Which Sandy Bridge motherboard and CPU?

[pinkfloydhomer]

I am upgrading from an old Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon HD 4300 system (about time!)

I want better performance, much lower power consumption (especially while idling), less noise, SSD, SATA 3.0/600/6Gbps or whatever it's called, USB 3.0. I specifically do not need powerful graphics, I am not a gamer. I just want my everyday experience coding and browsing etc. to be snappier, more silent and less power consuming.

Also, I am a value-for-money kinda guy. Diminishing returns and all that. Meaning that I will pay a little more if I get a lot more, but not the opposite. I know that this means different things to different people, but I hope you get the idea. I never buy the latest and fastest and most expensive. Instead I go for what I consider the best value that fits my requirements.

I am undecided on several points:

1) Which chipset to go for? I am really in doubt about H61, H67, P67 and whatever else they are called. It is my understanding that I can either (H67:) choose to utilize the built-in graphics (HD 2000/3000) and not have ability to overclock much, and not run the RAM at more than 1333 MHz OR (P67:) have the ability to overclock to my hearts content (5 GHz on air they say) and not be able to use the built-in graphics, Quick Sync etc. Is this true?
I guess it would make more sense for a guy like me to go for the built-in graphics and not being able to overclock. On the other hand, if I didn't have to choose, doing 5 GHz on air would always be a nice thing to be able to do, to postpone future updates and just for the heck of it. I may not be a gamer but I do like to fiddle. I guess it would also be an option to go with the P67 and then just use my old Radeon HD 4300?
Can you help me decide? Also, you're more than welcome to recommend a specific brand and/or model of motherboard.

2) Which CPU do I go for? i3, i5 or i7? 2500? 2600? K or non-K? I can see that idle watts are nearly the same for all these CPUs, so I guess it is a matter of cost and number of cores, hyperthreading, performance of built-in graphics etc. Can you help me decide?

3) My current case is Antec SX1040B II with some Antec 430W PSU. Will I be able to use this case and PSU with the new system? I am leaning towards buying a new case and PSU, preferably a not too expensive and maybe smaller case, but still of some quality. And a more effecient PSU, 80 Plus and what not. As I understand, PSUs are much more effective when you're not only drawing 80% of their capacity than if you're drawing 25%. So why are everybody buying 400W PSUs? A full Core i5 2500K system seems to be using about 80 watts at full load, so I actually need a small PSU to be effecient?

4) Which SSD to buy? I currently use about 30-40GB on my OS + apps drive, so 80-120GB will be enough. Other files will go on one of my hard drives and on a NAS.

[djkest]

This is a simple thing.

If you are not a gamer, do an i3-2100. It's plenty fast and it uses ridiculously low amounts of power. If you feel like you need quad core, get an i5-2400. Both are extremely powerful.
If you don't plan on overclocking, the K series is a waste of money. So are the P67 motherboards.

I've seen some benchmarks where even the i5-2400 stomps the i7-9xx CPUs in real performance for much less cost, heat, (and noise).

I just got an H67 based motherboard. Not super fancy but more than enough features. Specifically, I got an MSI mATX board. Just find a simple one that has the features you need from a good company. I like Gigabyte, Asus, and MSI myself. P67 motherboards are going to be mainly for overclocking, and since you won't be doing that, there is no need to go there.

Sandy bridge CPUs are amazing. My idle power consumption is down to 57W with a powerful ATI Radeon HD6850 graphics card. Compared to what you have now, they are light years ahead.

[ces]

If you are not a gamer, do an i3-2100. It's plenty fast and it uses ridiculously low amounts of power. If you feel like you need quad core, get an i5-2400. Both are extremely powerful.

The 4 core SB idles at 4 watts. Even if the 2 core one idles at 3 watts... its not that much difference. The 2400 retails at Microcenter for, I think about $150. Now that is a lot for a little. And the 2500K isn't that much more.

There is a new chip set in the pipeline called (i think) the Z68. It gives you the option of using the integrated graphics and overclocking should you choose. It also is supposed to have some sort of super SSD caching capability. If you have the time to wait, you might want to wait for this one (getting a lot for a little more).

I don't think it is that many months away. Do a search and see what people are saying about its expected availability.

[quest_for_silence]

I am a value-for-money kinda guy.

Intel Core i3 2100
ASUS P8H61-M PRO
Cooler Master Sileo RC500
Enermax ECO 80 II 400W EES400-AWT-II-01
Crucial C300 64GB CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus

[djkest]

If you can get an i5-2400 for a good price (Microcenter) it would offer the most value. The i3-2100 is still cheaper and just as fast for most things that don't take full advantage of quad core. I could have gone with the i5-2500k, but it was 20% more for ~6% faster

I still think H67 is the way to go- good value. I got my H67 board for around $100 with lots of new features. P67 motherboards are designed for the overclocking functions.

DDR3 is cheap but you really don't need more than 4GB worth for most normal computing tasks.

[ame]

I am a value-for-money kinda guy.

Intel Core i3 2100
ASUS P8H61-M PRO
Cooler Master Sileo RC500
Enermax ECO 80 II 400W EES400-AWT-II-01
Crucial C300 64GB CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus

Mostly spot on

I'll do some tweaks
i5 2400 - a lot more gain for a little extra $
Antec Solo - better than Sileo on just about everything

[pinkfloydhomer]

I am a value-for-money kinda guy.

Intel Core i3 2100
ASUS P8H61-M PRO
Cooler Master Sileo RC500
Enermax ECO 80 II 400W EES400-AWT-II-01
Crucial C300 64GB CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus

Mostly spot on

I'll do some tweaks
i5 2400 - a lot more gain for a little extra $
Antec Solo - better than Sileo on just about everything

P8H61 doesn't seem to have SATA 3. I think I'll go for P8H67. But which P8H61... M? M-PRO? LE? EVO? Why so many different boards? What is the difference between these?

Also, why a 400W PSU in a system that never uses more than 100W?

I will go for some sort of Core i5, I think.

Can you guys recommend an SSD? I am considering the C300 64GB. I am also considering the Intel 510 120GB. I don't need 120GB. A smaller, cheaper drive is preferable, but I will pay extra if the performance is worth it. Is Intel 510 better performing than C300? Are there other drives I should consider?

[quest_for_silence]

P8H61 doesn't seem to have SATA 3. I think I'll go for P8H67. But which P8H61... M? M-PRO? LE? EVO? Why so many different boards? What is the difference between these?

Also, why a 400W PSU in a system that never uses more than 100W?

I will go for some sort of Core i5, I think.

Can you guys recommend an SSD? I am considering the C300 64GB. I am also considering the Intel 510 120GB. I don't need 120GB. A smaller, cheaper drive is preferable, but I will pay extra if the performance is worth it. Is Intel 510 better performing than C300? Are there other drives I should consider?

OMG... No comment...

[quest_for_silence]

i5 2400 - a lot more gain for a little extra $

Apart the 50% extra in cost, but I think it wouldn't be a well balanced combo: a value-for-money perspective is not a continuum, therefore IMO money shouldn't be stretched so much, otherwise we'll end up in a different value class (both those CPUs are leaders in their own relevant class).

Antec Solo - better than Sileo on just about everything

But about price (twice).

[pinkfloydhomer]

P8H61 doesn't seem to have SATA 3. I think I'll go for P8H67. But which P8H61... M? M-PRO? LE? EVO? Why so many different boards? What is the difference between these?

Also, why a 400W PSU in a system that never uses more than 100W?

I will go for some sort of Core i5, I think.

Can you guys recommend an SSD? I am considering the C300 64GB. I am also considering the Intel 510 120GB. I don't need 120GB. A smaller, cheaper drive is preferable, but I will pay extra if the performance is worth it. Is Intel 510 better performing than C300? Are there other drives I should consider?

OMG... No comment...

Meaning?

[ces]

Antec Solo - better than Sileo on just about everything

But about price (twice).

Someone posted a coupon for the Solo on sales at newegg

[ces]

i5 2400 - a lot more gain for a little extra $

Apart the 50% extra in cost, but I think it wouldn't be a well balanced combo: a value-for-money perspective is not a continuum, therefore IMO money shouldn't be stretched so much, otherwise we'll end up in a different value class (both those CPUs are leaders in their own relevant class). (twice).

Yeah.... sort of. But its the cost of the entire package that counts. And it is a fair jump up for not all that much more (delta of the entire package cost).

[ame]

i5 2400 - a lot more gain for a little extra $

Apart the 50% extra in cost, but I think it wouldn't be a well balanced combo: a value-for-money perspective is not a continuum, therefore IMO money shouldn't be stretched so much, otherwise we'll end up in a different value class (both those CPUs are leaders in their own relevant class). (twice).

Yeah.... sort of. But its the cost of the entire package that counts. And it is a fair jump up for not all that much more (delta of the entire package cost).

Exactly

If your gonna spend eg: $600 and there is an option to go up to $650 and get a quad core it's not 50%. also when I suggested the Solo I was thinking of how a case stays with you for about 10 years or more. Sometimes the extra $ is just worth it regardless. I consider this to be true Value for your hard earned money.

As for the board - re reading the thread and your needs I personally like the Asus H67 M pro as it has the best features, even if it isn't the cheapest option.

Why 400? This is a Silent PC forum. Yes efficiency counts. Most PSU when using only 20-25% will run their fan at minimum speed. You could go with lower W but some PSUs might ramp their fan when loaded. It's hard to find a decent+quiet 300w that won't do that. At 400 range there are a lot of options that are both efficient and quiet at 25% - Enermax, Antec, Seasonic - you name it.

[pinkfloydhomer]

Why 400? This is a Silent PC forum. Yes efficiency counts. Most PSU when using only 20-25% will run their fan at minimum speed. You could go with lower W but some PSUs might ramp their fan when loaded. It's hard to find a decent+quiet 300w that won't do that. At 400 range there are a lot of options that are both efficient and quiet at 25% - Enermax, Antec, Seasonic - you name it.

Good point. I want low power but I also want quietish, so going with an effecient 400W PSU, especially one that is effecient at 25% load, might be a idea. I wonder how effecient my existing Antec 430W PSU is. Maybe I can re-use it. Heck, maybe I can re-use the entire case. But I want new stuff!

Anyone has any idea about the "OMG, no comment" in the post above? Did I write something insane?

[Mats]

I could have gone with the i5-2500k, but it was 20% more for ~6% faster

The obvious reason to buy the 2500K is overclocking, something you can't do with a non -K CPU.
It's quite easy to get 4.5 GHz, that's 45 % faster than the 2400.
Yes, I'm comparing stock vs overclocked, something that wasn't right to do earlier when all CPU's could be overclocked.
Not that everyone needs it, but it's possible.
From another forum:

It appears that this thread is pointless as every single 2500k/2600k can do 4.8g stable with good air cooling.

Anyone has any idea about the "OMG, no comment" in the post above? Did I write something insane?

The Intel 510 isn't very popular, it's pretty fast in some benchmarks, but notoriously slow in others. I think it's also a bit overpriced.
Most people wouldn't notice the difference, or even have a real world chance of comparing since you buy one and probably never get to see what the alternative would have given you.
C300 is a solid performer AFAIK. Vertex 3 is even faster, but it's not available.

Another review.

We could keep on guessing until he decides to answer..

[ces]

The obvious reason to buy the 2500K is overclocking, something you can't do with a non -K CPU.

The integrated video is also 2x as powerful and that of the non-k chips.

[ces]

Good point. I want low power but I also want quietish, so going with an effecient 400W PSU, especially one that is effecient at 25% load, might be a idea. I wonder how effecient my existing Antec 430W PSU is. Maybe I can re-use it. Heck, maybe I can re-use the entire case. But I want new stuff!

Everyone likes that fanless Seasonic 400 watt
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151097

I don't get that. For about the same price you can get the SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151088

It is basically the same power supply except it has a fan that kicks in at about 200 watts. So it is fanless below 200 watts... which for most people is all the time. If things get stressed you have the backup protection of that fan.

[Mats]

I don't get that.

I can think of two reasons.

1 - Most people here at SPCR knows how much power their computer will use. <50 W, >90 % of the time, for <80 % of the people who are considering this PSU.
These people won't start looking for higher power models after they find the 400.

2 - A lower maximum output combined with 80Plus certification means that the 400 W model could be more efficient at lower loads.
(For the same reason, some people here want a 200 W 80Plus Gold PSU.)
It seems to be true according to the tests. However, the difference in real world is really small. I'd rather have the one with a fan.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1062-page5.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article986-page4.html

Even better, get the 560 W and save $19!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151098

[andymcca]

Even better, get the 560 W and save $19! :wink

I don't trust numbers divisible by 28.... It took me months to work through my processor being e8400.

[ame]

I just want to point out that the OP was looking for value/money. The Seasonic X are great PSUs but they are defiantly enthusiast grade, often x2 the price of a similar non gold PSU.
There are benefits, but also an issue of diminishing returns.

[andymcca]

Mr pink:

Are you in the USA?
There is pretty quiet Rosewill (Newegg-only brand) 430W PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817182202
Currently $47 shipped

I have it in my budget HTPC, and I found it to be a great deal and very quiet. I've definitely turned the machine off by accident in a quiet room. But I can definitely hear the fan if I sit right next to it and listen.

[djkest]

I went with an i5-2400 and h67 motherboard because 1) the CPU is cheaper 2) the motherboard is cheaper and I really don't plan on overclocking right now (I guess I really can't). While 4.5 GHz is great, I don't really do anything where that would have much of an impact, and at what voltage/power usage? The games I play don't manage to peg all 4 cores as it is.

To each his own I guess. I'm kind of cheap so I'm always aiming for the best price/performance ratio: such as the i5-2400, the HD6850, etc...

[djkest]

Heh, see my reply below.

And a more effecient PSU, 80 Plus and what not. As I understand, PSUs are much more effective when you're not only drawing 80% of their capacity than if you're drawing 25%. So why are everybody buying 400W PSUs? A full Core i5 2500K system seems to be using about 80 watts at full load, so I actually need a small PSU to be effecient?

Hmm, 80W at full load seems a little low. Perhaps with the onboard graphics and undervolted memory and CPU.
I think something in the 400W range would serve you well. 80PLUS bronze or better.

[ces]

I don't get that.

These people won't start looking for higher power models after they find the 400.

I recollect that SPCR said it was basically the same unit with the fan removed and the stated rating changed. Admittedly I think they implied that there might be some minor component upgrades... but still its the same unit basically.

Even better, get the 560 W and save $19!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151098

How does that one compare to the the x-650 other than power output?

[Mats]

While 4.5 GHz is great, I don't really do anything where that would have much of an impact, and at what voltage/power usage?

When Anandtech overclocked the 2600K from 3.4 GHz to 4.4 GHz, the power consumption raised 25 W.
Given that you overclock with multipliers, the idle power consumption isn't affected.

The games I play don't manage to peg all 4 cores as it is.

The graphics card is probably the biggest limiting factor for you.

[Mats]

How does that one compare to the the x-650 other than power output?

The only thing I know is that models ending with -60 are newer, but the changes are minimal.

Reviews (nothing about acoustics):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4217/seas ... eries-560w
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=202

[quest_for_silence]

We could keep on guessing until he decides to answer..

A momentary lapse of reason, due to a moment of discoraugement: not always I find the fortitude and kindness to answer and help (even if with my own limits)...

...IMO a value PC cannot cope with ambitions: add 50$ here, add further $50 there, and a value PC becomes a midrange or higher unit.
An Antec Solo, an X-400FL, an Intel 510, an i5 2400 are all good or better options, but they aren't value-for-money parts.
The overall combo IMO should be balanced: it doesn't make such a sense mixing different class parts.

I adviced for the i3 2100 as with the light use of a typical not-gaming HD-2000 based workstation a Core i5 is likely to be pointless: last year I swapped a 45W 2.5GHz Athlon X2 4850e with a 45W 2.5GHz Athlon II X4 615e in a somehow similar system, and it ended up with no real-life gain for the user, in spite of the more efficient architecture, the extra cache and the two more cores. Is the i5 a better CPU? For sure, but to what extent?

However, I adviced for the P8H61-M PRO: it does have 6 Gbps SATA ports, and it does have USB 3.0 ports, for about 20% less than a similar ASUS H67. It lacks just some legacy support (PCI, PATA) and 2 DIMM sockets. So which P8H61? I've already adviced for a specific one but I guess you never checked it. At anyway, the ASUS website has a nice comparison tool to play with.

I explicitly adviced for the Crucial C300, but I'm under the impression you've not understood that express advice: it isn't cutting edge but it's a SATA 6Gbps unit and a solid performer, probably only Marvell C400 and Sandforce 2500 currently can clearly defeat it, but it costs a fraction of their prices. Moreover usually it's difficult to find real-life noticeably difference even with reference to somewhat older SSDs (SSDreviews has lots of brief benchmarks about this).

I adviced for the Enermax ECO 80 II 400W: currently there are no quiet unit in the wild under this wattage, and if there is any it won't cost as low as this Enermax (for example the Huntkey Jumper 300). Under 150W it matches the Seasonic X, as it's written in the SPCR relevant test.

I adviced for the CM Sileo, as it offers most of a Solo for the half (usually) of its price, even if obviously it isn't a Solo; on the other hand I just noted that european prices don't reflect USA ones: here the Sileo cost half the Solo, there their prices are much more closer (so it might not worth).

Eventually if you wanna go for a Core i5 2400, maybe the H67 would be a better option, due to its integrated SATA 3 controller and other goodies, and then a Sandforce 2500 (like the Vertex 3) or a Marvell C400 (like the Corsair Performance 3 or the Intel 510) might give some now more noticeable performance boost: then a Seasonic X-400FL (or an X-560/650) may cut a couple of dB more, and so a Solo can do with mechanical hard drives through disk suspension.

But then you'll just have a >850$ peecee, instead of a >500$ one.

Obviously there are (lots of) alternatives to my short list (and more probably that not they are better than the parts I pointed out), but I mean they should be on the same league, otherwise this thread would become easily pointless/fond. IMO.

[ignatz]

Regarding power consumption on Sandy Bridge CPUs:

I am running a non-overclocked i5-2500 with:

1 WD Caviar Black HD
1 WD green HD
1 Samsung DVD burner
4 gb Crucial RAM (2 x 2)
1 Gigabyte H67A-UD3H motherboard
1 4 year old Seasonic SII-330 PSU
1 stock Intel retail heatsink/fan

Integrated graphics, nothing in the PCI slots.

My Killawatt says:

At idle: 72 to 80 watts
At load: 160 watts (Prime 95 on all 4 cores)

I'd probably buy a Seasonic 560 to get modular and gold efficiency, but am waiting for a sale. I'd prefer a new 400 watt very quiet modular gold PSU and might go for the Seasonic X400 fanless on sale as well.

[pinkfloydhomer]

I am considering using my old Antec SX1040BII case with it's Antec SL400P PSU for the H67 motherboard and Core i5-2500K.

But will that even work? Do modern motherboards need some special power connectors like when the P4 connector and the 24-pin power connector was introduced? Or will it work just fine?

[ame]

I am considering using my old Antec SX1040BII case with it's Antec SL400P PSU for the H67 motherboard and Core i5-2500K.

But will that even work? Do modern motherboards need some special power connectors like when the P4 connector and the 24-pin power connector was introduced? Or will it work just fine?

I was having the same problem with a P67 motherboard that has an 8 pin power connector and a 4 pin cable on an Antec PSU.

I ended up using a different PSU but when I later looked at the board's manual it shows an option to use only 4. I'm still not sure it is a valid option.

Has anyone tried it?