9-bit ADCs for digitizing analog video, which allow me to capture video in high quality from analog sources (usually from VCR). In addition to analog capture I use the ASUS to watch digital TV and the picture quality is better than on most other TV cards I've seen. In case someone wondered that there's no discrete audio solution, then you are not completely wrong. I decided to buy a high end external DAC instead of fighting through software issues with delicate sound cards. Luckily the integrated HD audio controller can output bit-perfect S/PDIF to my DAC and there have been no issues so far. Since I bought hardware exclusively for audio recording and processing, there is no need for a dedicated audio solution in this PC. At any case my PC has served me well, but I think it is finally the time to upgrade certain parts of it in order to boost productivity/efficiency and so have everyone benefit from the upgrade.

Plans for upgrade:

1. More efficient CPU.
My current CPU is plenty fast, but I would like to have something more efficient. I am thinking of 45nm CPUs as they are supported by my motherboard. Any recommendations?

2. Better CPU cooler.
Currently I have a ZALMAN CNPS-7000C. It is challenging to cool my CPU with this while trying to keep it inaudible. I am hoping to cross the line and go passive with a more efficient CPU.

3. Quieter HDD or SSD
The Samsung, even if suspended, is unfortunately still quite noisy. I am seeking for a 2.5" HDD or a cheap SSD. Ideally the performance of this new HDD should be enough to edit a couple of family videos in standard definition. Also the HDD should not become a bottleneck when doing light multitasking.

4. Quieter PSU or picoPSU
The Nexus is doing an excellent job, but unfortunately it vibrates too much. Any quieter PSU alternative? Doesn't need to be modular and I am willing to mod the PSU to have fewer cables! If my PC is suitable to use with a picoPSU though I'll be ready to adopt it. The only problem will be finding a usable power brick.

Last, but not least...

Although I'm not upgrading much of my current PC, please feel free to recommend me an alternative for hardware I already own. Due to a tight budget though I really prefer recycling as much of my current components as possible. Please do ask for any details as the PC is serving a whole community here; in addition to me there is my family and friends, which makes up a rather large group of people. By the way, you might have noticed that all my expansion cards are of low profile form factor. In fact my room is very well ventilated, but my PC has very restricted air intakes and as a way to have air circulating more efficiently I started looking for low profile components. If I'm not totally paranoid the use of low profile components helped the air circulate in my PC case up to 50% more efficiently (number totally fictitious).

Thank you in advance!

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:06 pm

if you need more cpu power, the zalman is the weakest link... if your case size supports it, i'd put a scythe mugen 2 in there, it'll be quieter, in part because of the fan

that will allow you to overclock, without spending $$$ on a faster cpu... overclocking is the best bang for the buck there is.

according to xbitlabs, the scythe orochi has 20% less fin space, but since the fins are spaced more widely apart, it makes for a better passive cooler... but only up to a certain point... the only cooler that's better is that monster deal from thermalright, but it's expensive, and not everybody carries it.

modern one terabyte hdds are quieter than the old small drives.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:42 pm

agreed on most of danimal's points -- but stay away from orochi. Too big & heavy.

Changing to a 45nm C2D will not save much power. They're still 65W TDP, tho they might idle a couple watts lower.

I'd go for a 60gb OCZ Vertex & use the existing Samsung as an external USM/eSATA storage drive, turning it on only when needed. Another alternative is a 30gb Vertex for OS/programs + 500gb 5400rpm 2.5" suspended -- WD Blue will work nicely.

Finally for the PSU -- just replace the fan with a quieter one. But if you want higher efficiency, an 80+ Bronze or Silver model ~400W will save you probably 5-15W depending on load. Or as you say, a picoPSU w/a ~150W brick. That should save you 10-20W and be silent.

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:00 am

Thanks for the help so far,

Maybe a misunderstanding here? I don't want/need more CPU power, so won't gain anything from overclocking. I want a more efficient CPU or in other terms a CPU with similar or identical performance to my current one, but with better thermal properties. This will be in direct relation to what type of cooler I am going to use and I have had those 1U passive all-copper heat sinks in mind; a Scythe Ninja/Orochi is out of question.

I am addicted to undervolting/underclocking and am thinking about getting a fast CPU then let it run at a lower voltage and clock and so the CPU will produce much less heat making it the ideal candidate for passive cooling in my system where air circulation is fairly slow.

I understand that SSDs are delicate hardware at this point, but am not really willing to invest in the OCZ Vertex series. They definitely cost too much for my budget and 60GB is starting to feel like a bit too little. The WD Blue only sounds like a nice option to me and I understand that areal density makes it perform nice, but what about the 160GB Scorpio Blue? Will it provide me the necessary performance for editing family videos in standard definition (for example an hour of video material from miniDV)?

I'm starting to get extremely excited about the picoPSU. However I can not find a silent 150W power brick anywhere. Most bricks have a fan, which ultimately destroy the purpose of the picoPSU in the first place, no?

Thanks in advance!

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:51 am

A 1U heatsink is only passive because it has no room for a fan. In a 1U server case where these these are designed to be used, such 1U heatsinks barely fit, and the fins are oriented front-to-back to allow airflow through. There are half a dozen extremely high speed 40mm fans in the middle of the iU case that produce more airflow than you can imagine coming from such a tiny thing -- at a screaming noise level that makes my head numb in a minute or two. I know because I'm working on another 1U server for SPCR right now. It's out of the question to run such a heatsink fanless in a normal case.

To run a CPU/case fanless (or even w/very low airflow), you need a big heatsink with huge surface area and decent spacing between them. Hence the Ninja recommendation.

re - 2.5" drive: Go to the 500gb if you want the best performance.

Power brick -- there are lots of fanless big ones. Look on ebay. here's another-

Finally, you might want to consider this system for ideas and approaches:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Single_Mo ... stone_TJ08

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:31 am

Mike believe me I know what I am talking about when it comes to server systems. In fact I have bought a special PC for audio processing exclusively and it's a 2U rackmount. No 40mm fans though, liquid cooling is used and it's all made as a custom order by an audio hardware retailer. Too bad is that there is a special lock on the back of the PC so I can't access it, and opening the case will void my warranty anyway so don't want to tinker with it any more than use it for audio only

At any case it's Xeon based and if I'm not completely misinformed it's a 45W model.

Back on topic though, you are right about the fins of a 1U heat sink; even a fan blowing on it won't be helping there much. The reason I am avoiding the Ninja or any other massive cooler is he fact that the PC will be rebuilt into a HTPC case. My best bet is to go semi-passive; using a heat sink with a replaceable 120mm fan for example. I just know that my Nexus 120mm fans are practically inaudible @7V or so. It's the ball bearing on the ZALMAN that makes the noise, because the type of noise I refer to is not there with sleeve bearing fans. I think you lectured me about this already

Will go with the WD Blue 500GB then. Can you answer a quick question though? Compared to the 160GB model how much faster in sequential file reading is the 500GB model? I've tried to find the information through Google, but a lot of reviews don't include the WD1600BEVT. Thanks in advance!

About the power brick, will search on eBay but then again is there any specific things to watch for as I want a reliable brick and shipping internationally can take several weeks so if my power brick was to go south I don't want to wait half a month to get my PC running again. Of course for those situations I could hack out an old ATX PSU, but I think you get the idea of how inconvenient it would be.

Thanks again!
- Lode

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:00 pm

CPU - any 45nm Core 2 Duo will provide more horsepower than your e6300. So, buy an e5200 and undervolt it. Looks like you can get Vcore down in the 0.925V range. If it's too fast

you can always underclock it.

flyingsherpa · Post by **flyingsherpa** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:34 pm

If a C2D is an ancient PC, what is my athlon XP?

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:22 pm

LodeHacker wrote:Will go with the WD Blue 500GB then. Can you answer a quick question though? Compared to the 160GB model how much faster in sequential file reading is the 500GB model? I've tried to find the information through Google, but a lot of reviews don't include the WD1600BEVT. Thanks in advance!

Thanks again!
- Lode

I think the 640GB would be better--denser platters, newer tech, confirmed to be quiet.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:45 pm

Intel E5x00 or E7x00 coupled with Xigmatek HDT-S1283 + crossbow ( or Xigmatek clone ) would offer quite good horsepower per watt and S1283 can cool Intel 45nm Dual cores passively.

I also agree with psius sugggestion of 640GB WD.

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:12 am

Okay great, will look into the E5200! But hey what is this 640GB drive you talk about? I can't seem to find it here http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=506 unless you mean 3.5" WD6400AAKS which I did not like viewtopic.php?t=52479. The Xigmatek looks nice, maybe I'll reconsider the case for the PC so it can fit one of those bigger heat sinks, but how does the Xigmatek compare to the TRUE?

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:34 am

LodeHacker wrote:Okay great, will look into the E5200! But hey what is this 640GB drive you talk about? I can't seem to find it here http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=506 unless you mean 3.5" WD6400AAKS which I did not like viewtopic.php?t=52479. The Xigmatek looks nice, maybe I'll reconsider the case for the PC so it can fit one of those bigger heat sinks, but how does the Xigmatek compare to the TRUE?

TRUE is much better if you strap a high speed fan to it. Xigmatek is better passive and a lot cheaper

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:07 am

There are no 2.5" 640gb drives right now. They must be referring to the 3.5" dual disk 640gb. The 500gb 2.5" 5400rpm is considerably quieter. A Samsung 5400rpm single-platter 500gb Ecodrive is extremely quiet, btw.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:08 am

Ha. I thought that was you who had a bum WD6400AAKS. That's the one. Could always try another sample, or go bigger. WD has just gone back and added Blue (Black/Green) designations across the line, so it doesn't really mean they are the newer tech. I saw an 80GB "Blue" drive at Newegg the other day

I thought the Samsung was inaudible?

edit: you could always go for an SSD, maybe with a big quiet storage drive (in an enclosure?) for your upgrade.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:10 am

MikeC wrote:There are no 2.5" 640gb drives right now. They must be referring to the 3.5" dual disk 640gb. The 500gb 2.5" 5400rpm is considerably quieter. A Samsung 5400rpm single-platter 500gb Ecodrive is extremely quiet, btw.

Listen to ^ that man. He gets to play with all these different drives.

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:49 am

psiu wrote:Ha. I thought that was you who had a bum WD6400AAKS. That's the one. Could always try another sample, or go bigger. WD has just gone back and added Blue (Black/Green) designations across the line, so it doesn't really mean they are the newer tech. I saw an 80GB "Blue" drive at Newegg the other day

I thought the Samsung was inaudible?

edit: you could always go for an SSD, maybe with a big quiet storage drive (in an enclosure?) for your upgrade.

Inaudible till I upgraded to even more quiet components (in particular going for silent graphics card).