Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Got a shopping cart of parts that you want opinions on? Get advice from members on your planned or existing system (or upgrade).

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Hex
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:40 am

Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:04 am

Hello there good people of the silentpcreview forum. I've been on here often, but now I think I'm ready to ask for advice.

I need help picking parts for my first build.

purpose:
1080p gaming, particularly EVE Online, light video editing, and everyday email/web/spreadsheets stuff, and maybe some other games.

budget:
ehhm.. as little as I can get away with while still achieving the purpose. I was _loosely_ aiming at €800 / $900

Notes:
Also, I'm located in germany.. But most parts are available at similar prices here. Only there is no newegg here... *weeps*

Indoor temps:
It's around 60°F in here now, and during summer I'm guesstimating it'd be around 70, though it can get to 90 indoors at the height of summer, only for a month at the very most.

____________

Parts I've outlined so far:

Display: I have a Dell U2414H 1920 x 1080 display, I'd use that at first and maybe get another of the same or similar in future... I'm thinking EVE on one display, TS3 and a bunch of spreadsheets and other eve tools on the other display 8)

CPU: Xeon E3-1231 V3 (€250)
because the recommended CPU for EVE is an i7, but it seems the Xeon is much the same only cheaper and without the integrated gpu..?

GPU: GTX 960 (no idea which flavor yet though, evga/msi/gigabyte, two fans..?)
I keep hearing that the 960 is a disappointment, but I understand it should handle 1080p gaming alright and be enough to run EVE on max graphics without breaking a sweat- the recommended gpu is a GTX 560 so the 960 should be more than enough and work for most other games too?

Storage: A SSD is planned for now, maybe add a HDD later on.

RAM: 8GB should do it? Anything else to watch out for?

Oh, and an optical drive would be nice - I work on a rMBP that has no drive, so it'd be nice to have the option. I notice some cases don't have the slot though, so if it comes down to it, I'd prioritise a good affordable quiet case over it having a drive.


Aaaaand then I run into trouble.. The recommendations and reviews on this site are excellent, but I'm still confused as there's a bunch of variables I don't understand. What MoBo specs do I need, besides 1150 socket? Which chipset, H97 or B85..or something else? I know there's a good list of recommended cases, but ATX or microATX? Will a smaller case always be louder or be difficult to build for beginners? I have small hands but it's my first build. Which CPU cooler should I get, and how does that affect the case choice? Which case fans? Do I need a sound card? I'm not an audiophile but EVE has some nice music. How do I know what PSU to get? Since the Xeon has no integrated graphics, should I get a mobo with graphics.. or what purpose does that even serve? What about connectivity? etc etc etc.. ...And then I drown in browser tabs trying to figure all that out.

I share a studio apartment, hence I want it to be quiet :)

Thank you for reading, any advice appreciated!
-Hex

CA_Steve
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:27 am

Welcome to SPCR.

Eve Online is a pretty old game - I doubt that it requires much in terms of modern hardware. Heck, you can prove it yourself by benchmarking it on your rMBP. What's the CPU and GPU utilization when you set the display to 1080p? ...and what's the specs on your rMBP?

Back in 2011, fanboys were saying the game is single threaded. So, an i7 has got to be overkill, unless they recompiled the game in 2013. Finally, there a difference between saying a quad core is recommended to suggesting using a hyperthreaded quad core. In conclusion, yer game's developers are confusing. :D <end of rant>

Back to the basics. Check out SPCR's Gaming PC articles. An i5 is the sweet spot for games. If you are budget constrained and don't plan to play games more complex than Eve, an i3 will work. The GTX 960 is great card for 1080p. You can certainly drop down to the GTX 750 Ti if money is tight. Here's a quick concept build. I grabbed the mATX motherboard as it was the cheapest Asus H97 chipset model listed. The case is an ATX, but if you want smaller there are some decent mATX cases.

Your stressed load with a GTX 960 and an i5 is in the 250W range...call it 200-220W while gaming. So, you don't need a huge PSU. The be quiet! SP e9 is a decent supply. There are others :)

pcpartpicker didn't list local pricing for the better GTX 960 cards...Asus Strix, MSI Gaming, etc. All of these are passive at idle and the fans only turn on with heavier loads (gaming).

So, 700-ish euros plus still need a copy of Windows, an ODD, a gfx card and a hard drive. GTX 960's are in the 220 euro area, a 2TB WD Green HDD is 88...
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Maelwys
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Maelwys » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:40 am

I used to play EVE Online just fine on my rMBP with a GT 650M and i7-3720 at 2880x1800, so that gives an idea of how much (or little) performance is needed to run it well. I kept the settings somewhere in the middle of the road, mostly because of Jita, but I always found EVE was much more about desktop space than high performance requirements.

As such, I think CA_Steve's build is extremely solid and will give you plenty of headroom for other games. The GTX 960 will perform admirably on a single 1080p screen, but I can't speak to multiple monitor performance. You could spring for a GTX 970 if you really want to knock the graphics out of the park and possibly run multiple monitors in EVE at the same time, but I think that puts you firmly outside of your budget.

Regarding cards, the Asus Strix and MSI TwinFrozr are both very nice, quiet versions of the 960 and should be available to you locally. I generally lean towards Asus products myself because I have used them for more than a decade without any trouble.
Main PC: Antec Solo | Corsair HX620 | Asus P5B-Deluxe WiFi | Intel C2Q 9300 | Passive Scythe Ninja Rev. B | 6GB OCZ DDR2-800 | Sapphire HD 5850 | Samsung HD501LJ | 1 Nexus 120mm Exhaust @ 7V.

Hex
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:22 pm

CA_Steve wrote:Welcome to SPCR.
Thanks! :)
CA_Steve wrote: Eve Online is a pretty old game - I doubt that it requires much in terms of modern hardware. Heck, you can prove it yourself by benchmarking it on your rMBP. What's the CPU and GPU utilization when you set the display to 1080p? ...and what's the specs on your rMBP?
my rMBP has a i5 2.8 Ghz, Intel Iris 1024 MB graphics, 16 GB of ram.. anything else that'd be relevant to know? Sorry for the noob-ness, but how do I benchmark it?

Well, for now I just watched the EVE CPU process in activity monitor while the game was open on the 1080p display (also set to that resolution of course)

when not doing much: 40 to 60% (of 200%) and the fan blew at 5641rpm. It has a lone fan, the poor thing. // I got this laptop for work and portability, in my defence.
Opening the starmap gets it to 70-80%
The CPU core 1 and 2 temps were well over 90°C (194°F) and I hadn't undocked yet.
Flying out didn't change much tho, except it got up to 90% for a bit.
Does the fan blow so hard because of the wimpy graphics, or the cpu though?
CA_Steve wrote: Back in 2011, fanboys were saying the game is single threaded. So, an i7 has got to be overkill, unless they recompiled the game in 2013. Finally, there a difference between saying a quad core is recommended to suggesting using a hyperthreaded quad core. In conclusion, yer game's developers are confusing. :D <end of rant>
Yes, fellow players have noted that their i5's work fine, I'm not sure why they'd recommend an i7 rather than a quad core i5.. future proofing? But regardless, video editing does benefit from hyperthreading, so I feel like it's sort of justified.. Especially since an i5 wouldn't be much cheaper than the xeon, and the only thing I gain is the integrated graphics... which.. I don't need?

lol, I'm putting question marks on everything because I don't want it to sound like a statement of fact. I don't know what you'd need integrated graphics for if you have a video card anyway.
CA_Steve wrote: Back to the basics. Check out SPCR's Gaming PC articles. An i5 is the sweet spot for games. If you are budget constrained and don't plan to play games more complex than Eve, an i3 will work. The GTX 960 is great card for 1080p. You can certainly drop down to the GTX 750 Ti if money is tight. Here's a quick concept build. I grabbed the mATX motherboard as it was the cheapest Asus H97 chipset model listed. The case is an ATX, but if you want smaller there are some decent mATX cases.
Cool, thank you so so much for putting in your time on that build, wow! Oh yes, I do like Crucial SSDs :) Okay, so if I need to save money I can switch the xeon with the i5, and the 960 with the GTX 750Ti. I'll keep that in mind.

As for the case.. well, is there some reason not to get a smaller case?

I'd like to save space, but not if it's going to be difficult to keep cool, or super tricky to assemble.

I see the SilverStone TJ08E on the case recommendations on here, and I finally found it here: http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info. ... 53548.html
what do you reckon? The Fractal R5 also looks good though, and if I remember correctly it was used for a build guide on here.

Any particular reason for 2x4GB instead of 1x8GB for the ram? I haven't searched shops for ram prices yet, can I assume that any affordable but well-reviewed ram from a reputable brand will be fine..

Okay, H97 chipset it is then, no matter if it's with i5 or xeon?
CA_Steve wrote: Your stressed load with a GTX 960 and an i5 is in the 250W range...call it 200-220W while gaming. So, you don't need a huge PSU. The be quiet! SP e9 is a decent supply. There are others :)
ooh you found the Be Quiet PSU in Germany, oddly I hadn't seen them around much and was starting to think they weren't popular here. Excellent, I hope they live up to their name.

I was expecting it to be more, but if 500W is enough that's a good thing :)
CA_Steve wrote: pcpartpicker didn't list local pricing for the better GTX 960 cards...Asus Strix, MSI Gaming, etc. All of these are passive at idle and the fans only turn on with heavier loads (gaming).
passive at idle sounds good.
CA_Steve wrote: So, 700-ish euros plus still need a copy of Windows, an ODD, a gfx card and a hard drive. GTX 960's are in the 220 euro area, a 2TB WD Green HDD is 88...
yupp, though I don't have to get the ODD or HDD right away.
oh, and thanks for picking out the cpu cooler as well, I was so confused about that! will this one fit in a mATX case also?

Thank you for your time and thoughtful response! :) Much appreciated.

___________

Maelwys wrote:I used to play EVE Online just fine on my rMBP with a GT 650M and i7-3720 at 2880x1800, so that gives an idea of how much (or little) performance is needed to run it well. I kept the settings somewhere in the middle of the road, mostly because of Jita, but I always found EVE was much more about desktop space than high performance requirements.
yeah, Jita does that :) It's a great game, and having lived on 13" apple laptops for many years now and not gaming much at all, I look forward to having a bit more.. power. The GTX 320 (M?) on my previous laptop (2010 MBP) still runs eve, in fact the rMBP doesn't do that much better. It's so sad when my corp mates are admiring the new sun-rays streaming through the asteroid field and I'm there like ".. aw crap.."
Maelwys wrote: As such, I think CA_Steve's build is extremely solid and will give you plenty of headroom for other games. The GTX 960 will perform admirably on a single 1080p screen, but I can't speak to multiple monitor performance. You could spring for a GTX 970 if you really want to knock the graphics out of the park and possibly run multiple monitors in EVE at the same time, but I think that puts you firmly outside of your budget.
Regarding cards, the Asus Strix and MSI TwinFrozr are both very nice, quiet versions of the 960 and should be available to you locally. I generally lean towards Asus products myself because I have used them for more than a decade without any trouble.
yeah, it's tempting to go that extra bit more and multiple monitor eve does sound appealing, but it's too expensive, especially since I'd have to get a second display as well.

Are these the cards mentioned? MSI TwinFrozr (https://www.alternate.de/html/product/1179969) and Asus Strix (https://www.alternate.de/ASUS/GeForce-S ... ct/1181153)

btw, how can you tell they're quiet versions, simply because you know these product lines? Just curious because I couldn't tell these apart from the other versions.

Thank you so much for your time and advice!
-Hex

CA_Steve
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:30 pm

You didn't mention the year of the rMBP build. In any case, note that the mobile intel i5 is a dual core 4 thread CPU, while the desktop i5 is a 4 core 4 thread CPU. Anyway, you get a feel for how much horsepower it takes to run your game at 1080p.

Video editing: if you use an app that makes use of Quick Sync, then having the integrated gfx can be an immense improvement on your transcoding speeds, etc. If not, then no benefit to having the integrated gfx.

Case: I just grabbed the R5 as it's an awesome case. I was hoping those more familiar with uATX and mITX builds would chime in. The good news is PC power use is trending downward. Less power-> less heat to get rid of. So, smaller cases can work well. Again, look through some of the recent gaming build articles.

RAM: dual channel memory controller-> doubles the memory bandwidth -> noticable speed hit in apps if you only populate 1 slot. The specific RAM I selected is pretty good. There's a slight performance improvement moving up to 1833..but, not enough to obsess over.

Chipset: if you don't overclock, H97 is fine. Read through the mfgrs qualified list to see if they support Xeon. Usually, it's fine.

cpu cooler: This is an awesome cooler...almost to the point where I'd say choose a case that'll fit the cooler (160mm clearance).
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:35 pm

btw, how can you tell they're quiet versions, simply because you know these product lines? Just curious because I couldn't tell these apart from the other versions.
Because I read reviews.:D
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

mehimu
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by mehimu » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:39 pm

All these discussion are looking good, nice discussion. Gain some knowledge also.
Gratuitous blog link deleted by Mod

quest_for_silence
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:58 pm

Hex wrote:Does the fan blow so hard because of the wimpy graphics, or the cpu though?

Because of the very small size of the blower, of the high CPU load and temp, and the densely packed "case".
Hex wrote:As for the case.. well, is there some reason not to get a smaller case?

I'd like to save space, but not if it's going to be difficult to keep cool, or super tricky to assemble.
You pretty much pointed out some of the main reasons why shrinking dimensions often may be counterproductive/self-defeating.

Hex wrote:I see the SilverStone TJ08E on the case recommendations on here, and I finally found it here: http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info. ... 53548.html
what do you reckon? The Fractal R5 also looks good though, and if I remember correctly it was used for a build guide on here.
The TJ08 is maybe not the best option, noise-wise: its cooling prowess is mostly due to the humongous front 180mm Air Penetrator, which is a bit tricky to make quiet, and when you actually do it, probably it cannot cool that much, so that a more traditional Silverstone PS07 might serve you better.

It's not a specific flaw of this (good) case, broadly speaking the quietest enclosures have a solid front (and top) panel, but a solid front panel means worse thermals, and so shrinking dimensions with these worse thermals often leads towards higher fans rotational speed, i.e. more noise. When you get rid of solid panels in order to get better thermals (like in the TJ08), you loose the relevant muffling function, so whether internal fans doesn't have to dial up their speeds, nonetheless you get more noise (over an R5-style enclosure) due to a wider sound escape and often a more straight path to ears.

Broadly speaking, shrinking dimensions means more money and more difficulties to have all the things quiet (at least with your proposed setup), and definitely it's up to your call.

Hex wrote:ooh you found the Be Quiet PSU in Germany, oddly I hadn't seen them around much and was starting to think they weren't popular here. Excellent, I hope they live up to their name.

He picked up the previous E9, which though quiet I don't think it is Haswell-certified, and the newer BN234 is way better than it (on the other hand it costs noticeably more). Another option, if price were favourable, is the Enermax Platimax 500, all in all it's a very similar unit to the BN234, but it's probably better built, if you care about.

Hex wrote:I was expecting it to be more, but if 500W is enough that's a good thing :)

Actually you don't need more than a BN230, even with an overclocked Core i7.

Hex wrote:yupp, though I don't have to get the ODD or HDD right away.

Do you mean either you won't have any ODD, or you don't need no external 5,25 bay?

Hex wrote:will this one fit in a mATX case also?

It depends of the specific mATX case, it fits a TJ08.
Regards,
Luca

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CA_Steve
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:17 am

He picked up the previous E9, which though quiet I don't think it is Haswell-certified,
au contraire
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

quest_for_silence
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:00 am

CA_Steve wrote:
He picked up the previous E9, which though quiet I don't think it is Haswell-certified,
au contraire
I stand still, Steve: actually no BeQuiet PSU seems to be Haswell "certified" (those are just marketing fluff to say the comply, support, fulfill... but I didn't find the Intel-released sticker "Haswell certified"), but if you were able to find an official claim I would be glad to stand corrected. :wink:

With reference to the E9, it cannot be certified because it's a group-regulated unit, a design explicitly excluded by the certification process.

Anyway, that isn't the most important drawback: performance wise and quality wise the E9 is noticeably inferior to its successor, the E10, although it's a very quiet unit on its own.
Regards,
Luca

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Hex
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:14 pm

Sorry for the delay, I'm entertaining a visitor atm, rather cut into my internet time.
CA_Steve wrote:You didn't mention the year of the rMBP build. In any case, note that the mobile intel i5 is a dual core 4 thread CPU, while the desktop i5 is a 4 core 4 thread CPU. Anyway, you get a feel for how much horsepower it takes to run your game at 1080p.
oh sorry, it's from 2014.
CA_Steve wrote:Video editing: if you use an app that makes use of Quick Sync, then having the integrated gfx can be an immense improvement on your transcoding speeds, etc. If not, then no benefit to having the integrated gfx.
Aha, that's good to know. Being a mac person I'm not sure what would be similar to final cut, maybe premier.. which apparently does support Quick Sync, as far as a quick googling says. though how much benefit this brings compared to having more threads.. hmm.
CA_Steve wrote: RAM: dual channel memory controller-> doubles the memory bandwidth -> noticable speed hit in apps if you only populate 1 slot. The specific RAM I selected is pretty good. There's a slight performance improvement moving up to 1833..but, not enough to obsess over.
hm ok! thanks for explaining :)
CA_Steve wrote:
btw, how can you tell they're quiet versions, simply because you know these product lines? Just curious because I couldn't tell these apart from the other versions.
Because I read reviews.:D
oh, burn! I couldn't discern that from there though, it just gave me the feeling reviews can't be trusted..

___________________

quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:I'd like to save space, but not if it's going to be difficult to keep cool, or super tricky to assemble.
You pretty much pointed out some of the main reasons why shrinking dimensions often may be counterproductive/self-defeating.
ah fudge.
quest_for_silence wrote: The TJ08 is maybe not the best option, noise-wise: its cooling prowess is mostly due to the humongous front 180mm Air Penetrator, which is a bit tricky to make quiet, and when you actually do it, probably it cannot cool that much, so that a more traditional Silverstone PS07 might serve you better.

It's not a specific flaw of this (good) case, broadly speaking the quietest enclosures have a solid front (and top) panel, but a solid front panel means worse thermals, and so shrinking dimensions with these worse thermals often leads towards higher fans rotational speed, i.e. more noise. When you get rid of solid panels in order to get better thermals (like in the TJ08), you loose the relevant muffling function, so whether internal fans doesn't have to dial up their speeds, nonetheless you get more noise (over an R5-style enclosure) due to a wider sound escape and often a more straight path to ears.

Broadly speaking, shrinking dimensions means more money and more difficulties to have all the things quiet (at least with your proposed setup), and definitely it's up to your call.
hmm that is quite the predicament. It's odd to me that the TJ08 is on the recommended list of cases then. I shall have a look a the PS07 though, thanks :)
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:yupp, though I don't have to get the ODD or HDD right away.

Do you mean either you won't have any ODD, or you don't need no external 5,25 bay?
I'd like to be able to install a ODD in the case itself.. but, if not possible, I'd just get a separate one. I meant I don't consider the cost of a ODD or HDD to be count as part of the cost of the build, as I'd probably get these one way or another in future even if I wasn't building anything.

________________________

Soooo revised draft shopping/options list:

CPU:
i5-4690
advantage for apps using Quick Synch
-or-
xeon e3-1231 v3 (note to self: check mfgrs qualified list, whatever that may be, to see if they support Xeon)
-or-
a similar i5, depending on what's most affordable locally, I suppose?

It still really irks me that they recommend an i7 for eve... those mysterious rapscallions!


CPU Cooler
Scythe Kotetsu SCKTT-1000

I may look at reviews for coolers, but given Steve's recommendation it'd be a solid choice for sure.
(Note to self; ensure 160mm clearance in case)


GPU
ASUS GeForce STRIX-GTX960-DC2OC-2GD5
-or-
MSI GeForce GTX 960 Gaming 100ME (twin frozr)
-or-
a 750 Ti for saving money
-or-
970 if I get a raise


Case
Fractial Design define R5
at €118 about 54L volume.
-or-
Silverstone PS07B
at around €87 and about 31L volume.
-ooor maybe-
CORSAIR CARBIDE AIR 240
at €79 at about 33L volume
(as seen here)
no ODD though, and only 120 mm for cpu cooler :/

hum hem.. I'm so torn about the case size.

RAM
x2 4GB

PSU
Be quiet! STRAIGHT POWER E9 | 500W (BN BN192) €68.83
-or-
be quiet! Straight Power 10-CM 500W ATX 2.4 (BN 234) €??
this one doesn't say the product number but this appears to be the same one¿
-or-
Enermax Platimax 500 €109

so.. to sum up.. the E9 would do fine, the E10 would be better and the Enermax..?


Motherboard
Asus H97M-E Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
-or-
nah, it's 2 AM and I couldn't be bothered to find any others right now :|


Thanks again for your time... and patience :mrgreen:
-Hex

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:18 am

Hex wrote:It's odd to me that the TJ08 is on the recommended list of cases then. I shall have a look a the PS07 though, thanks :)

The TJ08-E is a competitive offer: more cooling (if you need it for hot hardware) for enough quietness, just it's not adequate to bedroom quietness level if required, at least with the stock front fan.
Do not use just the recommended lists: after picking up some options, read some relevant articles:
  • Fractal Design Define R5 (not directly comparable, different setup, which will give you ballpark figures for noise target with the GPU of choice)
    Bitfenix Prodigy (not directly comparable, different setup, but it will give you ballpark figures for noise target with contemporary GPUs, the mATX versione of the Prodigy has better thermals than the tested mITX one, it may deserve better fans)
    Corsair Carbide Air 240 (not directly comparable, different setup, but it will give you ballpark figures for noise target with contemporary GPUs, it deserves better air filters, maybe like a custom DEMCiflex set, and it may deserve better fans)
    Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 (it may deserve better fans for maximum quietness)
    Fractal Design Define Mini (it may deserve better fans for maximum quietness)
    SilverStone Precision PS07 (it may deserve better fans for maximum quietness)
    SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E (it may deserve better fans for maximum quietness)
    Fractal Design Define R2 (for reference, the R5 is clearly better)

Hex wrote:hum hem.. I'm so torn about the case size.

It's just a trade off, the more you shrink, the more you have to spend, and under a certain threshold you can't shrink without noise-penalties: just for instance, one way to improve TJ08-E is to swap its front fan with the better (quieter) Silverstone AP182, you can have a better idle/low load quietness and the same cooling prowess at load, but for a noticeable added cost (the same goes for any of the quoted enclosures, to be fair, at least for bedroom-like quietness levels).

Hex wrote:this one doesn't say the product number but this appears to be the same one¿

Yes, that is the BN234.

Hex wrote:so.. to sum up.. the E9 would do fine, the E10 would be better and the Enermax..?

Performance wise the Enermax is better than the E9 and somehow comparable to the E10 but with a better build quality than both (better parts selection), and it is quieter than those BeQuiet PSUs over a 300W DC load, if you care about.

If I were you, probably I would grab the E10-400, around 60-65 euros, same quietness at your expected load power draw: it's not modular so a bit more tricky to neatly and tidy cabling (particularly in some smaller enclosures: check the cables length).

Hex wrote:Motherboard
Asus H97M-E Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
-or-
nah, it's 2 AM and I couldn't be bothered to find any others right now

If you don't plan any OC or SLI, IMVHO an ASRock H97M Anniversary could be a noticeably cheaper but viable option, as usually ASRock has the best UEFI along with ASUS, nowadays.
With reference to the quoted ASUS, another ASRock board of comparable quality is the H97M Pro4, while other good options (mainly from MSI) are more probably that not either more expensive than the ASUS, or of less quality than it (and anyway with a less flexible UEFI).
Gigabyte boards IMVHO should be regarded for Hackintosh setups only.
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:55 am

...and I wouldn't bother with the GTX 970 for 1080p. If you were upgrading to 1440p, sure.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Hex
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:10 pm

CA_Steve wrote:...and I wouldn't bother with the GTX 970 for 1080p. If you were upgrading to 1440p, sure.
:mrgreen: don't tempt me!

___________________
It's impossible to talk about the SilverStone Precision PS07 without comparing it to the Temjin TJ08-E. The Temjin is superior in both thermal and acoustic performance thanks to its larger, better sounding stock fan, and its more direct intake vent. The PS07 uses smaller, less efficient fans that pull air from slots along the sides and bottom of the front bezel like many "silent" cases. The door covering the fans might make it marginally quieter but this is negated by the increase in fan speeds needed to make up the difference in cooling. The numbers don't lie — the temperatures we recorded at similar noise levels favored the TJ08-E by a considerable margin
source link
quest_for_silence wrote:Do not use just the recommended lists: after picking up some options, read some relevant articles...
thank you for the list of links, i'm still slugging through them.

though it seems safe to assume that the TJ08-E with the SilverStone AP182 fan would be quieter than the PS07B. Is there a definition of bedroom quiet? I got a dB measuring iphone app (ha, I bet that's accurate) that says it's 30dB in there- fridge, two laptops, neighbors walking around upstairs, that kinda thing.



So I made a pcpartpicker list.. phew, this PC would cost a bunch more if we counted the man hours involved.

Notes:

RAM:
I found this: Crucial 2x4GB DDR-1600, 240 pin, CL 9
for €60. Maybe I effed something up as that seems too cheap somehow.

PSU:
found the be quiet! 10 400W here
BN230 it is. As for it not being modular, I only have a vague idea of what that means..but it says the cable length is 55 - 115 cm (45") which sounds like it should be enough, no?
you can see the stats in english here (it does say Haswell compatible)

CPU:
So, I saw a affordable tray version of the i5 4590 at caseking, it's not the 4690 you put on the build, steve, but it would still be just fine, I hope? It compares alright with the xeon I had in mind before: and not too bad with the 4690 either.

GPU:
picked the MSI because it was a bit cheaper than the Asus.

ODD:
I'm an idiot, forget the ODD. I'll get an external one, then I can use it on both my rMBP and the PC.

woooo.. still in budget... weell, sort of... though maybe I could still get a nicer motherboard, or some more case fans?

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:46 pm

Holy cow - 25 euros for a case fan...this just gets back into the tradeoffs of more expensive case or retrofitting a cheaper case with better components. :D

CPU: You give up 200MHz of base and turbo speeds for the $ savings. <shrugs> Tray vs box: Tray is OEM product vs Box is retail product. Box product comes with cooler you don't need. In the US, the warranty time is less for the OEM product (1yr vs 3 yr). Can't speak to Europe warranties.

PSU: modular means you can disconnect the cables you don't need and store them elsewhere - instead of cluttering up the case. Nice review at Computer Base. Too bad there isn't an inexpensive CM version of the E10 400.

The rest looks good.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Abula
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Abula » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:48 pm

The TJ08-E is a great case, but the AP181 that comes included its a big fan, and its not quiet unless you are able to drop it below 500rpms, and its not that easy, motherboards like Asus with FanXpert2 can, in my personal experience i was able to drop it to around 440rpms with the fan switch to low and running the Asus FanXpert2 tuning, still its not dead silent, as the frontal mesh does add some wosh to it, but its pretty good combo, but i was able to tell the fan was on on very quiet nights, that said.... under standard circumstances i dont think you will, it really depends on your ambient noise.

Im about to do a build for a friend.... maybe in a month or two, probably will use a TJ08-E, but i know he is not a silence freek like me, and he will be overclocking, so i feel better with the TJ08-E and the ability to push vast amount of air if he requires it, personally if i were to build again on the TJ08-E i would probably get a AP182 that allows even lower rpms than the AP181. You can see links on my GameMi build on my sig if you want to check more about both ap181/182 and how different motherboards can control them.

Just a last comment, the crucial you linked is not low profile, but standard profile, it should be fine, just its not the one that i use or recommend, Crucial Ballistix Sport Very Low Profile 8GB Kit (4GBx2) DDR3-1600 1.35V UDIMM 240-Pin Memory Modules BLS2C4G3D1609ES2LX0
GameMi - Intel i9 9900K + Gigabyte Z390 AM + Asus RTX2080Ti Strix | MiniMi - Intel i7 8700K + ASRock Z370ITX + MSI RTX2080Ti
StreaMi - Intel i9 7940X + AsRock X299 Taichi + Asus GTX1080Ti Strix | WorkMi - AMD 1950X + AsRock X399 Taichi + MSI GTX1080
ServeMi - Intel Xeon E3-1230 + Supermicro X9SCM-F + 144TB | StoreMi - Intel Xeon E3 1240v5 + Supermicro X11SSM-F + 42TB | CamMi - Intel i7 4770K + MSI H81i + Blue Iris

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:22 am

Hex wrote:Is there a definition of bedroom quiet?

I would say it's when you're sleeping at night in the same room and anyone can't say whether the PC is running or not.

Hex wrote:I got a dB measuring iphone app (ha, I bet that's accurate) that says it's 30dB in there- fridge, two laptops, neighbors walking around upstairs, that kinda thing.

If your apartment is an open space with a fridge running inside, you might not need "a bedroom quiet rig", I think that you shouldn't be able to hear it over the fridge at night.

Hex wrote:RAM:
I found this: Crucial 2x4GB DDR-1600, 240 pin, CL 9
for €60. Maybe I effed something up as that seems too cheap somehow.

Yes, it's comparatively cheaper than average (70-75), but that's good as long you don't need a low profile RAM.

Hex wrote:As for it not being modular, I only have a vague idea of what that means..but it says the cable length is 55 - 115 cm (45") which sounds like it should be enough, no?

Yes, it sounds fine to me also.

Hex wrote:(it does say Haswell compatible)

Don't mind about it, the E10 is a different kind of PSU than the previous E9.

Hex wrote:CPU:
So, I saw a affordable tray version of the i5 4590 at caseking, it's not the 4690 you put on the build, steve, but it would still be just fine, I hope?

IMHO you won't notice any practical difference in real life scenarios, even better, IMVHO you shouldn't be able to notice any useability difference with the cheaper 4440 also.
As already said by Steve, the tray CPUs have a 1-years limited warranty (even in EU).

Hex wrote:GPU:
picked the MSI because it was a bit cheaper than the Asus.

I won't mind about that difference: the Strix is a slightly better card (it runs sligthly cooler, with averagely better stock clocks, and it sports a backplate) so in case those 5 euros more are well worth, but all in all they are perfectly comparable options.

IMHO it's more important that you will buy from a seller who won't put any object to any noise-related RMA request (like Amazon does, but please take note that I don't know how Alternate.de compares to), because graphic cards sometimes may whine.

Hex wrote:though maybe I could still get a nicer motherboard, or some more case fans?

If I were you, I would assemble the rig and just then I'd evaluate whether you need different fans, or not, while about the mobo, a better one (like an ASUS H97M-Plus or better) mainly should be more reliable, if you care about (personally I won't care about, if you upgrade your PC every 2-3 years).
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Mats » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:45 am

geizhals gives you more options, although I have a feeling that you want less options... :D

A 180 mm fan is so overkill for your system.

Hex
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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:42 am

Oof, I'm back from my hiatus.
CA_Steve wrote:Holy cow - 25 euros for a case fan...this just gets back into the tradeoffs of more expensive case or retrofitting a cheaper case with better components. :D
well.. yes, though if it's true that I can get this AP182 fan to run slower and therefore quieter than the included fan, it seems worth it. Also, the TJ08 case with the extra fan together are €7 more expensive than if I got the R5.. so it still seems alright to me. The question is if it's significantly noisier than the R5 would be. I don't need this to be the quietest 1080p gaming pc ever built, I just want it to be among the quietest.
CA_Steve wrote: CPU: You give up 200MHz of base and turbo speeds for the $ savings. <shrugs> Tray vs box: Tray is OEM product vs Box is retail product. Box product comes with cooler you don't need. In the US, the warranty time is less for the OEM product (1yr vs 3 yr). Can't speak to Europe warranties.

PSU: modular means you can disconnect the cables you don't need and store them elsewhere - instead of cluttering up the case. Nice review at Computer Base. Too bad there isn't an inexpensive CM version of the E10 400.

The rest looks good.
alrighty. I'll have a last look over the CPU's before I order the parts.

_______
Abula wrote:The TJ08-E is a great case, but the AP181 that comes included its a big fan, and its not quiet unless you are able to drop it below 500rpms, and its not that easy, motherboards like Asus with FanXpert2 can, in my personal experience i was able to drop it to around 440rpms with the fan switch to low and running the Asus FanXpert2 tuning, still its not dead silent, as the frontal mesh does add some wosh to it, but its pretty good combo, but i was able to tell the fan was on on very quiet nights, that said.... under standard circumstances i dont think you will, it really depends on your ambient noise.
daytime noise is around 30dB at the lowest in here, at least according to an iphone app.
Abula wrote: Im about to do a build for a friend.... maybe in a month or two, probably will use a TJ08-E, but i know he is not a silence freek like me, and he will be overclocking, so i feel better with the TJ08-E and the ability to push vast amount of air if he requires it, personally if i were to build again on the TJ08-E i would probably get a AP182 that allows even lower rpms than the AP181. You can see links on my GameMi build on my sig if you want to check more about both ap181/182 and how different motherboards can control them.
Well, let me know how it goes :P Oh yes, that is gonna be very helpful, especially taming the A182.. I've repressed all the "assembly, setting up bios, etc" thoughts, because otherwise I'd probably never get started, but I'll have to figure those out eventually too.. ack >.<
Abula wrote: Just a last comment, the crucial you linked is not low profile, but standard profile, it should be fine, just its not the one that i use or recommend, Crucial Ballistix Sport Very Low Profile 8GB Kit (4GBx2) DDR3-1600 1.35V UDIMM 240-Pin Memory Modules BLS2C4G3D1609ES2LX0
alrighty, looks like I can get that one at a decent price in germany too.
If there's enough room, why go low profile though? Or is it more of a gut feeling?

__________
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:Is there a definition of bedroom quiet?

I would say it's when you're sleeping at night in the same room and anyone can't say whether the PC is running or not.
hm okay. That is nice, though the main problem isn't me using the PC while someone is trying to sleep, that doesn't happen too often. I just don't like gaming and the fans blowing like mad.. on the MBP it's like a constant little headache- not directly painful but stops you from enjoying yourself all the same. It gets to the 80s in here in summer, and I don't want the PC to sound like it's dying then. And even if he's not trying to sleep, I don't want to annoy my SO either, since he'll pretty much always be in the same room.
quest_for_silence wrote: If your apartment is an open space with a fridge running inside, you might not need "a bedroom quiet rig", I think that you shouldn't be able to hear it over the fridge at night.
wait wait- no, I do have some dignity. But the door to the kitchen is usually open, and in a 390square foot apartment, nothing is very far away.
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:RAM:
I found this: Crucial 2x4GB DDR-1600, 240 pin, CL 9
for €60. Maybe I effed something up as that seems too cheap somehow.

Yes, it's comparatively cheaper than average (70-75), but that's good as long you don't need a low profile RAM.
haven't seen anything to indicate that I'd need that.. though this one from ealier is low profile and also pretty affordable.
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:As for it not being modular, I only have a vague idea of what that means..but it says the cable length is 55 - 115 cm (45") which sounds like it should be enough, no?

Yes, it sounds fine to me also.

:mrgreen:
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:CPU:
So, I saw a affordable tray version of the i5 4590 at caseking, it's not the 4690 you put on the build, steve, but it would still be just fine, I hope?

IMHO you won't notice any practical difference in real life scenarios, even better, IMVHO you shouldn't be able to notice any useability difference with the cheaper 4440 also.
As already said by Steve, the tray CPUs have a 1-years limited warranty (even in EU).
Ah good, I thought the same thing (about not really being able to tell the difference between 4690 and 4590.
And here I was thinking the EU always had 2 year warranties. But it's a risk I'm willing to take, though I see now that the i5 4590 boxed is also available at a low price, so it'll depend on the available deals at time of ordering.
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:GPU:
picked the MSI because it was a bit cheaper than the Asus.

I won't mind about that difference: the Strix is a slightly better card (it runs sligthly cooler, with averagely better stock clocks, and it sports a backplate) so in case those 5 euros more are well worth, but all in all they are perfectly comparable options.

IMHO it's more important that you will buy from a seller who won't put any object to any noise-related RMA request (like Amazon does, but please take note that I don't know how Alternate.de compares to), because graphic cards sometimes may whine.
good point, I'll try to find that out for wherever I order from. Ah, I might have to swallow my words again because I just saw the Strix (STRIX-GTX960-DC2OC-2GD5) around for €219 too.
quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:though maybe I could still get a nicer motherboard, or some more case fans?

If I were you, I would assemble the rig and just then I'd evaluate whether you need different fans, or not, while about the mobo, a better one (like an ASUS H97M-Plus or better) mainly should be more reliable, if you care about (personally I won't care about, if you upgrade your PC every 2-3 years).
hm, I don't know yet, but the Asus H97M-Plus Micro-ATX is only €5 more expensive than the ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 I had in the pcparts list so that might be a no brainer then.


________
Mats wrote:geizhals gives you more options, although I have a feeling that you want less options... :D

A 180 mm fan is so overkill for your system.
Good link, yes, I use geizhals too, though often it brings up resellers that just sound a bit iffy, in the style of "megasavingsxxx.de" or so. As for it being overkill.. isn't overkill required when trying to make a quiet pc? I'm sure it'd be able to cool a much hotter setup, but then it wouldn't be as quiet anymore.. I'm all ears if you have a different case recommendation though =P It just needs to have 160mm clearance for the cpu cooler..


________

Once again, thank you all so much! ...and sorry for the delay! :oops:

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Mats » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:14 am

Hex wrote: Good link, yes, I use geizhals too, though often it brings up resellers that just sound a bit iffy, in the style of "megasavingsxxx.de" or so.
I follow the customer reviews at geizhals, of course. :) The closer to 1 the better.
Hex wrote:As for it being overkill.. isn't overkill required when trying to make a quiet pc? I'm sure it'd be able to cool a much hotter setup, but then it wouldn't be as quiet anymore.. I'm all ears if you have a different case recommendation though =P It just needs to have 160mm clearance for the cpu cooler..
Just look at the system reviews here at SPCR, how many of them has a 180 mm fan?
For instance, SPCR measured 17 dBA from 1 m distance on a high end GTX 980 system when at full load despite having no 180 mm fans.

If 180 mm fans were superior, SPCR reviewers would be recommending them. Besides, no one in this thread recommends it AFAIK.

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:59 am

Mats wrote:I follow the customer reviews at geizhals, of course. :) The closer to 1 the better.
yeah, that's true. I'm an odd mixture so I'm actually not culturally that german, so the 1 being the best grade is counterintutive to me :P
Mats wrote: Just look at the system reviews here at SPCR, how many of them has a 180 mm fan?
For instance, SPCR measured 17 dBA from 1 meters distance on a high end GTX 980 system.

If 180 mm fans were superior, SPCR would be recommending them.
hmm.. it does also though. The TJ08-E with the 180mm stock fan got an editors choice award here, it even says: "The key to its success is the massive 18 cm Air Penetrator intake fan"
and in the review of the PS07 (the budget version of the TJ08) it says "It's impossible to talk about the SilverStone Precision PS07 without comparing it to the Temjin TJ08-E. The Temjin is superior in both thermal and acoustic performance thanks to its larger, better sounding stock fan, and its more direct intake vent"

I'm not trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it though, but that makes me think it's not the size of the fan but how it's used :wink:

which noise stat can I use to compare the high end R5 GTX 980 system to the Silverstone TJ08-E? I can't seem to find equivalent noise recordings for the R5 that would let me do a fair comparison.

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Mats » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:16 am

Hex wrote: hmm.. it does also though. The TJ08-E with the 180mm stock fan got an editors choice award
Did you even look at the numbers?

That review is 3.5 years old, and they think 25 dBA is okay. Compare that to 17 dBA on the GTX 980 system.

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:22 am

Mats wrote:
Hex wrote: hmm.. it does also though. The TJ08-E with the 180mm stock fan got an editors choice award
Did you even look at the numbers?

That review is 3.5 years old, and they think 25 dBA is okay. Compare that to 17 dBA on the GTX 980 system.
I do, but how can I tell that they're under a comparable load? So the numbers are all a bit meaningless to me. Also, my pcparts list has the 182 fan which apparently can be set to lower speeds and is thus more quiet than the 181 stock fan.

Also, 17 is better than 25, sure, but how good is 25 to begin with? It's like comparing the top speed of cars and going "well.. 400 sounds way better than 300 kmh!" but not knowing that a car that can go 300 is already pretty damn fast, and before you buy the car you should probably know how fast you even need it to go, rather than just being drawn to the best number simply because it's the best number.. does that make sense..?

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Mats » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:27 am

I give up.

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:30 am

Mats wrote:I give up.
:?

ok.. I don't mean to be so stupid about it... but it doesn't seem unreasonable to take into account what I actually need and balance this with the size of the case also, rather than just getting the one that has the lowest dB without considering anything else.

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:51 am

Hex wrote:but how good is 25 to begin with?

Anything over 20dB is no good (quietness-wise), anything over 30dB is plainly loud.

However, as Mats wrote (he gave up), probably you are somehow fishing for arguments to justify your will to pick the TJE.

The R5 is noticeably quieter, period, but if you like the TJE, pick it up: all in all you won't ever know how much quieter the R5 could have been, will you? :wink:
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:48 am

I'm not going to wade into the deep water, but I did want to point out two things:

- relying upon a phone app for sound measurements is problematic. The self noise of the tiny tiny phone mic is probably 30dB(A) and who knows what the accuracy is over the measurement range. At best, you can use these apps to provide an A-B measurement like "hey, this new setup is 3dB quieter than the old setup". Don't believe any absolutes, though and remember that just holding the phone while measuring is going to induce enough noise to invalidate the measurement.

- Comparing case reviews...they all provide a components list...and they all provide baseline measurements so you can see the contribution of the case fans.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:05 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:but how good is 25 to begin with?

Anything over 20dB is no good (quietness-wise), anything over 30dB is plainly loud.
Okay, then the question becomes how quiet would my build be using the TJE, compared to the 25 recorded under the header "System Measurements: Load (Asus EAH6850 DirectCU)" that means nothing to me.. is that something I'd get during typical use?
quest_for_silence wrote:However, as Mats wrote (he gave up), probably you are somehow fishing for arguments to justify your will to pick the TJE.

The R5 is noticeably quieter, period, but if you like the TJE, pick it up: all in all you won't ever know how much quieter the R5 could have been, will you? ;wink:
I know the whole getting attached to a decision thing happens, and I am trying not to do that.. but I think those were legit questions. I'm aware the review of the TJE isn't the newest.. but that doesn't automatically make it bad, so I don't buy that argument, while fully agreeing that it also doesn't make it good, either. Having a 180mm fan doesn't make a case inherently louder (when set up right, as far as I've been informed here), so I don't buy that argument, while fully agreeing that it doesn't make it inherently quieter either... asking how loud it'll get during real use and not accepting the "180 fans are overkill and that review is old!" reasoning doesn't mean I'm stuck to the TJE like glue- in fact, back when I made the pcpartpicker list I also made a copy with the R5, I just didn't post it here since it's exactly the same except for the case. EDIT: I also don't doubt that the R5 would be quieter, but it's not a crime to consider the tradeoffs.

I was just looking at the Antec Solo II, at 40L volume it's a pretty small ATX case, and still significantly smaller than the R5's massive 54.5L volume, plus it's slightly cheaper, however.. it has 160mm room for cpu cooler, and that cooler needs 160mm. Does that mean it fits and will work alright, or does that mean it's too tight to call?

Also the Cooler Master Silencio 550, which is significantly cheaper at around €70.. And in case you think I'm just going through the recommended list here.. that one was actually recommended by a friend who said it was super quiet even while gaming, and dust free after they opened it after 2 years. I didn't even see it was on the list until now.
However, that one has 154mm for the CPU cooler, which means I'd have to find another cpu cooler... :/


_____
CA_Steve wrote:I'm not going to wade into the deep water, but I did want to point out two things:

- relying upon a phone app for sound measurements is problematic. The self noise of the tiny tiny phone mic is probably 30dB(A) and who knows what the accuracy is over the measurement range. At best, you can use these apps to provide an A-B measurement like "hey, this new setup is 3dB quieter than the old setup". Don't believe any absolutes, though and remember that just holding the phone while measuring is going to induce enough noise to invalidate the measurement.
Hm yes, that's why I mentioned it was from the phone, but maybe it gives a rough idea anyway, and a way to compare, as you point out.
CA_Steve wrote: - Comparing case reviews...they all provide a components list...and they all provide baseline measurements so you can see the contribution of the case fans.
ah ok.. yes, I see the baseline measurements, on page 3 of the R5 ATX gamer article, but.. I'm afraid I still don't know how to compare them fairly to the measurements here.. :( not to mention that that's the 181, not the 182 fan..

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Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:50 pm

Hex wrote:balance this with the size of the case also, rather than just getting the one that has the lowest dB without considering anything else.
Maybe we're getting you wrong, maybe you're biased in favour of the TJ-08E.

Let's try an incorrect comparison, just for fun:

TJ-08E (Intel Core i5-750/HD6850): 20dB idle/25dB load
W1 (Intel Core i5-4690K/GTX-980): 13dB idle/20dB load

More probably that not with a GTX-960 the TJ-08E would perform noticeably quieter than in SPCR test, but maybe not by that much.

Said that, as I already adviced, if you like the TJ-08E, pick it up: personally I would never look at my rig and think: "I'd rather you look different". :wink:
Regards,
Luca

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Hex
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:40 am

Re: Help with 1080p gaming PC shopping list

Post by Hex » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:03 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
Hex wrote:balance this with the size of the case also, rather than just getting the one that has the lowest dB without considering anything else.
Maybe we're getting you wrong, maybe you're biased in favour of the TJ-08E.

Let's try an incorrect comparison, just for fun:

TJ-08E (Intel Core i5-750/HD6850): 20dB idle/25dB load
W1 (Intel Core i5-4690K/GTX-980): 13dB idle/20dB load

More probably that not with a GTX-960 the TJ-08E would perform noticeably quieter than in SPCR test, but maybe not by that much.

Said that, as I already adviced, if you like the TJ-08E, pick it up: personally I would never look at my rig and think: "I'd rather you look different". :wink:
It's not that I want it and am looking for a seal of approval here.. it's that I am spectacularly indecisive, especially when juggling vague notions that are hard to quantify, like "well it'll probably be more quiet with my set up.." and "the cooler master is cheaper and not quite as big the r5, and it's dampened, and my friend loves hers, but the cpu cooler doesn't fit.. but maybe that is cancelled out due to the dampening?" it's comparing a bunch of factors that I have no reference point for in real life, and then comparing noise tolerance levels in the first place. urg.

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