Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

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batou069
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Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by batou069 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:14 pm

Hello SPCR community

I want to build a PC that will sit in the living room for A/V use under my TV, using a USB DAC, Stereo amplifier and of course speakers.
I started already a thread over in The Silent Front Forum, where we discussed Silent PC Vs. Passively cooled PCs. I came to the conclusion to ditch the idea of using a Streacom FC10 Case in favor of a Silent PC design, using fans.

The components I already have:

Mainboard: Asus Z97-A (ATX)
CPU: Intel i7-4790k
RAM: 4x8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3-1600
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB

I might also buy the SOtM tX-USBexp and SATA filter, although I'm not quiet convinced if it really might help getting better sound from the SSD through the USB to the DAC.

What I'm missing is a PSU, a case and cooling.
I won't be using a GPU since I won't play games from the couch, but I might consider it (my components surely allow it) :)
If playing MKV's or other Full HD Videos require a GPU, please let me know. For almost 10 years I'm using a laptop only, so I'm quiet out of business regarding big PC hardware.

Case
The most important issue for me is the case. Since it will sit in the living room, and I don't live by myself, it has to have a Wife Acceptance Factor. She is a designer and very very sensitive to "machines", so this makes the choice even harder....same goes for speakers, it's just not easy :)

I was in the beginning looking at something like the Streacom FC10, it is very appealing, but since I ditched the idea of a fan-less system, this case became obsolete. They have another model, the F12C, but since I'm ditching the fan-less idea, I'm open for other cases/designs/concepts. I't would be nice to find a silent silver or white box, not black or gunmetal. So a sleek, silent and stylish PC that looks like an Audio Component, or a small lower tower that, well, doesnt look like an oldschool big machine lol

I read the R5 Article on this site and really liked how cases developed until today, although I wouldn't consider it an eye catcher.

PSU
I don't really understand much about PSUs, or how much power I would need. This certainly changes drastically if I would choose to use a GPU.
I saw some fan-less PSUs over here and on other sites, but if the case absorbs enough noise this might become unnecessary also.

Cooling
Well, since I'm ditching the complete fan-less design idea, I guess I could use some big heat-sink/fan combination. Would it make sense to use a heat-sink only? Or to have the fans only to work when they are needed? I'm open for advice

optional: GPU
open for advise


Thanks

Edit: I just realized that HDplex just released a new case, the H5 2nd Gen, that supports a CPU up to 90W TDP, and my i7 has 88W. The fan-less ideas rise up again ;)

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:26 pm

You know, you can go with the Streacom or HDplex cases. The CPU will never see more than 20-30W if all you are doing is streaming audio and watching videos. If you plan to stress the CPU a bit with transcoding or something, then, yeah go with the higher TDP capable case.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Cistron
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by Cistron » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:02 am

If all you want to do, is stream audio, then I'd question the i7 concept. Maybe a passive NUC is the more suitable (and probably cheaper) alternative?

I'm not sure whether these filters add anything to your audio quality. In particular the SATA filter seems like a load of pixie dust. If you want to isolate your DAC, going the optical SPDIF way might be better.


edit: just saw in the other thread that that's the hardware you have.

edit2: with ATX you are limited to relatively large towers. One Hifi like case that springs to mind is the Antec Fusion Max. But (a) I'm not sure whether it is still manufactured and (b) it ain't small either. Certainly wider than the 43cm of most audio equipment.

edit3: check out Silverstone's Grandia series - some are ATX and usually they come in silver as well: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product_c ... =3&area=en

batou069
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by batou069 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:30 am

Hi and thanks for all the responses.

I will do more then just stream audio or video.
It will be my media center, decoding high resolution PCM and DSD files, upsampling to DSD or downsampling, whatever is needed. Sure I will also use some Tidal streaming in between, but most of my music are heavy files from 24bit/96khz upwards to high Res DSD.

Video files will be also Full HD and in the background it will download stuff.

Download center, Media Center, Movie and TV Show watching, youtubing, and maybe even add a GPU for occasional gaming.

Question: Right now while using the same DAC on my Laptop ( Dell Lattitude E7450, i7-5600U @ 2.6GHz, 8GB Ram) by USB, I encounter dropouts of sound every several minutes. It is just the absence of sound for a second and then it comes back. The DAC driver has several USB and buffer settings, buffer is set to highest and USB Streaming mode to safe. There are 7 streaming modes, from Extra Safe to low Latency, im using no 6 for now. Using no 1 would result in much more drop outs, almost every 3-10 seconds, depends on the music played.

What should I pay attention to in my build, in order to make these drop outs disappear on my future build in mode no1. Its supposed to be the best sounding one.
Thanks

Pappnaas
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by Pappnaas » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:19 am

batou069 wrote:Question: Right now while using the same DAC on my Laptop ( Dell Lattitude E7450, i7-5600U @ 2.6GHz, 8GB Ram) by USB, I encounter dropouts of sound every several minutes. It is just the absence of sound for a second and then it comes back. The DAC driver has several USB and buffer settings, buffer is set to highest and USB Streaming mode to safe. There are 7 streaming modes, from Extra Safe to low Latency, im using no 6 for now. Using no 1 would result in much more drop outs, almost every 3-10 seconds, depends on the music played.

What should I pay attention to in my build, in order to make these drop outs disappear on my future build in mode no1. Its supposed to be the best sounding one.
Thanks
Sounds like a software issue to me. So it may be a tedious process to eliminate the problem. You could start with a fresh OS-Install and add drivers and DAC only, no AV, no other software except the basics. If the problem is gone, then install other stuff and re-check.

Did you check energy saving options in your OS?

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:21 pm

multi-use system - got it.

Case: "under the TV"...as in the TV sits on the case or the case is on a media furniture shelf / inside a cabinet? (huuuge question regarding airflow and thermals). If the case will be in an enclosed space, detailing the dimensions will help us with selection.

DAC on laptop: Is the one second absence of sound as if the volume is muted or as if the stream is paused? Have you run a utility like Latencymon to see if other processes are hogs?

SOtM products: I think of building/tuning a PC as an iterative process. Start with a solid baseline, then add/tweak as needed. Relative merits of the SOtM stuff aside, try building without them and see if your audio is noise/hum/interference free. If not, then you can take additional steps.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

batou069
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by batou069 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:26 am

Thanks for the replies,

Using in the meanwhile the Work Laptop with the DAC so I cant do a fresh install :)
Power Plan is on High Performance.

@CA_Steve, thanks for the help will check the program.
The TV wont sit on the PC
I decided to go with a tower like (or most likely) the Fractal Design R5, and use it as HTPC until I gather new hardware and case to build a low power HTPC that I can cool passively. In the meantime, this build will hold as HTPC and main PC (using from the couch lol)

So now the huge question: PSU, CPU Cooling and GPU. I have everything to build a Ferrari PC, so I want to do it. PSU depends strongly on if I will use a GPU, for HTPC I won't need one, but I decided to buy a GPU so that I can play sometimes some games.

I still want a silent build, so maybe a passively cooled GPU, fanless PSU or a PSU where the fans shuts down when not much needed, will be a good idea. Some ideas?

There is someBottleneck article on Toms Hardware and my Chip is

Tier 1:

CPU: i7 4790K / i7 4770K / i7 4790 / i7 4770 / [All Other i7 Extreme] / i5 6600K
GPU: [All GTX Titan Lineups] / GTX 980ti / GTX 980 / GTX 970 / GTX 960 / GTX 780ti / GTX 780 / Fury X / R9 Fury / R9 390X / R9 390 / R9 380 / R9 290 / R9 290X / R9 295x2

If I understand the article right, these are the recommended GPUs for my CPU, right?
What are your recommendations?

Thanks

quest_for_silence
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:12 pm

batou069 wrote:So now the huge question: PSU, CPU Cooling and GPU.

A PSU recommendation mostly depends of your location (local availability does matter): about CPU Cooling, here there's SPCR latest chart.

batou069 wrote:If I understand the article right, these are the recommended GPUs for my CPU, right?

That's just a pile of bullshits: whether you're looking for serious and reliable information, avoid THG tutorials/guides/forum posts like the plague.

batou069 wrote:What are your recommendations?

One of the latest SPCR favourite, ASUS Strix GTX 960 is a good possible all around candidate (though probably expensive, for the so called "casual" gamer).
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:57 pm

For 1080p resolution gaming,
- the GTX 960 is great. As Luca pointed out, the Asus Strix version is passive until you start 3D gaming or other apps that make heavy use of the GPU.
- A step down in price and fps is the GTX 750 Ti. There is a passive version (Palit KalmX), but it will require decent airflow through the R5 case for good temps (a second input fan).
- Nvidia is introducing the GTX 950 later this month - supposedly on the 17th. Rumors have it's performance somewhere between the above two cards. Might want to wait a week and see how it benchmarks for the games you play vs the others.

PSU: A decent rule of thumb is to add CPU TDP + GPU TDP + ~50W for motherboard and everything else to estimate your stressed power load. Then figure 85% of that for heavy gaming or other load that makes use high of the GPU. If you go with the GTX 960, it'd be 88W + 120W + 50W = ~260W stress load, call it 250W for your 1 SSD system. Heavy gaming load of ~215W. So, you want a PSU that's inaudible at 215W.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

batou069
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by batou069 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:16 am

Hey CA_Steve,
thanks for the answers, makes sense. I think that I'll go with a GTX970 at least, the 960 isn't enough future-proof, as far as I see it. Anything knows about noise issues with GX970 and above, any recommendation? Although the 960 might just be enough, it's just that the price difference may be smaller then the performance difference.

Now to the PSU, here I'm a little bit limited, here the list (not inserted above 850W) of what I can get from the shop that I will buy the case from, and they will put my PC together:
The only passive one is the Seasonic X-460FL, it's a bit expensive for its performance I guess, and if I choose to buy a higher end GPU it might not be enough...

Other brands include:
Antec
Corsair
In Win




Seasonic:

SeaSonic X-400FL 400W Bulk
Seasonic SS-500BT ECO 500W
Seasonic X-460FL 460W
Seasonic X-850 850W
Seasonic SS-400BT ECO 400W
SeaSonic S12G-450 450W SSR-450RT
Seasonic S12G-650 650W Active PFC 80+ Gold
Seasonic X-650 650W Modular
SeaSonic SS-500ET Retail
SeaSonic P-660 660W
SeaSonic M12II-620 bulk
Seasonic 350W SS-350ET
SeaSonic SS-400ET

PSUs I can buy from other stores:

Coolermaster:

Coolermaster G500 500W
Coolermaster G500 500W
Coolermaster G650M 650W modular
Coolermaster G650M 650W modular
Coolermaster G750M 750W modular
Coolermaster G750M 750W modular
CoolerMaster Thunder 600W
CoolerMaster Thunder 600W
CoolerMaster Thunder 620M 620W
CoolerMaster Thunder 620M 620W
Coolermaster V550S 550W
Coolermaster V550S 550W
CoolerMaster V750 750W
CoolerMaster V750 750W
Coolermaster V850 850W
Coolermaster V850 850W
Coolermaster G500 500W with Active PFC
Coolermaster G650M 650W half modular
Coolermaster G750M 750W RS750-AMAAB1-UK half modular
Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 1500W with Active PFC
CoolerMaster Thunder 620M 620W
CoolerMaster Thunder 600W RS600-ACABD3
CoolerMaster V750 750W RS750-AMAAG1-UK
Coolermaster V850 850W with Active PFC

Thermal Take:

Thermaltake Smart SE 630W
Thermaltake Litepower 650W
Thermaltake Litepower 650W
Thermaltake Litepower 750W
Thermaltake Litepower 750W
Thermaltake Litepower LT-550P 550W
Thermaltake Litepower LT-550P 550W
Thermaltake Smart SE 630W
Thermaltake Smart SE 730W
Thermaltake Smart SE 730W
Thermaltake Smart SP-750M 750W
Thermaltake Smart SP-750M 750W
Thermaltake Smart SP-850M 850W
Thermaltake Smart SP-850M 850W
Thermaltake Toughpower 650W
Thermaltake Toughpower 650W
Thermaltake Toughpower 750W
Thermaltake Toughpower 750W
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 650W
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 650W
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 750W
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 750W
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 850W
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 850W
Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 650W
Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 650W
Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 750W
Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 750W
Thermaltake TR2 450W
Thermaltake TR2 450W
Thermaltake TR2 500W
Thermaltake TR2 500W
Thermaltake TR2 600W Gold 600W
Thermaltake TR2 600W Gold 600W
Thermaltake TR2 600W Gold 600W with Active PFC
Thermaltake TR2 700W Gold 700W
Thermaltake TR2 700W Gold 700W
Thermaltake TR2 TR-600P 600W
Thermaltake TR2 TR-600P 600W
Thermaltake Litepower LT-550P 550W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Litepower 650W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Litepower 750W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Smart SE 630W with Active PFC modular
Thermaltake Smart SE 730W with Active PFC modular
Thermaltake Smart SP-750M 750W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Smart SP-850M 850W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 650W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 750W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G 850W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 650W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 750W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower 650W with Active PFC
Thermaltake Toughpower 750W with Active PFC
Thermaltake TR2 450W with Active PFC
Thermaltake TR2 500W with Active PFC
Thermaltake TR2 600W with Active PFC


I don't care if there is a fan as long as it stays silent at medium use. Thanks for the help

quest_for_silence
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:52 am

batou069 wrote:Now to the PSU, here I'm a little bit limited...
Thanks for the help
I beg your pardon but direct weblinks might be much more useful than such a long, somewhat pointless list.
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg

batou069
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by batou069 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:43 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
batou069 wrote:Now to the PSU, here I'm a little bit limited...
Thanks for the help
I beg your pardon but direct weblinks might be much more useful than such a long, somewhat pointless list.
No problem, I just thought that hebrew webpages might be confusing :)

But here you go...

Here the PSU page from the shop I'm buying from:
http://1pc.co.il/cat-88-%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A7%D7%99_%D7%9B%D7%97.aspx

This is the PSU page of the importer, the 1pc shop is working with:
https://cd-log.co.il/catalog/HE/#p=category/10050

Here PSUs from 2 other shops:

https://www.ivory.co.il/power_suplly.html
http://ksp.co.il/?select=1108..140

Thanks

quest_for_silence
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:36 am

Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:09 am

To answer an earlier question, if you change out a GTX 960 for a 980, the stress load goes from ~250W to under 300W, so heavy gaming load goes from 215W to 250Wish.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

batou069
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by batou069 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:19 am

Thanks for the help. That means that even with a 400W PSU I can start using the onboard graphics, and if I want I can always add a new GPU without the need for upgrading the PSU. Great!

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent i4790k build, asus z-97a, low profile

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:34 am

Just be aware of
- what PCIe graphics (PEG) connectors the PSU has and what PEG connectors the Gfx card needs.
- if you go with a fanned PSU, be aware of the fan rpm profile vs load. Many can get noisy past 50% load.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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