Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

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ziphnor
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Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:58 pm

UPDATE: Based on the comments, my new plan is the following build:

Case: Silverstone FT05 ( previously: Fractal Design R4 )
Though i have slight preference for the R4 design, i am intrigued by the rotated design of the FT05.

CPU: i7 5820k (unchanged)
Hoping for some decent OC, though without excessive voltage.

CPU Cooler: Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E ( previously: Cryorig R1 Ultimate )
The R1 sounds great, but Cryorig verified that it would block the first PCIe slot on the Asus X99-A, so its a no-go. Also interested in the NH-D15, but the IB-E should be less trouble wrt. to height and GPU clearance.

RAM: 32gb G.Skill Ripjaws4 2666
Planning on removing the heatspreaders on one or more of these if they cause problems with the CPU cooler. I found them at a price almost identical to the 2400 version, and not far from the 2133 ones ( though i do have to wait as they are out of stock). I know 32gb doesnt matter for gaming, but it is useful on a machine also used for development (especially the type i do).

GPU: Asus GTX 980 Strix OC (unchanged, though MSI Gaming 4G is a possible alternative)
Going with this one over a reference card mostly because its supposed to be nice and quiet (and still OCs nicely). I verified on HardForum that the Strix works fine in vertical position.

SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 1tb (previously: Samsung 840 EVO 1Tb)
It looks like the Samsung 850 EVO is just about to launch, and i am not in that big of a hurray, so i will wait.

Motherboard: Asus X99-A
Looks to be pretty much the same as the much more expensive Deluxe, just without all the "bloat". Was also considering the Asrock Extreme4/6, but couldnt see any compelling reason to go for them instead.

PSU: Corsair HX750i (previously: SeaSonic 860 Platinium)
Changed to Corsair because it can run partially silent and has exceptional reviews as well as being somewhat cheaper. Also decreased from 860 to 750 based on the power consumption discussions below.
Last edited by ziphnor on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:53 am

ziphnor wrote:If i got SLI with GTX 980's at some point for example, and am running both them and the CPU OC'ed?

A GTX 980 SLI paired with a 4GHz Haswell-E won't draw more than 430W while gaming.
You might consider some 50-100W more for running non-reference card, but that's all.

Anyway, at that wattage there are quieter options than the Seasonic Platinum (like the Corsair HXi).
Regards,
Luca

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faugusztin
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by faugusztin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:35 am

Why not NH-D15, especially due their exceptionaly good compatibility with tall heatspreaders ?

Take a look at NH-D14 vs NH-D15 on a X99 Deluxe motherboard :
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Motherboar ... Cooler-Fit
http://www.pcper.com/image/view/45505?r ... de%2F61041

Abula
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:23 am

quest_for_silence wrote:Anyway, at that wattage there are quieter options than the Seasonic Platinum (like the Corsair HXi).
The Seasonic SS860XP2 has an avantage of most of the same wattage for the R4 and one of the primary reason i chose it, its 160mm, if the bottom fan placement is planed to be used, its better to get a 160mm PSU, else it will overlap, i believe some 170mm might be fine but will depend on the orientation of the modular cables, HX uses all rows from what i saw, so its not good for the R4 if the bottom fan is going to be used.
Case: Fractal Design R4
I really like the design, and understand that should be able to keep things quiet.
The R4 is a wonderful case, but not sure if its the correct for SLI setup, but not that high end gpu are so efficient it might be.
CPU: i7 5820k
Hoping for some decent OC, though without excessive voltage.
Excelent CPU, i kinda wished i didnt built on my 4790K but i had other things that came out the build so was cheaper not to move platforms, but for sure seems like a great CPU for the money.
CPU Cooler: Cryorig R1 Ultimate
This has been getting really great reviews, and should be fairly quiet.
One of the CPU coolers that intrigues me, seems some benchmarks betting a lot of the twin tower coolers, the only doubt i have is how quiet the fans can be. The Techpowerup review CRYORIG R1 Universal rates it very well, but one of its cons was the PWM range on the fans could be better. With many coolers offering fans that drop down to nearly 300 RPM, the 700 RPM minimum seems a bit high., so its just the fans that kinda have me thinking into how quiet they are or the tonality, without a SPCR review, you going blind into something that can cool well but can be noisy. There might be options though, not many because of its slim fans, but i think the Prolimatech 140 ultra slim can work, but im not sure as i dont own the cooler to say for sure, those drop to 460rpm on idle on fanXpert2.

One important thing you need to check on the Cryo, is its width, in a lot of the twin towers that use 140mm fans overlap the first PCIe slot, in the case of the Z87/97 motherboards dont matter much as most of the time is PCIe 1x, but in the case of most of the X99 is the first PCIe 16x, so here it does matter more. Personally i would recommend the Thermalright SilverArrow IBE as its build asymetrical toward the oposite side of the PCIe, mantaining the max length toward the PCIe that usually is 140mm (spread in half to each side).
RAM: 32gb G.Skill Ripjaws4 2666
Planning on removing the heatspreaders on one or more of these if they cause problems with the CPU cooler. I found them at a price almost identical to the 2400 version, and not far from the 2133 ones ( though i do have to wait as they are out of stock). I know 32gb doesnt matter for gaming, but it is useful on a machine also used for development (especially the type i do).
One option that you should consider if the height inteferes with the cpu fans is changing them, Enzotech Pure Forged Copper Memory Heatspreaders, this were release when ddr2 was on the market, but work fine on ddr3, ddr4 has no memory chips on one side so im not sure if this will cause any problems, i wouldnt think but would be best to check or if any of the specs of the pcb of the memory is different not allowing it to mounted, either way ddr4 is suppose to run cooler, so you might be fine without them, but just in case since you mention you want to overclock.
SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 1Tb
Seems to be the best consumer SSD right now? I dont want any regular disks in my system, i am tired of waiting for them to spin up :) If i need more storage i have a 9TB storage server on gigabit LAN.
I would say the 850Pro should be the best atm, but 840Pro is still one the best.
Motherboard: Asus X99-A
Looks to be pretty much the same as the much more expensive Deluxe, just without all the "bloat". Was also considering the Asrock Extreme4/6, but couldnt see any compelling reason to go for them instead.
Good choice, specially one of the few X99 motherboards that has 2 slots between their 16X PCie express making it ideal for SLI on air.
PSU: SeaSonic 860 Platinium
Platinium because the price difference wasnt very big for some reason. Seasonic because its on the recommended list here at SPCR, and because i have had an older one running for a long while without issue. I am wondering if 860W is enough for future expansions? If i got SLI with GTX 980's at some point for example, and am running both them and the CPU OC'ed?
As long as you dont get one with coil whine, its a very nice PSU, but there are lots of choices out there, but its a nice one for the R4 as i said earlier it allows the use of 140mm on the bottom.
Case: Fractal Design R4
I really like the design, and understand that should be able to keep things quiet.
How many fans are you running and what brand?
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ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:10 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
ziphnor wrote:If i got SLI with GTX 980's at some point for example, and am running both them and the CPU OC'ed?

A GTX 980 SLI paired with a 4GHz Haswell-E won't draw more than 430W while gaming.
You might consider some 50-100W more for running non-reference card, but that's all.
Hmm, i want to make sure i can max both CPU and GPU(s) at the same time (planning some OpenCL fun). I figured about 200W for each GPU (a TDP of 165W which i guess can be exceeded when OC'ing), and the same for the OC'ed CPU. Not seeing a drastic price difference in the 800+ PSU's, i thought i might as well leave a bit of headroom.
Anyway, at that wattage there are quieter options than the Seasonic Platinum (like the Corsair HXi).
Thanks, thats exactly the kind of feedback i am looking for. I can get the Seasonic 860 for 185€ and the Corsair HX850i for €158, so if the Corsair is quieter (while otherwise being of equivalent quality?) i will definitely go for that instead.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:21 am

faugusztin wrote:Why not NH-D15, especially due their exceptionaly good compatibility with tall heatspreaders ?

Take a look at NH-D14 vs NH-D15 on a X99 Deluxe motherboard :
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Motherboar ... Cooler-Fit
http://www.pcper.com/image/view/45505?r ... de%2F61041
Thanks a lot, very useful to see it mounted on an X99 Deluxe as its pretty much identical to the X99-A that i am planning to get.

I have been looking at the NH-D15, but from the reviews i got the impression that the Cryorig R1 Ultimate performed slightly better, but looking again at say http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/coo ... imitstart= it looks like its doing it while also making a bit more noise, even though the reviewer concludes that its very quiet, so possible the NH-D15 would be a better choice.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:47 am

Abula wrote:The Seasonic SS860XP2 has an avantage of most of the same wattage for the R4 and one of the primary reason i chose it, its 160mm, if the bottom fan placement is planed to be used, its better to get a 160mm PSU, else it will overlap, i believe some 170mm might be fine but will depend on the orientation of the modular cables, HX uses all rows from what i saw, so its not good for the R4 if the bottom fan is going to be used.
Thanks for the insight. So the Corsair HX850i itself will physically overlap the bottom fan, or are you "just" saying that its cables will hinder the airflow?
One of the CPU coolers that intrigues me, seems some benchmarks betting a lot of the twin tower coolers, the only doubt i have is how quiet the fans can be. The Techpowerup review CRYORIG R1 Universal rates it very well, but one of its cons was the PWM range on the fans could be better.


Thats very good point. I must admit i figure it would be quiet "enough", but with a GPU that can go completely silent when idle, and possibly the same for the PSU (depending on choice), it might be a good idea to pay more attention here.

One important thing you need to check on the Cryo, is its width, in a lot of the twin towers that use 140mm fans overlap the first PCIe slot, in the case of the Z87/97 motherboards dont matter much as most of the time is PCIe 1x, but in the case of most of the X99 is the first PCIe 16x, so here it does matter more. Personally i would recommend the Thermalright SilverArrow IBE as its build asymetrical toward the oposite side of the PCIe, mantaining the max length toward the PCIe that usually is 140mm (spread in half to each side).


Hmm that is a very good point. It would be problematic to lose the first PCIe x16 slot. According to the Asus X99-A manual, the 4th x16 slot cannot be used along with an M.2. SSD and the 3th slot only supports x8 devices, and the 2nd slot shares bandwidth with some usb connectors and a pci-e x1 slot. The recommended SLI configuration for an 28 lanes CPU is the 1st and 3rd slot (running at x16/x8).

I would say the 850Pro should be the best atm, but 840Pro is still one the best.


Actually hadnt realized that the 850Pro was available in 1tb. However its also crazy expensive in comparison (330€ vs 520€). But perhaps i could make do with a smaller size (say 512GB). I should probably check out the benchmarks in more detail...

PSU: SeaSonic 860 Platinium
As long as you dont get one with coil whine, its a very nice PSU, but there are lots of choices out there, but its a nice one for the R4 as i said earlier it allows the use of 140mm on the bottom.


Is the seasonic's prone to coil whine compared to other brands? Any particular alternatives i should be looking at?

How many fans are you running and what brand?


I hadn´t been planning for any extra/replaced fans initially, i wanted to see how things worked out with the out-of-the-box fans for the various components.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:10 am

I tried my best to reply to everybody above, but thanks for everybody for providing very useful feedback!

Abula
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:47 am

Thanks for the insight. So the Corsair HX850i itself will physically overlap the bottom fan, or are you "just" saying that its cables will hinder the airflow?
Cables will hinder it no matter the length of the PSU, but i dont think its that bad though, its just like the last end of cables while they turn to the grumeted hole. But what i was saying is that the ideal length is 160mm, you can see my build on my signtature where i use R4 + SS860XP2, you can check the NF-A14 PWM on the bottom, you can judge if you think a 180mm PSU like the HX850i will fit, my guess is no, you wont be able to use the bottom fan, specially into how the HX850i has all rows of modular cable connectors used. One of the reason i didn't went with the LEADEX 1000W platinum was its length, to date i think its the best PSU in the market, just hell of expensive and probably not worth its premium price with so many in the range of $150-200. Either way decide first if you want to use or not the bottom fan slot, second decide if you want a 120 or 140, then decide on the length of the PSU.
Thats very good point. I must admit i figure it would be quiet "enough", but with a GPU that can go completely silent when idle, and possibly the same for the PSU (depending on choice), it might be a good idea to pay more attention here.
The most important thing for you to decide on the CPU cooler is the width of it, in Z97 motherboards you will pass the 1st PCie slot with the NH-D15 for sure, im not totally sure if the LGA2011-3 socket is placed further up in the motherboard to allow to use a cooler like NH-D15 and still use the first PCIe, this is heck of important for someone planning a sli. Personally i think thermalright is ideal for this for its asymmetrical design that grown more toward the top of the motherboard than it goes into the gpus, but each of us have their own preference in brands and coolers, but be very careful to avoid needing to return and get another cooler.
The recommended SLI configuration for an 28 lanes CPU is the 1st and 3rd slot (running at x16/x8).
Thats sad, really dont get it, in terms of having the 2nd 16X electrically wired on the 3rd slot. Now i would try to find a motherboard that give you a little more room, this is more common the Z97 with dual slots between 16X (even though its 8x 8x once you ocupy both). GPUs will probably be the most noisy component, but thinking the STRIX will be passive most of the time, the better you get airflow between the cards the more it will remian totally passive and when it does spin more airflow will also allow better cooling again needing less rpms to keep the gpus under control. From what i remember 80C is where Nvidia is throttoling the cards or the turbo boost, so try to have good airflow between the cards so you dont reach this.
Actually hadnt realized that the 850Pro was available in 1tb. However its also crazy expensive in comparison (330€ vs 520€). But perhaps i could make do with a smaller size (say 512GB). I should probably check out the benchmarks in more detail...
In benchmarks the 850pro is the king of all ssds, but for the real end user the difference are not felt, SSDs biggest strength is their 0 latency, which all ssds will give you that feeling, after that is mili seconds that for the average user it will not be perceived. Now 850pro does come with best warranty on the market, 10 years, so samsung is betting on it very hard, i would assume they know what they are doing if they are backing it up, it can stand a lot more writing and punishing than the usual ssds, still is not enterprise level, but its above average. Now weather you need it or it justifies its price is something that only you and your wallet can answer, personally i recommend crucial MX100 512gb superb ssd for what it costs, not the fastest, but performs very well, and for the average user they will never feel the difference over a 850pro, and the money saved could be easily used toward a new GPU =).
Is the seasonic's prone to coil whine compared to other brands? Any particular alternatives i should be looking at?
I own 4 seasonics atm, one X400, X660 and 2x SS860XP2, and to me none have coil whine, well the x400 has a small electrical buzz if you stick your hear next to the grill of the PSU, but its unperciebable at 30cm away, and i sit well further than that, so its not an issue, on the other 3 i own, i dont hear anything at all ever, so for me seasonic is still the best in my book (well 2nd to leadex). That said, the biggest complains you find on user reviews on seasonic platinum are coil whine, something that any electronic is prone to, specially caps, that said, is not something that happens to all, and personally i believe is a combination of hardware that might trigger this, i can tell you honestly that i don't have any issues, but i do like to warn people before committing to seasonic.

About other brands, in platinum, i like Superflower LEADEX but its heck of expensive. Corsair HXi series are getting great reviews, but its drawback is the length on the R4 if the bottom fan is planned, else is fine, Corsair AXi sereies is also their top of the line, so it should be a good option, from what i recall the none i were seasonics and AXi were Flextronics and CWT, but they are still among the best psu in the market. Some people like a lot BeQuiet DARK POWER PRO 10 series, so it could be a good option as well, specially since its more available in Europe than its on the US. Delta Antec PSU still great, but i don't think they are very quiet under load, Enermax is another brand that imo was one of the best in its time, i have avoided them more out of having mulitple 12V rails, even though i dont think its a big deal, i don't like having to think my lines to balance each rail.

If you drop into gold certified that shoudlnt be that much different, there are options like Quest recommendation that i tested and i can say its a great PSU, the EVGA SuperNova 750 G2, for what it cost in the US, i dont think you can get a better PSU, its based on the Superflower Leadex design, and gotten really good reviews from high end psu sites, the problem is also a big psu in length, so you will have same issue as the HX850i on the R4 using the bottom fan.
I hadn´t been planning for any extra/replaced fans initially, i wanted to see how things worked out with the out-of-the-box fans for the various components.
] The R4 comes with only 2 fans from factory, both 140mm Fractal R2, that are decent but not great, either way i would recommend a little more airflow for a SLI setup, personally im running 3 intake and 1 outtake, i like a lot more to have positive pressure than negative to avoid excessive dust buildup, and since the frontal fans are restricted and behind filters i went with 3 to ensure i ended up with positive pressure.

As final recommendation, i think you liked the HX850i, seems like a great PSU, and they have gotten really good reviews from high end PSU sites, so its a very nice alternative, but for the kind of hardware you are planning, i would consider something like FT05 and since you are going with Asus have FanXpert2 tame down the 180mm fans, since you are not going with mechanical hdds, you can remove the hdd cage and still be fine with a long 180mm psu, the only thing that i dont like on the FT05, is the cablemanagement where you will need to be a little creative. Im probably will be moving toward one in the next month or two, and if you haven't bought by then i could give you some feedback about it, but im still not moving toward SLI, dont think 2 cards will be able to move a 4k res yet, so ill move next gen.

Now if your mind is set on Fractal, for whatever reason, and you like the HX850i, then consider changing the R4 for XL2, from what i have read, the bottom of the fan placement is different and allows biggers PSU with the bottom fan slot used, i think you might be able to use an 180mm PSU with 140mm fan on the bottom, but its up to you to crosscheck this, as i dont own one to tell you for sure.
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by MikeC » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:06 am

FYI, samples of the entire Cryorig line is coming our way. We should have reviews up -- or build guides using them -- soon. Turns out their main marketing man is someone I met in Taipei a while back when he was at Thermalright.

ziphnor -- your build sound great. My only touch of doubt would be the Fractal case -- fine for a single card but can it handle SLI quietly? It might, but we didn't run a dual VGA system test in the R2 or R3 (which are very similar to R4). Check other reviews to see if any have tested the case with 2 hot VGA cards. (Also, tho you probably know, you're highly unlikely to notice any kind of performance gain playing games with the pricier i7-5820K, DDR4 & board compared to high end 1150. I'm assuming gaming is the crux of this build, given the GTX 980?)
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quest_for_silence
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:26 am

ziphnor wrote:Hmm, i want to make sure i can max both CPU and GPU(s) at the same time (planning some OpenCL fun).

Any high quality 500-550W unit will be enough to face your needs.

ziphnor wrote:Not seeing a drastic price difference in the 800+ PSU's

That's another, different problem: often the building cost difference between a 600-650W and an 800-850W PSU is risible (to say, 5 bucks?). But the higher wattage unit very often sports a more conservative (aggressive) fan controller curve.

ziphnor wrote:i thought i might as well leave a bit of headroom.

Headroom for what? Please don't take offense, but "headroom" is just the fig leaf covering up the pointlessness coming by either insecurity or ignorance.

ziphnor wrote:while otherwise being of equivalent quality?

What's quality? Pirsig wrote a book on that.
Anyway, more or less, they are comparable.
Regards,
Luca

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ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:53 am

Abula, first off, thanks for taking the time to provide these detailed answers, they are very helpful. Below, i only respond to the things i have additional questions/comments for, but dont worry, i have taken note of the rest of the info as well.
The most important thing for you to decide on the CPU cooler is the width of it, in Z97 motherboards you will pass the 1st PCie slot with the NH-D15 for sure, im not totally sure if the LGA2011-3 socket is placed further up in the motherboard to allow to use a cooler like NH-D15 and still use the first PCIe, this is heck of important for someone planning a sli. Personally i think thermalright is ideal for this for its asymmetrical design that grown more toward the top of the motherboard than it goes into the gpus, but each of us have their own preference in brands and coolers, but be very careful to avoid needing to return and get another cooler.
Agreed, its fairly critical. Judging from the link provided by faugusztin above, the NH-D15 wont cause problems with the first PCI-E. The article has it mounted on an Asus X99 Deluxe which is almost 100% identical in layout to the Asus X99-A (which just have less components). I almost just want to get the NH-D15 just for knowing that, but the Thermalright also looks good.
As final recommendation, i think you liked the HX850i, seems like a great PSU, and they have gotten really good reviews from high end PSU sites, so its a very nice alternative, but for the kind of hardware you are planning, i would consider something like FT05 and since you are going with Asus have FanXpert2 tame down the 180mm fans, since you are not going with mechanical hdds, you can remove the hdd cage and still be fine with a long 180mm psu, the only thing that i dont like on the FT05, is the cablemanagement where you will need to be a little creative. Im probably will be moving toward one in the next month or two, and if you haven't bought by then i could give you some feedback about it, but im still not moving toward SLI, dont think 2 cards will be able to move a 4k res yet, so ill move next gen.
Now if your mind is set on Fractal, for whatever reason, and you like the HX850i, then consider changing the R4 for XL2, from what i have read, the bottom of the fan placement is different and allows biggers PSU with the bottom fan slot used, i think you might be able to use an 180mm PSU with 140mm fan on the bottom, but its up to you to crosscheck this, as i dont own one to tell you for sure.
The thing that sounded nice about the HX850i was that it could run passively when the computer is idling, apart from that i dont really have a preference :)

As to the case , i am not "set" on Fractal as such, the R4 just have a lot of good reviews, and i like the simple design. The FT05 doesnt look to shabby either though. As to the Fractal R2 XL i have considered it as well (it also has a nice design), i just didnt want to buy a bigger case without having a good reason for it, which you must just have provided :)

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:02 am

MikeC wrote:FYI, samples of the entire Cryorig line is coming our way. We should have reviews up -- or build guides using them -- soon. Turns out their main marketing man is someone I met in Taipei a while back when he was at Thermalright.
Thank you for the info, whats the approx. ETA on that? I am not in an extreme hurry to get my build done (though my Oculus Rift Dk2 would definitely like to be paired to a faster machine :)
ziphnor -- your build sound great. My only touch of doubt would be the Fractal case -- fine for a single card but can it handle SLI quietly? It might, but we didn't run a dual VGA system test in the R2 or R3 (which are very similar to R4). Check other reviews to see if any have tested the case with 2 hot VGA cards. (Also, tho you probably know, you're highly unlikely to notice any kind of performance gain playing games with the pricier i7-5820K, DDR4 & board compared to high end 1150. I'm assuming gaming is the crux of this build, given the GTX 980?)
I realize that the 5820k doesnt provide any gaming benefit over say the 4790k (which in itself probably doesnt provide much over an i5). The thing is that i happen to have an interest in parallel algorithms, and therefore would like a CPU with enough cores to make that fun to play with (without it being a slouch in single threaded performance). At the same time, the x99 platform is not *that* much more expensive than Z97.

I am going with an gtx 980 because of the Oculus Rift Dk2 (and CV1 when we get there), for VR framerate takes on a new meaning :) At the same time i am also very interested in programming for the GPU, so its not only about gaming, but also about my unfortunate tendency to bring my work home :)

I could definitely go with the R2 XL as mentioned above, i just didnt want to get a bigger case without good reason, but i dont want to limit my SLI options down the line because of the case size either.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:08 am

Any high quality 500-550W unit will be enough to face your needs.
Really, even when we starting upping the voltages on the components?
That's another, different problem: often the building cost difference between a 600-650W and an 800-850W PSU is risible (to say, 5 bucks?). But the higher wattage unit very often sports a more conservative (aggressive) fan controller curve.

Thanks for the info.
Headroom for what? Please don't take offense, but "headroom" is just the fig leaf covering up the pointlessness coming by either insecurity or ignorance.
He he, slightly confrontational, but thats okay :) Its probably ignorance in my case. However, in my experience the PSU tends to outlive the system, or at least a lot of its components, so i didn´t see any reason to go with a lower wattage PSU when i might need the extra power later for either more GPU's or a new series of GPUs ( i didnt realize they might have a more aggressive fan profile).
What's quality? Pirsig wrote a book on that. Anyway, more or less, they are comparable.
I meant in terms of stable power delivery (especially for OC'ing).
Last edited by ziphnor on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by xan_user » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:32 am

MikeC wrote:FYI, samples of the entire Cryorig line is coming our way.
a slim 140mm fan? omfg! :mrgreen:
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by faugusztin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:04 pm

ziphnor wrote:Hmm that is a very good point. It would be problematic to lose the first PCIe x16 slot. According to the Asus X99-A manual, the 4th x16 slot cannot be used along with an M.2. SSD and the 3th slot only supports x8 devices, and the 2nd slot shares bandwidth with some usb connectors and a pci-e x1 slot. The recommended SLI configuration for an 28 lanes CPU is the 1st and 3rd slot (running at x16/x8).
FYI with NH-D15 i can put a card in 1st slot on X99 Deluxe, but the fan holder touches the back of the card. In my case GTX980 Strix has a backplate, so no problem there, just something to think about. The heatsink alone is some 2-3 milimeters further away.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:28 pm

xan_user wrote:
MikeC wrote:FYI, samples of the entire Cryorig line is coming our way.

a slim 140mm fan? omfg! :mrgreen:
Well there is also another slim 140mm one, that imo is decent, specially allows on PWM to be drop off to 460rpms,

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:08 pm

ziphnor wrote:I could definitely go with the R2 XL as mentioned above, i just didnt want to get a bigger case without good reason, but i dont want to limit my SLI options down the line because of the case size either.

For a good option for a SLI (and excellent for a single graphics setup), you may consider the Phanteks Enthoo Pro (or even the Enthoo Pro Luxe, if you like "bling bling").

ziphnor wrote:
Any high quality 500-550W unit will be enough to face your needs.
Really, even when we starting upping the voltages on the components?

Yes, of course: obviously it also depends on oc'ing levels, but as you stated: "Hoping for some decent OC, though without excessive voltage" - I think it won't be an issue.
On the other hand the 430W figure is referred to an Haswell-E at 4GHz, and so it's already oc'ed, isn't it?
Just for further reference, IIRC an oc'ed GTX 980 like the ASUS Strix with a 4.6GHz six cores 3960X should draw no more than about 280W (look at the relevant Guru3D review, but you can find similar data on TechReport, if you mind).

ziphnor wrote:He he, slightly confrontational, but thats okay :)

Take into account that english isn't my language, please. :wink:

ziphnor wrote:Its probably ignorance in my case. However, in my experience the PSU tends to outlive the system, or at least a lot of its components, so i didn´t see any reason to go with a lower wattage PSU when i might need the extra power later for either more GPU's or a new series of GPUs

The main reasons are the greater efficiency at lower power draw (so less heat dumped into case, so marginally less case/GPU/CPU fans speed) and mostly (PSU) noise.
About "future requirements", I'm sorry but it is about the same fig leaf of "headroom": nowadays GPUs trend is towards die-shrinks and increased efficiency, so likely future GPUs will be less power hungry than ever.
Anyway, in my humble opinion, you should decide whether you want to go with a SLI setup or not, since the beginning.
Too often I saw people planning for multi-GPU setups but which they actually never implemented, with a resulting unnecessary waste of money, space and noise since start: just for example, you can stick with the R4 with a single GTX 980, if you mind, or indeed you can pick a rightly sized (i.e. probably more efficient, quieter, less expensive) PSU.
Noise-wise the best option for a single GTX 980 setup is (more probably that not) a Seasonic Platinum Fanless 400W (while you can run a fairly oc'ed SLI setup with the a tad larger Platinum Fanless 520W).

ziphnor wrote:I meant in terms of stable power delivery (especially for OC'ing).

The main figures you may check are the so called Transient load response/Advanced Transient Response and ripple/noise. With reference to those, both the quoted Corsair and Seasonic play in the same league.

Abula wrote:specially allows on PWM to be drop off to 460rpms

Actually 370rpms.
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by lodestar » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:06 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:...Just for further reference, IIRC an oc'ed GTX 980 like the ASUS Strix with a 4.6GHz six cores 3960X should draw no more than about 280W (look at the relevant Guru3D review, but you can find similar data on TechReport, if you mind).
That 280w does not tally with what other reviewers say. For example TechGage measured the power draw for a ASUS Strix GTX 980 with an i7-4960x running at 4.5 Ghz as 386w in standard form or 417w if the Strix was overclocked. This was for the whole system from the wall. With Platinum PSU levels of efficiency at say around 92% the 417w would translate to an actual power draw of around 385w. This would suggest to me that a PSU in the 750 to 850w range would be a better choice in order to limit PSU fan speed and noise. To illustrate what I mean by better choice, let's consider using a 500w PSU such as the recently introduced Be Quiet! E10 Straight Power Gold unit. This has been tested by ComputerBase.de (CB) and their data is quite interesting. First of all the E10 500w is an efficient unit but according to CB this efficiency declines once the power draw exceeds 50% of the PSU's capacity or the 250w point. By 385w it is down to around 88%. Secondly the E10 is fitted with a 135mm fan which operates from a minimum of around 200 rpm. This speed only remains until the 180w point at which it starts to elevate. By 385w it is around 600 rpm.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:24 am

lodestar wrote:That 280w does not tally with what other reviewers say.

You raise some questions hard to solve, lodestar, so that I can't help about how reliable those techgage findings actually are.

First of all you have to take note also that the OP stated "Hoping for some decent OC, though without excessive voltage" while the article object is "Taking It To The Limit: Overclocking NVIDIA’s GeForce GTX 970 & 980", so probably they don't have the very same goal.

Moreover that Techgage article doesn't tell how they load the system (I read that they generically talk about "hammer the card with benchmark after benchmark and see it pass a two-hour stress test", while for example the different quoted figures are referred to real world scenarios, like running Crysys 3 or Metro Last Light), how much they cranked up the voltages, how they recorded the power draw figures, so that atm I have no worries rejecting those findings as spurious.

What I can say is that lots of results you can find over the web give power draw figures comparable to the 300W mark.

Just as an instance, the power draw figures of the 8-cores/16-threads Core i7 5960X paired with the GTX 780Ti (so a more power hungry graphics than the most power hungry oc'ed GTX 980s, like the Gigabyte G1) talk about 305W while gaming.
Most of the professional reviewers who measure the overall system power draw reported similar findings, and sometimes with similar rigs (among them Scott Wasson on TechReport with a 4GHz Core i7-3820, Matthew Lambert on bit-tech.net, ccokeman on Overclockers Club, or Koen Crijns on hardware.info with a 4GHz Core i7-5960X).
I would add that, if we wanted to give confidence to the Techgage findings of an about 35W oc'ing power increase, even those well renowned professional reviewers who assesses the graphics-only power draw (like w1zzard on TechPowerUp!, Damient Triolet on Hardware.fr, HT4U.net, and many others) published data apparently compatible with a sub 300W expected power draw (or more compatible with that power level, rather than with an about 400W one).

Definitely I am not able to give a reasoned and reasonable explanation of what those spurious Techgage figures may represent, if any, how those can be (either bad or good) interpreted, and I also guess to understand some of the reasons underneath your pleasure in overkill, but as there's a thin dividing line between how much a proper enthusiast PC should be decked-out, and merely spreading FUD, I think it's more fair to stress out that the 300W target is the power draw you should expect from almost any reasonably oc'ed single GTX-980 setup.

lodestar wrote:To illustrate what I mean by better choice, let's consider using a 500w PSU such as the recently introduced Be Quiet! E10 Straight Power Gold unit.
...snipped out...
By 385w it is around 600 rpm.

Well, I could point out that the fan of an eVGA SuperNOVA G2 850W at that same 385W level should spin around 1200rpm (despite the fact that, to be fair, this PSU is regarded as one of the quietest among those of the same size), but it would be just a sort of cherry picking. :wink:
Eventually, about the declining efficiency of the E10-500 after the 50% capacity, that's also true for any power draw lesser than 50%, and above all for *any* 80Plus certified PSU, so all depend of the expected power draw (see above).

Set aside that, broadly speaking within the same platform the higher wattage units have a more conservative fan profile. Still broadly speaking, this generalization is reasonable even among same wattage units of different platforms.
It may worth to mention that a PSU fan controller can be driven by multiple factors. Very unlikely the load is a primary concern for the PSU fan controller, but the temperature is: and therefore, with the more conservative fan curve (particularly when coupled with an high speed fan, as often Seasonic does), in the vastly majority of cases an higher powered PSU ramps up more quickly its fan, even if actually unnecessary (i.e. staying at the same power level at which it could spin slower).
Obviously, there may be and there actually are exceptions, but as it can be easily noted I didn't give to ziphnor any specific advice, at least up to yesterday.

Actually, for a 300W target, noise-wise the best candidates are the current SPCR top recommended units: so the Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 10 550W, the Super Flower SF-550P14PE Golden King (also in the forms of Rosewill Tachyon or Kingwin Lazer Platinum), the Enermax Platimax 600 (and 500), the Super Flower SF-500F14MG (also in the forms of Rosewill Silent Knight or Chieftec GPS-500C), and some Seasonics, particularly the fanless 400-460-520W and the fanned 650W units.

The proposed Seasonic Platinum 860 is a very good unit, but overpriced and overpowered for the task: not to mention that the newer iterations of the proven five-years old platform sport a more aggressive fan controller than ever.
As many reputable reviewers (HardOCP, JonnyGuru) pointed out, the main competion for the Platinum is... the Seasonic X-Series (which is about the same unit, differently tweaked). So, if you want to stick with Seasonic, with a single card setup I think that the quoted, smaller X-Series should be better candidates, money, efficiency and noise wise, over the somehow pointless Platinum 860 (even if, as already said, I have a soft spot for the Platinum fanless, particularly when they are in the money).
With reference to a possible dual card setup, YMMV, and other platforms (as the quoted Corsair HXi) may turn to be interesting, or even more interesting than the Platinum 860.
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by lodestar » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:44 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Definitely I am not able to give a reasoned and reasonable explanation of what those spurious Techgage figures may represent, if any, how those can be (either bad or good) interpreted, and I also guess to understand some of the reasons underneath your pleasure in overkill, but as there's a thin dividing line between how much a proper enthusiast PC should be decked-out, and merely spreading FUD, I think it's more fair to stress out that the 300W target is the power draw you should expect from almost any reasonably oc'ed single GTX-980 setup.
The issue here is the behaviour of the factory overclocked GTX 980s under maximum stress where the TechGage review suggests that power consumption increases to substantially more than 300w. Some of the reviews you quote in support of the lower power draw figures are for the reference model. One reviewer that did measure the power draw fairly exactly of both a reference model and the Gigabyte GTX 980 overclocked unit under maximum stress conditions was Tom's Hardware. Their power consumption figures are for the card alone, not the rest of the system. They are 177W for the reference model and 279W for the overclocked Gigabyte GTX 980, a difference of just over 100w. This finding bears out what TechGage found. It is an important finding because the Asus STRIX GTX 980 which is involved here is factory overclocked and can be expected to show the same behaviour under maximum stress. This at least ought to be drawn to the OPs attention, and it would not be right to discuss their potential choice of PSU without at least taking account of it.
quest_for_silence wrote:Well, I could point out that the fan of an eVGA SuperNOVA G2 850W at that same 385W level should spin around 1200rpm
You are quoting the TechPowerUp review and again you need to look at the details. The 1200 rpm is based on an ambient temperature of 40°C - 45°C, that is hotbox conditions. Under the same conditions the fan of the Seasonic X750 for example is quoted as running at around 1100 rpm. Neither figure is typical of these PSUs in normal room temperature conditions.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:36 am

lodestar wrote:The issue here is the behaviour of the factory overclocked GTX 980s under maximum stress where the TechGage review suggests that power consumption increases to substantially more than 300w.

Well, no, it shouldn't and it couldn't be that one the issue: the factory overclocked cards (particularly the ASUS Strix the OP is looking at) account for about 20W more than a reference card, so assuming a power consumption increase to substantially more than 300W is a pipe dream (or a pie in the sky, if you rather).
lodestar wrote:Some of the reviews you quote in support of the lower power draw figures are for the reference model.

Maybe you're messing up / misinterpreting the data.

Giving figures for both overall and isolated power draws (in order to be more comprehensive and understandable), I quoted the ASUS Strix reviews whenever possible (because it's the card the OP is looking at), sometimens I had to quote more power hungry cards than the ASUS Strix (like the MSI Gaming is), sometimes I had to quote reference cards (but, as said above, there just add about a 20W peak, so nothing serious), and ALL those data (the Strix ones, the hotter than Strix ones, the reference ones) are consistent with an about 300W overall power draw (I guess that I don't need to stress / clear that I didn't quote the reference model just to support "my power draw figures": here there are not any "my data", these are just "the data").

lodestar wrote:One reviewer that did measure the power draw fairly exactly of both a reference model and the Gigabyte GTX 980 overclocked unit under maximum stress conditions was Tom's Hardware. Their power consumption figures are for the card alone, not the rest of the system. They are 177W for the reference model and 279W for the overclocked Gigabyte GTX 980, a difference of just over 100w. This finding bears out what TechGage found.

I usually don't care what THG say on everything, as it wouldn't be the first time they screwed up, but this specific time I don't understand your claim, just because if you look at that linked page, THG wrote that according to them the Gigabyte actually draws about 12W less than the reference card while gaming (that, on the other hand, it is a rather odd finding on its own, when compared to other reviews ones).

Said so, set aside that I'm costantly referring to real world scenarios (as noted more than once in some of the above posts), the Gigabyte G1 is well known to be the only card in the market to show some abnormal behaviours in some very specific occurrences: particularly with synthetic loads (stress testing with Furmark and similar benchmarks) it is already well known among reviewers for the highest power draw among its siblings, because only Gigabyte deliberately disabled the thermal throttling.
Unfortunately that Gigabyte choice proved to be more an anomaly, or a marketing measure, than an advantage / real feature, because actually even when oc'ed the Gigabyte G1 isn't faster than the competition.

lodestar wrote:It is an important finding because the Asus STRIX GTX 980 which is involved here is factory overclocked

Differently from what you seem to say, the factory overclocked ASUS Strix figures were actually used here in the power draw comparisons and even those confirms an about 300W target, and differently from Gigabyte, ASUS didn't disabled the thermal throttling.

lodestar wrote:and can be expected to show the same behaviour under maximum stress. This at least ought to be drawn to the OPs attention, and it would not be right to discuss their potential choice of PSU without at least taking account of it.

As perhaps I said, maybe you're misinterpreting the situation: first of all, I'll repeat once more, the OP stated "Hoping for some decent OC, though without excessive voltage" and you have to take that into account; besides, that isolated and abnormal behaviour of just the Gigabyte G1 occurred under synthetic loads (therefore sizing the PSU on that value is improper, as the card will be different and as the PSU won't experience that draw under any other, real scenario), and eventually that even under FurMark, something like a Seasonic Platinum Fanless 400W (so a much smaller unit than a generic high quality 500-550W unit) is still perfectly able to handle even that Gigabyte G1.

lodestar wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:Well, I could point out that the fan of an eVGA SuperNOVA G2 850W at that same 385W level should spin around 1200rpm
You are quoting the TechPowerUp review and again you need to look at the details. The 1200 rpm is based on an ambient temperature of 40°C - 45°C, that is hotbox conditions. Under the same conditions the fan of the Seasonic X750 for example is quoted as running at around 1100 rpm. Neither figure is typical of these PSUs in normal room temperature conditions.

Well, no, I think that you're missing the point.

Set aside that inside any enclosure you won't find the normal room temperature, so that you cannot exactly predict the actual behaviour solely on the 20-25°C ambient temp basis, anyway, as said by different words since start, usually higher wattage units reacts more quickly and at an higher grade than their lower wattage counterparts: and that's not out of spite of the manufacturers (or just to agree with me), but for technical/reliability purposes (about that, recently a Seasonic representative blamed here on SPCR their competitors and some of their customers to be a tad too liberal about the fan speed and cooling prowess).

Given that, if you look at the eVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W review of the same TPU, as a matter of fact you will find it costantly running quieter than the 850W sibling under the same conditions: around the 250W level the 750W runs fanless (the 850W fan spun at about 800rpm), around the 420W level the 750W fan spun at about 800rpm (the 850W spins at 1200rpm), they tie around the 600W level, the 750W fan spun at about 1700rpm at about the maximum rated power (the 850W already spun at about 1700rpm at about 670W), and both their scattered data and graphical plots agree on that.

More or less the same goes for the Seasonic X-Series/Platinum, or their derivatives like the Cooler Master Vanguard-series, or other platforms, like the Corsair RM-series (anyway particularly those "start/stop things"), or the Golden Green by SuperFlower (seen on Kingwin Lazer Gold and Rosewill Capstone), but that's a mere exemplification. Obviously whether that's the rule, it may admit some exceptions across the board (and actually there are several ones all over, among quoted and other units).

If you want to stick with ComputerBase.de findings to compare the quoted by you E10 ones, you may look at their Enermax Platimax 500W figures: the fan spins at about 300rpm since the 0W level and up to 500W. So what? As said, there are general rules, there are exceptions, and exceptions don't invalidate the general rules.

Now you almost seem to call into question some technical rules, but actually you're just playing into the hands of the marketing departments, which has long tried to convince end users to buy beefier, more expensive PSU than necessary or desiderable: good luck, lodestar.
I will stick with the rule of thumb that a larger than desiderable PSU is very often a waste of money, noise and efficiency.
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Mrc112 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:02 am

subscribing to this thread because it mimics my future build :D

Especially the Cryorig R1 ultimate is very much on my wanted list. Looked up some youtube clips regarding the sound and found one where they compared it to the NH-D15.
They only tested at max speed, the R1 seemed a bit louder, but the sound characteristic was a LOT more pleasant than the NH-D15.
Curious to see how low they'll go using asus fanexpert2. My guess is that this cooler will become the new high-end king.

regarding the graphix card: it seems that the GTX 980 MSI gaming is slightly more quiet than the Asus Strix. It also OC's a little better.
Those 2 were on my shortlist with the MSI as a winner.
I'd forget the SLI, unless you're gaming on 4K or multi-monitors. By the time a single GTX980 isn't powerfull enough, the GTX980 won't be sold anymore :)

for a case: I'm going with the fortress FT-02. But I'm madly in love with that case. It would help to keep your rig a bit cooler compared to the Fractal.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:54 am

Mrc112 wrote:Curious to see how low they'll go using asus fanexpert2. My guess is that this cooler will become the new high-end king.
Im also curious for them to be ran on a real pwm fan header under fanXpert2, but i doubt they going to drop much lower than the Techpowerup CRYORIG R1 Universal review, but we will see once SPCR reviews it.
Mrc112 wrote:regarding the graphix card: it seems that the GTX 980 MSI gaming is slightly more quiet than the Asus Strix. It also OC's a little better.
Both cards seem very similar in noise, the Techpowerup MSI GeForce GTX 980 Gaming 4 GB review has some remarks about both.
I'm also reviewing the ASUS GTX 980 STRIX right now, and with 0 dBA in idle and 30 dBA while gaming, it is just as quiet as the MSI Gaming.

The ASUS GTX 980 STRIX I'm testing doesn't come with such a big increase, so it may be due to MSI opting for two 8-pin power connectors (375 W), which are completely useless on a card that tops out at around 210W. I also miss a backplate on the card to improve its visual appearance while protecting it against damage (ASUS has one).
Whats in hand still is the overclocking potential, but i personally dont see it worth it, specially on a quiet build. Imo comes down to weather you like a backplate, the asus comes with one, or you like your vram with a heatsink as the MSI has one and the asus is naked there. What i would be tempted to try.... is if a cooler like MK26 could keep this efficient high end gpus completely fanless, i kinda doubt it as other compenents like vrm might need active cooling under load, but im still wondering... this is probably something that i wont try though, as the cooler takes way to much space, and i kinda think it wont fit FT05.

One thing that do intrigue me is the PWM fan design of the new GTX970/980, more into how my GTX780 and GTX750ti couldnt drop down a PWM fan with huge range like NF-S12A PWM, but now things have kinda changed with their 0 rpms design, this is what i would like to try if it would work or not with external fans.... again this type of things makes spend.... =(
quest_for_silence wrote:Actually 370rpms.
Btw Lucas, i have 3 on my way, ill let you know if the one that i tested (was borrowed by a friend) has the same rpms as the new ones i just bought, im hopping i can reach your 360rpms, ill also test it with the MSI bios fan control as this is mainly how will the be used, also bought a slim 120 from prolimatech, from my TJ08-E experience, the back fan placement kinda seem a little more inside than on fractals, so i wanted to ensure that i'll be able to run all, either way the MSI has 2 pwm fans so if the curves are different ill use them independently.
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:36 am

Mrc112 wrote:subscribing to this thread because it mimics my future build :D
Glad to hear that i am not the only one crazy enough to go for a Haswell-E build :)
Especially the Cryorig R1 ultimate is very much on my wanted list. Looked up some youtube clips regarding the sound and found one where they compared it to the NH-D15.
They only tested at max speed, the R1 seemed a bit louder, but the sound characteristic was a LOT more pleasant than the NH-D15.
I am considering waiting on SPCR review on the R1. Which youtube clips where you looking at?
regarding the graphix card: it seems that the GTX 980 MSI gaming is slightly more quiet than the Asus Strix. It also OC's a little better.
Thats very interesting, where did you read that the MSI is more quiet?
for a case: I'm going with the fortress FT-02. But I'm madly in love with that case. It would help to keep your rig a bit cooler compared to the Fractal.
Looks okay, but i dont like the 5.25 bays as i wont even have a single optical drive.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by sjoukew » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:52 am

I would stay away from the Samsung 840 EVO. It has a serious read-spead bug on older data, see anandtech.
There is an fix out which works for Windows systems, but I am wondering if it is just a firmware glitch or that they are hiding something more. There are several competitors out there which more or less similar price/performance figures.

Mrc112
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Location: Belgium

Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Mrc112 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:35 pm

1. for the youtube clip (currently at work, without sound, so don't shoot me if I'm mistaken, I'll doublecheck this evening at home & update my post if I was mistaken)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzKOZR9ED1E

2. for the MSI vs the Asus: I also doublechecked and it seems that the soundlevels are indeed the same :oops:
I checked here btw, they reviewed both cards.
So I guess it comes down to the backplate vs ram heatsinks as Abula said :)
Either way: both cards seem to be quiet out of the box, especially considering these are high-end gaming cards.

3. There is one slight thing that worries me a bit regarding the cryorig R1 ultimate: seems that one of its fans is 25mm thick. That'll mean higher preasure I guess, and that will mean that it would be more difficult to replace that fan with a more quiet one (quiet 25mm fans seem hard to find) without staying at the same performance levels.
Might be too bad, because I really like those fans that were equiped with my prolimatech Genesis

4. Regarding the FT02: the front bays are indeed it's biggest drawback, although I found some sollutions: Silverstond has a drivebay that gives you extra USB3-ports, a card reader and 2 additional mounting spaces for SSD's. The link to that thingy can be found in the 2nd to last post on this page
Granted: the extra costs & modifications are not for everyone, but it really helps in improving this case. If you want a high-end gaming rig that you can OC and keep quiet when you want to, this is the case for you :)

Ow yeah: I forgot: C'mon Mike, review that Cryorig !!! :lol:

Pappnaas
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Pappnaas » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:00 am

sjoukew wrote:I would stay away from the Samsung 840 EVO. It has a serious read-spead bug on older data, see anandtech.
There is an fix out which works for Windows systems, but I am wondering if it is just a firmware glitch or that they are hiding something more. There are several competitors out there which more or less similar price/performance figures.
Even Intel had their share of firmware mishap. No need to bash Samsung and doom all of their products for a corrected mistake.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:11 am

sjoukew wrote:I would stay away from the Samsung 840 EVO. It has a serious read-spead bug on older data, see anandtech.
There is an fix out which works for Windows systems, but I am wondering if it is just a firmware glitch or that they are hiding something more. There are several competitors out there which more or less similar price/performance figures.
I have an 840 EVO at work, and i just applied that fix a few days ago. It is certainly something of a strange problem, but i dont have any reason not to trust that it is fixed now. Any particular alternatives you had in mind?

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by MikeC » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:18 am

ziphnor wrote:I have an 840 EVO at work, and i just applied that fix a few days ago. It is certainly something of a strange problem, but i dont have any reason not to trust that it is fixed now. Any particular alternatives you had in mind?
No other current Samsung we know of has this problem. Check our latest duo-SSD review -- http://www.silentpcreview.com/Crucial_M ... ng_850_Pro
Mike Chin, SPCR Editor/Publisher
Support SPCR by buying your gear through this link: Amazon

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