Core i7 DAW advice, please!

[escalation746]

I am trying to put together a system for about £1000 that I will use as my general-purpose computer and, specifically, as a music workstation. I use processer-intensive synthesis programmes (Reaktor, Csound, etc.) as well as multi-track recorders, wave editors, transcoding etc. I also enjoy the occasional game, previously having been a fan of Half-Life 2, Spore and Torchlight.

Besides having a powerful-enough system, my chief goal is silence. I am so tired of whiny computers!

I have looked at buying a pre-built system but figure I can save a significant amount doing it myself. I will target Core i7 and Socket 1366.

Here is what I am looking at. I have no personal experience with any of these components but have read reviews until I am blue in the face. Any and all advice is surely welcome!

CASE: Fractal Design Define R2
I like a minimal aesthetic so this suits me. Currently I have a Shuttle with external NAS. But it's noisy as anything! I now need something big enough to house 4 hard drives (to start). One limitation here is the maximum of two external bays: I will use one for DVD writer and the other for a multi-card reader. From reviews I see that this case sacrifices cooling for silence. I am willing to do that, but maybe I should be considering an additional fan so it doesn't get too melty?

PSU: Antec Signature 650
The Signature is a piece of art that runs <18 dB(A) up to 300W. I doubt I will need more power than that, so 99% of the time it will be dead quiet. I could get a lesser powered PSU, but then the noise would be higher at relatively lower power levels.

ALTERNATIVE: Enermax Modu82+ 625
The Enermax is a tad quieter and can put out a bit more juice before the fan starts whining (though I am not sure a 2 dB difference is noticeable). But it's a bit more expensive. Other than that I am not sure why I have a bias towards the Antec.

BOARD: Gigabyte EX58-UD5
I trust Gigabytes products, but the line-up is a bit confusing. This has a TI chipped FireWire controller, which is critical for me, as my audio interface is an RME FireFace. I have heard of some compatibility issues with other brands over audio cards, say with ASUS boards. Sometimes Ineed to plug in other audio interfaces so I need the widest compatibility possible. Most builders would never run across such problems, but DAWs are a different kettle of fish.

ALTERNATIVE: Gigabyte EX58-UD3R
This is mostly similar to the above, right? One difference is that it has only 3 DIMM slots, so if I use cheaper 2GB I am limited to 6GB. That's all I plan on to begin with, until prices come down. But the UD5 with 6 slots gives me the easy option of 12GB later on. However, I am not sure it's worth paying a big premium for that right now. Convince me to save £64 by telling me that's the only important thing I'd be giving up.

ALTERNATIVE: Gigabyte EX58-UD4P
Possibly a better compromise, but not available from my supplier. Everything else on this list is. If I need to get one piece from someone else, I lose out on shipping charges (everything here in Ireland comes from overseas).

PROCESSOR: Intel i7 920
For the best price-performance ratio. I will overclock but not too far, to avoid excessive power requirements.

RAM: 3x 2GB Corsair 1600MHz DDR3
I have no idea how 6GB will feel in use. Likely wonderful!

CPU Cooler: Scythe Kabuto
Seems nice and quiet -- in a hot case I wouldn't trust the stock cooler.

GRAPHICS: Sapphire HD 4670 Ultimate 1GB
The only passive version of this card with that much memory. I prefer ATI and this should be sufficient for my needs. Besides, I cannot afford to spend hundreds on a monster graphics card right now.

CARD READER: Akasa AK-ICR-07S
I have no idea about this. I doubt it matters much.

OPTICAL: Sony AD-7241S-0B DVD±R
I also have no idea which of the many cheap DVD burners are the best. I am sure they are all much the same.

STORAGE: 2x 1.5TB Samsung Spinpoint F2 (HD154UI)
I'll use the 2 1TB drives out of the NAS as well, for 5TB total. Audio takes up a lot of room and I like to have many projects on hand. That said, 2TB of this is pure backup. (I have 1.5TB of external backup as well.) Actually, to save cash I might just buy one new drive for now. I would like to afford a SSD for the OS, but a Samsung 64GB costs as much as this 3TB.

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM
Naturally. I don't think the pumped up versions have real features.

MONITOR: HP LP2475w
The cheapest S-IPS that is accurate for photography (another interest). Costs double what I want to pay, but any other option costs double again.

Thanks in advance for any help. I want to go get these parts ASAP.

Am I missing anything I will need to plug'n'play? This is my first new system in eight years -- really! Exciting times!

[Made a few edits for clarity.]

[escalation746]

CASE: Fractal Design Define R2

This seems perpetually out of stock everywhere, but I cannot find a good alternative that is a) quiet, b) no more expensive, c) as good looking.

GRAPHICS: Sapphire HD 4670 Ultimate 1GB

No longer available from my supplier and I cannot find anything the equal of it without paying double. <sigh>

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM
Naturally. I don't think the pumped up versions have real features.

I was wrong here. The Virtual PC in the Professional and Ultimate editions allows multiple Windows environments to run simultaneously, including "Windows XP Compatibility Mode". This might be important for older apps I am depending on. I don't really know, but it might be worth paying the £27 difference for peace of mind.

[escalation746]

I guess this forum doesn't have much traffic. But I will continue to update my thoughts in case this conversation with myself helps anyone else out there.

[danimal]

p183 wasn't an option? you could run the cp-850 in it, much cheaper than the signature.

4670? how about the passive powercolor 5750?

[escalation746]

p183 wasn't an option? you could run the cp-850 in it, much cheaper than the signature.

The Antec P183/P193 was on my short list of cases, but reviewers do comment that it is not the quietest case... and that is my priority. I also don't like how the front panel I/O is near the bottom, since that puts it well out of reach. And the look is pretty bad to me. On the other hand I do like the idea of two internal compartments, especially as this would work well with the straight air path of my selected PSU.

Your recommendation of the Antec CP-850 is a good one if an Antec case is chosen, since it runs 2-3dB quieter than the PSUs I chose, based on this chart at silent pc review. This makes it worth looking at such a non-standard PSU. Thank you for the good advice!

But another consideration is that the Antec P193 plus CP-850 is GBP 50 more expensive than the Fractal Design Define R2 plus Antec Signature 650. That makes four strikes against and one mark for it.

4670? how about the passive powercolor 5750?

The one I have available from scan.co.uk is far from passive... it has a huge honkin' fan on it. And it's almost double the price.

(Since I keep mentioning it, I should note that price is not the biggest obstacle. If the Antec case had ports at the top and looked nicer I could overlook a small-ish price differential.)

[danimal]

i would get the p183 over the p193, because the fan on the side of the p193 is going to be noisy, even if it's not running... the fractal case also has a fan port on the side, i wonder if it can be blocked off?

the fractal case looks similar to the p183; they both appear to have fans behind a front door, with vertical venting along the sides.

the fractal case doesn't have those ugly p183 vents in the front door, so it looks better in front, but i gotta wonder if the venting on the sides passes enough air around the door... antec added the front door vents because the sides didn't flow enough air, and imho, i'm not sure that the front vents add enough airflow for twin or triple 120mm fans.

the p183 door folds clear around, flat on the side of the case, which is pretty handy... i was looking at the side vents on the fractal, you could chop some of 'em out if you had to(?).

i usually crack the front door, so you could do that with the fractal... how does the p183 compare to the fractal price-wise?

check the spcr video forum for some links to the passive powercolor... hanging a quiet 120mm fan onto it is still going to be a lot quieter than a factory fan.

[bonestonne]

care to delve into what type of Audio work you'll be doing, and what devices you'll be using?

I'd suggest a little less graphics. In reality any HD3xxx card could do just as good. 4xxx series is fine too, but no need for 1gb, you wont use it.

About the compatibility modes, I switched 7 into Test Mode, and I'm having trouble thinking of an app that gives me trouble, that would be more widely used. RMClock utility does not work well with 7, but thats the only thing that comes to mind.

I'm more curious about your choice of DAW software and hardware, as I've been having trouble with mine.

[escalation746]

i would get the p183 over the p193, because the fan on the side of the p193 is going to be noisy, even if it's not running... the fractal case also has a fan port on the side, i wonder if it can be blocked off?

The top and side ports can indeed be blocked, using what they fancily call ModuVentâ„¢.

the fractal case looks similar to the p183; they both appear to have fans behind a front door, with vertical venting along the sides.

Yep.

the fractal case doesn't have those ugly p183 vents in the front door, so it looks better in front, but i gotta wonder if the venting on the sides passes enough air around the door...

The Fractal runs hotter -- likely this reason is a contributing factor. But it also runs quieter. And since I'm not going to be packing crazy overclocking or a Godzilla graphics card I won't worry excessively about heat. I think it's better to start with a quieter case with the option of more fans than a cooler one that cannot get any quieter.

how does the p183 compare to the fractal price-wise?

From Scan:
Fractal R2: £80
Antec P183: £110
Antec P193: £123

check the spcr video forum for some links to the passive powercolor... hanging a quiet 120mm fan onto it is still going to be a lot quieter than a factory fan.

Doesn't seem available to me, unfortunately.

[escalation746]

care to delve into what type of Audio work you'll be doing, and what devices you'll be using?

I am an electro-acoustic composer and phonographer. I tend to gather location sounds, using one of my microphone sets and recording devices. So I have a growing number of recordings that require storing. Listening back to and editing these takes a lot of time.

Then I process these sounds using a large variety of tools, but mostly Reaktor and sometimes Csound. I use Samplitude as my multi-track editor since it completely rocks. I have used Nuendo for an 8.1 project, as well as Logic (on a Mac, naturally) and others.

Some of these projects end up with an enormous number of tracks. But since I do not record more than two channels at a time (when I record directly at all) I have not seen any need for super-fast hard drives. So far my work has been processer bound, but hey, I'm running a P4 2.4GHz with 1GB of RAM.

Actually, I use my wife's laptop for large projects since it is significantly more powerful.

Sometimes I have ventured into needing large sample sets, but that is generally not my scene. What I need is a killer processer for increasingly complex Reaktor Ensembles and fast offline processing of mono and stereo audio files.

I also need something way more powerful for photo editing, starting with 15 megapixel digital images and scanned medium format negatives. I have also done video editing and authored a DVD or two.

I'd suggest a little less graphics. In reality any HD3xxx card could do just as good. 4xxx series is fine too, but no need for 1gb, you wont use it.

I likely won't be getting 1GB since the card that was available for such a good deal has evaporated. But I'll get the best possible while remaining silent, inexpensive and relatively cool. Which puts me at DirectX 10 level. May as well, y'know? I live without television but love a good game now and then.

About the compatibility modes, I switched 7 into Test Mode, and I'm having trouble thinking of an app that gives me trouble, that would be more widely used. RMClock utility does not work well with 7, but thats the only thing that comes to mind.

I have an old version of CoolEdit I still use, as well as various shareware and open source products, not to mention strange academic stuff like Chuck. I would hate to find out that some tool I use for one specific purpose is no longer available to me.

My hardware is an RME FireFace. I also have their PCI product and sometimes need to plug in USB interfaces belonging to other musicians and composers.

[audiojar]

Your largest noise source is going to be all those HDs. Even with quiet drives the noise adds up. You would be better of with a single internal drive and then use a NAS in another room for storage, or you can even open sessions straight from it with gigabit ethernet.

[escalation746]

Putting the HD elsewhere is a good suggestion and one of the reasons I got a NAS in the first place. But the details of my old house make implementing this less than ideal. Plus I have run into many NAS annoyances. I would also like to save on power cables everywhere.

In short, I have tried this idea and it did not work for me, though it might for someone else.

Are four HD really going to be that loud with only two actually accessed regularly? Maybe I can set the other two to spin down?

[audiojar]

Putting the HD elsewhere is a good suggestion and one of the reasons I got a NAS in the first place. But the details of my old house make implementing this less than ideal. Plus I have run into many NAS annoyances. I would also like to save on power cables everywhere.

In short, I have tried this idea and it did not work for me, though it might for someone else.

Are four HD really going to be that loud with only two actually accessed regularly? Maybe I can set the other two to spin down?

Well if you have two drives working at once that's theoretically a 3dB increase in noise compared to just one.

[escalation746]

I was more questioning how loud the drives are when in use versus when just sitting there. I know some of this can be tuned, so perhaps this is a "wait and see" proposition for me.

[Faster_Madman]

Building DAW's are never cheap.
If it has been 8 years since your last build and more than a couple of years since your last DAW purchase i guess you will be surprised at how much silence you get these days for your money right out of the box, if you're just a little careful choosing the components.

In my experience what you need from a satisfying DAW experience is lots of RAM and monitor estate (?), the latter probably the reason why you want an ATI card capable of supporting 2-3 monitors in high resolution.

For silence the things you really should be aware of in your DAW should be the harddrives, PSU, case and fans so you'll want to choose a case in which you can install those things so that they don't have any direct contact to the case itself.

The aesthetics shouldn't be more important than the silence aspect.

Most 4xxx and 5xxx ATI cards, including the high-end ones can be very quiet, not to say silent, in idle (2D) mode.

My advice would be to, if you have to save money, save them on aesthetics and get the most silence for the money any time.

One other thing, are you sure that the newer TI fw controllers are compatible with your soundcard? I ask because i have experienced some older fw soundcards not being compatible with the newer TI fw controllers resulting in all kinds of very annoying problems which makes it practically impossible to use them in a creative environment.

[escalation746]

In my experience what you need from a satisfying DAW experience is lots of RAM and monitor estate (?), the latter probably the reason why you want an ATI card capable of supporting 2-3 monitors in high resolution.

Currently I have been using a 17" monitor. Soon I will be adding to that a 24", which will be like moving out of a shoebox into a concert hall!

One other thing, are you sure that the newer TI fw controllers are compatible with your soundcard? I ask because i have experienced some older fw soundcards not being compatible with the newer TI fw controllers resulting in all kinds of very annoying problems which makes it practically impossible to use them in a creative environment.

These matters are too complicated for mortal man, I fear.