Silent Workstation | DAW pc

[kees]

Hi,

I want to buy a new reliable and fast computer, to use for audio stuff and pretty heavy tasks once in a while.

I tried to get familiar with all the terminology and facts.

Processor:
It seems Intel are preferred above AMD pretty often these days, is Intel really better atm? My budget is not very large (around 600 euro, but if I need to give some extra for significant improvements, that might be ok with me). I read that the i3 compared to the i5, is very good when it comes to performance/ price balance. For my audio stuff I think it might be enough, what do you think?

For the other tasks, more cores might be good. When is having more cores preferable? The i3 has 'only' 2 cores, while some of the i5 and i7 has 4.

power:
I was planning to buy a Enermax Pro82+ 385 W, I heard they are good. How much W do I need?

Motherboards.
Does it make sense to buy also a Intel MB when having a Intel processor?
Or doesn't it matter and could I also buy a ASUS or MSI? Which of the 3 brands are best (I think it is wise to be able to upgrade to a i7)?

HDD
I read, SSD's are good, but also very expensive... to expensive for my budget I think.
What hdd's are good for audio and silent? How fast should they be?

Is the hdd silent method, described here, still a good approach 4 years later?
silentpcreview DOT com/article272-page7

Case
I like the Antec cases I've seen, esthetically... But I also saw different formats, like a mini-itx and a htpc. What is wise to buy for such a pc?

Memory
Which brand, which type, which speed?


Thanks in advance,

[maalitehdas]

Welcome to the forum kees.
I'm not sure if you're looking for a ready computer or are you going to build one. It's also difficult to help without knowing all kind of stuff, like:
- what kind of connections you need to the back panel?
- what programs are you using?
- do you need video playback? How good?
- do you play modern heavy games?
- are you more into silence and energy efficient stuff or into performance and future upgrade possibilities?

Anyway, here's some thoughts to begin with:

Processor:
Intel is in the lead atm. Audio doesn't require much from CPU, so go with very low budget in this. Think about if onboard video is enough for you too. If you run a lot of programs at the same time, more cores speeds them up - but are you fast enough yourself to reach the benefits of that?

power:
There are good PSU calculators in the internet, use search here or in Google. I would choose a Seasonic, new passive models X-400 and X-460 seems great.

Motherboards.
You can have any MB with the right socket for the chosen CPU. MB should be chosen by connectivity (back panel, expansion slots, memory slots, drive amount, fan amount...) Think about future needs too because it's the most difficult part to change later.

HDD
SPCR recommend hard drives are good. Soft mounting is important to reduce noise. Price of SSD's will surely drop.

Case
Towers are easier to cool quietly, easier to setup and easier to expand. Choose any other type only if your eye or space issues demands it. Antec has very good towers, but search around this forum for good options.

Memory
4Gb of budget memory is better than 2Gb of high-end brands. Audio work does not require DDR3 but you might choose it since it's the modern standard.

I'll add: GPU
If you don't buy a processor with onboard graphics, you need a graphic card (and pciExpress slot for it on the MB). I would recommend Gigabyte Radeon HD5770 Silent Cell 1Gb (passive cooled), but if you are not watching HD or playing much, you can go for a lower budget models.

[bonestonne]

Before saying jump the gun on any hardware, what Audio interface do you plan to be using?

This makes a huge difference before anything else, especially if you're going with a Firewire based unit or USB. If you're going with a PCI based solution, the options are more limited.

Software usually can conform to the hardware pretty well. Pro Tools is extremely picky, but users are generally fine on Intel systems. Running AMD systems can lead to problems, but even that is beginning to smooth out.

The Core i5 750 is probably the most popular "budget DAW" processor I've seen users pick when designing their own computer. Gigabyte motherboards are most popular, but I personally use MSI. Asus does pop up, but surprisingly not nearly as much as anything else.

In terms of RAM, if you're running a Core i* series, you'll need DDR3. I don't think the Core i* series processors have any motherboard options that allow the use of DDR2 RAM.

I do not trust SSD with audio yet, I know there have been lots of advancements with TRIM and other technologies, but I do not trust the read/write amounts when recording or working with audio. The new Western Digital Velociraptor series is very quiet, and plenty large enough, I would say start with those for performance drives if it's in the budget. If not, standard 7200RPM drives are more than enough for audio, and shouldn't give you a problem.

I think before being able to say an i3 is enough, or an i5 is more than enough, it would be better to know what kind of audio work you're doing. If you're scoring movies with 120+ tracks, you're going to need more than an i5 to make it smooth, but if you're just recording the neighbors garage band, a Core i3 could do it with no trouble at all. RAM is very important, and 4 to 8gb is where you want to be if you're doing serious work. Any less and you'll notice some lag, but RAM is not cheap, so moving closer to 12 or 16gb of RAM will cost you a lot.

From my experience 450W is the upper shelf for what you're looking for, power supplies above 450W are overkill, but you don't want to go below 300, because you're starving the system.

I do recording/editing/mastering and production with my computer, and my Core 2 Quad gets the job done. I wouldn't mind having something a little faster at times, but for the budget I had at the time, and the upgrade path I selected, it worked out in the long run.

AMD might be cheaper for the power you could get out of it, but again, it depends on what you're going to use for editing audio. Considering I primarily do audio work, and know that the hardware and software is very touchy, I find the audio to take priority over what games you may want to play on it.

[kees]

Thanks for the replies, great!

Yes, I want to build the components into a pc myself.

I use Linux for audio work, Ardour, JACK and all that good stuff.

I have a m-audio audiophile pci now, but I think it would be wise to be able to have possibilities for firewire and usb (3!??) also.
Atm I have also a pci wireless card and a pci TV card. I have one usb extern hdd.

My audio stuff is more close to a garage band then a complete orchestra atm. But I would like to have some upgrade possibilities, you never know where inspiration takes me... I don't know which components are easy to sell second hand and which are not.

But I also use it for building large file images sometimes, then more cores might be good...

In this review I read that the i5's doesn't give me much more then a i3. In other words the price / performance rate of the i3 is much better... So I think I have to choose between i3, i7 or AMD multi-core...
www DOT anandtech DOT com/show/2901/7

Ok, a AMD 4 cores might give me a bit more, but Intel seems to handle heat a bit better and has a integrated gpu... Also not all the software are able to use multi-core (jack2 does) and more cores is only good if I load one core fully right?
It might be good to be able to upgrade to i7. I dunno if this is good possible afterwards.

Performance is important for me, it would be nice if it is fast. Silence and relative energy friendly would be good to.

I read that the PSU should be placed at the bottom of the case... So I need a case which allows me that.

Comments and tips are welcome!

EDIT:
So I think I want a i3 core, but be able to upgrade to i7
a MB with good pci options, but also usb and firewire (MSI or ASUS)
a 'midi' case, with the PSU in the bottom:
- Antec P183 Performance One Super Mid Tower (€ 129)

4 GB memory
Two silent HDDs with + / - 250 GB (but I want room for 4)
Fans to keep the box silent

What do you think? Which specific components are good for this?

[bonestonne]

I was terribly afraid you would mention owning M-Audio gear. Biggest Catch-22 about it is just how picky the hardware is in terms of what motherboards it really works with.

I have a pair of Delta 1010 units that work very well in Ubuntu with Jack and Ardour, but it took a lot for me to get the setup working.

The AP192 is a rare card from what I've noticed, and it's a bit annoying to me, but I'll do what I can to help you out.

In terms of compatibility with hardware, I have a much more extensive list of compatible Intel motherboards, and most of them are from users with Core i5 actually (not so many Core i7 users on the M-Audio forums).

For a Core i7 (LGA1366) I would suggest using a Gigabyte X58A-UD** series board, they're rock solid, but only have one PCI slot. From what I've noticed, it will require some BIOS mods, but it will work out in the long run pretty well.

For a Core i3/i5 (LGA1156) I would suggest using an Asus P7P55D. I know it doesn't give much options, but I'll be honest, I don't exactly have a wide selection of boards with KNOWN compatibility, I rely on what users post in terms of their working setups. There are some boards that are known to have issues with the Delta series, where they simply do not perform on-par at all, and have constant crackles in the recordings, which is downright unacceptable. While M-Audio could be blamed for poor drivers, hardware is advancing at a very rapid pace, which is hard to keep up with for M-Audio, having just been bought out.

You're going to have a very hard time finding a working Core i3/i5/i7 build with more than two PCI slots. If you're not looking for the cutting edge, I could recommend you a very solid Core 2 setup that would give you plenty of power for what you're aiming to do (which seems to be less that what I do on my mobile setups).

I want to be very clear that using an integrated graphics solution may not be the best option for an audio rig, however I haven't had much experience using Core i3's yet, so it's hard for me to say that for sure right now. In Windows, I know that many people have had problems when using integrated graphics solutions while doing audio recording. I do not own any computers that use integrated graphics that are powerful enough for me to test with this, so I'm going to leave the idea in the air because it's very important to keep in mind.

I think AMD would be a cheaper overall build, but at the same time, I have fewer motherboards listed that are AMD and definitely compatible with M-Audio gear, as CPU Throttling has been known to cause many problems in Windows. As I have Throttling completely disabled, I don't know how Ardour would hold up, or if it would be a problem. I can test this over the coming week, but being a full time student again, I can't say I'll definitely have time to test it tonight or tomorrow.

I do know that I had lots of trouble getting my Delta 1010's running, but I do have all 16 ins and outs working in Linux, so I have no doubts that the AP192 would work, as long as you have the Envy24 package installed (gives you a control panel for the card).

As of yet, I haven't seen any USB3 audio interfaces, but Firewire is a definite upgrade path, even I'm looking to upgrade to newer firewire units.

Multiple cores are useful for having multiple apps and high loads, but there's no way to say that one app will use a certain core, and it will be separate from another app. Core i7's are insane power, but I'm not sure if you'll ever need that much power.

[kees]

I've never seen problems with m-audio, MB related on Linux...

Are there Motherboards which support i3 and i7?

[bonestonne]

Yes, there are motherboards which support i3, i5 and i7. Recently there have been lots of people having problems with M-Audio Delta series cards with motherboards, caused by IRQ conflicts primarily.

Throttling is also known to cause problems, but I never did testing in Linux first.

I'm more interested in seeing what you have in mind to run rather than what I suggest first, simply to see what hardware you prefer.

It's not so much the software that's giving problems, but the hardware specifically is problematic with Core i* series, that's why I err on the side of caution.

[kees]

Ok, I'll find out whether there are issues, thanks for telling...

The plan is to be able to upgrade from i3 to i7 (e.g. start with an i3 and upgrade later, say 24 months, to i7)

For a good upgrade path, it seems I need

a) a good case
b) a good motherboard (mainbord)

I think I found a good case (see previous message). Next is a motherboard. My plan was to have one of about 100 euro, but because it's an important piece of the setup I might be wise to spend a little more if needed.
For me, it's hard to find a good MB... some suggestions would be handy to start with maybe...
At least MSI shows a list with MBs supporting i3|i5|i7...

[bonestonne]

With M-Audio, I would suggest just starting with a mid-high range Core i5 rather than an i3, because the i5 may last a lot longer than the i3, and may prove to save you money in the long run (may never need to update to Core i7).

I see most success with Gigabyte motherboards actually, so I would look at them as well. MSI is what I've personally used for the past 4 years, and I have no complaints about them, so I think that's also an option.

I would suggest using the Core i5 750 to be honest, and getting a passive graphics card to go with it for best results. Early ATI 5xxx series cards (like the 5450) should be plenty for what you're doing, while using as little power as possible.

Don't forget for upgrading from a very low power CPU to a high power CPU, you'll want a quality power supply, and that should be just as important as the motherboard.

[kees]

I have three MB no-nonsense options atm:

MSI H55-G43
Asus P7H55-V
Intel® Desktop Board DH55HC

...

[bonestonne]

I know that compatibility is not completely advertised, but I would suggest the Asus P7P55D with M-Audio, only because I know that there are others users that definitely have that board working.

From everything I've read, i3, i5 and i7 all work on the P55 chipset, so it seems like it would work well. Core i3 processors with integrated graphics will not be able to use the integrated graphics, but the processor should otherwise work fine.

[kees]

When I read the intro here, it looks like you need a P55 to get dual possibilities for the IGP....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2929

edit: hhm and it would be nice to have firewire

edit2: Hmm I read about fan problems with the enermax PSU. I might go for the well praised Seasonic PSU's, like the Seasonic S12II, 380Watt, ATX (fanless is a bit expensive...)

edit3: 2.5 or 3.5 hdd's?
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article29-page2.html
"We've been recommending 2.5" notebook drives for desktop systems since early 2004."

[bonestonne]

As I said, you will need H55 if you want to use integrated graphics, but I would suggest using a separate graphics card for this. ATI 5xxx series cards are more than capable of doing this task with little power draw (such as the ATI 5450 as I mentioned before).

I'm unsure of the graphics capabilities of the i3, and if you're working with waveforms, you will need a bit more graphics acceleration, not a whole lot, but I would not expect any integrated solution to really pull this off.

For this type of computer, I would not advise using a 2.5" drive. 3.5" only, simply so you don't have to worry about heads parking unnecessarily, as well as other power saving features that may actually get in the way of audio recording.

I put an Enermax Pro87 600W in a Core i7 960 build, and it works wonderfully, I can't complain about anything about that power supply (although if it were modular, I would like it more). I use a Corsair in my computer at home, and love it, but I've never heard anything bad about Seasonic, although the brand is a tad bit expensive.

I still suggest looking at Core i5, simply because the 1156 platform is very restrictive for the Core i7's. You'd get better performance in the long run out of a Core i5, and it may be enough to keep in the long run, rather than replace in a year or two, as sockets could very well change, seeing as 6 core is only on the 1366 platform.

I do not think that an i3 would last you in the long run, and it would be cheaper to buy something faster now, than buy one processor, only to upgrade it several months down the line. Purchasing a mid-range CPU might prove to work well enough to need no upgrades at all, and the Core i5 series is not a hot performance CPU by any means.

I can tell that you're ignoring the i5 series, and that confuses me a lot.

[kees]

I still suggest looking at Core i5, simply because the 1156 platform is very restrictive for the Core i7's.

Could you elaborate?

You'd get better performance in the long run out of a Core i5, and it may be enough to keep in the long run, rather than replace in a year or two, as sockets could very well change, seeing as 6 core is only on the 1366 platform.

I do not think that an i3 would last you in the long run, and it would be cheaper to buy something faster now, than buy one processor, only to upgrade it several months down the line. Purchasing a mid-range CPU might prove to work well enough to need no upgrades at all, and the Core i5 series is not a hot performance CPU by any means.

I can tell that you're ignoring the i5 series, and that confuses me a lot.

That's because of this review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2901/7
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2901/16
To me it looks like the i5 is priced way to high compared to a i3.
That made me think, i3 or i7...

Also I choose for more GHz per core instead of more cores with less GHz per core...

[bonestonne]

http://www.overclockers.com/core-i7-hea ... 6-vs-1366/

I realize that overclockers is a good review website, but that comparison is slanted, and I would not use it as a reference, +1 for anyone who can tell me why its a poor review.

I understand the debate, but I think it's important to not say that Core i5 is too expensive, because you'll probably spend equal or more money buying a Core i3, and later upgrading to a Core i7. Also, Core i7 does not use integrated graphics, so if you rely on that with a Core i3 to start, you will spend extra money adding a graphics card to get that Core i7.

I think there are a lot more environmental variables that are coming into play at this point, where if you go with a Core i3, you'll start out with a cheap, but possibly weak build. If you go with a Core i5, you'll need a graphics card, but it will carry into the i7 upgrade if you still want it.

If you think you're going to upgrade, you should take all the costs into consideration, even if prices will change, you need to keep in mind, even upgrading later might cost you more than buying the higher power system now.

[kees]

I was talking about an other review, but alas.

You might be right, that from a upgrade perspective a i5 isn't a bad idea. A core 4 is also more futureproof likely.

I will think about it.

[kees]

possible setup:

Processor: i5 750
Heatsink: ?
MB: Asus P7P55D
Memory: Corsair XMS3 4GB(2x2GB) PC3-10666
HDD: 2 x Western Digital WD5000AADS (Bulk, Caviar Green) (500GB)
case: Antec SOLO
Fan: Nexus 120mm Real Silent case fan
DVD: Lite-On iHAS124 24xDVDRW
PSU: Seasonic S12II, 380Watt, ATX
Screen: Lenovo L1951p 19" or ThinkVision L197 19inch (1440x900) Wide Flat Panel LCD (Analog/Digital) HDCP TCO 03,MPR-II

[joetekubi]

I use Linux for audio work, Ardour, JACK and all that good stuff.

I have a m-audio audiophile pci now, but I think it would be wise to be able to have possibilities for firewire and usb (3!??) also.
Atm I have also a pci wireless card and a pci TV card. I have one usb extern hdd.

My audio stuff is more close to a garage band then a complete orchestra atm. But I would like to have some upgrade possibilities, you never know where inspiration takes me... I don't know which components are easy to sell second hand and which are not.

There is no better expert than bonnestone concerning M-Audio and Linux.
I had an M-Audio 2496 PCI card in my linux system for a long time, and after a lot of head-scratching and tweaking, it did almost everything I needed. Real good audio quality.

I have both an i7 desktop, and a recent buy of an HP laptop with an i5.
Both are really very nice.

My advice is really concerning Ardour.
If you use it with 4-8 tracks, probably an i3 or i5 would work fine (I don't run Ardour myself). If you need more tracks, or anticipate using 8-16 tracks, an i7 will work much better.
If you use 100-200MB audio files, 4GB ram will be fine. If you use much bigger files, you may need more system ram.

HTH,
-joe

[bonestonne]

http://www.kwikpiks.com/files/129/ardour2xdelta1010.png

If you carefully look at that screenshot, you'll see how I've got my Delta 1010's set up, the IRQs for each card are listed in the top bar of the window, which is the only way to differentiate between them.

Ardour is a lot more picky than people expect it to be, but I agree 100% with joetekubi about what it will demand at different workloads.

I agree fully with the specs you've posted (kees) however I would not use WD Green series for audio work, your may experience buffer overflow, which will kill you (I had buffer overflow happen in Pro Tools actually, killed a set I was trying to record**).

For a heatsink, I would suggest the Scythe Ninja 3, I put it in an i7 960 build and loved it, but the mounting is a PITA. If you find the stock cooling to not be enough, I would suggest looking at Scythe, Thermalright and Noctua coolers, but the prices are different everywhere, so it really depends on availability and personal preference.

I'm not too picky about screens, but I run a pair of 22" monitors on my desktop for audio work, but I only use it when I have projects to do.

**I run a WD Raptor as my OS drive, and my other drives are 7200RPM. Since my scratch disk is a 7200 and not 10k, the buffer overflow hit after 3 hours of recording because it just stopped keeping up. PT fault, because it's never happened in any other software, but important to keep in mind.

[~El~Jefe~]

You dont need a raptor, but it is a great drive just the same.

Samsung enterprise 1TB drive, or a 1.5 TB drive.

The more TB's you have the faster it records. Dense = cheap speed. Just get BLack editions of samsungs are fast enough for audio.


My 1TB samsung is raid ready and smooth and fast.

Can you buy AMD for doing this? a 1055 6 core is kinda pimp. On board HIGH QUALITY non crap video is great as well. I would even just use a AMD 965 to be honest, for 160 bucks it would rock audio, plus like a 90 dollar board. I know 750 is a good idea, I just hate the 55 series +intel graphics personally. hm. trying to save you money shrugs. I havea 1090T, spent 507 dollars total for grand kama cross, msi 890GX board with 4290 gfx, 8 gigs 1333mhz ram, and some connector thingies.

[bonestonne]

M-Audio and AMD have problems, at least in the Delta series, I'm still researching fixes for that, but it will take time, and I would advise using Intel where you can definitely disable speedstep in the BIOS without any problems.

[ist.martin]

...
In this review I read that the i5's doesn't give me much more then a i3. In other words the price / performance rate of the i3 is much better... So I think I have to choose between i3, i7 or AMD multi-core...

i3 530 = 2,717
i5 760 = 4,532
i7 950 = 6,279

Those are CPU Mark scores. The i5 is 67% faster than the i3! I think the i3 is more for people who really need the HD IGP, and the i5 for those who need raw horsepower. The jump form the i3 to the i5 is a much greater percentage than a jump to an i7 from an i5.

[bonestonne]

I'm wondering if this is still in the works....

has kees left the building?

[kees]

Hmm was really doubting about the case. I believe a p183 is the most safe way to get a silent pc, but I think it's to big. The factal design R3 seems to be a good alternative, but I read some experience users still prefer the solo above the R3. So I might go for the solo then, you have to make choices at the end!

case: antec solo
heatsink: Prolimatech Megahalems
rear fan: Nexus 120mm Real Silent case fan (?)
cpu fan: Nexus 120mm Real Silent case fan (Do I need a special cpu fan? How to mount it?)
mobo: ASUS P7P55D
psu: Nexus Value 430 or Enermax Pro82+ (?)
memory: Corsair XMS3 4GB(2x2GB) PC3-10666/1333MHz
hdd: WD AV GP 500GB SATA II 32MB
hdd 2:
fan controller: Kaze Server (how to mount it on a solo?)

[Solo]

Have you thought about using the Seasonic X-series power supplies; such as the fanless ones? (someone mentioned it before) Similar ones are the Enermax 87+ PSUs, and other 80+ Gold efficiency rated power supplies.

I like that when doing very little you don't get much noise; I can live with noise if I'm actually taxing the computer but it's annoying to have constant noise when you're trying to think in silence (or recording sound?)

Also, have you considered getting twin hard drives for RAID 1? I'm a little wary of losing data to a hard drive failure; if your created content is your living or your life's work then it'd be a shame to lose it that way. P55 chipset boards should generally have the ICH10R part that allows onboard RAID.

[kees]

Have you thought about using the Seasonic X-series power supplies; such as the fanless ones? (someone mentioned it before) Similar ones are the Enermax 87+ PSUs, and other 80+ Gold efficiency rated power supplies.

I like that when doing very little you don't get much noise; I can live with noise if I'm actually taxing the computer but it's annoying to have constant noise when you're trying to think in silence (or recording sound?)

Also, have you considered getting twin hard drives for RAID 1? I'm a little wary of losing data to a hard drive failure; if your created content is your living or your life's work then it'd be a shame to lose it that way. P55 chipset boards should generally have the ICH10R part that allows onboard RAID.

Yes, I have thought about the fanless ones. Maybe I should look at them again... and see how it should be mounted with a fan. Do I need an extra fan, or is the antec solo rear fan enough? The nexus value is a recommended psu by spcr. I read about fan problems with the enermax Pro82+, that's why I thought of buying the nexus.

edit: quote = MikeC

have to be honest -- even tho I gave it an editor's choice, I'm not a big fan of the Nexus value 430. I know that sounds contradictory... but I think this is at best a medium quality PSU using older technology & priced way too high for what it is. (if you have any fan swapping ability, any number of other PSUs would be way better w/a fan swap). At the time of the review, it was the quietest PSU ever, which seemed to serve an EC... but in retrospect, it's not really good enough in other ways to match other EC PSUs. I've also had incompatibilities with one not allowing several PCs to go into sleep mode.

I must say I get a bit flabbergasted on spcr... most of the time by MikeC It seems he has helped antec with the p180 build, but when I read messages on the forum board I read about his preference for the antec solo... I thought the Nexus value 430 was a good thing... apparently false....

[Solo]

Yes, I have thought about the fanless ones. Maybe I should look at them again... and see how it should be mounted with a fan. Do I need an extra fan, or is the antec solo rear fan enough? The nexus value is a recommended psu by spcr. I read about fan problems with the enermax Pro82+, that's why I thought of buying the nexus.

The SPCR review indicates that the fanless Seasonic PSUs should be pretty reliable with minimal airflow, such that I'd be happy running it in moderate indoor temperatures in a system that's not completely fanless.

I must say I get a bit flabbergasted on spcr... most of the time by MikeC It seems he has helped antec with the p180 build, but when I read messages on the forum board I read about his preference for the antec solo... I thought the Nexus value 430 was a good thing... apparently false....

Maybe it was good at the time! I suppose you'd have to take the 'Value' in the name for what it's worth - not bad for the price you pay.

[kees]

If the seasonic x-400 works in a antec solo case, with an i5 760, it could be the best of both worlds... But does it work...(e.g. not to hot, silent system)???

[kater]

If I were ever to sell a kidney and afford the gorgeous SS X 400, I'd put in in a case with bottom mount. After all, this particular PSU (even more so than it's bigger X brothers) was made to work in cases allowing at least some convection. I know, it'll definitely handle your load (not very high) in a Solo or any other "traditional" case, but that's not the point. The PSU will work perfectly, you'll love it and all, but you'll be paying thru the nose only to have a PSU that, in terms of noise, will not be very helpful.

Also, if you're thinking of RAIDing your drives for safety, then with two bare 3,5" drives (green, eco, 5400, 5900, pipeline, whatever) you might just as well go for a PSU with a fan. You simply won't benefit from having a fanless PSU in this setup. Especially that you'll have at least 2 other fans in the PC.

[kees]

Hmm thanks. You also pay for 5 years warranty...

I just realised that the Seasonic X-650 is a cross between passive and active cooling, and the x-400 is just fanless.

Let me think about it...

What is a good psu with fan, now the nexus seems not be optimal these days and the enermax seems to have issues (?)

edit: also, which fan do I need for the heatsink? How do I mount it on the heatsink? On top of it or on the side?