Fanless i5 mini-itx build

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olssy
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by olssy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:12 am

I'm planning to build a completely fanless PC for my girlfriend and last time I did this it was in an ATX box and I am wondering if anyone has managed to pull off a fanless i5 in a mini-itx format. Here is what I am planning to use for the build:
  • Case: Lian Li PC-Q11B
    Power Supply: Seasonic SS-460FL
    Motherboard: Zotac 467ITX-C-E
    Processor: i5-2500K
    Hard drive: OZC Vertex 2 120GB
    RAM: Corsair Vengeance 8GB(2x4GB) 1.5V
    Video Card: ?
    CPU cooler: ?
For now I'm not even sure if everything will fit well in the case or if there will be sufficient airflow to dissipate the heat and that is one of the reasons I am posting here. Has anyone tried to do a build like this before? I've checked the forums and found similar builds but nothing exactly like what I am planning. The case is the maximum size I can use but am open to anyone with any suggestions for a similar case with better airflow. I am also unsure about the Zoltac motherboard, though the review here is very positive the feedback on newegg is less great, a lot of corrupted BIOS issues. I'm also unsure about what passive CPU heatsink would be adequate or if even going fanless would work, Stealth seems to have pulled it off but I'm guessing they have a very custom solution. Also, if possible, I'ld like to have a decent gaming video card in the box but it isn't a priority for the system.

If anyone has any experience building a fanless mini-itx i5 system please tell me how it went/is going. Or if anyone has any input of components to use it would be a great help. Thanks everyone.
Last edited by olssy on Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Abula
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Location: Guatemala

Re: Fanless 15 mini-itx build

Post by Abula » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:13 pm

I would build on the Q11 with one fan, but fanless with i5 2500k + fanless PSU inside the case and wanting a dedicated GPU i would not build it, i think you can get away with a single 140mm fan that comes with the case, or change it to a Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PK-1 140mm x 25mm Ultra Quiet Fan - 700 RPM - 9 dBA, you could even undervolt it if you still think its loud with a Zalman FAN MATE 2 (the fan can be run at 5volts, probably will dip down around 300rpm, making it inaudible), even you could go the extra mile and grab really huge heatsinks like this build (he was able to fit a special Micro ATX mobo on the Q11), but fanless.... i wouldnt dare with the hardware you are planning. I would also drop the OCZ Vertex2 for Crucial M4 or Samsung 470 SSD or Intel 510/320 series.

olssy
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Fanless 15 mini-itx build

Post by olssy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:42 pm

Great advice, thanks. I guess I'll try with the noiseblocker case fan to start with and see what the temperatures are like, I think I have Zlaman FanMate lying around somewhere. But I'm not sure the massive heatsink in the build you linked to will fit on the motherboard correctly. I'll google around later to see if anyone else has tried, I'm still not convinced the Zoltac motherboard is ideal for me because of the negative reviews...
Any reason you prefer the Samsung and Intel SSD drives to the Vertex 2?

HFat
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Fanless 15 mini-itx build

Post by HFat » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:03 am

That Lian Li case is not well-suited to fanless operation. And the 2500K is overpowered for fanless operation.

If you want to cool a quad-core without a fan, water cooling or underclocking, the only reasonable option I think is to use the whole case as a heatsink with heatpipes (see the recent HDPLEX case review). Even then, the 2500K wouldn't be the most reasonable choice (as opposed to a slightly slower quad which can't be overclocked).
... that or use a couple of fans of course.

But does your girlfriend really need a fast quad-core? Seriously? And a dedicated video card? And 8G of RAM? And a board that's probably focused on features rather than efficiency and reliability?

Abula
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Location: Guatemala

Re: Fanless 15 mini-itx build

Post by Abula » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:04 pm

olssy wrote:Any reason you prefer the Samsung and Intel SSD drives to the Vertex 2?
Intel mostly out of being most reliable SSD back up by a company that been in the market for good amount of time, also their warranty is one of the best atm with 5 years. OCZ to me its dead, specially withe thier shaddy way of hiding they moved the Vertex2 to 25nm without warning new customers. Samsung does all, they do their own nad and controller, the 470 only has one downside, their firmware is destructive, so you have to backup your drive before updating, but performance is really good, specially for small ssd, in the 64gb range that would be my choice, in the 120/8 gb range it opens more into Intel 320/510 and Crucial M4.
olssy wrote:Great advice, thanks. I guess I'll try with the noiseblocker case fan to start with and see what the temperatures are like, I think I have Zlaman FanMate lying around somewhere. But I'm not sure the massive heatsink in the build you linked to will fit on the motherboard correctly. I'll google around later to see if anyone else has tried, I'm still not convinced the Zoltac motherboard is ideal for me because of the negative reviews...
The link that i provided for the build has the exact case you are looking for with micro atx mobo and massive coolers, he went for micro atx to have the cpu cocket a little separated from the PCIe 16x (a mini itx board has it right next to the cpu socket) that kinda allow him to place the Passive HR03 on the GPU and still clear enough to place the HR02 on the CPU, a little complicated but watch the thread you will see in the pictures what i mean.

Personally i favor Asus and MSI for 3rd party mobo manufacturers, but have read good things about ASrock, never personally use them though. The build that posted, is using a picoPSU 160XT if im not mistaken, but his dedicated GPU isnt exaclty top of the line. For good GPU i would skip the picoPSU, and go into a normal ATX PSU, like you wanted with the X460, but this will limit a lot what heatsinks you can use on the CPU (as the PSU will be on top of it). Here is where the SFF becomes fun =P .

Now i built on a Q08 which is very similar to Q11 (mine is deeper and not as tall but similar...), this is not your case but check the following thread, Mini ITX H67 Silent Gaming System, btw i doubt its silent, but the purpose of directing you there, is he uses a Q08 with Normal ATX PSU with a Thermalright AXP 140, here is where it gets a little complicated, i believe the Q11 is a slightly less wide, so im not sure the AXP140 would fit on Q11 that for you to research, but that probably the best cooler you will be able to get into a Q11 with a normal ATX PSU. I would probably undervolt the stock fan it comes with or replace it with another Noiseblocker. Another reason to see this thread is that the AXP 140 with his Mobo has enough room to not obstruct the PCIe (its close) but as you continue seeing his thread you will see that he manages to install a GPU.

One last thing you should take into account is that Q11 isnt as deep as the Q08, so you probably wont be able to fit big gpus, my guess is GTX460 and below. If you still want to presue a passive cooled gpu, then check PowerColor SCS3 AX6850 Passive

Some other coolers to look for are, Scythe Big SHURIKEN and Scythe Kozuti Low Profile, here crosscheck that will clear the memory and the placement will not obstruct the usage of the PCIe 16x slot, with the specific mobo of your choice.

Now one thing to take into account, is that you are wishing for a small case with with high end components, the inside will get hot, specially on load, so the more heat the more RPMs on the fans you will need to keep it cool, its a challenge, but personally i share HFAT view, first crosscheck what will your GF will use it, and build for that.

olssy
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by olssy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:15 pm

Thanks for your input, its helped me make some changes in what I want to build. I guess fanless really won't be necessary as it seems uncertain for an i5 and not a top priority for my girlfriend. I will be sticking with the i5-2500k as it just seems like the most power for the money right now and even if it does offer more processing power than needed for day to day usage I think it is a safer choice in terms of unknown minimum requirements of software that will be released in the next few years.

You guys have also convinced me to not get the OZC SSD drive so instead I am aiming for the intel 510 series 120GB drive as it seems to be one of the best mid-range drives for the moment.

I'm also dropping the Zoltac motherboard for the ASUS P8H67-I Deluxe REV3.0 mainly because I trust/am used to ASUS motherboards.

Also have to change RAM seeing how the ASUS takes so-dimms, I haven't done much research but am planning on purchasing this kit: Corsair CMSO8GX3M2A1333C9 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1333 CL9-9-9-24 204PIN SODIMM Memory Kit

I also checked out a lot of other mini-itx cases and actually quite like the Silverstone Sugo SG06BB-450 but I'm still not sure about the power supply that comes with it even though the manufacturer says it is silent. I've searched around the forums and on google and didn't find anything specific about the noise level it generates except for one negative comment from someone who had the 300watt version...

Also, for now, I think I will skip on the dedicated graphics card unless I can find a decent fanless one for around 100$(very open to suggestions).

There is also the the CPU heatsink that I am unsure of, it seems the pci slot is quite close to the CPU and a large CPU heatsink can block it, the review here said the samuel 17 heatsink shouldn't block it but comparing its size with the Sycthe Shuriken that does block it the Samuel is larger so I'm a bit confused if the Samuel 17 really won't block it. I guess I can use the stock cooler for now.

This setup would have three fans which is a bummer for me as I have dreamed of building a no moving parts high-end PC for years but I guess I'll wait for a future build for that. Any thoughts on what kind of noise level the fans will generate? I'm guessing the CPU fan will be the noisiest. I'm going to be hitting the Buy button tomorrow so if you guys have any more suggestions that would be great.

HFat
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by HFat » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:56 pm

Well, if you want future-proof, the safest thing you can do unless you're a compulsive spender is actually to buy about as low-end as you can get away with and to put the rest of the funds in a bank account.
It also sounds like you should delay your purchase a bit because you haven't researched all this properly.
But if you want to stick with a pointlessly fast CPU, hear me out on the heatsink and the board: you're paying for a CPU that can be overclocked and you're planning to pair it with a board that can't overclock it. I don't know where you got the idea that the 2500K is where it's at when it comes to performance/price but one thing's for sure: that's only if you overclock it! And if you're going to overclock, you could really, really use a better heatsink, especially if you care about noise.

I don't think OCZ drives are so bad. But they had reliability issues in the past. The support is not going to be as bad as with some other brands but they ain't Intel or even Crucial.
The most reliable current-generation drive out there is probably the Intel 320. I don't see the point of the 510... except from a marketing point of view.

If Silverstone are not being honest about their "silent" PSU, there are some affordable PSUs that are going to be silent if you don't draw a lot of power (quad-core, no dedicated graphics card or a fanless one, only one drive: we're not talking about lot of power).
The case will have a big impact on the noise of the system so, unless you know what you're doing or you can afford failure, I think you should stick with something that's tried and true.

sgtpokey
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Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by sgtpokey » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:18 pm

If you really want fanless and are willing to spend money you'd want a purpose-built case, with heatsinks and heatpipes to bleed the heat out of the case. Your choices are:

1) the HFX micro or mini offerings from mcubed (an austrian based company, if you are buying for shipment to the US, the VAT tax will be removed so the final price is less than what you see initially)
http://www.hfx.at/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=97

2) the offerings from hd plex:
http://www.hd-plex.com

there's a third choice, the custom manufacturer atechfabrication.com as well, but, although a great provider, the prices are higher.

I have experience with the HFX Classic, atx case, and have used it for my 24/7 "always on" media server/htpc/game machine since around 2005. The designs work, but you have to be willing to spend the money if it's actually your dream/priority. Sounds like it is not your girlfriend's priority, but you would like to someday...

olssy
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by olssy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:48 pm

Thanks for both your responses.
I should have pointed out earlier that even though it is my girlfriends computer I will have to use it for work occasionally and I'm a software engineer. The extra CPU power will not be wasted on me and from what I can tell the next step up would be an Intel Core i7-2720QM @ 2.20GHz for about 200$ more for almost the same processing power. Multiple cores are also useful for ye girlfriend as she often has to use an OSX VM not to mention I will be using VMs also. The i5-2500k really seems well suited for my needs, I can send you the links to the articles that convinced me, both sites I trust pretty well:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu ... 40+3.30GHz
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the- ... 100-tested
And though I'm not planning on overclocking it, it's a nice option to have if the temperatures are low enough. I'l love to be able to research this a lot more but I have 2 kids a job and my girlfriend, it's a miracle I have time to post here and leverage the knowledge of people who have done research :) I'm going to look in to the Intel 320 drive later tonight but if you hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have.
I'm also going to check out those three sites sgtpokey linked to, I've always dreamed of creating my own case so that third site will be fun to look at. Also, in the end, it may be my girlfriends computer but its a matter of dumb male pride to build her something fun.

HFat
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Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by HFat » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:21 pm

If you don't have time maybe you should buy a fully-built PC or copy someone's build.

The 2500K lacks the second VM extension. It would actually be worse than cheaper models to drive a VM. And you'll lose the overclocking ability by pairing it with the wrong board. Intel makes this stuff hard to understand by selectively crippling most of its products.
If you don't want the 2500K's integrated graphics (which other models have as well), the 2400 is the best value among the SB quads at official prices (and it's got both VM extensions). Not that having four cores is particularly useful to run your VMs (extra RAM is what's needed).

olssy
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by olssy » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:04 am

Thanks again for all your help guys, I ended up buying the following:

Silverstone Sugo SG06BB-450 Black SFF MINI-ITX MINI-DTX Case 1X5.25 Slim 1X2.5IN 1X3.5IN 450W PSU
1 Yes $130.02 $130.02
ASUS P8H67-I Deluxe REV3.0 mITX H67 LGA1155 PCI-E16 802.11N HDMI DVI Sandy Bridge B3 Motherboard
1 Yes $147.40 $147.40
Intel Core i5 2500K Quad Core Unlocked Processor LGA1155 3.3GHZ Sandy Bridge 6MB
1 Yes $214.59 $214.59
Crucial M4 SSD Micron C400 64GB 2.5IN Solid State Disk Flash Drive SATA3 6Gbps
1 Yes $114.92 $114.92
Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green 2TB SATA2 3Gbps 64MB Cache 3.5IN Hard Drive OEM
1 Yes $79.79 $79.79

Although it is far from fanless I am hoping the noise levels will be low and can always buy a better CPU fan and even replace the powersupply for a fanless one if the temperature doesn't get too hot. After reading some more about the new SSD drives I opted for a small C400 just as a boot drive with a caviar green for media storage. I'm not sure this SSD is the best choice but it seems to have good reviews and the price was nice. I also stuck with the i5-2500k as it still seems to best suit my needs, the absence of intel's Trusted Execution Technology on the chip should not affect the performance of my VMs as it is mainly used as a kind of DRM for VM servers. Also the extra cores are useful when using VirtualBox as I can assign how many cores the VM can use, also, and 8GB of RAM will be sufficient for now, I'll upgrade to 16GB when it hits the 70$ mark. Ill post some pics and benchmarks once I build it if it interests anyone.

HFat
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by HFat » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:50 am

That's not a VM extension. Intel's version of the extension I'm talking about is called VT-d.

olssy
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

Re: Fanless i5 mini-itx build

Post by olssy » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:17 am

Oops, didn't understand what you meant by the second VM extension, you got me worried for a second. After a quick google search I found out that the motherboard is unlikely to support VT-d, VirtualBox doesn't support it and also the technology wouldn't be very useful to me as it allows direct access to the PCI bus but my usage of VMs does not tax any resources on the PCI bus. Anyway, thanks again, that could have been a showstopper for the 15-2500k but I'm relieved it isn't. Just got an e-mail that my shipment has shipped :)

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