1080p gaming, completely passive?

[y7HGqN5Q]

OK, so I've got it in my head that I want to play Age of Conan at 1920x1080 on high settings, but do it with an entirely noise-free PC. After many months of dreaming, I finally see this Palit "GeForce GTX 750 Ti KalmX" fanless graphics card, and think maybe it's possible to pair it with the Seasonic "SS-400FL2" fanless power supply, add a fanless motherboard and CPU, then mount everything on an open frame (or a tube for stack effect) for maximum passive airflow -- all without burning my house down. Unfortunately, that's as far as I got before becoming confused by the myriad options for motherboards. I've yet to find one that's tiny, legacy-free, and fanless, without it also having onboard graphics, the wrong PCI slots, old USB, etc.

I would like to hear your opinions on whether the combination I've listed thus far is reasonable, and if so, what remaining parts might fit the bill for the minimal, passively-cooled, extremely-low-budget, GNU/Linux-based system I hope to assemble. The Palit card is PCI-E 3.0 and recommends a 300 Watt system. The Seasonic power supply is 400 Watts.

Also, I'm not averse to buying from the SPCR used parts thread, just that I'm no longer sure which features mean what anymore!

[CA_Steve]

Have they upgraded the game since it released in 2008? Back then, a GTX 9800/Q6600 could get close to 30fps with max quality. So, any Haswell CPU + a GTX 750 Ti should kill it.

You might find this thread useful.

Palit GTX 750 Ti KalmX 2GB - Passive card
Techpowerup - card reaches 83C in test, where Nvidia starts to reduce Boost clocking...so, may require directed air for max performance. YMMV.
Kitguru - card reaches 56C gaming and 64C in Furmark in a well ventilated case with water cooled CPU.
Computer Base - worth reading for thermal analysis
Guru3D - 80C load temp; 55C with ventilation

You are probably better off with some direct airflow in the case. A slow moving fan can be inaudible.

[y7HGqN5Q]

Thanks for the link! I can't believe I didn't find that thread. Perhaps in my haste to register on the forum and compose my question, I forgot to actually search for "KalmX"...

Edit: Another oops... I assumed that was a list of compatible parts. Silly me for posting before reading thoroughly. (Probably why I can't figure out motherboards, too.) Yes, I've seen numerous reviews on the KalmX, but no idea what motherboard I should run it on. Knowing that a Haswell-type processor is sufficient, though, certainly helps to narrow my list. Thank you.

[CA_Steve]

I don't track Linux, so I don't know which brands of mobo's provide better support than others. Perhaps some linux-heads will speak up...or you could check out PHoronix.com and see what's liked over there. If the goal was a cheap Windows system, and if the toughest thing you'd run on it was the above game, then I'd get something like this.
-Pentium is unlocked, so you could overclock if you want to.
-mobo is a good fit for the CPU and Asrock has great URFI based fan control.
-cooler is exceptional and the fan is silent at your CPU's load.
-250GB class SSD is the sweet spot for price and performance. Crucial MX100 is an alternative, but I like Samsung's s/w toolkit.
- Corsair PSU is a hybrid design. The fan won't spin at loads less than 30% or so. This build will use ~130W in heavy gaming...so the fan might turn on at all. You could also go with the more expensive Seasonic.
- if you opt for some kinda open frame build, you could try it as is. The Kotetsu might work well passively with the Pentium at stock speed. I doubt you'd hear it spinning at it's minimum rpm. The KalmX card should be fine passively...if not, you could strap on a very low rpm/silent fan there as well.

[y7HGqN5Q]

That "PC Part Picker" site certainly is useful. I'm glad you mentioned it. I've been trying out various combinations, and have decided that legacy components are an acceptable tradeoff for lower price.

Something I just found today is a comment on another site by a customer who bought the KalmX, saying that his passive HTPC emits an electrical whine when the card is plugged in. (When I listen, I hear every little buzz and chirp passed along through my analog-connected speaker system, from Wi-Fi dongle to SD reader to HDD to mouse laser. That might be poorly-isolated components in my Shuttle XS35GTV2, but I definitely want my next fanless PC to be perfect. I've returned HDTVs because they made too much noise on mute. So any noise what-so-ever coming from a purportedly-silent part is definitely going to be a deal-breaker.)

Has anyone else heard of this whining phenomenon with the KalmX?

[CA_Steve]

That might be poorly-isolated components in my Shuttle XS35GTV2...

Probably

[y7HGqN5Q]

Here is my attempt at using PC Part Picker, and why I chose the options I did...

• http://pcpartpicker.com/p/CYL4hM

I started by selecting a fanless CPU cooler, because that always seemed to be the expensive hang-up when choosing other parts first. This way, my options are automatically limited to processors and motherboards that will work with the more modest cooler.

• Zalman FX70 Fanless CPU Cooler -- $35 after rebate

The motherboard came next, and though it's about double what I wanted to pay, it seems to have a full list of features, plus compatibility with the latest sockets and controllers, which should allow it to remain the base of my system for years to come. Unfortunately, there is one issue than concerns me: PCI-E 2.0 instead of 3.0 -- is this bad?

• ASRock 970 Performance ATX AM3+ Motherboard -- $90 after rebate

Next came the processor, where I tried to avoid breaking the bank. The cheapest options gave me a choice between low price and low wattage. Assuming the fanless cooler will be sufficient, I've opted for the savings. (I need guidance on this one.)

• AMD FX-4200 3.3GHz Quad-Core OEM/Tray Processor -- $60

For memory, I just threw in the cheapest 8 GB unit I could find.

• Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory -- $52

For storage I want an SSD, but not knowing what's what, I picked the cheapest per GB.

• OCZ ARC 100 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive -- $80 after rebate

This fanless video card is what inspired the build in the first place.

• Palit GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB KalmX Video Card -- price unknown

And to finish things off, a fanless power supply.

• SeaSonic Platinum 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular Fanless ATX Power Supply -- $107 after rebate

I might add a case, adapt something from twenty years ago, or just hang everything on the wall. I haven't decided yet. All told, I expect the price to be just over $600, though there may be some significant shipping trying to get the KalmX from overseas.

As I indicated above, I don't know if the passive cooler will be enough to handle the heat from the CPU, and I'm concerned about the PCI-E version being insufficient for the video card. There may be other incongruities, but I haven't spotted them.

[Vicotnik]

AMD is behind Intel when it comes to efficiency. As far as I know the only advantage AMD really has is better integrated graphics, but you will not be using that. I would go with Haswell, like already mentioned.

Two sticks of memory will make use of dual channel, so 2x4GB would be be better than 1x8GB.

Probably not an ideal SSD, but I'm not qualified to recommend another model.

[CA_Steve]

I think the only item I'd purchase on your list is the PSU.

The AMD platform is old and has inferior performance in game fps compared to the same priced Intel CPU. +1 on Viconik's comments. The ARC 100 SSD has one thing going for it - it's cheap...ok, and faster than a HDD...

[quest_for_silence]

I think the only item I'd purchase on your list is the PSU.

I disagree Steve, probably the only item I would not purchase is the PSU: on a close to ears open bench, those fanless Seasonics are IMO/IME really disappointing (I would say "atrocious").
NewEgg has the last SilentNight PSUs on offer at 80 USD, a much better value, a much quieter unit.

The ARC 100 SSD has one thing going for it - it's cheap...ok, and faster than a HDD...

Again, I disagree: IMVHO is one of the top three low cost SSDs right now (but, to the OP, don't count on their rebates, several people fail to got them).

• Zalman FX70 Fanless CPU Cooler -- $35 after rebate

Nice cooler, but I wouldn't bet it can run fanless with hot CPUs (even if it deserves a chance).

The motherboard came next, and though it's about double what I wanted to pay

Well, that's what maybe I would think to, if I were you:

• http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-m ... a78lmtusb3
• http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-fd6300wmhkbox

But, said that, Intel efficiency advantage is huge, so a Core i5 with an ASRock H97M PRO4 would be a way better pick, despite the higher cost.

PCI-E 2.0 instead of 3.0 -- is this bad?

No.

For memory, I just threw in the cheapest 8 GB unit I could find.

• Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory -- $52

As already said by others, it's not that smart move: 2 x 4Gb is most of times a probably better option.
From the same brand, something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820313426, but there's plenty of options.

I might add a case, adapt something from twenty years ago, or just hang everything on the wall. I haven't decided yet.

Particularly if you will use the Seasonic, a case with a good airflow (and good fans, so) it's strongly recommended.
Otherwise, if you can afford, look for a precious looking Banchetto 103, or a more practical Banchetto K (I don't think pcpartspicker may help on those, as on most specialties).

[CA_Steve]

I guess I'm leery of OCZ for their past / high failure rates. I'm sure Toshiba's ownership will change this, but it's too early for me to decide. (says the guy with a Samsung 840 Evo ).

[y7HGqN5Q]

I'm starting to get the impression that "fanless" has become one of those weasel-words, like "organic", that manufacturers put on packaging in order to cash in on all the lemmings who don't do their homework.

Back to the drawing board, then. I'll try restricting the options to Intel-based processors, though doing so will cost me half the cores just to stay in the same price range.

[CA_Steve]

I'm starting to get the impression that "fanless" has become one of those weasel-words, like "organic", that manufacturers put on packaging in order to cash in on all the lemmings who don't do their homework.

Hey - my PC is made of completely organic materials...except for all of the parts that aren't.

Back to the drawing board, then. I'll try restricting the options to Intel-based processors, though doing so will cost me half the cores just to stay in the same price range.

Time for some more education, then. A good first step is to compare CPUs at Anandtech's Bench. Here's the FX 4300 vs Pentium G3258. The 4300 has a 3.8GHz base clock vs the 4200's 3.3GHz. The 4200 is priced about the same as the Pentium.

[Vicotnik]

I'm starting to get the impression that "fanless" has become one of those weasel-words, like "organic", that manufacturers put on packaging in order to cash in on all the lemmings who don't do their homework.

Back to the drawing board, then. I'll try restricting the options to Intel-based processors, though doing so will cost me half the cores just to stay in the same price range.

You can add "quad" to "fanless" and "organic".

[quest_for_silence]

Back to the drawing board, then. I'll try restricting the options to Intel-based processors, though doing so will cost me half the cores just to stay in the same price range.

Maybe the real misunderstanding is that too often you think to can run fanless heatsinks (CPU, GPU, PSU) without airflow (case fans).

What SPCR teached us is that nowadays the only heatsinks able to run fanless a CPU are the NoFan ones, the CR95 and the CR80: you need to pick one of those. Do you need them? Actually no, IMO, inside an enclosure (the most practical way to have an airflow) an heatsink with a fan spinning at 5-600rpm at most is virtually indistinguishable from the NoFan ones. The FZ70 you picked up is a good candidate, you just need to pick a good PWM fan for it (IMO), with an Intel Pentium you may also think to try to run it fanless at first (just to see how it performs, actually). By the way, there's plenty of options (don't forget to give a look to the SPCR recommended list, and to the relevant reviews too).

WIth reference to the GPU, the GTX 750Ti is quite able to run fanless, thanks to its remarkably low TDP (60W), and enough powerful to run many games at FHD resolution.
You may pick either a KalmX, or strap an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus on any fanned unit.

Eventually, with reference to the PSU, pick one of those last Rosewill SilentNight 500 at 80-90 USD, as it is an extraordinary performer at a steal pricing.
Alternatively, pick a PSU with a low spinning fan (BeQuiet E10, Platimax 500, a few others of noticeable less quality, like the Cooler Master G450M or the Corsair CS-450M, but still enough quiet).

Said that, you now need a comfortable case (an InWin Dragon Slayer is a good candidate to run fanless heatsinks, as seen on SPCR), and at least one case fan (but it's better to have two, like a pair of those ones, talking of the cheapest fans, or some classics like AC F12, Nexus Basic, and so on), to hook up to a mobo with a good UEFI support, like an ASRock Pro4 (it should be the cheapest), and then run all the fans conveniently low (I mean, 200-400rpm for the case fans, 300-500rpm for the CPU fan).

I guess that's all, or so about.

[y7HGqN5Q]

I know the recommendations have been to get a slow fan, but I'm stubborn. Please bear with me as I attempt to squeeze around that elephant in the room.

• http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fkzFMp

Supposedly the Zallman FX70 can handle up to 80 Watts without a fan, but that might be with the assumption that there's a case fan going. The least power that can be had for around $50 seems to be 53 or 54 Watts in a Celeron or Pentium. Maybe things have changed, but I remember Celerons as being ridiculed and avoided for any but the lightest computing.

AnandTech Bench really helped me to see how much better almost any current processor is when compared with my ION2, so I've chosen the cheapest Pentium. Apparently there are significant performance improvements that aren't described solely with GHz and cores.

• Zalman FX70 Fanless CPU Cooler -- $35 after rebate
  Intel Pentium G3250 3.2GHz Dual-Core OEM/Tray Processor -- $76

For about ten bucks more than the bottom of the list, I can get both PCI 3 and USB 3 on the motherboard. The downside is that it's still only 3 GB/s SATA, compared to the 6 usable by the SSD. For another $26, I could upgrade. Is it really necessary?

• Gigabyte GA-H61M-USB3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard -- $44
  or Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard -- $70

With only two memory slots and probably no need for more than 8 GB, I've taken the advice of getting two 4GB ones.

• Mushkin Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory -- $55 after promo ($60 later)

Limiting the list to $50 or less, this SSD is the best price per GB. Unfortunately, the pretty hummingbird logo doesn't seem to be on this one.

• A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive -- $50

Fanless power supplies start at $80. With people saying they aren't actually silent, I'll have to read up on the topic.

As for the KalmX video card, it's still at the top of my list. I've not yet read anything else about it making a whining noise, so perhaps that was just a fluke. I am considering buying the KalmX for SPCR to test.

Concerning UEFI: At best, it's complications are something I've been hoping to ignore, just so I can get a nice system put together. The potential for its abuse, however, -- more like a certainty, really -- is something that turns my stomach. Its presence alone might very well send me back to the drawing board once again.

[quest_for_silence]

I know the recommendations have been to get a slow fan, but I'm stubborn. Please bear with me as I attempt to squeeze around that elephant in the room.

• http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fkzFMp

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/vFrY7P

• Gigabyte GA-H61M-USB3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard -- $44
  or Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard -- $70

Those are LGA1155 mobos, the G3258 is an LGA1150 CPU: they don't match. Moreover they are outdated, with a bad UEFI interface, with a crippled business-oriented chipset and less efficient.
You may look at Gigabyte just for an AMD platform, as they have more options than other vendors.

Concerning UEFI: At best, it's complications are something I've been hoping to ignore, just so I can get a nice system put together. The potential for its abuse, however, -- more like a certainty, really -- is something that turns my stomach. Its presence alone might very well send me back to the drawing board once again.

The UEFI (as you run on Linux) is the only easy way to quietly control any fan (you will/may need), therefore it has to be powerful and versatile: so either ASRock H87 (1155) / H97 (1150) mobos, or ASUS H97 (1150) ones, nothing else.

[Silencer56]

This will be a very complicated build.

1. You need a NoFan heatsink. No discussion, these are the only ones capable of running a CPU passive.
2. You will need to use a passive GPU, limiting your graphics power, but that might work with an old game.
3. Passive PSUs are luckily available, but you might run into electronic noise issues when your system is completely silent
4. You need a case with an open top for optimum stack effect and silenced sides to filter out high pitch coil whine (yes, you will need to clean it often)

Based on how much heat can be handled that way, you can use only low power components (Haswell T-series Celeron, Pentium or i3). You could also think about replacing the stock heatspreader of your passive GPU with a better aftermarket one like the Morpheus (if it fits).

At full cost of a regular fan cooled or even semi passive silent build, the performance will be slightly better than a notebook with integrated graphics. If that's worth it for you, go for it.

PS: You should think about the fact that a normal silent room has a SPL of 30dbA, adding a 20dbA slow fan PC will result in a total noise of 30.413 dbA. You will basically hear no difference between a passive system and a slow fan cooled one.