Help me decide how many fans I actually need

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:14 am

I have an Antec vsk2000 that I am trying to bring the noise down on. Currently I have this...

Corsair 450hx
Intel q6600 CPU
Coolermaster 212+ w/ stock fan
gigabyte 5830 stock cooling
NZXT Sentry 2
2x Yate Loon D12SL-12 intake fans
1x Yate Loon D12SL-12 exhaust fan

here is a crude drawing of the case. I am realizing now that I should have labeled some stuff. Whatever. the big rectangle at the top is the PSU, the smaller squares denote 120mm fans. darker gray boxes are my drive cages. a note, my HDD sits on a foam block on the floor of the case so all the lower cages are completely empty. The green thin rectangle is my 5830.

For normal computing I only run the exhaust and lower intake fan at 40% and turn off the upper intake. Its pretty low noise, but I want it less. My goal is to have near silent for basic computing and low noise for gaming. I am ok with eliminating fans as long as my temps are good.

I am building my wife a new PC so she is going to get my 212+ and one of the YL fans. I am going to replace the 212+ with a Mugen2.

The 5830 is by far the loudest thing in here. I am going to get an S1 or Scythe Mushashi to take care of it. Since I am getting rid of one of the fans I thought about upgrading it to something better...like the nexus or a noctua, to reduce my basic operation noise.

any opinions or suggestions are welcome but here are a couple of questions or scenerarios I have already thought of.

1) I am going to use speedfan and coretemp to try and get some readings. I really don't care about case temps as long as the CPU, GPU, and HDD are cool enough. which brings me to my question...what is cool enough? How low should my temps be at idle? I am digging around the web for full load temps.

1) if I built a CPU duct to direct the warm air off the HSF directly out of the exhaust fan opening, could I remove the exhaust fan and still get effective case cooling? This would leave the ducted CPU fan and the PSU fan as the only exhaust. I would consider doing push/pull on the mugen to make the CPu cooling more effective in this scenario. the idea would be that the fans could run even slower being right on the HS and still cool well.

2) duct the lower intake to force 100% of its airflow into the video cards space and leave PCI slot covers off for rear exhaust. This would make the video card cooling more efficient and also act as an exhaust, taking some of the duties off of the CPU fan and PSU fan.

The extra black lines indicate partitions or ducting...

or

frenchie · Post by **frenchie** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:32 am

Hi,
Your second solution is my favorite:
- better cooling of GPU
- no need for the top intake fan

However, I would change one thing : put the exhaust fan on the case exhaust and duct it to the mugen. With your curent setup for solution 2, your PSU will end up sucking air from the outside through the exhaust vent and some warm air will end up being recycled.

Hope that helps !

[EDIT : also, for the GPU duct, make sur there is plenty of room between the duct and the top of the card so some air car circulate, otherwise your GPU will get hot. Another solution (my favorite) is to use the GPU as part of the duct (your duct goes around the GPU, and the GPU board itself is the top part of the duct)]

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:36 am

what about the possible dead space witht he CPU ducted? I guess its no real concern, not much is there. just the NB heatsink

frenchie · Post by **frenchie** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:39 am

you don't have to extend the duct all the way at the bottom of the mugen. And if you really want to take care of that potential hot pocket, add a little opening in the duct (like a couple of slits) to get some of the air moving around there.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:47 am

I think my first step will be this one...

Added:
an Accelero s1, a Mugen 2, and some ducting.

This will take me from a total of 7 fans in the system (including the PSU) to 3. If the temps are too high I still will have 2 YL 120mm fans to place around the case. I suspect the S1 might need one. I might need to place the rear exhaust fan back in the system as well. If I did the rear exhaust fan would it be better to do a Scythe fan that matches the HSF and put them both on the mobo PWM header or run it off the fan controller?

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:29 am

Personally, I'd take the last setup, dump the duct around the CPU and add a case exhaust fan. This should give you better cooling of the VRMs and other components around the CPU, perhaps better CPU temps as well -- and the additional YL fan, at 5V or less, will make no appreciable difference in noise. Also, the PSU fan will probably become noticeable at this point -- you will probably want to swap the PSU fan for something quieter. But just try your new configs first.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:01 am

ok, so like this...

No CPU duct and the lower section is completely cut off from the top as is possible.

The cooling setup would consist of the following:

2 YL 120mm fans
Mugen 2 with single stock fan
Accelero S1 passive on 5830
120mm fan in the Corsair 450

This eliminates 1 intake and 2 GPU fans from my current setup, as well as upgrades the CPU cooler.

Mike, you mentioned replacing the PSU fan...any recommendations? I would have an extra Yate Loon with this setup, as long as the S1 doesn't need it I could pop it in the PSU.

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:48 pm

We haven't tested the 450hx, but if it is like the other Seasonic-made Corsairs, it has a dual-ball bearing Adda fan rated for ~2000rpm. The Seaonic psu fan controllers have a min/default fan voltage of around 4~5V depending on model. While the YL fan you have will start as low as 3V, it might not spin fast enough to keep the PSU adequately cool. This is why most people who do a Corsair PSU fan swap use fans rated for close to the 2000rpm of the original. Even 1500rpm will do... but if you're willing to experiment, try the YL, it might work fine as your system is going to be pretty well cooled anyway.

Also, just do the other things first and see if the PSU is quiet enough as it is.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:53 pm

yeah, PSU fan will be last swap. If I do that do I need a PWM fan or standard?

b_rubenstein · Post by **b_rubenstein** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:38 am

I have yet to see a PS fan connector have more than a 2 pin +12 and ground connection. A PWM fan is the last thing you want.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:44 pm

Baseline setup
Fans full speed

peak temps under 100% load for 1 hour
Core 0 - 47C
Core 1 - 48C
Core 2 - 44C
Core 3 - 45C

noise: too loud.

Reconfig 1
no partition, stock GPU cooler
fans at full speed

peak temps under 100% load for 1 hour
Core 0 - 56C
Core 1 - 57C
Core 2 - 52C
Core 3 - 52C

noise: still louder than I would want. GPU is obvious. CPU has a distinct tone.

Reconfig 2
for kicks I tried the system with no case fans...CPU and PSU only. PSU ramped up super high in no time and it was pretty hot in there. About what I expected.

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:58 pm

Why are you bothering w/fans at full speed? of course it's too loud.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:09 am

because my fan controller fried the other day and I havent replaced it yet

. Plus I thought it would be nice to see the temp differences, if any, when I ramp down the case fans. I was suprised at the immediate 7-9C jump when I eliminated the 2 fans. My next step will be to turn them each on indvidually and see if one makes a greater effect than the other.

I dont want to do the undervolt mod because I want to retain the ability to jack them up if I am gaming. with my headphones on the PC is dead silent so who cares

my little experience with all the case fans off told me the GPU needs immediate attention. the PC was still too loud...and that was before the PSU really got going.

another thing i noticed was how much cool air was not going through the CPU cooler but was coming out of the crack between the cooler and the fan. would there be any benefit to using some tape or something to seal off that crack and force the air thorugh the heatsink? would this cause some kind of backpressure or turbulance that would negatively effect the airflow?

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:46 am

I wouldn't worry about the way the air flows through the heatsink, esp if the case fan is installed again. You should definitely experiment w/ varying fan speeds. For me, most 120mm fans need to be under 800rpm to have a chance of sounding quiet.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:23 am

i was running them at 40% setting on the fan controller which would be around 5volts.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:17 pm

IDvsEGO wrote:i was running them at 40% setting on the fan controller which would be around 5volts.

Your last post with illustrations indicates all fans at 100%...

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:11 pm

sorry, I meant before my fan controller died. right now they are at 100%, after the fan controller gets replaced they will be back at 40%

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:37 am

Just picked up an Accelero S1 and a Mugen 2 and will be installing them tonight as well as messing with speedfan to see if I can avoid the hardware fan controller.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:34 pm

Installed both and got some good results.

Accelero S1 on 5830, passive - GPU idle is up, but not huge. from 47C to 54C. Still have to setup furmark to do load testing.

Mugen 2, single stock fan - ran prime for an hour with following 100% load peak temps:

peak temps under 100% load for 1 hour
Core 0 - 50C (-6)
Core 1 - 52C (-5)
Core 2 - 48C (-4)
Core 3 - 49C (-3)

stumbling through speedfan now.

IDvsEGO · Post by **IDvsEGO** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:57 am

pics of installs

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