Please check my new Intel G620t HTPC build before I buy

[evandyk]

After much hemming and hawing about AMD v. Intel, and then G620 v. i3-2100, I've come down on the following.

If I could have your advice as to whether everything will work together, that would be great. Everything is from newegg.ca except for the processor, which they don't have in stock right now, so I will order from ncix.

Antec ISK 300-65 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case

ASUS P8H61-M LX (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel H61 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Intel Pentium Dual Core G620T Low Power Processor LGA1155 2.20GHZ 3MB Cache

G.SKILL NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-4GBNS

Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

SAMSUNG Spinpoint M8 HN-M750MBB 750GB 5400 RPM 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive

SAMSUNG 8X Slim Internal DVD Burner, OEM Package Without Software Black SATA Model SN-208BB - OEM

The total package is about $520 before taxes and shipping.

If I have never built a computer before (although I have on a few occasions installed parts into them) is it crazy to start in this tiny case?

[MikeC]

Assembling a computer today is just a matter of following manuals, using a screwdriver, regardless of size. It`s not rocket science.

But you have a microATX motherboard; it will not fit in a mini-ITX case. Newegg shows 14 mITX boards for 1155 socket.

[HFat]

To answer your question, Mike is of course right about how hard it is to build.
If you've got someone with a clue and a few spare parts you can call for help, you'll be fine. But I wouldn't recommend buliding a single computer on your own for two reasons:
You can damage parts by assembling them carelessly. And you might not notice except that the assembled computer won't work when you try to switch it on.
Most likely there won't be a problem. But how are you going to diagnose it if things don't turn out right? Are you going to call the supplier and complain without knowing if it's your fault? And how are you going to know which part is faulty if you have no spares? In some cases it's easy but if you can't tell, are you going to return everything?


As to the part selection, Mike made the important comment.
But I think the price is a bit high.

Intel Pentium Dual Core G620T Low Power Processor LGA1155 2.20GHZ 3MB Cache

A cheaper CPU would do. New models have been released recently but I don't know for sure if they have limitations as compared to the G620.

G.SKILL NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-4GBNS

You can probably find cheaper RAM. You don't need 4G and in any case I would use a single stick.

Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Definitely unneccessary. This is the part I would want to change most. A cheaper model would work fine.
Maybe you can even boot of a USB Flash drive. If not there are cheap SSDs though a nice SSD like an Intel 310 would of course be better and would still save you a little money.

SAMSUNG Spinpoint M8 HN-M750MBB 750GB 5400 RPM 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive

The 500G model would be preferrable if you don't need more storage. If you need more, consider getting the 1T model (if you need two platters, you might as well use them fully).

[quest_for_silence]

Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Definitely unneccessary. This is the part I would want to change most. A cheaper model would work fine.
Maybe you can even boot of a USB Flash drive. If not there are cheap SSDs though a nice SSD like an Intel 310 would of course be better and would still save you a little money.

IMHO a (more than a bit) questionable suggesting, if I may take the liberty HFat.
First of all, booting from a flashdrive on an USB 2.0 (I assume an H61 mITX) doesn't look very performing, nowadays.
Then, that quoted Crucial m4 is clearly cheaper and performance wise better than the similarly-priced Intel 310 (which is also miniPCIe, not SATA, IIRC).

[HFat]

You may take the liberty to be completely wrong of course.

First of all, booting from a flashdrive on an USB 2.0 (I assume an H61 mITX) doesn't look very performing, nowadays.

I boot form USB 2. Obviously it's not as fast as SATA. But it's fast enough depending on what you're booting. And it's a cheaper. Whether it's appropriate for the OP, I don't know. So I wrote "maybe".

Then, that quoted Crucial m4 is clearly cheaper and performance wise better than the similarly-priced Intel 310 (which is also miniPCIe, not SATA, IIRC).

310 is miniPCIe which is better if your motherboard has the port if you're going to use a small case and a spinning drive on top of the SSD. There's also a SATA model which costs almost the same here (the 320).
The M4 can't be cheaper and similarly-priced so I'm not sure what you're talking about but the cheapest Intels are cheaper than the cheapest M4 here. They're also cheaper to make on account of the lower capacity and their official price is cheaper too so unless there's a sale where you live, you'll save money by going with those Intels which also seem to be more reliable drives.

[quest_for_silence]

The M4 can't be cheaper and similarly-priced

Except that, generally speaking, a certain price may be slightly lower and therefore similar to another slightly higher quote, instead I mean it can be "cheaper and similarly-priced": as a matter of fact both (Intel and Crucial) costs about 99 (so they're similarly priced), but the m4 is 64GB while the 310/320 is 40GB (so the m4 is also cheaper).
I'm referring to newegg quotes, as the OP is referring to them too (just as a side note the 80Gb 320 goes for around 180, the 80Gb 310 goes for about 200, while the 128Gb m4 goes for about 200 too).

About reliability, I can't speak about it with any form of certainty: the only thing I can add is that the previous gen Crucial C300 is (very close) the second best to the Intel G2 with reference to reliability, while currently Intel sells the 510 (same controller of the m4) as being more reliable than their G3 (320) and G2 SSDs. So I think it can't be so bad, that m4 (but YMMV).

[HFat]

but the m4 is 64GB while the 310/320 is 40GB

Both are too big for this application.

currently Intel sells the 510 (same controller of the m4) as being more reliable than their G3 (320) and G2 SSDs.

Really? I suppose it would be a case of marketing nonsense which comes from the price of the models rather than their merit.
From a hardware perspective, the 320 is supposed to be more reliable than the G2. They fixed a flaw in the old design which caused repeatable data loss. No other affordable SSD has similar capacitors as far as I know so I suspect all other affordable high-performance SSDs are at risk.

[evandyk]

Who knew picking an SSD would be so contentious... I wanted the 60GB to store the OS as well as my music, and some stuff I would be currently watching. This one was recommended on Tom's Hardware as good at that price. I see today that newegg has the OCZ Solid 3 60 GB for a bit cheaper. Is that better/worse/no different?

As for the motherboard, I meant to select this one:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6813131727

(same board but m-ITX version).

I think I might buy everything on ncix and get their assembly service for $50.

Oh, and my price calculation was also wrong... the hard drive was in the cart twice, so the total is actually about $450.

[quest_for_silence]

but the m4 is 64GB while the 310/320 is 40GB

Both are too big for this application.

I'm not aware of anything smaller, nowadays.

I suppose it would be a case of marketing nonsense which comes from the price of the models rather than their merit.

I think it's mainly a matter of 34nm NANDs (510) vs 25nm ones (320), so more cycles.

I suspect all other affordable high-performance SSDs are at risk.

Currently I'm aware that some Vertex 3s also offer sort of "super cap" against unexpected power loss, but I don't know about Crucial.

At anyway, generally speaking I'm under the impression you advise for downsizing such a system.
I won't say if you are right - maybe the OP can judge better -, nor if you are completely wrong, as I already have expressed my thought about some facts and quotes: have a nice day.

[quest_for_silence]

Is that better/worse/no different?

AFAIK it shines only with compressible data (the stunning advertised specs are for compressible data), it's firmware-crippled (it might worth to buy the Agility 3), and up to now it should suffer of the so-called "BSOD issue", which affect the current OCZ/SandForce SF-2XXX lineup.

Performance wise I can't say, it's difficult to work out a definitive answer (there are too many benchmarks around, even the so called "real world" ones): if you trust Anandtech, it's noticeably worse than the m4 (but on the contrary, if you look at Storage Reviews, it should be better...). At anyway, more probably that not it should be a "solid" performer (pun intended).

Eventually, I would feel more comfortable with both Intel and Crucial SSD, if you ask my very personal opinion.

so the total is actually about $450.

Last but not least: I think that in your parts list lacks a CPU heatsink (something like the Scythe Kozuti), and maybe a replacement fan for the Tricool (I can't stand Antec fans).

[DMiles]

One omission might be some sort of video output. The G620T is cheaper than the i3-2100T because it doesn't include a GPU, doesn't have hyper-threading and runs at a lower clock rate. The G620T was just the processor for a WHS2011 server I built a few weeks ago since the server runs headless, but for a HTPC you'll need some sort of video interface.

[MikeC]

evandyk --

I see nothing really wrong with any of your choices, now that you've got a mini-itx board.

About the only comment I'd make is that the speed of an SSD is most notable at bootup, starting complex programs, and opening big files... so an SSD might not be as much of an advantage as you might think. With my own HTPC, I never turn it off, so the first advantage is moot, and I rarely do anything more complex than open up a web browser or media player, so the 2nd is also not a big deal. I run a single big drive (2 TB WD Green), with a 100gb partition for the OS, and all the data in the remaining partition. It works perfectly fast enough, imo.

Finally, $50 is cheap for assembly, but it really isn't "hard" do DIY. I second the motion to go with a better fan & CPU cooler. Check our review of that case for some of the choices we made for the test rig.

[evandyk]

I was counting on the SSD more for low heat and noise than fast performance - like you, it would rarely be shut down, and not used for anything other than media playback (and running utorrent). Not worth it? I'm not particularly budget-conscious, but no point in wasting 100 bucks...

I may look into better fans once I hear it in my living room.

[HFat]

SSD are great for random access performance. As Mike says, it's not a big deal for an HTPC.
They're also great if a $15 USB Flash drive wouldn't do for your application (Windows?) and you want to get rid of your hard drive. But you're going to keep a hard drive so that doesn't apply to you either.
There still are some advantages to having a SSD but are you only looking at 100$ models? There are SSDs which cost around $50. They can be big enough for your OS, music and stuff you're currently watching. Even Windows can be stripped down to a reasonable size without too much effort and music can be compressed.

[nutball]

When comparing HDDs with SSDs it's important to remember size. The performance of large-capacity 3.5" 5400rpm drives is decent, the performance of 2.5" 5400rpm drives isn't (in my personal opinion at least).

[quest_for_silence]

When comparing HDDs with SSDs it's important to remember size. The performance of large-capacity 3.5" 5400rpm drives is decent, the performance of 2.5" 5400rpm drives isn't (in my personal opinion at least).

I think, as already pointed out by MikeC/HFat, that requirements/applications matter more, with reference to "performance", than the mere "size".

Just as an example, I swapped a 120Gb 5400rpm 1.8" Toshiba with an Intel X-18M 160Gb SSD: using that system as a commuter office/web station, I didn't perceive any substantial improvement, regardless of what benchmarks say (benchmarking differences are HUGE: and even quietness wise, the swap improvement isn't such a noticeable one).

[HFat]

Just as an example, I swapped a 120Gb 5400rpm 1.8" Toshiba with an Intel X-18M 160Gb SSD: using that system as a commuter office/web station, I didn't perceive any substantial improvement

Subjective is subjective but that's odd. It depends on the software but newish office software tends to cause a substantial I/O load. Were you using special low-requirements software? Or maybe old Microsoft software to save on licensing? That could explain it. Even on an Atom with RAM to spare, an SSD speeds up Firefox (a very sloppy application) noticeably for instance.
You don't want moving parts on the road so it was a good swap anyway.

[kuzzia]

One stick of 4 GB RAM is more preferable than two sticks of 2 GB. When the system needs to be upgraded later on, it is much easier to sell a 4 GB stick than a 2 GB stick. 2 GB sticks might not be enough in the future, just as 512 MB or 1 GB RAM on a single stick once seemed to be adequate. But that's not the case anymore, and the same thing will most likely happen to 2 GB sticks. SO my point is: buy RAM with as much density as possible. dual-channel vs. single-channel performance is not really noticeable for everyday usage anyway, and both options (1x4 GB and 2x2 GB) cost practically the same.

So: it's preferable to but one stick of RAM with 4 GB (1x4 GB) than two sticks of 2 GB RAM (2x2 GB)

[evandyk]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I think I will drop the SSD, switch to one stick of RAM and build it myself. Troubleshooting may be difficult (not much in the way of spare parts), so if it doesn't work when I put it together I will visit a local computer store and pay them to sort it out. Or maybe suck up to the IT people at work

[quest_for_silence]

First of all, sorry for the partial OT.

That could explain it.

I use Libre Office 3.3, configured to pre-load when Win7 boots up: I think it may help.

Even on an Atom with RAM to spare, an SSD speeds up Firefox (a very sloppy application) noticeably for instance.

Even some habits maybe help: I use mostly standby and resume, I reboot or shut down the system maybe every 7-10 days, while such apps like Firefox or Skype are always opened.

You don't want moving parts on the road so it was a good swap anyway.

I mean that having the Intel SSD is a bonus with reference to reliability: or so I hope.

[evandyk]

I had to put my plans on hold, so I just got it up and running this week. I got a 2100T instead, which I know is overkill but couldn't help myself.

Everything is snappy, it boots in seconds and is virtually silent - certainly nothing you could hear from more than about a foot away. Thanks for the help!

[Scrooge]

One omission might be some sort of video output. The G620T is cheaper than the i3-2100T because it doesn't include a GPU, doesn't have hyper-threading and runs at a lower clock rate. The G620T was just the processor for a WHS2011 server I built a few weeks ago since the server runs headless, but for a HTPC you'll need some sort of video interface.

I want to correct this for others, even though the OP already bought (and switched to a 2100T). The G620T does have a GPU in it; what it lacks is certain video encoding/transcoding features. It absolutely can drive a monitor.

[sutton8]

One observation I'll make about the case is be sure you check the dimensions and know what you are getting unlike me. I bought one of these cases recently and was expecting it to be the size of a large external hard drive like my old Shuttle. It is in fact more small briefcase size and not really intended for the desktop.

It is currently sitting in AV rack and is fine there.

[evandyk]

Yeah, you need to use laptop-sized drives and a slim DVD. But it looks great and fits perfectly with other "mini" type components like my receiver.