Case Transplant or Tweak Existing HAF 932

[terminaldawn]

Hello! New here and first post! I have been reading through the forums and was hoping that I could get some advice for my specific situation.

I recently built an unRAID server using a Cooler Master 690 II Advanced case. Not a SILENT case but pretty quite. Now my gaming rig using a Cooler Master HAF 932 case is sticking out because its much louder than the 690 case. HAF 932 makes like a low whoosh noise not a high and whiny noise. I think its because of the HUGE fans and open design of the case. Specs are below as well as the specs for the stock fans I am using.

I would like to make my current gaming rig SILENT / QUIET (it doesn't have to be perfect). I would hate to swap all the fans to find out there is no helping my PC due to the case.

Is it worth trying to make modifications with swapping out fans and other parts or would I be better off with a case transplant?


If a new case any recommendations? If new fans recommendations?


...---~~~===   Case Fan Specs   ===~~~---...

Front: 230 x 30 mm red LED fan x 1, 700 RPM, 110 CFM, 19 dBA

Side: 230 x 30 mm standard fan x 1, 700 RPM, 110 CFM, 19 dBA (support 120 x 25 fan x 4)

Top: 230 x 30 mm standard fan x 1, 700 RPM, 110 CFM, 19 dBA (support 120 mm fan x 3 or 120 mm x 1 + 230 x 30 mm x 1)

Rear: 140 x 25 mm standard fan x 1, 1200 RPM, 60 CFM, 17 dBA (support 120 mm fan x 1), 35,000 hours life expectancy



...---~~~===   Gaming Rig SPECS   ===~~~---...
 
CASE: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
MB: MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
CPU: Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601920
RAM: OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK 
GPU: XFX GX275XAHFF GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply compatible with core i7
SSD: Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
CDROM: LG Black Blu-ray Disc Combo SATA Model UH10LS20 LightScribe Support
INPUT: RAZER DeathAdder / RAZER Lycosa
MONITOR: ASUS VE276Q Black 27" Full HD HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor w/Display Port & Speakers

[Fire-Flare]

Have you tried using a fan controller to slow them down? If they push sufficient air at quiet speeds, kudos. Otherwise I reccomend Scythe's Slip Stream lineup. They become audible to me at 675 RPM, but most people I know say I have sensitive ears.

[terminaldawn]

I have not tried a fan controller. I dont own one at this time.

I guess my question is, is it worth my time and money to buy all new fans or do I start from scratch and get a new case?

Would I need a fan controller anyways?

[tim851]

1 - examine which part of your rig produces what noise
2 - eliminate all sources of noise that are not necessary or can be remedied.
3 - perfect necessary noise sources.

1)
Stop all case fans and unplug the hard disk. Turn on your system. All you should hear now are the CPU cooler, the graphics card and the PSU.
A GeForce GTX 275 shouldn't be the quietest card, seeing as it has a comparatively high idle wattage of 35w. Modern cards shave 20w off that. If you use the Intel boxed cooler, it's not gonna be whisper quiet either. The PSU should be good.
Plug in the HDD. It should produce a noticeable whoosh and looking at the mounting mechanism of the HAF 932, also quite a bit of vibration hum.

2)
The rear 140mm fan should provide all the exhaust airflow you'd need, but it should be slowed down to under 800 rpm. You'll want one front intake fan to provide cooling for the HDD. The 230mm fan is absolute overkill. A quite 120mm fan at under 800 rpm (Scythe Slip Stream or the like) should do the job.
I don't think you really need more case airflow than that. The top and side 230mm are absolute overkill. As open as your case is, leave them off.

3)
If you use the Intel boxed cooler, consider replacing it with something better. Scythe Mugen 2, Prolimatech Mehahalems, etc.
Depending on how loud your graphics card actually is, consider replacing it. It's your gaming rig, maybe you want to look into a GTX 560. Once you sell the 275, the difference shouldn't be much more than a new case.

[fumino]

everything tim just said while i was typing except upgrading the gfx card.

i would say get rid of the large fans, and upgrade your cooling if you're on stock. you might even be able to get away without the rear 140mm fan if you set your cpu coooler to exhaust up(providing you have a good cooling solution for your chip).

a top end cpu cooler and a top end vga cooler might come out to around the price of a new case if you go premium(depending on the case price of course), but consider that you'll be able to keep that hardware through more builds, along with your case. when you feel like upgrading, you'll already have a nice case, and good cooling for whatever hardware you want to get.

my 2 cents for vga coolers: Thermalright Shaman or Arctic Cooling Accelero XTREME GTX Pro. either would be an excellent choice since space is not a concern in that case.

[terminaldawn]

Thanks for your help.

I took Tims advice and turned off the side and top fan. I just have the rear and front fan on now.

I took a good listen and my CPU is definitely making the most noise. Followed by the vid card.

I have a XFX HD 5850 in another box. Do you think that is a more silent GPU than the 275?

My temps jumped up a bit at idle. See below. Do you think this is a concern?


Right now I am thinking I should for sure upgrade my CPU fan. My case fans aren't really that noticeable. At least the two that I have on.

before removing fans



after removing fans

[quest_for_silence]

I took Tims advice and turned off the side and top fan. I just have the rear and front fan on now.

Front fans are usually a noticeably source of noise, due to the more straight path to your ears: you may check if it's worthwhile to stop the front fan instead of the side, or the top one. You may also check what happens to temps if you stop all the case fans but the rear one.

I took a good listen and my CPU is definitely making the most noise. Followed by the vid card.

I have a XFX HD 5850 in another box. Do you think that is a more silent GPU than the 275?

Probably (moreover I think the 5850 should be faster), but I would try first a custom fan curve using something like MSI Afterburner.

My temps jumped up a bit at idle. See below. Do you think this is a concern?

Absolutely no, IME: but you should also check what happens under FurMark or OCCT to be safer.

Right now I am thinking I should for sure upgrade my CPU fan. My case fans aren't really that noticeable. At least the two that I have on.

Apart IMO Intel stock heatsinks simply sucks, from a silence perspective, but as already pointed out by most of people, you need a fan controlling system, software or hardware. No fan is quiet enough at its rated speed (but the very slow one, such as some 500rpm 120mm fans, and the larger is the fan, the slower it has to run).

I always have good results with MSI boards using SpeedFan, but this program isn't a fire and forget one of kind, it deserves to be learnt and tweaked. It might be able also to control your VGA fan (so you might use it instead of Afterburner).
Other good options are some hardware controllers as mCubed T-Balancer or Scythe Kaze Server, IMO/IME.
IME any of these solutions will be far more effective than swapping fans, heatsinks or videocard.

[tim851]

I have a XFX HD 5850 in another box. (...) My temps jumped up a bit at idle. (...) Right now I am thinking I should for sure upgrade my CPU fan.

The 5850 would definitely be a good choice. It should be quieter, though it's really dependent on the model.

Your temps seem okay, except for whatever TEMPIN2 stands for. My guess would be the chipset. The X58 is known to run hot. Since you're already in for a new CPU cooler, I'd recommend the Noctua NH-C14, reviewed here. It's a downdraft type CPU cooler and the first one of those to be really competitive with tower-style heat sinks. It also cools the chipset.

Swapping out graphics card and CPU cooler should be the next things on your list. And then see how you like your system.

[terminaldawn]

The Noctua C14 is almost the most expensive CPU cooler out there right now . Is this really necessary or will one a bit more inexpensive get me close. I am willing to pay for it if it’s worth it. I am a firm believer in “The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.” However, I do believe that if I am getting a very minor improvement over something that is half the price I would rather just go with something half the price. I am a n00b so I don’t know if this is the case. This leads me to my next set of questions


Thanks once again for all the advice. And also a big thanks to the site owner(s) for great information. I really am having a hard time finding information though. I wish the site was a bit better organized…. I guess what I am looking for is a current ranking for which cases and CPU coolers and case fans are best. Is there a current list somewhere that I have missed? I believe I came across a case ranking but can’t find it anymore.


Is this list up to date for CPU Cooler ranking? http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1138-page6.html
edit: I also found this http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html

Is this list up to date for case fans? http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page2.html
edit: I also found this http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1040-page3.html

Is there a ranking for cases? (I have seen it but can’t find it again for the life of me)?


A BIG thanks again to all that have helped!!!!

[Fire-Flare]

I believe a fan controller is the best option for those 230mm fans. Zalman's Fanmate 2s are the most reliable ones I've tried.

As for CPU cooling, you can fit Scythe's Orochi in there if your PSU is at the bottom of the case. (the fin stack measures 200x120x100mm) You can mount one of the 230mm fans on the top of it to cool your motherboard at the same time.

Personally I use Scythe's Mugen 2 in push-pull. At 675RPM it keeps my 6-core AM3 processor at room temperature without being heard.

My AMD 6870 uses Arctic Cooling's Accelero Xtreme. I keep the fans at 30% it idles at 40c.

[tim851]

The Noctua C14 is almost the most expensive CPU cooler out there right now

That is true.

Fire-Flare mentioned the Scythe Mugen 2 (listed as SCMG2 on newegg), which is probably the best bang-for-buck cooler out there. I mentioned the C14, because it will help cool down the hot X58 chipset. However, a lot (probably: most) people with X58-setups use tower heat sinks like the Mugen, so I guess it will be okay.

As to rankings: SPCR always compares a reviewed heat sink to its peers. There is no absolute ranking somewhere here though. Just look at the latest heat sink review and see how it fares against the competition.

Cases can't be ranked, in my opinion. There are just too many factors to be considered. Your case might be a little open (all the vents), which will let the noise of the innards escape. But you have a plethora of fan mounting options in there, so that's a plus.

If you're looking for a case, start your research with SPCR favourites like the Antec Lineup (Solo, P183, P180 Mini, Three Hundred). There is also a thread here where people discuss what they look for in a case. Though a lot of that is subjective.
I've gotten a wide variety of cases inaudible. I believe no setup should need more than four 120mm fans and none of these fans needs to run at more than 800rpm if the system is stressed, no more than 500rpm if the system idles. At this point, the hard disk(s) become the loudest component. Here, it's a matter of proper decoupling and enclosing (still swear by Scythe's Quiet Drive for that). At this stage, you could run the computer naked on your desk and it would be nigh inaudible.
To make a long story short: I believe it's more about cooling a rig efficiently, than about trying to dampen the noise with a special case.

[terminaldawn]

Thanks again!!

I am pretty sure I am going to go with the Scythe "MUGEN-2 Rev.B" 5Heat Pipes CPU Cooler. It seems to do a pretty good job and it gets good reviews. Still going to do more research but that is leading the way right now.

I was also considering Scythe Kama Flow 2 120mm Case Fan's... Any thoughts on these?

If I do get lets say an Antec case is the stock cooling going to be quiet enough or do most people around here still replace the fans with something ultra quiet? Or are there any cases that have stock cooling that is good enough?

[quest_for_silence]

I was also considering Scythe Kama Flow 2 120mm Case Fan's... Any thoughts on these?

Which one? To do what? Generally speaking they are good fans, however.

If I do get lets say an Antec case is the stock cooling going to be quiet enough or do most people around here still replace the fans with something ultra quiet?

Antec TriCools simply sucks, from a silence perspective: I don't know whether or not the new TwoCools may be decent as for sound.

AFAIK lots of silencers (including me) swap them right when assembling the system, as they are loud and not automatically controllable.

Or are there any cases that have stock cooling that is good enough?

IMO/IME most newer Silverstone or Fractal Design enclosures have very good stock fans WHEN properly controlled/dialed down.

[terminaldawn]

I was also considering Scythe Kama Flow 2 120mm Case Fan's... Any thoughts on these?

Which one? To do what? Generally speaking they are good fans, however.

Well I was thinking just two of the kama flow fans. On in the front for intake then one at the back for out.

AFAIK lots of silencers (including me) swap them right when assembling the system, as they are loud and not automatically controllable.

I am taking it would be wise to invest in a fan controller no matter what. Even though my MB has two fan ports on the board??

[Fire-Flare]

I was also considering Scythe Kama Flow 2 120mm Case Fan's... Any thoughts on these?

Which one? To do what? Generally speaking they are good fans, however.

Well I was thinking just two of the kama flow fans. On in the front for intake then one at the back for out.

AFAIK lots of silencers (including me) swap them right when assembling the system, as they are loud and not automatically controllable.

I am taking it would be wise to invest in a fan controller no matter what. Even though my MB has two fan ports on the board??

The Mugen 2's stock fan is the PWM version of their Slip Stream lineup. (They also sell it as a case fan) At 675RPM they're silent even up close.

If you truly don't want to hear the 120mms EVER, get the standard model designed for 800RPM and dial 'em down to about 80%

Scythe also makes 140mm fans that fit 120mm mounting holes, I haven't tried them but they'll probably push more air with the same sound levels as their 120mm cousins.

[quest_for_silence]

I was also considering Scythe Kama Flow 2 120mm Case Fan's... Any thoughts on these?

Which one? To do what? Generally speaking they are good fans, however.

Well I was thinking just two of the kama flow fans. On in the front for intake then one at the back for out.

I was referring to the facts that currently Scythe sells three different Kama Flow 2 flavours, from 800 to 1900rpm.
Moreover, the FD bearing of the Kama is useful particularly if you have to mount it horizontally, while for vertical operation the Scythe Slipstream series is more than adequate and it should be cheaper also.
About fan placement, usually a front intake, providing that CPU and GPU are properly cooled, is the less effective and the most harmful for a silencer rig. As you have just one disk drive, at first I think it could be actually pointless.

As I've already told you, usually MSI boards are compatible with SpeedFan: so, before thinking to any new fan, I would try to control a couple of your existing ones just through SpeedFan and your motherboard's fan headers.

I am taking it would be wise to invest in a fan controller no matter what. Even though my MB has two fan ports on the board??

You might use them if they are software controllable, and they should be more than enough if you might run your system with just one rear exhaust fan. While a SpeedFan solution is to me preferable with Windows for its greater flexibility, an external hardware controller has its strength being OS independent and as it's usually able to run more fans than a motherboard. As I've already told you, if you should go for an external rheobus, I would advice in favor of a mCubed T-Balancer, or the Scythe Kaze Server.

[terminaldawn]

If the front fan isn't a good idea, and it was mentioned before that the side fan isn't a good idea. Do I just run a single rear fan as exhaust and that is all?


If I do go with the Kama 2 fans, should I get the lowest RPMs? (I will be picking some up at the very least for my 690 II Advanced case.

[Fire-Flare]

I am taking it would be wise to invest in a fan controller no matter what. Even though my MB has two fan ports on the board??

You can connect the fans you want to be software controlled to the motherboard. (I suggest CPU and the rear case fan)

The rest can be manually adjusted to your preference using the controller.

[Fire-Flare]

If the front fan isn't a good idea, and it was mentioned before that the side fan isn't a good idea. Do I just run a single rear fan as exhaust and that is all?


If I do go with the Kama 2 fans, should I get the lowest RPMs? (I will be picking some up at the very least for my 690 II Advanced case.

I just looked at Scythe's site and the Slip Streams push more air per rotation than the Kamas. Probably because the Kamas have larger center hubs so their blades are shorter.

And as I said before, my Slip Streams become audible up close near 675 RPM. The 800 RPM one should be best for silence to whisper levels.

[terminaldawn]

Just purchased a couple of Mugen 2's. I got them for a really good price online. Ordered one for my server and one for my gaming rig.

I am going to wait to buy anything else until after I install this to see what I really need.

I am still confused about the fan orientation I should use in my case


Thanks for everyones help!!!

[Fire-Flare]

Just purchased a couple of Mugen 2's. I am still confused about the fan orientation I should use in my case

The spacing between your first PCIe x16 slot and CPU socket is the same as mine. You'll be lucky to squeeze a fan between your video card and Mugen, let alone get any airflow through it.

However, I believe your case allows for a unique airflow situation: If you were to get Scythe's Kama Bay Plus and mount it at the back of some 5.25 bays, you could use its fan and the rear case fan create a horizontal stream of air through the Mugen, while the CPU fan either contributes to this path or blows warm air from the mugen upward to the fans on top.

I'm assuming you have an aftermarket cooler on your video card, and they typically blow warm air into the case. The side panel fan(s) will provide your video card with cool air, but the warm air that comes out of it will want to rise. Rather than let it mix with the air for the CPU, the front intake fan could be turned around and made into an exhaust, effectively making two separate air streams moving in opposite directions.

[terminaldawn]

xbit recently did a round up on fans and the Kama 2 were near the top that is why I was asking about those. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... -2_15.html

The kama 2s dont appear to be PWM however the slipstreams do appear to be PWM. Please excuse my n00b-ness but is it usually better to go with a PWM fan if possible?

I have heard the term undervolting thrown around here, but I am not sure what this is. Is this just a BIOS setting that needs to be changed or a physicall do-it-yourself hack?

Thanks

[MikeC]

Please excuse my n00b-ness but is it usually better to go with a PWM fan if possible?

I have heard the term undervolting thrown around here, but I am not sure what this is. Is this just a BIOS setting that needs to be changed or a physical do-it-yourself hack?

pwm - yes, if the fan is quiet & smooth. Main reason is that some mobo cpu fan headers only support pwm fans. 3-pin fans don't get speed controlled on those headers.

undervolting just means applying a lower than standard voltage (12V) to the fan. There are many ways to do this -- addon voltage controller (like zalman fanmate), resistors, zener diodes, rheostats, etc. Sometimes it is referred to any method of slowing the fan -- including software control of pwm (ie, speedfan on cpu 4-pin header)

[Fire-Flare]

Please excuse my n00b-ness but is it usually better to go with a PWM fan if possible?

I have heard the term undervolting thrown around here, but I am not sure what this is. Is this just a BIOS setting that needs to be changed or a physical do-it-yourself hack?

pwm - yes, if the fan is quiet & smooth. Main reason is that some mobo cpu fan headers only support pwm fans. 3-pin fans don't get speed controlled on those headers.

undervolting just means applying a lower than standard voltage (12V) to the fan. There are many ways to do this -- addon voltage controller (like zalman fanmate), resistors, zener diodes, rheostats, etc. Sometimes it is referred to any method of slowing the fan -- including software control of pwm (ie, speedfan on cpu 4-pin header)

PWM and voltage control both have drawbacks though. PWM fans can make ticking or buzzing noises at low speeds and most voltage controllers convert the unused power into heat.

[MikeC]

PWM and voltage control both have drawbacks though. PWM fans can make ticking or buzzing noises at low speeds and most voltage controllers convert the unused power into heat.

For sure... and we always provide details on the fan's characteristics over a wide range of speed in our heatsink reviews. As for the voltage controller's conversion to heat, it is never any more than what the fan draws at 12V, and most fans we are interested in rarely draw more than ~3W. This is trivial in the context of most systems, even for silent cooling.

[terminaldawn]

I just installed the mugen 2 cooler. I was hoping this would reduce the noise from my PC however I would say that the noise level is about the same. Really most the the noise is coming from the CPU cooler. I am probably doing something wrong but not sure what exactly.

I have only the CPU and two other fans hooked up, all three to the MB. The case fans really arent making that much noise (both 230MM), its mainly the CPU cooler I hear. I installed speed fan and tried setting all my fans to 0%, while quieter I still have an audible PC.


One thing I notice is that my fans seem to be always running at 100% and not scaling automatically. I noticed my MB has Fan settings but I can only set it to a temperature there really isn't an AUTO setting. Should I be setting a temperature option on my MB?


Anything else I should try before getting a new case?


THANKS!!!

[Fire-Flare]

Have you set the PWM mode to Software Controlled in Speedfan?

[terminaldawn]

The "Automatic Fan Speed" setting? If so then yes, it doesnt seem to do anything. However I can adjust the speed of the fans manually. I can hear the difference when I turn them down. Right now I have them all set at 50%. This is much better than when they are set at 100% but I am still not 100% happy with the results.

Any suggestions appreciated !!!


PS - I am very impressed and happy with all the help I have been provided here!!!! .

[Fire-Flare]

The "Automatic Fan Speed" setting? If so then yes, it doesnt seem to do anything. However I can adjust the speed of the fans manually. I can hear the difference when I turn them down. Right now I have them all set at 50%.

In the Configure window under Speeds there's another checkbox at the bottom for each fan when it's selected, if those are checked too then go into Advanced, select your northbridge chip and set the PWM modes to 'Software Controlled'.

Also, in Speedfan's program folder there's a 'Help and How-To' file that has instructions for everything.

[terminaldawn]

i am not sure I am comfortable with speedfan regulating my fans.


I wonder if I should just get a fan controller or a new case?