Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

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trodas
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Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:41 am

I have a quick (yet tricky) question: what mainboard & coolers do you guys think, that will be good for me, when I want to build this:

- around 3.8 - 4GHz 4core (no HT for lower TDP) Intel machine with the Haswell-E core (22nm) for lowest TDP
- Win7 gaming only, at first GTX 960, later Nano
- PSU eVGA 850W Supernova G2 (good experience and ripple-free voltage & quiet operation - cannot heat it = good)
- 8G of nice fast DDR3 memory to get the power need
- M.2 SSD onboard
- VERY QUIET operation required

The aim is to build a QUIET gaming system. So I need a CPU, that could be cooled with unhearable from 1,5m cooling solution. Either hi-end Noctua (NH-C14S) or - if it will be more silent - some AIO cooling solution?
There is no other requirments. Just decent power and quier operation. That is all.

I probably ask some overclockers for second hand CPU, that is not a good clocker, BUT it can run on lowest voltage settings stable at the 3.,8 - 4GHz clock (turbo off - or all the time on at the max clock).

To save space and cables, M.2 SSD will be used for OS/need apps, for rest 1T WB Black. PSU is determined, case will be Phanteks Enthoo Pro white.

For the GTX 960 I would like a seriously overpowered heatsink (or AIO?), that let me install 2x Noiseblocker 120mm fans. I cannot hear them at 1000rpm in case, rest there case fans will be Noiseblockers 750rpm ones & the massive Phanteks Enthoo Pro intake fan. That it is. But dunno what GPU cooler is to choose from...?


Suggestions welcome.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:37 am

trodas wrote:what mainboard & coolers do you guys think, that will be good for me

If you are mixing both 3 pin fans and 4 pin PWM fans, ASRock and ASUS. If you will use PWM fans only, also MSI may worth.
About the CPU cooler, though the NH-C14S is an excellent cooler, the Scythe Ninja 4 (SCNJ 4000) is probably a better value (if priced accordingly to MSRP there), and the Scythe Kotetsu a cheaper alternative.
Eventually, about the AIOs, there are no real alternative to air cooling, quietness-wise: you may go for a custom loop, it will be expensive, at least four times a C14S, 6 times the Ninja 4, but you may use it to cool quietly the Nano adding a full cover block.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:37 am

I guess the bigger question is why you think you'll need 6 physical cores for gaming? Are there other tasks that will make use of Haswell-E, like video editing, 3D modeling, etc? Otherwise, you'd be much better off with an i5. Very few games make effective use of more than 4 physical cores.

Also, AMD Nano is an overpriced piece of marketing nonsense. Much better off waiting for the next gen cards to come out next year.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:02 am

CA_Steve wrote:I guess the bigger question is why you think you'll need 6 physical cores for gaming?

I thought he wrote 4 cores/4 threads, btw.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:16 am

Haswell-E only comes in 3 flavors, none are 4 core.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:43 am

So, no AIO is good for quiet operation? Pump too noisy? Not even with own fans...?

...

And the CPU, well, my bad. I was thinking about the 85W TDP ones, not these 140W monsters... :D

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:47 am

trodas wrote:So, no AIO is good for quiet operation? Pump too noisy? Not even with own fans...?

The integrated pump is an added source of noise, but it's also a matter of far higher impendance: with AIOs you can't have lower CPU temp (lower than high end air coolers) without two, three or four fans, and those have to deal with an high FPI radiator, and those radiators are slim, aluminium ones (not that efficient: radiators for effective watercooling are thicker and made of brass and copper).
As a matter of fact you can't have lower temp than with air with equal noise (go figure lower noise).
Noise-wise you can go watercooling, but with custom loops (low restriction waterblocks, low FPI radiators, more powerful pumps, and so on), not AIOs, and you have to cool both CPU and GPU to make it efficent: that way you can cool the whole rig quieter than by air (GPU air cooling is way more noisy than CPU one).
You may have some maybe amusing reading about on specialized websites, like extremerigs.net , if you mind.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by nster » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:08 pm

Technically there are 4-core Xeon Haswell-E processors you can use on X99 boards, but for the clockspeed you want, they are 135-140W TDP!

Skylake is best, i5 6600 or 6600K depending on if you intend to OC etc. Something like a Shadow Rock Slim is probably good for the CPU cooler, but if you want looks and something that harmonizes well with your case choice, I suggest the Phanteks PH-TC14PE, choose the color you like, Black, White, Blue, Red.... All look amazing, and having similar fans than the rest of the case seems like a good idea to me in theory, not sure if this changes anything in practice.

For a more quiet build, consider a different case perhaps. I'm not sure how quiet the Phanteks is, but here, the Define R5 is a very popular choice, often people add an extra fan for even better airflow.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:00 am

Well, as for CPU, I meant that a 22nm i7-4790K might be with 88W TDP a good idea... but since I did not need the HyperThreading (4 cores, 8 threads) and the IGP, then I wonder, if I can get lower TDP CPU with similar CPU power, capable or running at 4GHz w/o too much voltage?

Less voltage = lesser TDP = quietier operation.

Could someone suggest a CPU, that I can cool at low RPM on CPU fan (say 750 to 1000 RPM), witch means that it will be quiet?

I mean to use either Noctua NH-C14S (this cool well the CPU VRMs!) or the Phanteks PH-TC14PE (with one fan between all the massive heatsinks) ... but in the later case I worry a bit about the CPU VRMs.


...but on the other hand, good news is, that the CPU could be a terrible overclocker with wall at 4.1GHz - all I care is the lowest TDP up to 4GHz. Maybe I can cool only 3.8GHz quietly, so... if the voltage is seriously low, then a 3.8GHz is enought ;)


That CPU would determine the mainboard then.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:46 am

trodas wrote:Well, as for CPU, I meant that a 22nm i7-4790K might be with 88W TDP a good idea... but since I did not need the HyperThreading (4 cores, 8 threads) and the IGP, then I wonder, if I can get lower TDP CPU with similar CPU power, capable or running at 4GHz w/o too much voltage?
Pick a 4790K as you planned, disable HT, undervolt it around 1.05V vcore, lock the turbo to the lowest stock multi available (it should be 40 :mrgreen: ), and you're practically done: that's the lowest TDP 4GHz CPU available for DDR3 memory (you may do the same with a Core i7 6700K with DDR4 but currently they are in shortage and overpriced). I guess the easiest mobo for such a task could something like an above average ASUS.
Last edited by quest_for_silence on Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by nster » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:58 pm

I would go for an i5 6600K honestly. Performance, TDP, features... everything point to 6600K to me.

VRMs will be fine even with the PH-TC14PE

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:31 pm

nster wrote:I would go for an i5 6600K honestly. Performance, TDP, features... everything point to 6600K to me.
May you kindly explain more? I'd say no, but I'd rather you show your point:

Code: Select all

╔═════════════╦══════╦════════╦════════╦═══════════════════╗
║   Model     ║ TDP  ║ Base   ║ Turbo  ║     Features      ║
╠═════════════╬══════╬════════╬════════╬═══════════════════╣
║ 4790K       ║ 88W  ║ 4.0GHz ║ 4.4GHz ║ To be determined  ║
║ 6600K       ║ 91W  ║ 3.5GHz ║ 3.9GHz ║ To be determined  ║
║ 3rd option  ║ ??W  ║ ??GHz  ║ ??GHz  ║ To be determined  ║
╚═════════════╩══════╩════════╩════════╩═══════════════════╝
[/size]

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:23 am

If it's just a simplistic look at stock base/turbo speeds, then yeah, the i7-4790K wins. But if you add in other factors:
- games really don't benefit much from more than 4 physical cores.
- There's decreasing benefit beyond 3.5GHz for fps. However, it looks like you can easily OC the i5-6600K to at least 4GHz with stock voltage.
- While the TDP is 91W for the i5-6600K, it looks like it runs a lot lower than that. Here's the power delta (idle to OCCT) from Anantech's review.
Image

- It's about a wash in price, build-wise. $60 cheaper CPU for the 6600K will be eaten up by higher RAM and mobo costs. But, you pick up better mobo features.

All in all, it'll cost about the same, but it'll run the same fps at a lower power and you pick up the newer feature sets.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:55 am

It looks nicely, but none of these tests feature a undervolting of the CPU.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:12 am

Finding an undervolting review is just a little more likely than spotting a unicorn. :)

In general, you are able to undervolt an Intel CPU about 0.1V and maintain stock speeds. YMMV.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by Abula » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:15 am

Personally i no longer undervolt, its not like it was before, intel and windows power management are pretty good, specially since they undervolt and underclock depending on the loads, i no longer see the gains we used to in the past, not saying it cant be tweaked, but to me its not worth it.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by nster » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:13 pm

Steve's answer was nicely detailed. Also note the TDP in the non-K version is 65W, hinting on the power efficiency of Skylake.

I remember, my old i7 920 D0 that could be undervolted while OCed by 25%. While at stock the performance wasn't great, once tweaked, it was quite a beast. I think many things can be tweaked as such to make them better than they seem

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:08 pm

CA_Steve wrote:If it's just a simplistic look at stock base/turbo speeds, then yeah, the i7-4790K wins. But if you add in other factors:
- games really don't benefit much from more than 4 physical cores.

Which word of "disable HT" wasn't enough stressed in my post, Steve? :mrgreen:

CA_Steve wrote: There's decreasing benefit beyond 3.5GHz for fps

This assertion would need some supporting data, according to me: might you kindly provide some? I'd be glad to read about. :?:

CA_Steve wrote:However, it looks like you can easily OC the i5-6600K to at least 4GHz with stock voltage.

Thus increasing the 6600K power draw/TDP and the relevant heath footprint.

CA_Steve wrote:While the TDP is 91W for the i5-6600K, it looks like it runs a lot lower than that.

And that's true for the Core i7 too: if you disable HT and run it at 6600K speed limits, it will run a lot lower than that, won't it? :twisted:

CA_Steve wrote:it'll run the same fps at a lower power and you pick up the newer feature sets

That it will run at same fps at lower power need some supporting data, which I'd be glad to see, but what do you mean mainly for feature set? Different USB flavour? Unused PCIe lanes?

nster wrote:Steve's answer was nicely detailed.

But it wasn't your one: by the way, if it's fully representative of your thought, that's enough. :wink:

nster wrote:Also note the TDP in the non-K version is 65W, hinting on the power efficiency of Skylake.

Non K version doesn't scale up to 4GHz, and 65W Skylake don't consume less than 91W Skylake at equal clockspeed.

nster wrote:I remember, my old i7 920 D0 that could be undervolted while OCed by 25%. While at stock the performance wasn't great, once tweaked, it was quite a beast. I think many things can be tweaked as such to make them better than they seem

I wouldn't agree on that: a 25% ocing is a 25% more speed, at best, and personally I don't understand why a "beast" is just 25% better than "something not great", but at any rate, on a non-K SKU you can tweak about nothing, while on a K SKU any clock increase also increase power draw/TDP.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:36 pm

This assertion would need some supporting data, according to me: might you kindly provide some? I'd be glad to read about.
I really don't want to do a data dive or spend more time on this. :)

However, my opinion is based on site's where they include charts for fps vs core count and fps vs cpu freq for games they benchmark. Techspot is one.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:57 am

CA_Steve wrote:
This assertion would need some supporting data, according to me: might you kindly provide some? I'd be glad to read about.
I really don't want to do a data dive or spend more time on this. :)

So you shouldn't mention that, there will ever be someone who may ask about... :P

CA_Steve wrote:However, my opinion is based on site's where they include charts for fps vs core count and fps vs cpu freq for games they benchmark. Techspot is one.
I guess is not the most clear example, if they conclude: "I am not sure we have ever seen a game that showed just a 2fps difference between the FX-9590 clocked at 2.5GHz and 4.5GHz.". Just as a not so educated guess, maybe something like Flight Simulator may show off some different figures between CPUs.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:02 pm

Okay, so for more constructive debate - for quiet VGA cooling - anyone know something better that Prolimatech MK-26 cooler? It seems to be recommended by SPCR:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1301-page5.html

Looks nice:
http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/ ... 95#showtab

...and let me install 2x 120mm fans easily:
Image
http://www.prolimatech.com/uploadfile/e ... 640508.jpg

That should do it for the VGA part. For the CPU part, the Skylake is (thanks to DDR4 prices, mainboard prices and lousy timings on DDR4 rams) out of the question. So it will be a i7-4790K ... now some luck finding one that run near or under 1V at 4GHz is need, lol :)

For cooling was suggested the Phanteks PH-TC14PE - but what fan to use? The standard one, or some 140mm 1000rpm Noiseblocker would be better...? Suggestions?

...

As for mainboard, these Z87 ones from Asus does not feature M.2 SSD ports, so looks like Z97 is the way to go. Are there something worth mentioning in terms of difference between Z87 and Z97 - besides the M.2...?

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:23 pm

trodas wrote:thanks to DDR4 prices, mainboard prices and lousy timings on DDR4 rams

Though atm I second your opting for LGA1150, in EU there isn't that much difference: what about purchasing in Germany/Austria? About timings, do those matters? I don't think so.

trodas wrote:now some luck finding one that run near or under 1V at 4GHz is need, lol :)

Don't be fooled by Anandtech and the likes, never found an Ivy/Haswell/Devil's Canyon who did that stable.

trodas wrote:For cooling was suggested the Phanteks PH-TC14PE - but what fan to use? The standard one, or some 140mm 1000rpm Noiseblocker would be better...? Suggestions?

The Noiseblocker 140mm ones are not any better, and the stock fan can be conveniently driven to low noise level.

trodas wrote:Are there something worth mentioning in terms of difference between Z87 and Z97 - besides the M.2...?

DPC latency which may affect audio/video data streaming is way higher on Z87, USB 3.1 is surely not available on Z87, fan controller is comparatively inferior on most of Z87 boards (the only exception was ASRock, which was about the same)... I don't recall further details at the moment, but I mean, you should find a very much cheaper Z87 board, to prefer it to a Z97 one.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:15 am

DPC latency which may affect audio/video data streaming is way higher on Z87, USB 3.1 is surely not available on Z87, fan controller is comparatively inferior on most of Z87 boards (the only exception was ASRock, which was about the same)... I don't recall further details at the moment, but I mean, you should find a very much cheaper Z87 board, to prefer it to a Z97 one.
+1

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:37 am

So, Asus Z97-PRO then looks like a good choice for mainboard, correct?

...the biggest fail of Z87 for me is the lack of M.2 slot for the quick SSD, not bottlenecked by SATA3...
Though atm I second your opting for LGA1150, in EU there isn't that much difference: what about purchasing in Germany/Austria? About timings, do those matters? I don't think so.
Czech republic. Just between Germany and Austria... :) And yea, timings did not make much differences todays.
Don't be fooled by Anandtech and the likes, never found an Ivy/Haswell/Devil's Canyon who did that stable.
Gotta ask some overclockers then, if this is plausible. One highly priced i7-4790K did "5 ghz 1.18 S-pi 32M"
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=145724
(550 euro...)

i7-4770K - 5GHz at 1.18Vcore:
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=148830
(same voltage...)

So, when a 5GHz is possible at little over 1V, then surely 4GHz are possible at 1V or even 0.95V...

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:33 pm

trodas wrote:So, Asus Z97-PRO then looks like a good choice for mainboard, correct?

Though I don't own it, I guess it's a good board.

trodas wrote:Gotta ask some overclockers then, if this is plausible. One highly priced i7-4790K did "5 ghz 1.18 S-pi 32M"
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=145724
(550 euro...)

I would be cautious, extremely cautious: from what I understand, those aren't the "real" numbers, unless you want just boot and perform a pi calculation with your upcoming build.

Those are "more real" numbers:

http://forum.hwbot.org/showpost.php?p=4 ... ostcount=2 (note, anything below 8hrs isn't really stable for daily)
http://forum.hwbot.org/showpost.php?p=4 ... ostcount=7 (suspicious, XTU bench shouldn't be such demanding)

and they were obtained on a delidded CPU (under water cooling): no way you can do the same on air and without dismantling the CPU to change the internal TIM.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:42 pm

trodas wrote:Okay, so for more constructive debate - for quiet VGA cooling - anyone know something better that Prolimatech MK-26 cooler? It seems to be recommended by SPCR:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1301-page5.html

Looks nice:
http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/ ... 95#showtab

...and let me install 2x 120mm fans easily:
Image
http://www.prolimatech.com/uploadfile/e ... 640508.jpg
I was researching the gpu cooler option incase my 2x aio plan fail. you can look at the raijintek morpheus, cheaper than mk26(assume in us) since newegg no longer carry the non back version. Also the mk26 have a odd shape that extrude above the card which may be bad?or good?

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:42 pm

trodas wrote:...the biggest fail of Z87 for me is the lack of M.2 slot for the quick SSD, not bottlenecked by SATA3...
Go for PCIe based m.2 because you like the cool form factor. Don't get it because you think it'll noticably improve boot or game loads times or fps over SATA III. 'cause it won't. Not for your use case.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:09 pm

baii -
raijintek morpheus, cheaper than mk26(assume in us) since newegg no longer carry the non back version. Also the mk26 have a odd shape that extrude above the card which may be bad?or good?
Thanks a lot! That is a great suggestion and the Raijintek MORPHEUS seems to be my favorite right now. It is question, how it compare to the Prolimatech MK-26 and witch is better for quiet operation, but since the Raijintek MORPHEUS have fins all the way under the fans, then it IMHO win.
Price is no consideration in this build, only noise.

SPCR review of this Raijintek MORPHEUS might be interesting:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/0 ... r-review/3
...since the fins are IMHO too close to be really effective using low-rpm fans.


CA_Steve -
Go for PCIe based m.2 because you like the cool form factor. Don't get it because you think it'll noticably improve boot or game loads times or fps over SATA III. 'cause it won't. Not for your use case.
Well, I like that the M.2 SSD is so small, that it in fact, become a part of the mainboard. That is my main reason. It will not impede airflow or cost any space, that is the main reason.
I did not expect any notable performance kick over SATA3, but at least a bit fastr it should boot, lol.

So, what is your suggestion for fastest M.2 SSD? There seems to be a chance, because:

Ordered today first batch:
i7-4790K
Phanteks PH-TC14PE
Asus Z97-PRO
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series F3-14900CL8D-8GBXM (8-9-9-24)
Plextor M6e PCIe M.2

...bug there seems to be excesive wait for the mobo (they started with 9.12.2015 and quickly moved to 15.12.2015, witch is unacceptable, so I have to find a quickier service) and also for the Phanteks PH-TC14PE and Plextor M6e PCIe M.2. It might be a good idea/time then to check out, if there are not faster and better M.2 SSDs. Going for just 128G one for the OS only, so... Maybe there are better choices? Did someone compared that somewhere...?

Also I wonder, if you had some experience with noise dampening foam. I seems to find only 4mm thick one: Akasa AK-PAX-2 ... and that seems to me too light. So if anyone have ANY experience, then pls share :) This *MUST* be quiet, or I throw this garbage out :evil:

As for the CPU, I plan to disable turbo and limit it to 4GHz (at most). So I hoping that I could limit the Vcore to the default 0.976V, witch goes under load to 1.05V on VERY good chip... So it is open question how good my chip will be. Disabling HT also, that should also cut down on the heat generation and I don't mind 70°C under load as long, as I did not hear the noise. Overclockers say:
VID is vcore at idle. Load is 1.05 and that's on a very good chip.
So chances to get 4GHz with under 1V (on load, of course) are pretty slim. Looks like I have to tolerate at least 1.05V :evil: :evil: :evil:

Hopefully that can be cooled down silently.





PS. looks like I did my homework badly - the Samsung SM951 M.2 SSD seems outperform the choosen Plextor M6e M.2 SSD, so I go with the Samsung now:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2977024/ ... mance.html
...that also let me order the Phanteks PH-TC14PE where it is stocked, witch leave only the Asus Z97-PRO to be hunted down...

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:54 am

Phanteks PH-TC14PE make it to me:

Image Image Image

Noise from the fans are reasonably low, maybe good for most, but I'm affraid not yet for me. But we see in case... Probably I stick with only one fan and maybe I try replace it by some 140mm Noiseblocker fan, to compare the acustics.

Still, impressive cooler :)

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:24 pm

I should have one incoming, there were only 2 review I find that compare the mk26 vs Morpheus, and the Morpheus win by a little bit.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... k-Morpheus
This one is using high rpm fan so meh.

http://www.pcaxe.com/hardver/hladjenja/ ... s/strana-9
This one is much more relevant as they use 2x NF-F12 300-1500rpm

The mk26 can fit 2 140mm fan, but a large part of fan area actually go outside of the heatsink~
raijintek did not publish the exact dimensions, bad bad compare to say prolima/thermalright stuff. It advertise 129 fin and the review show its length to be 23/24cm which give a Fin Spacing ~ 1.2-1.25 mm, does seem to be on the low side, but the thickness is only 25mm, so probably wont be a big problem.

heatsink size(ignoring all heatpipe) numbers by looking at mk-26 spec on prolima site, and numbers from morpheus review
mk26 176*146*30
morpheus 230(240)*100*25

So the number is saying the mk26 actually have slightly bigger surface area. mk26 is thicker but less dense, so probably a draw.
I guess the morpheus utilize 2x 120mm fan better, the MK26 with 2x 140mm fan may draw or better than morpheus.

If you slap those "thing" on 960, I think it will just do fine on passive. Some mfg should make 950/960 passive sooner or later.

Would be awesome if they make 2x 140mm fan gpu cooler that actually use up 280mm.

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