silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mini

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sinekoff
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 4:24 am

silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mini

Post by sinekoff » Wed May 11, 2011 4:32 am

Dear all

First thanks to SPCR. This is a GREAT place to learn and share. I would like to ask your all for your opinion on my planned system, plus I also I have some specific questions …

1) Selection of a normal ATX case vs buying a mini ATX case.
- Is there any benefit, for ex. cooling or silencing, when it comes to have more, or less, space in the case (ATX vs mini-ATX case)?
- To buy a Fractal Design Define R3 Vs. Fractal Design Mini
2) Does it make sense to buy a 2,5`` HDD instead of a 3,5``, so that I can mount it suspended in the case (the case being a Design R3/Mini)?
- I have the feeling there is no space for suspending a 3,5`` in the Design R3/Mini case
3) What do you think of my planned system (see below)

System I was planning to buy/build:
Intel i3 2100
Asus P8H67 M Pro (B3)
Artic Cooling Alpine 11 Pro (Rev 2)
2x 4096Mb DDR3 PC1333 G.S. F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL
HDD option 1 => 500GB WD5000BEKT 7.200 16Mb – 2,5`` in suspended mode if HDD bays allows it)
HDD option 2 => 1Tb Samsung HD103SJ 7200 32Mb – 3,5`` in suspended mode if HDD bays allows it)
DVD-rw Sony DRU 24x/24x
Graphic option 1 => Sapphire HD 6850 1Mb
Graphic option 2 => Sapphire HD 6870 1Mb
PSU 550W Be Quiet Straigh Power E8 80plus
Win 7 Ultimate 64bit
Case option 1a => Fractal Design Define R3 – titanium grey (includes 2 stock fan reasonably quiet)
Case option 1b => Fractal Design Define Mini (includes 2 stock fan reasonably quiet)
Case option 2 => NZXT H2

Intended usage of system
- Home office tool (shared with wife) => basic word/excel/PPT/mail
- Internet access / usage
- Basic gaming platform => from time to time / mostly old strategy turn based stuff, even though I may buy Civ-V or Total War which are indeed demanding games. No first time shooters, no car racing, etc. It is unlikely I may buy more than 1 new game every second year.
- No movies/films platform (only occasional you tube videos, etc)
- No over-clocking, nor any cross-fire with graph cards intended.

Important requirements:
- Very quiet
- Reasonably long usage (don’t want to buy for replacements, only one upgrade if needed in 3-4 years or so)
- Return on investment => I don’t want to pay for stuff I will hardly use/benefit from at all, hence the decision not to buy )

Thanks a lot for your feedback in advance & kind rgds
Alejandro

guises
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:48 am

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by guises » Thu May 12, 2011 12:26 am

All other things being equal, a larger case is generally less cramped and allows for better airflow. The Define Mini looks like it won't really be all that small, however, so it may not make much of a difference. The Define Mini also has room for six hard drives, which means there should be plenty of space to suspend a 3.5" drive if you hang it up vertically in the drive cage. I have something like that now in an Antec Sonota using bungee cords.

For the rest of what you're asking, realize that the 6870 is actually slower than the 5870. It'll still be fine, I'm sure, but what I usually do when I'm buying video cards is get a good one for cheap used that's one or two generations old. It's a cost-effective approach, I think. Video cards lose their value quickly.

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by ces » Thu May 12, 2011 12:43 am

sinekoff wrote:Is there any benefit, for ex. cooling or silencing, when it comes to have more, or less, space in the case (ATX vs mini-ATX case)?
1. Cooling is not so much a factor of size as it is how much air you can move in and out of a case in order to carry out the heat you are generating inside the case.

If you aren't generating a lot of heat... it isn't so important. If you are, you need to move more air in and out... otherwise the air must get hotter before it leaves with its load of air... because it is transporting the same amount of heat energy in a smaller volume of air.

Generally, but not always, a larger case will permit you to move a larger volume of air in and out. Of course their are exceptions:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112281

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112299

2. Personally, I don't believe in the concept of quiet cases. I think it is an out of date concept and it artificially limits your selection of cases.

I believe in using quiet components. If you avoid generating the noise in the first place, you don't need to muffle it later. (yes sure this has exceptions, but....)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

sinekoff
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 4:24 am

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by sinekoff » Thu May 12, 2011 4:03 am

guises wrote:All other things being equal, a larger case is generally less cramped and allows for better airflow. The Define Mini looks like it won't really be all that small, however, so it may not make much of a difference. The Define Mini also has room for six hard drives, which means there should be plenty of space to suspend a 3.5" drive if you hang it up vertically in the drive cage. I have something like that now in an Antec Sonota using bungee cords.

For the rest of what you're asking, realize that the 6870 is actually slower than the 5870. It'll still be fine, I'm sure, but what I usually do when I'm buying video cards is get a good one for cheap used that's one or two generations old. It's a cost-effective approach, I think. Video cards lose their value quickly.
Thanks for your feedback.

One question though ... wouldn´t hanging vertically the drive have any consequentce on the HDD? somehow you have the feeling this has been engineered for flat use.

Also is there any benefit on chosing 2,5" vs 3,5"?

thanks & rgds
Alejandro

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by ces » Thu May 12, 2011 4:12 am

sinekoff wrote:One question though ... wouldn´t hanging vertically the drive have any consequentce on the HDD? somehow you have the feeling this has been engineered for flat use.

Also is there any benefit on chosing 2,5" vs 3,5"?
I have often wondered about what position HDs are designed for. I think enough users use them flat and vertical that they must design them for both positions.

2.5 are generally smaller, slower and quieter than 3.5 disks. One major exception are the velociraptors. They are quiet once taken out of their heat sink cradle... but they are about the fastest mechanical hard drives around.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

sinekoff
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 4:24 am

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by sinekoff » Thu May 12, 2011 4:24 am

ces wrote:
sinekoff wrote:Is there any benefit, for ex. cooling or silencing, when it comes to have more, or less, space in the case (ATX vs mini-ATX case)?
1. Cooling is not so much a factor of size as it is how much air you can move in and out of a case in order to carry out the heat you are generating inside the case.

If you aren't generating a lot of heat... it isn't so important. If you are, you need to move more air in and out... otherwise the air must get hotter before it leaves with its load of air... because it is transporting the same amount of heat energy in a smaller volume of air.

Generally, but not always, a larger case will permit you to move a larger volume of air in and out. Of course their are exceptions:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112281

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112299

2. Personally, I don't believe in the concept of quiet cases. I think it is an out of date concept and it artificially limits your selection of cases.

I believe in using quiet components. If you avoid generating the noise in the first place, you don't need to muffle it later. (yes sure this has exceptions, but....)
Dear ces,
Thanks for your imput, also very interesting.

I have the feeling my set-up should not generate too much heat, but then I am not an expert nor I have experience with comparable set-ups. I though after surveying in different forums/reviews that this system with 2 fans would be ok, given that I wouldnt be using it for hard-core playing.

I understand what you mean with quiet components. Somehow I was of the impression that such were the ones I had chosen, but I could be easily wrong;
For example on 6850 (shappire model), I have read that its quieter and cooler than 6870. good enough to keep up for some years and at the same time with an excellent return on investment.
I selected the i3 because it gives me more than enough power for the kind of work use I will have, and is also very low consumption/heat and easy to cool, and the heatsink I have read that is very silent and effective for this chipset.
On the HDD, I dont know if there would be much difference if I choose a 2,5" instead of a 3,5", or if it is a must that i choose one with 5.400U/min.
On the PSU, I have read good things on this Be quiet on the silent part (and unfortunatelly Seasonic is not available by my retailer). Also it is big enough for any future expansion.

What do you think?

kind rgds
Alejandro

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by ces » Thu May 12, 2011 5:20 am

The biggest source of your noise is likely to be your graphics card. If that is an important issue, go with a passive graphics card or two SLI passive graphics cards.

See:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=62073

A good case for passive graphics cards is the Lan-Gear.com Micro-ATX case:
http://www.lan-gear.com
http://www.lan-gear.com/langear-products
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

Abula
Posts: 3591
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Location: Guatemala

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by Abula » Thu May 12, 2011 6:07 am

If you dont have much hdd space requirements, i would suggest to consider Hitachi 5k500B, i own 3 atm (2 on my media streamer one on a laptop) and i cant hear them unless i get extremely close. I would also consider an ssd if you can, like Crucial M4 for OS/Apps. I only use atm 3.5 drives for pure storage on my WHS, but the new WD 2tb are fairly quiet, but not as low as the 2.5 hitachis.
GameMi - Intel i9 9900K + Gigabyte Z390 AM + Asus RTX2080Ti Strix | MiniMi - Intel i7 8700K + ASRock Z370ITX + MSI RTX2080Ti
StreaMi - Intel i9 7940X + AsRock X299 Taichi + Asus GTX1080Ti Strix | WorkMi - AMD 1950X + AsRock X399 Taichi + MSI GTX1080
ServeMi - Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Supermicro X9SCM-F + 144TB | StoreMi - Intel Xeon E3 1240v5 + Supermicro X11SSM-F + 42TB | CamMi - Intel i7 4770K + MSI H81i + Blue Iris

fumino
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:38 pm
Location: ontario

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by fumino » Thu May 12, 2011 1:45 pm

sinekoff wrote:One question though ... wouldn't hanging vertically the drive have any consequence on the HDD? somehow you have the feeling this has been engineered for flat use.

Also is there any benefit on choosing 2,5" vs 3,5"?
1- nope. you can mount them in any orientation you want.

2- they will generally be quieter and produce less vibrations... but you pay a fair bit more for less capacity. if you choose a good, slow spinning 3.5" drive you shouldn't be able to tell the difference.
my foamed mini p180 | corsair cx-400 w/ fan swap | scythe mugen-2 | thermalright hr-05 | unlocked sempron 140 | asrock 880g | 8gb mushkin |vertex 30gb boot | 7TBs storage |

Madmanden
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:19 am
Location: Denmark

Re: silent pc with Define R3 vs silent system with Define Mi

Post by Madmanden » Thu May 19, 2011 10:13 am

I have the Define R3 and even though it's a bit tight, there is enough room to suspend a normal 3,5" harddrive horizontally. :)

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