passive geforce4 ti in a fanless case

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:31 am

Hi all,

I've been rigging up an old Athlon XP 1700+ as a silent secondary pc. The two primary sources of noise were the CPU fan, which will be replaced by a Zalman CNPS 7000B (running at 5V) and the GFX card fan, a stock fan on a Geforce4 Ti 4400. I noticed the Accelero S2 supports that card so it would seem like an ideal choice, but the case does not sport any fans (or room to install one), other than the CPU&PSU fans of course. So will running the gfx card passively be a bad idea? Maybe it's a better idea to just undervolt the card fan instead (the motherboard, an Asrock K7VT4A pro, does not sport any features to this end however) as the Zalman fan isn't exactly silent either?
I don't want to spend much more money on it. The pc won't be used for intensive gaming or anything that will strain the gfx card to the maximum.

Thanks in advance!

edit: the case is a cheap microATX tower model, not exactly aimed towards efficient cooling.

edh · Post by **edh** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:19 am

Replacing with the S2 would be a good way to go and should be fine on that passively. I have one on an FX5600 which is a similar level of power in almost negligible airflow and it runs fine. Unless you're looking to underclock/undervolt the card as well it is unlikely that you'd be able to slow the stock fan down by much on it as it's only way of cooling is to spin very fast. Undervolting the GPU may be worth considering if you are handy with a soldering iron.

I would expect the Zalman fan to kick a fair amount of air around the case due to it's radial design which will help if you have no other fans in there.

What PSU and hard disk are you using? Are these major noise producers? Any chance of a picture?

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:22 am

If there is no exhaust port out the back except for the PSU, then running the vidcard passivedly sounds like a bad idea. It also sounds like you should take a dremel or jigsaw and cut open a hole on the back panel -- even w/o a fan, this would probably help.

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:06 am

Hmm, conflicting advice

Since the zalman is a LED fan (there was no other model available) I suppose I could leave one (or both) of the sides of the case open, provided that wouldn't be too loud again. Would that help?
I can't provide pictures now, perhaps this weekend. The PSU is another cheap +/-400W model, but it's noise doesn't bother me. Same for the two 160GB IDE HDs.

edh · Post by **edh** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:44 am

jordos wrote:Hmm, conflicting advice

I was assuming there would be at least some ventilation around the front and back of the case, MikeC is coming from the angle that they might not be any. Design of the case would influence this decision I guess.

morpheus · Post by **morpheus** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:51 am

I have used an S2 on a GF4Ti without any problems. I had it in a P182 with the front fan (the one in the upper chamber) blowing some air towards it and it was barely warm. I also had heatsinks on the memory chips (the S2 comes with enough ram heatsinks).

Before installing the S2 I was using an old modded Athlon cooler with a slow 60mm fan, and it was quite hot at times, I remember the back of the PCB right under the core being almost painfully hot for my finger. I believe that the core can withstand relatively high temperatures, so you shouldn't have a problem. After all, you should notice artifacts if there is a temp problem, in which case the slightest of forced airflows should provide enough cooling to solve the problem.

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:38 pm

Alright, that's reassuring but I'll try to post some pics this weekend for better inspection

ThaArtist · Post by **ThaArtist** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:14 pm

Sorry to ask a question here. What exactly is a passive video card? Just a video card without a fan that cools itsself with "passive" air? lol. I dunno. Just wondering cause of this thread and my cheap priced Asus (open box deal) video card has a somewhat loud fan on it. Is there something you can do to cards like that with some settings or ... ?

So what is this passive stuff mentioned here?

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:08 pm

Passive Cooling is using a heatsink with a large surface area to dissipate the heat being generated by whatever processing unit you're looking to cool.

Passive type heatsink examples are the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1, as well as Accelero S2, the Thermalright HR-03 series, and HR-03 GT. Older Passive cooling solutions were available, such as the Condor, featured in an article by SPCR a while back actually.

While a passive cooling solution would need no fans, adding fans just increases the cooling capabilities, while keeping the noise to a minimum.

In changing the heatsink on a graphics card, you technically void any manufacturers warranty, unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer. If you're careful about putting on the new cooler, you shouldn't have to worry about damage to the card. Open Box products are usually only covered by a return policy with the company or retailer you bought it through, for example Newegg sometimes offers a 14 or 30 day return policy for open box items etc.

Upgrading to a passive cooling solution for your graphics card will benefit you, as you have no warranty to lose, and the temperature of your system would go down. Another thing to consider is that if you buy a widely supported heatsink for your graphics card, you can keep it when you upgrade, and continue to use it later in time, making it a worthwhile investment.

Answer your questions well enough?

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:27 am

Well no picture (don't have a digital camera at the moment) but on closer inspection it looks like there actually is room for a 80mm fan in the front and in the back of the case after all

I do happen to have one spare 80mm fan lying here, should I mount it at the back or the front, or both to have any positive effect? (or do you need to see the case for that)

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:37 am

Either place you mount the fan probably won't get too much air over the GPU (but it may be enough). The ATX design makes it hard to get air to that area.

Some other ideas include using zip ties to tie a fan to the hard disk cage or you could just rest the fan on the bottom of your case by the GPU, assuming the fan stands up well enough and you don't move your case.

I have a sound card in my bottom PCI slot and I have a quiet 120mm fan resting on it to move air over the GPU and northbridge heatsinks. The cable for the 24-pin PSU connector rests on top of it, holding it in place.

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:20 am

Ok I managed to make some pictures of the case, showing both case fan spots.
http://users.telenet.be/V776822/IMGP1678.JPG
http://users.telenet.be/V776822/IMGP1679.JPG

The zalman cooler is installed, along with the fanmate that came with it (any ideas on where to put that thing, it's fine while the case is open but I'd rather close it). It currently has a passive geforce2 MX card in it, which is actually just fine. But there is something about using the best components available, even if they're old

Current CPU temp is about 30C idle, with the zalman running slightly above the lowest (fanmate) setting as it produces a high pitched whine when running it at the very lowest speed. It's silent enough to make the hard drives the main source of noise. (a 160GB IDE Maxtor 6L160P0 and a 160GB IDE ST3160812A, whatever that is) Unfortunately speedfan doesn't give any information about the GPU temperature. (just says 0C)

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:14 am

Yeah, you will definitely need to cut out those fan grills. They are probably the most restrictive grills I've ever seen.

Open up those holes and put a slow and quiet fan in the rear exhaust port. You can probably leave the front hole without a fan.

If you are going passive on the video card, you will need another way to get heat out of the system.

Also, try using S2kCtl and 8rdavcore to help you AthlonXP run cooler. The first enables the Bus Disconnect function when idle, the second allows you to undervolt your processor, using less power (and heat).

edh · Post by **edh** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:20 am

A geforce 2 MX won't have a temperature sensor on it. A Geforce 4 may do but it was not part of the reference design.

If you're going to use casefan airflow then you will want to tidy up those cables too.

If the hard disks are the main source of noise then is there any reason why you're using IDE drives when the motherboard supports SATA? Have you thought of replacing the drives with a single quiet SATA disk of a similar combined capacity?

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:49 am

Thanks for clearing that up, both of you!
Is a SATA HD quieter than IDE? But the main reason not to do so would be monetary restrictions

(I know, a hd isn't that expensive but any purchase above â‚¬20-30 on this pc would be too much for me)
I do have a few spare 40GB IDE HDs here, I intend to use one of those to install the OS on. Should be quieter than the 160GB one right?
edit: also, the high pitched whine doesn't seem to come from the zalman after all, unless it can make that noise while the fan is stopped.

edh · Post by **edh** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:49 am

jordos wrote:Is a SATA HD quieter than IDE?

The interface itself makes no difference however there are specific quiet designs nowadays such as the WD Green Power and the Seagate Pipeline series. A single platter spinning makes less noise than a pair of drives each with several platters, that's all. Soft mounting your existing drives may make as much difference if you can do it for free.

jordos wrote:I do have a few spare 40GB IDE HDs here, I intend to use one of those to install the OS on. Should be quieter than the 160GB one right?

Probably not but it depends upon the model of the hard disk. Around 2002 there was a step change when the Seagate Barracuda IV came out with fluid dynamic bearings. Before then hard disks had been getting increasingly loud as spindal speeds increased. If the 40Gb disks you have are post 2002 low end models they'll probably be very good, I have a 40Gb Maxtor that gets close to the Barracuda IV just because it's a single platter but if it's a top of the range year 2000, 7200rpm drive, it'll be loud.

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:13 am

dont just cut out room for the small 80mm fan, you have room for a 92 or more as an exhaust.

isolate the drives from the case to minimize resonance.

oh yeah AND work on cable management.

jordos · Post by **jordos** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:26 pm

edh wrote:
jordos wrote:I do have a few spare 40GB IDE HDs here, I intend to use one of those to install the OS on. Should be quieter than the 160GB one right?
Probably not but it depends upon the model of the hard disk. Around 2002 there was a step change when the Seagate Barracuda IV came out with fluid dynamic bearings. Before then hard disks had been getting increasingly loud as spindal speeds increased. If the 40Gb disks you have are post 2002 low end models they'll probably be very good, I have a 40Gb Maxtor that gets close to the Barracuda IV just because it's a single platter but if it's a top of the range year 2000, 7200rpm drive, it'll be loud.

Here are the other HDs:
40GB ST340016A (=seagate barracuda?)
40GB Maxtor 6L040J2
80GB ST380011A
Of those three only the maxtor supports ATA133 according to HD Tune, the others are stuck at 100. I thought a smaller hd would be more silent than an equal hd type with larger capacity.

Alright, allright, Ill do something about the damn cables