Please comment on my system

[rendel]

Hi,

I plan to build a new system later this year that I will use as an all-purpose pc.

I will mainly work in virtual machines, may play the occasional HD-movie and now and then compile a linux-kernel. I do not intend to use it as a gaming-platform.

I would like to keep the total price below 487.90 Euros (then it is tax-deductible in one year, otherwise I would have to depreciate it over 3 years - the point is not so much saving money but keeping my tax-declarations simple). However this is not a hard rule, I would be willing to spend more provided I can see the extra value.

What I am looking for is a quiet system (as quiet as it can get for this sort of money) but at the same time I want a system that is also easy to build. I don't want to use components (e.g. CPU-fans) that are very hard to install.

Once I have assembled this system I will then probably upgrade it a bit next year (another hard-drive for a RAID, possibly a dedicated video-card, possibly dedicated sound-card etc).

Here the components I am thinking about at the moment (prices in euros - I buy in Germany):

Case: Antec Solo (81.45)
PSU: be quiet! Pure Power 430W (44.85)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 (128.99)
CPU-Fan: Scythe Big Shuriken (23.19)
Mainboard: ASUS M4A88T-M (66.89)
RAM: 4GB-Kit Kingston HyperX DDR3 (57.07)
HD: Samsung SpinPoint F3 1 TB (45,78)

Total: 448,22

I plan to run only Linux, so I don't need a Windows-licence.

Any comments are welcome...

Many thanks!

[quest_for_silence]

Any comments are welcome...

Do you take any real and substantial advantage from having four cores for compiling kernel, or managing the VMs (how many?)?

If no, a dual core or triple cores Athlon II it is better suited and you save a lot of money (clock per clock you should not have any real advantage going for a Phenom or a quad).
If yes, the lower end six core Thubans (1035t-1045t-1055t) may be better suited ( http://skinflint.co.uk/de/a517723.html ) for a small increase in cost.

However, the Big Shuriken doesn't seem the best candidate for any cpu with TDP > 65W (even if it can handle fine a 95W cpu): for that price, you may do better choosing something like the CoolerMaster 212 ( http://skinflint.co.uk/de/?a=435176 ).

About the disk drive, I rather quieter 2.5 drives, but they are usually smaller and slower, so I don't know if they can fit to you.

Eventually, I don't know your PSU: the only reference I have (Au-Ja) it's that it should be as quiet as the Nexus 8500, so for that price I haven't any better candidate to suggest for quietness until you are under 200W DC as total power consumption.
Maybe the Be-Quiet E7 400W (instead of your L7 430W) could be slightly quieter at idle for the same price (as Au-Ja says).
With reference to quietness, the Antec TP-550 should be substantially better at idle (and it is semi-modular), but I mean it costs at least 20 euro more than both BQT L7 and E7, and moreover it has got not so good user ratings for reliability on NewEgg (about ~18% failure rate among verified owners).
Even some Enermax PSU (ECO80+ II EES400AWT II 400W, LibertyECO II ELT400AWT-ECO II 400W, Enermax PRO82+ EPR425AWT 425W, I don't know if even the Enermax PRO82+ II EPR425AWT II) could be noticeably quieter alternatives, but for at least 10-15 euro more than BQTs, and they should sport proprietary fans (not easy to replace, if in case).

[rendel]

Hi,

thanks for your reply, you raised some good points.

What I want to use the system for is to virtualize small networks (I guess 4-6 VMs running simultaniously). For that I do expect gains from having more cores and I definitely expect gains when compiling kernels (as that can be done in parallel and should use all available cores).

Also (I forgot to mention this) I may do the occasional video transcoding where more cores should also help.

Where I would buy hardware I cannot find a triple-core Athlons (only 2-core or 4-core ones), the 4-core costing around 25 Euro less than the Phenom (so not a huge saving).

As for the 6-cores I can only find 1055t and better, which would mean 50 Euros extra, which may be worth it - I have not decided yet.

As for the CPU-fan I am reluctant to use the CoolerMaster 212 as I have read that it is rather difficult to install...
Are there any other fans you could recommend (and btw: why would you say that the Big Shuriken would not be optimal?)?

Finally: Would the fan that is best for a Phenom II x4 955 also be optimal for a Phenom II x6 1055t or would the choice of the processor impact the choice of a fan?

Many thanks!

[MikeC]

CoolerMaster 212 is amazing value & much more effective a cooler than SBS. It'll work fine w/ any of the mentioned CPUs.

Probably easier to install than the SBS -- that thing is v. good but so low in profile that it is really hard to get your fingers under it to clip it. At least one nick or cut on a finger is the norm with SBS.

Consider a replacement fan for the Antec Solo too. You could try the case fan on low first, it might be good enough for you. If not, it's cheap and easy to swap out.

As for the HDD, if it is suspended in the Solo, it'll be pretty darn quiet.

We have not tested bequiet PSUs in quite a while, so have no references. You would probably be safer choosing from spcr's recommended list. (check main site)

Make sure you can adjust the speed of both CPU and case fan -- a good mobo will allow manual adjust in BIOS of fan headers but you might have to resort to an external hardware fan controller.

[rendel]

Thanks for your reply.

Probably easier to install than the SBS

Ok - then I'll go for a Coolermaster. However being easier than the SBS does not make is easy to install - it still requires some patience I guess?

Consider a replacement fan for the Antec Solo too. You could try the case fan on low first

Yes - that is my plan. I try to build a 490 Euro system first and once I have it running I'll probably upgrade it in January. I'll try the fans that come with the Solo first, maybe I am lucky, otherwise I' swap then for something else (any recommendations?).

As for the HDD, if it is suspended in the Solo

One of the main reasons I have picked the Solo. However I also read somewhere that suspension is not as important anymore with the newer generation of drives - is that true?

Code: Select all

We have not tested bequiet PSUs in quite a while

It was recommended to me by a small local hardware dealer (from previous experience I trust that the people there normally know what they are talking about), so maybe it's time for you to test them again (in the next 4 weeks if you can

[quest_for_silence]

What I want to use the system for is to virtualize small networks (I guess 4-6 VMs running simultaniously). For that I do expect gains from having more cores and I definitely expect gains when compiling kernels (as that can be done in parallel and should use all available cores).

Also (I forgot to mention this) I may do the occasional video transcoding where more cores should also help.

Where I would buy hardware I cannot find a triple-core Athlons (only 2-core or 4-core ones), the 4-core costing around 25 Euro less than the Phenom (so not a huge saving).

With transcoding and heavy multitasking the L3 cache of Phenom II should do really count: so I guess you should stick on Deneb/Thuban.

As for the 6-cores I can only find 1055t and better, which would mean 50 Euros extra, which may be worth it - I have not decided yet.

Well, I mean your source isn't among the most economical ones, but if you want to run 6 VMs it seems the best way to go.

Please take note: if the quoted 955 is a C2 stepping code cpu, you should do better to go for another one (a 965BE C3 for example): C3 Denebs are far more efficient than C2 ones, and it really counts for a server.

As for the CPU-fan I am reluctant to use the CoolerMaster 212 as I have read that it is rather difficult to install...
Are there any other fans you could recommend (and btw: why would you say that the Big Shuriken would not be optimal?)?

Because I own it: in my experience any cpu >65W would run a lot hotter but needlessly. On a 125W cpu is just over its capabilities (if you want to run it quietly and even if you would run it loudly, at load it will be too much stressed).

It's not a fault, it's just a compact heatsink to be used in small cases. Moreover, the Solo isn't the best for airflow.

Finally: Would the fan that is best for a Phenom II x4 955 also be optimal for a Phenom II x6 1055t or would the choice of the processor impact the choice of a fan?

The 1055T should be more energy efficient than any Phenom II X4: just for example, an advised forumer, 1337, found the 1090T about on par on idle and low on load than a Phenom II X4 965 C3, while this latter is even running hotter. So the CM212 would handle a Thuban more than adequately.

The only drawback for the CM212 is that its fan is much louder than the Scythe IF NOT SUBSTANTIALLY UNDERVOLTED (under 9V).
So you really need either a good system to control fans (software, as speedfan on Win or fancontrol on Linux - or hardware, like a Scythe Kaze Server), or to swap the fan (with something cheap and good, such as some Scythe or Nexus).

Probably easier to install than the SBS

Ok - then I'll go for a Coolermaster. However being easier than the SBS does not make is easy to install - it still requires some patience I guess?

I suppose you've already give a look at http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1046-page6.html
It's just as long as screwing four screws (for AMD), but easy to do and very tight, one of the most secure around.

Consider a replacement fan for the Antec Solo too. You could try the case fan on low first

Yes - that is my plan. I try to build a 490 Euro system first and once I have it running I'll probably upgrade it in January. I'll try the fans that come with the Solo first, maybe I am lucky, otherwise I' swap then for something else (any recommendations?).

The usual SPCR champions: Scythe Slipstream or Nexus Real Silent Case Fan would do the job perfectly fine.

As for the HDD, if it is suspended in the Solo

One of the main reasons I have picked the Solo. However I also read somewhere that suspension is not as important anymore with the newer generation of drives - is that true?

In my experience it's not true: however, generally speaking, perceived noise is also function of distance from ears.

We have not tested bequiet PSUs in quite a while

It was recommended to me by a small local hardware dealer (from previous experience I trust that the people there normally know what they are talking about), so maybe it's time for you to test them again (in the next 4 weeks if you can

Maybe: but american markets are different from european ones.

Usually the website Au-Ja is a trustful reviewer: however, their noise floor seems maybe a bit high to fully bank on those results, and moreover they usually report only idle noise.

Just as an example, when SPCR set the semi-anechoic chamber going, several PSUs with previously similar measured noise levels showed a very much bigger difference in those noise levels.

In these respects, the advise to go for a more proven design isn't bad at all, I've already pointed you out some ones which are not too much more costly than the BQTs (which, to be fair, they are well considered from lots of european SPCR readers, as far as I know).

[rendel]

Hi,

again many thanks for your reply.

if the quoted 955 is a C2 stepping code cpu

That is a new aspect for me, thanks for pointing that out. However I have the problem that on the website of the dealer where I wanted to buy the CPU I cannot find any information regarding the stepping. E.g. all I can see is 45nm process and L2 - 4 x 512 KB - L3 6 MB caches - can I derive the stepping from that?

much louder than the Scythe IF NOT SUBSTANTIALLY UNDERVOLTED

How is undervolting the fan achieved? Is that a jumper-setting or a BIOS-setting or some other software?

Moreover, the Solo isn't the best for airflow.

I am open for other options.
Another case I was considering is the new Fractal R3. What turned me off there was that I read that allegedly it is not as solid as the Solo and it contains some dampening material that gives off a bad smell for several weeks...

[MikeC]

Moreover, the Solo isn't the best for airflow.

I am open for other options.
Another case I was considering is the new Fractal R3. What turned me off there was that I read that allegedly it is not as solid as the Solo and it contains some dampening material that gives off a bad smell for several weeks...

For your requirements, the Solo is better. Cooling airflow is only an issue if you have a hot video card that approaches or exceeds ~100W. The Solo does great with just about any CPU w/ a good tower cooler. I have a Radeon HD3850 (75W TDP) w/ stock cooler in mine, a C2D E8500 running some tower HS (forgot which one) with slow 120mm fan on it blowing towards the back case panel fan, which also blows out in the same direction at about the same speed (around 600rpm, methinks). I used to run a couple of 92mm fans at front -- again very low speed -- but I don't use them any more as the suspended HDDs always stay cool enough (mid-40s C at most) and not having those fans on reduces the noise just a bit. There's an Enermax 82+ PSU in there -- its fan is chugging, as so many of those seem to do over time, and that's probably the loudest thing in there. Overall, the PC is still quiet enough that I rarely am aware of its noise under the desk. The captive spring loaded thumbscrews used for the side panel are absolutely the best, and except for early front panel switches, the whole case exudes robust class. It still remains one of my top 2-3 favorite tower style cases.

[quest_for_silence]

can I derive the stepping from that?

No, you can't: the only way is the AMD part numbers.
955 C2 has part number HDZ955FBK4DGI, while if it is boxed (retail), the part number is HDZ955FBGIBOX.
955 C3 has part number HDZ955FBK4DGM, while if the cpu is boxed the part number is HDZ955FBGMBOX.

much louder than the Scythe IF NOT SUBSTANTIALLY UNDERVOLTED

How is undervolting the fan achieved? Is that a jumper-setting or a BIOS-setting or some other software?

You may use an adaptor (a fan cable with a resistor, usually), but this would give you fixed voltage/speed.
So the best way is to use a software (Speedfan for Windows, fancontrol for Linux, I don't know under MacOs-X), or a so called fan controller/rheobus (the one I like the most right now it is the Scythe Kaze Server).
Currently the most flexible solution, and maybe the most effective one, it is to go for a software based solution.

Moreover, the Solo isn't the best for airflow.

I am open for other options.

I was talking just about cpu heatsinks.
Usually inside the most quiet cases (like the Solo is) there is little, or no airflow: therefore it isn't a good idea pairing a small heatsink with an hot cpu in such a scenario.
Aiming at very good quietness, the right solution isn't to choose another case but, as already said, to not use a Scythe Big Shuriken with a 125W cpu inside a Solo.

[accipiter]

You were wondering about some reports of the fractal r3 case having an odd smell. I built a nearly silent pc based around a i5-750, Which never gets warmer than 45C.

The case looks very slick and dosent have any unpleasant odour. You should also be able to suspend HD in this case if you remove a couple of the drive 'draw' caddies first.
I find the case to be sturdy too.

[rendel]

The case looks very slick and dosent have any unpleasant odour.

Did you consider the Antec Solo at all, and if so why did you choose the Fractal R3 in the end?

Would you see any advantages for me in choosing an R3 apart from more space?

Many thanks!

[accipiter]

I was going for the understated 'monolith' look. I tend not to get too wrked up about the tiny details (life really is too short anyway). I read a load of reports about picky problems with the fractal case, but I have no problem, apart from having to look under my desk to check if the PC is turned on as I can barely hear it (quad core with 3 HD's)
I built a system around an antec case a while ago (can't remember the exact model, wheich I didn't really get on with

[1337]

Finally: Would the fan that is best for a Phenom II x4 955 also be optimal for a Phenom II x6 1055t or would the choice of the processor impact the choice of a fan?

The 1055T should be more energy efficient than any Phenom II X4: just for example, an advised forumer, 1337, found the 1090T about on par on idle and low on load than a Phenom II X4 965 C3, while this latter is even running hotter. So the CM212 would handle a Thuban more than adequately.

The only drawback for the CM212 is that its fan is much louder than the Scythe IF NOT SUBSTANTIALLY UNDERVOLTED (under 9V).
So you really need either a good system to control fans (software, as speedfan on Win or fancontrol on Linux - or hardware, like a Scythe Kaze Server), or to swap the fan (with something cheap and good, such as some Scythe or Nexus). ).

Yeah, 1090T is an amazing processor, considering it's an ageing part now and the line-up is going to get refreshed soon with new parts. You will see / see many 1090T going on sale for about $180-220 in anticipation of a new product.

I don't like the 1055T 125W part, to be frank. Power-wise it's about the same as 1090T but running at lower clocks, not quite as efficient. The 95W part is a completely different story, about 3W less at idle and obviously on load. The best thing of all 95W Thubans, they are all nicely-binned to realibly run at higher temps, 70C from 62C. I have done some tests and been really amazed. I had 1055T 95W running @ 73C with no problems for a few hours. The only downside was increased power consumption but that was expected due to the current increases, about 20W on top if you are curious.

1035T/1045T/1055T 95W overclock like crazy. On stock voltage I run 1035T @ 3.2 Ghz transcoding stuff 24/7. That was just a nice balance, performance per watt.

I also have a CoolerMaster 212 Plus in place. Stock fan @ 800 RPM is reasonably quiet and provides decent cooling. Unlike Noctua fans, this at least has PWM so it can be easily controlled with SpeedFan. It does look cheap though but it gets the job done nevertheless. Definitely worth the money.

The newer 970 Deneb runs slightly cooler than its predecessor but not as cool as Thuban, so its true value is still very much questionable. If you want a quad-core, it makes more sense to buy an Athlon II X4 645/615E. Otherwise X6 is the way to go. Single threaded apps are going to be history very soon.

be quiet! are nice psus, I have a couple. Their latest 300W Pure Power is more energy efficient than my Seasonic II 330W, albeit not by much. One thing for sure, be quiet! is definitely quieter under load, so you save yourself a fan replace in the future. They also have very nice service in mainland Germany.

The setup you have mentioned will consume maximum 150W on load. Every be quiet! has some overhead and peaks are decent. Not sure why you still want to go with 450W, at lower loads they are not efficient at all. Expect to dissipate a lot of heat inside your case.

Also, Kingston Hyper are a waste. Get regular Kingston ValueRAM if you must or better yet, get Micron/Crucial. 2x4GB might prove to be a more sound "investment" since you are in to ram hungry stuff.

I don't like ASUS due to their higher power consumption, I would pick an MSI board any day. Anything recent with USB 3.0 should do you well. Main thing here is the "back plate", you have to like it.

And finally, as much as I hate Win7... it's a bit more power efficient than XP as a whole but more importantly it is faster when it comes to switching power states of the multi-core processors. Sadly, XP hasn't seen proper support... in many areas, not just the CPU department. Buying Win7 OEM w/ parts will save you some $.

[rendel]

Thanks a lot for all replies so far - this is really one of the most useful forums I have ever seen.

In the meantime I have decided to go with a 6-core (probably a 1055T, but maybe a 1075 or a 1090) as the price difference to a 4-core is negligible.

I have also (more or less) decided to go with will use the Coolermaster fan and the Antec Solo case.

The setup you have mentioned will consume maximum 150W on load.

That is the thing I am still thinking about.
I do intend to add components to the system later (definitely another hard disk, maybe a TV-card, maybe a graphics card etc).

I do not want to spend extra money / produce extra heat/noise for power I do not really need, on the other hand I don't want to limit myself later on too much.

I even started another thread in this forum, the gist of that being that people recommend the 400-500W range...

[1337]

Todays' mid-range graphics cards like to consume about 10 to 15w doing nothing, under load it could go as high as 100w but it depends on the make. High-end cards idle around roughly 20-30w... under load 200w easily. You go crossfire you double it. It's crazy. I suggest you study this first. Performance per watt section is extremely useful.