System rebuild, big sinks: preparing for Bulldozer

[Camacha]

Summer 2009, I built a system on the basis of a P4. Yes, that was and is quite an aging chip, but I could get it and some other components for free and didn't have a lot of money to spend at the time. The money I did spend, however, was spend on carefully selected components, so I could keep on using them if I would want to upgrade my CPU. The PC was called after it's origins: Junkyard.

Now, I've saved some money for a total upgrade. However, I really want to build a rig based on the new AMD Bulldozer platform (or equivalent Intel, if it disappoints) and that won't be with us until summer next year. Since I really would like to get on with things (and play a nice game once in a while or be able to work on my portfolio in a decent way) and since I could trade an X2 4800+ with motherboard and soundcard for three cases of beer, I decided to partially upgrade for now. I'm going to ready my new case and everything in it for the big upgrade next year, while assuring I pick quality components so that the total rig will be awesome when I get my hands on Bulldozer. Nothing should remind me of the pick-and-choose P4 rig I'm currently using. This will be something totally different from Junkyard alltogether (I'm looking for a good name, suggestions are welcome).

I think it's important to lay the groundrules for my builds:
- It is (of course) important that it's reasonably quiet. Quieter than most people require, but not at every cost and since the environment here is quite noisy total silence is not necessary.
- Performance is important. Again, not at every cost, but I'm willing to make a few sacrifices to this end.
- Looks are important, but should be functional. I am for example, a nitpick when it comes to matching the color of the CD-player or fancontroller to the color of the plastic of my case. Those things can irritate me and don't have to come with functional costs. However, something like cablesleeving that looks nice but defies the point (since it actually increases air resistance) is not desirable. Exceptions are to be made at my discretion, it's what I'm a designer for
- Quality components. They don't have to be expensive nor exotic, but I want good, decent components I can rely on. Bang-for-the-buck is a term that springs to mind; good, highly usable, durable and not too expensive.

So, I've got the following components from the P4 build:

- 1 TB Caviar Black WD1001FALS (not too quiet, but this is where I choose performance over silence)
- Icidu 3,5" USB2 card reader (yes, it's cheap, but it does the job; no need to spend lots of money on something like a card reader)
- Sapphire HD4770 512 MB
- 3 GB DDR400 RAM
- Nexus Value 430 PSU

I've bought in the mean time:

- Scythe Mugen 2 rev. B (compatible with 775, AM2, AM3 (and thus the next AMD platform) and lot's of other sockets)
- Antec P180 case (yes, the SPCR original! )
- Windows 7 Professional

I've obtained:

- AMD X2 4800+ Toledo (yes, the hot one, unfortunately)
- Asus A8N-SLI motherboard
- Creative Xi-Fi soundcard (not sure whether I'll use this)

I think I'm pretty close to where I want to be. I'm thinking of overclocking the X2 as far as I feel comfortable with and up to sound levels I can bear. That should give me decent performance for a while and should be a nice upgrade over the P4. It probably won't play the newest games on high settings, but it should do.
I wasn't sure whether to keep my HD4770, to use my HD4670 or to buy another card, but I think I'll just overclock my HD4770 as far as possible too. It's quite a cool card and should be able to power me reasonably through even modern games. It's no use buying a fancy new card if I'll upgrade again in 9 months and I think the HD4670 is a nice card but not powerful enough to suit my needs. I guess I'll sell it and add the money to my savings.

I was thinking of adding:

- 6 Nexus Real Silent 120mm fans (so I can replace the tri-cools, since these are apparantly quieter)
- 1 Nexus Real Silent 120mm PWM fan (it's supposed to be quieter than the Scythe that comes with the Mugen)
- Removed from list since it's too noisy. Will use with Mugen 2 included Scythe Slip Stream 120 PWM, but am open to suggestions.
- MX-3 thermal paste (wanted to use Diamond Carat 7 before, but I'm scared it'll scouer off the markings of the new CPU when it's released, voiding any warranty)
- Replaced with MX-4, since the performance is about the same and application is supposed to be much easier
- Accelero S1 rev. 2, to be used with a Nexus Real Silent fan (for maximum overclock on the HD4770, I think it should fit with some minor modifications. It's okay if I can't reuse it due to modding it since it's cheap)
- NZXT Sentry 2 fancontroller

Remember, the components should be usable in a quality high-end rig. I'm not quite sure about the fancontroller. Even though it doesn't have turning knobs and you can't see all the fanspeeds at once, it ticks all the other boxes: not too expensive, good quality, lots of fans, auto control and the ability to turn the backlight off, which actually makes it quite subtle (even though it's visually loud when turned on).
Also, I'm not sure about what DVD-burner to choose. I want it to match the color of my case, to have Lightscribe capabilities (yes, I actually use it) and to be quiet enough to watch movies with, since I don't have any other DVD-player anymore (HDMI to my TV).
Finally, I think I'll need some thermal glue to glue the memory heatsinks to my HD4770; I don't really trust the supplied thermal pads as they've been known to fall off. Any suggestions?

So, that do you think of the parts I selected and the reasons why I selected them? Any comments and/or suggestions are more than welcome!

[quest_for_silence]

I was thinking of adding:

- 6 Nexus Real Silent 120mm fans (so I can replace the tri-cools, since these are apparantly quieter)

They are far quieter: but do you really need 6 fans?

- 1 Nexus Real Silent 120mm PWM fan (it's supposed to be quieter than the Scythe that comes with the Mugen)

Absolutely no: avoid the Nexus PWM, it isn't quieter than the Scythe PWM, it isn't either as quiet as that Scythe. But you may use a 3pin Nexus if your motherboard allow it.

- NZXT Sentry 2 fancontroller

Scythe Kaze Server 5,25, nothing less with all these fans.

Finally, I think I'll need some thermal glue to glue the memory heatsinks to my HD4770; I don't really trust the supplied thermal pads as they've been known to fall off. Any suggestions?

Arctic Silver Alumina Thermal Adesive.

[Camacha]

They are far quieter: but do you really need 6 fans?

Maybe I should have been more specific. I will order 6 fans, but at first I will replace the three TriCools currently present in my case (two out, one on the bottem). Then I want to:

- Add one as an intake, I feel that would be a valuable addition
- Use one to cool the VGA with the Accelero (Even though the VGA-cooler is resonably quiet, I think this will improve things on the performance end. I can run the power of my VGA card and not use the fancontroller).
- See how quiet the CPU PWM-fan is and possibly replace that if necessary

I guess that's all six already. If I don't need the CPU-fan I'll keep it as a spare so if one of the other fans turns out to be a bit noisy I can replace that. Now I'm thinking about it it kind of makes me wonder whether I actually need the bottom fan in de P180, but I guess it's good to keep my hard drive nice and cool and I don't think the Value 430 draws a lot of air either. When you say it like that, 6 actually sounds like quite a lot. I not very sure which ones would be best to leave out, since all are neccesary for a decent airflow.

Absolutely no: avoid the Nexus PWM, it isn't quieter than the Scythe PWM, it isn't either as quiet as that Scythe. But you may use a 3pin Nexus if your motherboard allow it.

Ah, guess I missed that. I thought I read some reviews about the Nexus PWM being quiet, but I guess I'll have to read some more

Scythe Kaze Server 5,25, nothing less with all these fans.

Can you maybe explain your choice? I don't see how a 4-fan fancontroller will help me more than a 5-fan controller (like I said, the VGA could possibly go off the PCB and the bottom one can easily be used with an in-line, since it's not neccesary to change that one a lot).

Arctic Silver Alumina Thermal Adesive.

That seems to be the only one indeed. I guess there's not much competition in this field.

Thanks for your input!

[quest_for_silence]

When you say it like that, 6 actually sounds like quite a lot. I not very sure which ones would be best to leave out, since all are neccesary for a decent airflow.

You have no SLI/CFX (it's where the P18x really suffers IME), have no high power draw (so the PSU won't overheat), you have no tons of drives tightly packed: therefore I still continue to not see the need for more than 2 case fans (one exhaust, one on the VGA) but, hey, it's your toy, you really know it a lot more than what I might ever figure out.

Ah, guess I missed that. I thought I read some reviews about the Nexus PWM being quiet, but I guess I'll have to read some more

Well, you know, first hand experience matters. I bought this fan thinking it will be sort of a PWM version of the Real Silent Case Fan, I was plainly wrong. It's not so bad, at all, but those fans are not brother under the badge, neither cousins (IME/IMO). Recent Scythes (PWM) can be dialed down to inaudibile levels and with less clicks than most of PWM fans around, IME. They work even better when connected to not PWM headers.
If you want a cheap bet, I mean you may give a try to Arctic Cooling.

Scythe Kaze Server 5,25, nothing less with all these fans.

Can you maybe explain your choice? I don't see how a 4-fan fancontroller will help me more than a 5-fan controller (like I said, the VGA could possibly go off the PCB and the bottom one can easily be used with an in-line, since it's not neccesary to change that one a lot).

Apart you don't need to deserve a channel for each single fan, today the Kaze Server is probably one of the most (if not the most itself) flexible unit around.
It has one of the best voltage ranges (from 3.8V to 11.8V), one of the tightest voltage stability, it can operate in three different modes (manual, semi-automatic, automatic), it has one of the highest power rating per channel, and it is not too much costly (here in Italy starts from 35 euros, the quoted Sentry starts from 25 euros). So it delivers. I always prefers a motherboard with lots of headers (such as the now defunct Abit and DFI, now mostly high end ASUS ones), but when headers are running out now I think to that Scythe.
The T-Balancer family has also a very good reputation, but I've never tried them yet.

Arctic Silver Alumina Thermal Adesive.

That seems to be the only one indeed. I guess there's not much competition in this field.

AFAIK there are also the Arctic Cooling one, but they deserve it to their VGA coolers, and the Arctic Silver Silver Thermal Adhesive, but it's slightly conductive, so I prefer the Alumina.

[Camacha]

Thank you sir, for these excellent replies. You're already helping me a lot.

You have no SLI/CFX (it's where the P18x really suffers IME), have no high power draw (so the PSU won't overheat), you have no tons of drives tightly packed: therefore I still continue to not see the need for more than 2 case fans (one exhaust, one on the VGA) but, hey, it's your toy, you really know it a lot more than what I might ever figure out.

I'm planning to overclock a 110 watt CPU and Bulldozer will have a tdp of either 95 or 125 watt (depending on which version I'll buy). Admittedly the HD4770 isn't going to spoil the party with its 80 watt, but another, higher end card will follow suit. Based on experiments run with my current hardware I'll have to cool about 300-375 watts (measured at the socket).

However, you do make me think about all this, so I will be sure to experiment with different fans turned on and off (and some installed and some not installed). The fans are quite cheap over here, so it's a waste to order less since postage will be about as much again.

Well, you know, first hand experience matters. I bought this fan thinking it will be sort of a PWM version of the Real Silent Case Fan, I was plainly wrong. It's not so bad, at all, but those fans are not brother under the badge, neither cousins (IME/IMO). Recent Scythes (PWM) can be dialed down to inaudibile levels and with less clicks than most of PWM fans around, IME. They work even better when connected to not PWM headers.
If you want a cheap bet, I mean you may give a try to Arctic Cooling.

Very good to know that. I checked some more reviews and you seem to be absolutely right, so I deleted it from my shopping list. I now plan on using the Scythe Slip Stream 120 PWM that came with the Mugen 2, but I wouldn't mind testing an alternative. You speak of Arctic Cooling, but they do seem to have multiple 120 mm PWM models. Do you have any specific model numer(s)?

AFAIK there are also the Arctic Cooling one, but they deserve it to their VGA coolers, and the Arctic Silver Silver Thermal Adhesive, but it's slightly conductive, so I prefer the Alumina.

There seem to be three on sale here: Zalman Thermal Adhesive, Arctic Silver Adhesive and Arctic Alumina Adhesive. You seem to be right about the conductivity of the Silver variety, but apperantly it does cool slightly better. It's tricky bussiness, but I think I prefer the best performing option since the bond is pretty much permanent. Can't seem to find anything about the Zalman Adhesive, not even on their website, so I'm not sure what to make of it. For now I think I'll go with Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive, but I'm not really sure yet.

[danimal]

i seem to recall that the mugen2 comes with thermal paste?

[Camacha]

There seems to be a problem with the NZXT Sentry 2. Combined with some fans it can create a rattling sound that is quite loud, which kind of defies the point. It's not happening with all fans though, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

i seem to recall that the mugen2 comes with thermal paste?

I already have the Mugen 2 here (I got it at the same time I got my case) and I can confirm that, I checked the contents of the box. However, I need to do some more applications (VRM sink, SB sink and VGA sink) and I would like to have maximum performance for a reasonable price, so I will go with aftermarket TIM.

At first I wanted to use MX-3, but after some more research I found MX-4 to perform about the same (the reviews can't decide which one is better, everyone says something different but the difference is small) but spreading much, much better.

[quest_for_silence]

I'm planning to overclock a 110 watt CPU and Bulldozer will have a tdp of either 95 or 125 watt (depending on which version I'll buy). Admittedly the HD4770 isn't going to spoil the party with its 80 watt, but another, higher end card will follow suit. Based on experiments run with my current hardware I'll have to cool about 300-375 watts (measured at the socket).

Until you go for something really hot (I mean a GTX480, or a HD5970), maybe this expected power consumption should be a bit over estimated.

For example, Anandtech gives for the "old" 965BE C2 paired with an HD5870 a maximum power draw of 274W.
If we'd give some credit to some user's review, actual 965BE C3 is more efficient, while high end E0 X6 Thubans are also expected to be even more power wise than X4s (slight less power with two more cores, even if other worthy considering sources give different, somewhat opposite - but still comparable - results).

These data don't give any certainty on the forthcoming Bulldozer, but nonetheless they are somewhat serious clues that real power consumption might be substantially lower than those 375W (when heavily overclocked), and I guess even than those 300W.

If you take into account what you said, and that is your OC should be coped with some overall quietness, I think the things inside your toy won't be too darn hot.

However, having some replacement fans laying around wouldn't be a sin, of course.

You speak of Arctic Cooling, but they do seem to have multiple 120 mm PWM models. Do you have any specific model numer(s)?

AFAIK they have two PWM models (speaking of 120mm ones): go for the standard one, the Pro is less flexible and more fragile (and someone says even a bit noisier) than its cheaper brother. Both should be not exactly quieter at full speed, but hopefully you won't need to run the AC at that speed, nor there aren't any serious contenders for its price.