Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

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lirsch
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Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:48 am

Need your help guys in buying few more components for my new HTPC ...

Already bought: (won't be changed)

CPU
Intel Core i5-2400S 2.50GHz - 65W (yes ... I know ...)

CPU Cooler
Scythe Big Shuriken Low Profile CPU Cooler SCBSK-1000

SSD
OCZ VERTEX 30GB

HDD
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA x 2

Memory
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333 CL8

Need to buy:

- Motherboard
yes ... you've guessed right, going to buy a H67 with the Intel flaw but I'll get a replacement here in my country when the new MOBs will arrive - might be mATX or ATX (is there any benefit for ATX Vs. mATX?)

- PSU
I'll probably buy Enermax Modu87+ 600W

- GPU (optional)
Thought about adding a passive ATI HD5670 for the gaming stuff

- Case
this is my worst nightmare here ... I'm searching for the most quiet, sleek and clean design case that will fit my needs for a HTPC/mid-level gaming system. there are limited models of good cases here in my country, so the components above should all fit in the following available cases:

Antec NSK2400
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7000BNS)
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7001BNS)
Thermaltake DH202 (VJ80001N2Z)
Thermaltake DH103 (VH3001BNS)
Antec Fusion remote max
Silverstone LC17B
Lian Li PC-C31
Silverstone LC16MR or LC16BM or LC16BMR
Zalman HD160
Alutek ALU750B
Alutek ALU7510BS
Zalman HD503
Zalman HD501
Origen X11-B

Please help me ...

Well, for now I'm playing America's Army, Fifa 2011, so my demends on the playing part is not that huge ...
I currently have a 42" Full HD LCD (and a connection to Onkyo 608 reciever) but I can do some compromises because 80% of this system use is for watching movies, using the net, music, photo editing etc... gaming might be ~5-10% of the use.

Fire-Flare
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Fire-Flare » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:02 pm

[quote="lirsch"](is there any benefit for ATX Vs. mATX?)[\quote] Full ATX would allow more add-on cards, that's all.

Micro ATX cases may prove beneficial to you as there's a greater variety of mATX HTPC cases than full ATX ones.

ces
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by ces » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:16 pm

Select a motherboard for which the following memory is on its qualified vendor list:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333 CL8

Then select the case - ITX or Micro ATX

lirsch
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:27 am

ces wrote:Select a motherboard for which the following memory is on its qualified vendor list:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333 CL8

Then select the case - ITX or Micro ATX
Thanks ces.
Why not choosing an ATX case? it will be more spacious and ventilated, isn't it?
Any specific recommendation from the available cases?

Fire-Flare
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Fire-Flare » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:42 pm

lirsch wrote:Why not choosing an ATX case? it will be more spacious and ventilated, isn't it?
Any specific recommendation from the available cases?
Size isn't as big of an issue as airflow, you just want a short path without many obstacles.

Other things to keep in mind are that large fans can move a given amount of air more quietly than small ones, and a video card can effectively divide the inside of a case in half. (This can cause problems in HTPC cases that blow air side to side rather than front to back.)


I've looked through your list and marked the cases that use 60mm fans with a [X] because they rarely push any useful amount of air quietly.

Ones without comment seem acceptable in my opinion and the ones with a smiley are the ones I'd consider for myself.

Alutek ALU750B
Alutek ALU7510BS
Antec Fusion remote max
Antec NSK2400: (This case draws air in from the front and exhausts out the side. Warm air may get trapped at the back of the case.)
Lian Li PC-C31 :D
Origen X11-B
Silverstone LC16BM
Silverstone LC16BMR
Silverstone LC16MR
Silverstone LC17B
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7000BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7001BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH103 (VH3001BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH202 (VJ80001N2Z) [X]
Zalman HD160 [X]
Zalman HD501 :D
Zalman HD503 :D

lirsch
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:08 pm

Fire-Flare wrote:
lirsch wrote:Why not choosing an ATX case? it will be more spacious and ventilated, isn't it?
Any specific recommendation from the available cases?
Size isn't as big of an issue as airflow, you just want a short path without many obstacles.

Other things to keep in mind are that large fans can move a given amount of air more quietly than small ones, and a video card can effectively divide the inside of a case in half. (This can cause problems in HTPC cases that blow air side to side rather than front to back.)


I've looked through your list and marked the cases that use 60mm fans with a [X] because they rarely push any useful amount of air quietly.

Ones without comment seem acceptable in my opinion and the ones with a smiley are the ones I'd consider for myself.

Alutek ALU750B
Alutek ALU7510BS
Antec Fusion remote max
Antec NSK2400: (This case draws air in from the front and exhausts out the side. Warm air may get trapped at the back of the case.)
Lian Li PC-C31 :D
Origen X11-B
Silverstone LC16BM
Silverstone LC16BMR
Silverstone LC16MR
Silverstone LC17B
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7000BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7001BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH103 (VH3001BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH202 (VJ80001N2Z) [X]
Zalman HD160 [X]
Zalman HD501 :D
Zalman HD503 :D
Wow, thank you for the detailed reply.
How would you place the Silverstone GD05 case?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:11 am

Fire-Flare wrote:Antec NSK2400: (This case draws air in from the front and exhausts out the side. Warm air may get trapped at the back of the case.)

IMO it's a silly, somewhat groundless remark.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:15 am

lirsch wrote:How would you place the Silverstone GD05 case?

Are you familiar with the fact that SPCR is a somewhat reputable web reviewer?

lirsch
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:51 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
lirsch wrote:How would you place the Silverstone GD05 case?

Are you familiar with the fact that SPCR is a somewhat reputable web reviewer?
Well, Already read this article fw months ago, but there's nothing like a real user that used it for some months/years, isn't it?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:02 am

lirsch wrote:but there's nothing like a real user that used it for some months/years, isn't it?

I don't think Fire-Flare is a real user of any of the above quoted case, but obviously I may be wrong.
Or are you saying that Lawrence Lee and MikeC are not real users?

At anyway, if you mind you may find a couple of real users of that GD05 here.

MikeC
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by MikeC » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:30 am

Fire-Flare wrote:Antec NSK2400: (This case draws air in from the front and exhausts out the side. Warm air may get trapped at the back of the case.)
Naw, doesn't happen.

Fire-Flare
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Fire-Flare » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:21 pm

MikeC wrote:
Fire-Flare wrote:Antec NSK2400: (This case draws air in from the front and exhausts out the side. Warm air may get trapped at the back of the case.)
Naw, doesn't happen.
I trust you would know better than I, but his Big Shuriken is a down-blower, the product images lead me to believe that it would recycle the air in that corner.

Fire-Flare
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Fire-Flare » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:38 pm

lirsch wrote:
Fire-Flare wrote:
lirsch wrote:Why not choosing an ATX case? it will be more spacious and ventilated, isn't it?
Any specific recommendation from the available cases?
Size isn't as big of an issue as airflow, you just want a short path without many obstacles.

Other things to keep in mind are that large fans can move a given amount of air more quietly than small ones, and a video card can effectively divide the inside of a case in half. (This can cause problems in HTPC cases that blow air side to side rather than front to back.)


I've looked through your list and marked the cases that use 60mm fans with a [X] because they rarely push any useful amount of air quietly.

Ones without comment seem acceptable in my opinion and the ones with a smiley are the ones I'd consider for myself.

Alutek ALU750B
Alutek ALU7510BS
Antec Fusion remote max
Antec NSK2400: (This case draws air in from the front and exhausts out the side. Warm air may get trapped at the back of the case.)
Lian Li PC-C31 :D
Origen X11-B
Silverstone LC16BM
Silverstone LC16BMR
Silverstone LC16MR
Silverstone LC17B
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7000BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH101 (VF7001BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH103 (VH3001BNS) [X]
Thermaltake DH202 (VJ80001N2Z) [X]
Zalman HD160 [X]
Zalman HD501 :D
Zalman HD503 :D
Wow, thank you for the detailed reply.
How would you place the Silverstone GD05 case?
:D
The square buttons might have uncomfortable corners, but they can be filed down. The exposed optical drive is a plus because you won't have to fight a door if the tray jams, and I've used 'golf bladed' fans like that one includes and they have less 'whoosh' noise than traditional ones.

Also I've built an HTPC in a Silverstone ML03B case. It's sturdily constructed and can hold weight on top, the only problem it gave me was finding 4 80mm fans with low RPM and sufficient airflow.

lirsch
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:30 pm

Would Sapphire HD5670 Ultimate fit inside the Silverstone GD05?

Fire-Flare
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Fire-Flare » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:37 pm

lirsch wrote:Would Sapphire HD5670 Ultimate fit inside the Silverstone GD05?
Tough to tell, if so then just barely. I used one until last month and its cooler is just the right size for a 120mm fan to be strapped on.

If it's too tall then a belt sander can remove the top few millimeters without harming anything, so long as the shavings don't cause a short.

Plekto
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Plekto » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:47 am

The most important thing about a case is actually how well it is sealed. Every hole in it lets sound out from the inside. It also disrupts airflow planning. This means you want something with as few intake slots in the front aside from where the front fan would be, and no side panel opening at all. Heavy gauge steel and deadening material like dynamat can also dampen interior noises quite well.

But the biggie is the video card. That card is fine. The GTS450 is about identical. Both can be had with a passive heatsink, which is the big noise maker for most PCs these days.

tim851
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by tim851 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:14 am

Plekto wrote:Both can be had with a passive heatsink, which is the big noise maker for most PCs these days.
Not really. Over the last generations, most graphics cards have become very quiet when they're not running any stressful 3D-applications.

NT
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by NT » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:48 am

@OP RE case selection...

My research may help, "if" you have similar criteria to me, read both in full
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... st18232752
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1253426
For the second thread, def. make sure you read the latter half.

Many of my posts were deleted not long after posting in an attempt to keep the threads streamlined.
It kinda kills context for those reading them for the 1st time, but hopefully you'll still get something out of it

These are just the threads I had going at AVSforum.
I had threads "on the boil" at several other forums, including SPCR for a time.
But I came to the same conclusion in them all...
Last edited by NT on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Plekto
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Plekto » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:58 am

tim851 wrote: Not really. Over the last generations, most graphics cards have become very quiet when they're not running any stressful 3D-applications.
While this is true, it is all still relative. With typical low noise PCs coming in at 20-25db on average, the video card can still be a sore thumb that sticks out above the rest of the machine. A passive or 1 slow fan cooler for a typical video card (Accelero or similar) can be had for very little money and is well worth the money spent, IMO.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:22 am

Plekto wrote:With typical low noise PCs coming in at 20-25db on average, the video card can still be a sore thumb that sticks out above the rest of the machine.

It can, but it also can be very likely quiet (with a careful picking, tim851's point): today there are several videocards (midrange to high end) which work comfortably in 2D within the range 10dB-15dB and, just as an example, the reference GTX 560Ti at gaming loads goes around 22dB.

lirsch
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:46 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
Plekto wrote:With typical low noise PCs coming in at 20-25db on average, the video card can still be a sore thumb that sticks out above the rest of the machine.

It can, but it also can be very likely quiet (with a careful picking, tim851's point): today there are several videocards (midrange to high end) which work comfortably in 2D within the range 10dB-15dB and, just as an example, the reference GTX 560Ti at gaming loads goes around 22dB.
Well, first, I'd like to know whether the NVidia cards can output all the audio formats that the ATI HD5XXX can output, If it's the same, can you please give a reference to this kind of GTX 50Ti card which has a low noise value (10-15dB)?

Plekto
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Plekto » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:36 pm

When either the ATI or NVidisa cards go into 3D "gaming" mode, the fans typically ramp to upwards of 40db or more as tested like SPCR does it (most sites register DB above ambient, which is misleading). A huge passive cooler with a fan on it or near to it is a superb solution to make the video card essentially silent. IMO, it's the best $40 I ever spent on a PC. Because the constant sound of fans isn't the problem. WHat drove me nuts was the video card's fan always revving up and down all the time.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvi ... 45-15.html
Actually, the 560 ti is upwards of 30-35db. That's awesome compared to most cards, but again, when the rest of the system is normally too quiet to hear, it sounds as out of place as the fan on your PS3 does when it gets going. It's not loud, but it certainly is noticeable.

My video car in my machine makes 0db. That's just awesome in an of itself ;)

quest_for_silence
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:06 am

lirsch wrote:Well, first, I'd like to know whether the NVidia cards can output all the audio formats that the ATI HD5XXX can output

I can't help (however, whether or not any Nvidia card can carry multi-channel LPCM, Bitstreaming or whatever HDMI audio feature you might be interested into, I guess it's something you should have to do some homework about).
lirsch wrote:If it's the same, can you please give a reference to this kind of GTX 50Ti card which has a low noise value (10-15dB)?

Apart what I've just said right above, the quietest GTX 560Ti at idle I'm aware of should be the MSI Twin Frozr II, around 12dB (reference design cards like EVGA or Sparkle should go around 15dB), and it's also the quietest Nvidia current card I know, along with the Gainward GTX 570 Goes Like Hell (the Gainward Phantoms might be even better, but I've no data about them, you may ask subjective impressions to a UK co-forumer who has just bought it): AFAIK they are comparable to the well known and appreciated (here on SPCR) MSI R5770 Hawk, with reference to quietness.

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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:33 am

Plekto wrote:When either the ATI or NVidisa cards go into 3D "gaming" mode, the fans typically ramp to upwards of 40db or more

"Typically" admits AFAIK several exceptions, nowadays.
Plekto wrote:A huge passive cooler with a fan on it or near to it is a superb solution to make the video card essentially silent.

IMO the hugest passive cooler can't cool adequately (I mean safely and in every conditions) a 250-300W card (but IME neither a 200W one and I'm playing around a Thermalright Spitfire, right now).
Plekto wrote:WHat drove me nuts was the video card's fan always revving up and down all the time.

It's something you can cure tuning the fans curve or driving the fans by external headers.
Plekto wrote:http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvi ... 45-15.html
Actually, the 560 ti is upwards of 30-35db.

Apart they're talking about total system noise, so to me those data aren't useable at all but, as often pointed out, the THG's (as Anandtech or Xbit Labs ones) charts are quantitatively pointless (even due to the high noise floor).
Plekto wrote:That's awesome compared to most cards, but again, when the rest of the system is normally too quiet to hear, it sounds as out of place as the fan on your PS3 does when it gets going. It's not loud, but it certainly is noticeable.

I think no one is saying that a high performance card won't be noticeable: one of the best results booked here on SPCR, I'm talking about the AC AXP, goes (I mean, safely) around 16-19dB on load (cooling up to a bit more than 200W), a moderately high noise level (or a relatively low) from a silence perspective, but indeed a quite good one with reference to performances (to be fair, playing a less safe trade off the AXP can go as low as 14dB in SPCR test lab).

Plekto
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Plekto » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:59 pm

IMO the hugest passive cooler can't cool adequately (I mean safely and in every conditions) a 250-300W card (but IME neither a 200W one and I'm playing around a Thermalright Spitfire, right now).

True. You're kind of boned if you are running a heat monster like that. But a lot of cards can be had that are decently fast in the 100-150W range, and that can easily be handled by drawing air over the card. My favorite "trick" is a slot cooler fan placed 1 slot away from the thing (yes, it all occupies 4 slots in the case) under-volted to 5V. It's just enough to suck the hot air out of the case and off of the Accelero. The only sore point is that it's a PITA to take apart and clean every 5-6 months.

Also, yes, all of my fans, including the PSU and CPU fans are permanently hard-wired to specific fixed speeds. This alone is the biggest thing, IMO, as a low constant drone will be blocked out by your mind in a few days. (just like how you don't hear your grandfather clock usually ticking)

lirsch
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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by lirsch » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:14 am

Plekto wrote:IMO the hugest passive cooler can't cool adequately (I mean safely and in every conditions) a 250-300W card (but IME neither a 200W one and I'm playing around a Thermalright Spitfire, right now).

True. You're kind of boned if you are running a heat monster like that. But a lot of cards can be had that are decently fast in the 100-150W range, and that can easily be handled by drawing air over the card. My favorite "trick" is a slot cooler fan placed 1 slot away from the thing (yes, it all occupies 4 slots in the case) under-volted to 5V. It's just enough to suck the hot air out of the case and off of the Accelero. The only sore point is that it's a PITA to take apart and clean every 5-6 months.

Also, yes, all of my fans, including the PSU and CPU fans are permanently hard-wired to specific fixed speeds. This alone is the biggest thing, IMO, as a low constant drone will be blocked out by your mind in a few days. (just like how you don't hear your grandfather clock usually ticking)
Wow, sound like a real cool trick ... can you please add a link of this kind of a card slot cooler? what is its height?

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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Plekto » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:33 pm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... an&x=0&y=0

Most are really loud, so you want a high efficiency one that you then under-volt it to 5V or 7V. Ads you can see, you have to take the case apart to get at the fan as dust gets in it and you have to actually use a q-tip to get the dust off of it.

Put this about an inch away from the radiator type cooler. This will drop the passive cooler down by 10-15C, believe it or not. Instead of moving hot air around in the case, it simply takes about half of it right out the back.

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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:44 pm

And all this unpractical and somehow illogical mess-up (IMO) should be noticeably quieter than something like a stock MSI R6870 Twin Frozr II?
Personally I don't think so, I think it would be likely pointless to do such a work for any rational system with a 100-150W video card.

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Re: Last few components for HTPC/Mid-level gaming system

Post by Plekto » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:05 pm

You're of course free to feel that way. But a slot fan with no major back-pressure due to about an inch of free air space between it and the cooler is going to have a more pleasant overall tone and volume to it. That's the thing that they forget - that these 3D video cards get going and after a few months, when a little dust gets into the system, they vastly increase in noise. Those little spaces between the fins are not quiet.

I have an Accelero S1 on my video card and it's awesome. Worth every penny. It *could* do it passively, but I opted for an optional fan to keep the rest of the case cool. For $40 or so, including the extra fan, I think it was a good upgrade.

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