Best silent case for a positive pressure system?

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 am

Hello everyone!

I'm in the middle of a week-long dilemma right now. I'm trying to find the perfect computer case for me, something I know I won't need or even wish to replace in the foreseeable future (10 years maybe?). And I want it perfect, but I don't know what would be my best choice right now.

So, basically, what I need are experiences and recommendations.

I want it silent, that's the topmost requirement. That's why I am here.

I want it dust-free, which drives me to a positive pressure system. I've been running one for a few months and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. I even plan to get better filters (these: http://www.demcifilter.com/positive_pressure.htm) so that even fine dust doesn't build up much. They actually make the whole setup more manageable, since I won't need to open the case once a week just to clean the filters.

Of course, I don't want to burn any internal components, so I've already got good heatsinks to compensate for reduced airflow (and they do work very well).

I'm always "function precedes form", but thinking about the long-term, I don't want an ugly case. I simply love the minimalistic design of the P182 Black! And its front door! (it keeps toddlers and even the cleaning lady from accidentally touching the power button, not to mention dampening the noise of a DVD/Blu-ray drive in operation)

But...

... it doesn't seem well fit for positive pressure. The location of the PSU - remarkably good for a negative pressure system - should make cooling more inefficient in this case, since hot air blown out at the bottom would be picked by the (reversed) intake rear fan right above it.

But still, the neat design...!

Oh, and that top vent seems evil. Noise from inside the case should exit it and reach me directly, since the case will sit on the floor. That defeats front door's purpose of deflecting noise.

For function and similar form, another choice would be the Antec SOLO Black (http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/pcdep ... 51337.html) which, by the way, seems to be available only in the Japanese market (amazon.co.jp has it available too).

In fact, ideally, I would combine the exterior of the P182 (minimalistic black finish, front door) with the interior of the SOLO (air flow, location of intake fans, compatibility with a variety of PSUs).

Other factors I'm taking in account include the trends toward higher power consumption, higher heat production, and SSDs eventually replacing HDDs (so the elastic bands on the SOLO would be an overkill a few years from now).

What do you guys think? Can I buy the P182 and adapt it to perform well under positive pressure? Or is the SOLO the way to go for the long-term?

pulse · Post by **pulse** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:38 am

Hi,

If you like the look of the P182 I think you should also check out the Lian Li PC-B25B.

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:36 pm

Thanks pulse!

Indeed, the looks are awesome on the outside! The front door is just perfect too! Makes me immediately call it "simple" and "powerful".

(I'm not particularly very fond of the diamond design of the side panels, but I could live with it.)

The only major problem I see with it is the fact that it is made of aluminum, which is much less dense and would certainly need some dampening. Some may argue that it is lighter (and indeed, transporting it should be easier), but weight itself helps absorbing noise (my topmost concern). It could be worked out a bit, but it would never perform so well.

In fact, that conclusion was already voiced here: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/ ... i_pc-b25/4

(Note: no, I wouldn't buy the heavy, huge and overly-expensive Zalman TNN500AF or the TNN300. Those are totally exaggerated.)

(Do I sound too bossy? I wish I had the case available for a personal review... but this stuff is rare in Brazil.)

Moreover, how can I easily add and remove filters from the front fans? The first picture here

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?o ... mitstart=2

suggests there is not enough room to fit a removable magnetically-attached filter like the DEMCiFilters I've mentioned. They would not even cover the whole vent properly (even if customized), and since it is aluminum, they wouldn't attach, requiring the addition of adhesive magnets, making it hard to believe that the front door would close properly...

Too bad for such a good looking case... But I've taken note and I'll definitely consider it. Thanks again!

lb_felipe · Post by **lb_felipe** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:21 am

Hi, Brazil's friend!

Have you thought about a SilverStone RAVEN RV02 SST-RV02B-W (black + window) yet?

The Mike Chin lets drop that it is as good as SilverStone RAVEN RV01 SST-RV01B-W (black + window). Else it's better than.

Still there is not a review by SPCR of it, but you can see the review by SPCR of the first.

Forget aluminum, steel is better at blocking noise.

The best is the RV02. Do not forget to replace the top 120mm fan with a Scythe S-Flex 'D or a Gentle Typhoon '12 120 mm.

Highlights: 8 expansion slots, positive pressure, filters, very silent, steel, design more sober than its predecessor.
Hugs!

Greetings.

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:18 am

OlÃ¡ amigo!

I love our language, but I'll reply in English in respect to the other people in this forum ;D

For the curious, his last post translates to:

Hello Brazilian friend!
Have you thought about a SilverStone RAVEN RV02 SST-RV02B-W (black + window) yet?
(...)
Forget aluminum, steel is better at blocking noise.
The best is the RV02. Do not forget to replace the top 120mm fan with a Scythe S-Flex 'D or a Gentle Typhoon '12 120 mm.
Highlights: 8 expansion slots, positive pressure, filters, very silent, steel, design more sober than its predecessor.
Hugs!

It is indeed a great case and I must agree in every respect with SPCR's review (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article942-page1.html). I've also checked out other reviews of the RV02 to add on to that.

I see a few problems though. Personally, I wish something more minimalistic, not something that looks like it's ready to take off and return to its mother ship

Yes, it is more sober than the RV01, but it is still for gamers. I also don't like the idea of rotating the motherboard. Cables should connect to the back (not the top) for better cable management. No fans should be at the top too, since this would would let noise through directly to my ears. The same goes for side vents or other openings, such as the (surely pretty) side window. Read SPCR's recommendations again: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article75-page1.html.

What's that large fan below the HDDs? It may surprise a few people, but it is not a good idea to keep HDDs too cool, according to Google (http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf). I've had a few that failed due to low temperature. Mine without fans blowing at them (but in a case with positive pressure, which should be a little hotter than the usual) currently stay around 35ÂºC, which is close to ideal.

I'm quite sure it should be a great case for positive pressure and highly practical for working inside the case, but I'm not convinced it is the ideal case for non-gamers.

(*sigh* Well, manufacturers 'almost' get it right sometimes. I wonder if they ever read SPCR

I think Antec does

)

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:28 am

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, but I think I have decided. I'll go for the SOLO.

The only thing it lacks, for me, is the P182's front door, which would help protect some sensitive buttons, block sound from a noisy optical drive in operation and add a great touch of style. Also, I could have the case repainted if I wish. Everything else is "just right" out-of-the-box.

audiojar · Post by **audiojar** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:47 am

Couldn't you do positive pressure from the front on a P183? It has a really open front (with a door) and I believe you can have 2 12cm intakes up front and even one in the middle (behind the drive cage).

Why not use negative pressure? The P183 has a good amount of filter surface area. Unless you are overclocking you shouldn't need a lot of airflow. Many even block off the top exhaust. As long as you keep it sealed up so air only flows in from the front it should work well even with low airflow.

lb_felipe · Post by **lb_felipe** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:25 am

ftrebien wrote:OlÃ¡ amigo!

I love our language, but I'll reply in English in respect to the other people in this forum ;D

(...)

I wrote bit by bit and no order.

I did at daybreak so I did not review waht I did.... I am sorry. Sorry everybody.

Sorry for my ridiculous english anyway.

I would fix the crap that I did in the my first post here in this thread, but I think that is not necessary now.

lb_felipe · Post by **lb_felipe** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:31 pm

Hi, look me back.

@topic,

I agree with you that "overcooling" bring not advantageous and, as mentioned by you, may even harm - as in the case of HDDs.

audiojar, I think he do not wish negative pressure because this method get up much dust.

I also think the P182 better than others in termos of aesthetics. But, by all that Raven has, I wold choice that.

Friend, would be that 180mm fan for HDD cage can to cause harm to HDDs?

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:51 pm

ftrebien wrote:Thanks everyone for the suggestions, but I think I have decided. I'll go for the SOLO.

The only thing it lacks, for me, is the P182's front door, which would help protect some sensitive buttons, block sound from a noisy optical drive in operation and add a great touch of style. Also, I could have the case repainted if I wish. Everything else is "just right" out-of-the-box.

I used to want a front door, as with my old Sonata case, but I find having to always open the front door on a P182, 183 annoying, aside from having to close the top. Another thing I don't like about the P182, 183 is the way the hard drives mount--vertically; I much prefer the hard drive mounting in the Solo with drive rails for SSD and elastic bands for hard drives (rotating). Plus, I imagine it must be a bit awkward cleaning or changing the front fans. Otherwise, I see the advantages of a P182, 183 but what I don't like outweighs what I do like.

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:53 pm

Couldn't you do positive pressure from the front on a P183? It has a really open front (with a door) and I believe you can have 2 12cm intakes up front and even one in the middle (behind the drive cage).

I could, but I don't believe that the P183 is a case where positive pressure would work well. Just as I said in my first post, warm air leaving the PSU at the bottom would be picked by the (then reversed) rear cooler (it has to be reversed to help providing positive pressure).

Why not use negative pressure? The P183 has a good amount of filter surface area. Unless you are overclocking you shouldn't need a lot of airflow. Many even block off the top exhaust. As long as you keep it sealed up so air only flows in from the front it should work well even with low airflow.

Positive pressure does not mean a lot of air flow. In fact, it usually means less, that's why you need to choose heatsinks carefully. Like lb_felipe said, I want a dust-free system, and a negative pressure system cannot guarantee that (dusty air would be sucked in through gaps around the case). I'm not overclocking (quite the opposite, I've considered underclocking for improved quietness). And no matter how much you seal the vents of the coolers, there will always be gaps around drive bays, the hole where the motherboard fits in the back, the gaps around the case's side panels, etc. That's why positive pressure is necessary for a dust-free system.

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:00 pm

I did at daybreak so I did not review waht I did.... I am sorry. Sorry everybody.

Sorry for my ridiculous english anyway.

It's ok, lb_felipe. You can still edit your post if you wish. Maybe Google Translate (http://translate.google.com) can help with your posts in English. It's good, but not perfect.

Friend, would be that 180mm fan for HDD cage can to cause harm to HDDs?

Mm, good question. Maybe. All I know is that my fanless HDDs are kept at the ideal temperature level, so putting a fan would bring them closer (but possibly beyond) the 20ÂºC safe limit found by Google.

ftrebien · Post by **ftrebien** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:43 pm

I used to want a front door, as with my old Sonata case, but I find having to always open the front door on a P182, 183 annoying, aside from having to close the top. Another thing I don't like about the P182, 183 is the way the hard drives mount--vertically; I much prefer the hard drive mounting in the Solo with drive rails for SSD and elastic bands for hard drives (rotating). Plus, I imagine it must be a bit awkward cleaning or changing the front fans. Otherwise, I see the advantages of a P182, 183 but what I don't like outweighs what I do like.

Agreed, agreed and agreed. I too concluded that the front door, despite stylish, would become an annoyance sooner or later, and I agree about the HDD mounts as well. The P182/3 would be nearly perfect for a negative pressure system I think (I'd miss the elastic suspension mounts though, and the SOLO would be quite as good), but for the positive, I must stick to the SOLO.

lb_felipe · Post by **lb_felipe** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:48 am

But do not forget that P182's front door can be opened in 270Â°, which would significantly reduce the irritation of having to open it because it could be kept always open. However, this way seem strange, ugly (the front panel of it is ugly) and wrong.

ftrebien, have you thought about the FT01? There is a review from it by MikeC here in SPCR.

See you soon!

neljeffz · Post by **neljeffz** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:59 am

Low-speed 180mm fans, positive air pressure design, ... hard drives all make this an interesting case for the silent power PC builder..

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lb_felipe · Post by **lb_felipe** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:16 pm

Although also there is cooling for HDDs in the FT01 like RV02.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:48 pm

The FT01 is freakin EXPENSIVEEEEE

go with a p183 and call it a quiet sunday

coreyography · Post by **coreyography** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:00 pm

audiojar wrote:Couldn't you do positive pressure from the front on a P183? It has a really open front (with a door) and I believe you can have 2 12cm intakes up front and even one in the middle (behind the drive cage).

Not really, at least not in the stock configuration. You have two 120mm front intakes, but one really only blows into the bottom HDD/PSU compartment; very little of that air gets up into the main motherboard section (by design). Since you have two exhaust fans (top and rear), you are not likely to get positive pressure, particularly with a mid- to high-end GPU sucking air from the case and exhausting out the rear as well.

You might be able to reverse the top fan, turning it into an intake. I plan to try this later on if my current front-fan-full-out setup proves to be too loud.

Why not use negative pressure? The P183 has a good amount of filter surface area. Unless you are overclocking you shouldn't need a lot of airflow. Many even block off the top exhaust. As long as you keep it sealed up so air only flows in from the front it should work well even with low airflow.

It needs a pretty good bit, at least with a higher-wattage processor and GPU. If you are running an AMD785/Athlon 240 or something, then yes, you could get by with one fan's worth or less.

I'm lazy. I'd rather remove/clean/replace dust filters than take the entire 40-lb PC outside and blow it out with the nozzle on my air compressor. Positive pressure avoids having to seal every little hole, and avoids "recycling" hot exhaust air from places like my GPU and PSU outlets. If you find you need airflow at some particular place in the case -- say, an add-in card is getting hot -- you just open up another hole (i.e., take out an adjacent slot filler). With negative pressure you can't do that, or if you do you have to either filter it or deal with some dust.

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:12 am

i built a positive pressure system into my p182, it works great... i used a lian li bay converter on the top front area, because it comes with a fan.

i replaced and reversed all of the other fans in the upper cage, and the net result was quite a bit of positive pressure... i removed one of the expansion slot covers to help cool the video card, because that's where the hot air exits.

the only place that there is any risk of drawing hot air into the system is at the upper rear fan area, but i put a piece of cardboard under the back grill there.

i still need to come up with air filters for the top and rear intakes, tho.

wrt the solo vs. the p182, it was no contest for me, because the p182 is a much better choice for a high performance system... i'd probably pick a mini-p182 over a solo, for a positive pressure system.