Fractal r5 case fans and more

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ThePrussianPrince
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Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:03 am

Hello. First of all I want to thank you for the wonderful website, great job.

Now, to my issue. I'm getting the fractal r5 (no window of course). I'm wondering if it's a good idea to move the back fan to the front and buy the Antec True Quiet 140 for the back. I'll be plugging them in the fan controller and setting them to the middle option (7v I think?). Is this a good idea? I know Steve from here has a similar fan setup. Maybe there's a better way?

Also, I have another issue. I purchased a WD Black 2TB recently and it'seems quite loud. Thought it would be quieter. Will the new setup eliminate the vibration/noise of it noticeably enough? I had a CM 690 II Advanced before.

Thanks!

CA_Steve
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:50 am

Welcome to SPCR.

3rd fan: I like it for the added airflow and positive pressure. If you don't have a gfx card with it's additional heat load, it's really not needed. If you do, then it's a cheap add.
ThePrussianPrince wrote:Will the new setup eliminate the vibration/noise of [WD Black] noticeably enough? I had a CM 690 II Advanced before.Thanks!
Nope. It's a loud drive for seek noise. You can reduce the vibration component by suspending the drive rather than hard mounting.

ThePrussianPrince
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:35 am

CA_Steve wrote:Welcome to SPCR.

3rd fan: I like it for the added airflow and positive pressure. If you don't have a gfx card with it's additional heat load, it's really not needed. If you do, then it's a cheap add.
ThePrussianPrince wrote:Will the new setup eliminate the vibration/noise of [WD Black] noticeably enough? I had a CM 690 II Advanced before.Thanks!
Nope. It's a loud drive for seek noise. You can reduce the vibration component by suspending the drive rather than hard mounting.
Thank you! I hope to be around here for a while.

I have a GPU. Gigabyte GTX 780 Windforce. So the question is: Antec True Quiet 140 for rear exhaust or another fan? Maybe another Fractal if I can get one?

Regarding suspension, isn't that dangerous? Is there a good and easy method?

Also currently I have a Seasonic G750 modular PSU. Was that a good choice!8

quest_for_silence
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:46 am

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Is this a good idea?

Is this a good idea... in order to do what?

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Maybe there's a better way?

See above: state your requirements/design goal.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Will the new setup eliminate the vibration/noise of it noticeably enough?

No: as already said, suspend the drive for vibrations, though that won't mask the airborne noise.

ThePrussianPrince
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:19 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
ThePrussianPrince wrote:Is this a good idea?

Is this a good idea... in order to do what?

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Maybe there's a better way?

See above: state your requirements/design goal.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Will the new setup eliminate the vibration/noise of it noticeably enough?

No: as already said, suspend the drive for vibrations, though that won't mask the airborne noise.
Sorry for not being clear enough.

I mean if it's a good idea to move 1 of the stock fans to the front and get another as rear exhaust. Also which to get.

My requirements are to have a setup that won't be loud, at least not loud enough to be picked up by a Samson C03U microphone. The case would be close to the microphone as both are going to be on a desk. I hate putting cases on the floor.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:23 am

How to suspend an HDD in the Fractal R4/R5.

I wouldn't suggest placing a PC with fans next to a live mic...in this case, maybe you can get away with it by setting the mic to it's super cardioid pattern and maybe the rear attenuation won't pick up any PC noise.

I'd expect the HDD and gfx card will overwhelm the case and PSU fans. What's the CPU cooler?

Seasonic G750: it's ok. If you can't hear it, it's great :)

Also, what's the motherboard? You might be better off using it's controls for case fans...and using MSI Afterburner for your gfx card. Set up different fan profiles - one for live mic another for gaming (or for whatever you use the gfx card's horsepower for).

ThePrussianPrince
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:40 am

CA_Steve wrote:How to suspend an HDD in the Fractal R4/R5.

I wouldn't suggest placing a PC with fans next to a live mic...in this case, maybe you can get away with it by setting the mic to it's super cardioid pattern and maybe the rear attenuation won't pick up any PC noise.

I'd expect the HDD and gfx card will overwhelm the case and PSU fans. What's the CPU cooler?

Seasonic G750: it's ok. If you can't hear it, it's great :)

Also, what's the motherboard? You might be better off using it's controls for case fans...and using MSI Afterburner for your gfx card. Set up different fan profiles - one for live mic another for gaming (or for whatever you use the gfx card's horsepower for).
How would I place the PC though? If the case was on the floor won't it gather more dust or have worse cooling leading to more noise?

The mic is already in super cardoid. Wouldn't have it otherwise.

CPU cooler is a Noctua NH-D15. Both fans mounted in push pull. Hard to properly mount though.

As for the motherboard it's a Gigabyte G1 Sniper Z97. I think I would prefer the fan controller.

I already use MSI Afterburner for the fan curve. Sadly it has to go pretty high as I play demanding games. Essentially I play games and record with commentary.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:08 am

If your floor has pet hair tumbleweeds, then yes, it'll collect more dust. Otherwise, not much more than being on the desk. If it's a carpeted floor, then you'll want to elevate the case a bit for bottom PSU airflow. Cheapest way - a sturdy piece of wood big enough for the 4 rubber feet.

Upsides to case on floor
- distance from mic.
- no case vibration transmitted to mic.

Anyway, noise reduction is an iterative process. See if the case fan controller works for you. If you don't like the noise levels, then try the mobo s/w.

ThePrussianPrince
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:14 pm

CA_Steve wrote:If your floor has pet hair tumbleweeds, then yes, it'll collect more dust. Otherwise, not much more than being on the desk. If it's a carpeted floor, then you'll want to elevate the case a bit for bottom PSU airflow. Cheapest way - a sturdy piece of wood big enough for the 4 rubber feet.

Upsides to case on floor
- distance from mic.
- no case vibration transmitted to mic.

Anyway, noise reduction is an iterative process. See if the case fan controller works for you. If you don't like the noise levels, then try the mobo s/w.
Sadly I have a cat so I suppose putting it on the floor may not be as viable. Not sure if the benefits outweigh the minuses, I'm worried about the risk to the components. Anyway I don't have a carpeted floor so it might be fine.

In the meantime, I'm RMAing all the products with defects I have been living with because the PC literally doesn'the work anymore. I have to wait 1-2 hours to start the PC and whenever it does it doesn't detect the audio or Internet or both sometimes. Once it's shut down I have to wait an hour or so again to start it...

The first product I tried to RMA was denied. A Logitech mouse. Apparently the mouse serial number doesn't match the box's so they say it's not the same product. Well it's not my fault Logitech did it like that. Sigh. Did that ever happen to anyone else? Also, funnily enough they said that even their database doesn't have the proper serial number.

Again, regarding the 3rd fan. Is the Antec True Quiet 140 the best option?

Anyway sorry for going a bit OT and thanks for the help. Let me know if there is anything else.

CA_Steve
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:09 pm

Buy a finished piece of wood shelving from Home Depot or similar and then place either rubber feet or casters under it. That'll lift it above the furball zone.

Antec fan is fine.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:13 pm

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Sorry for not being clear enough.

Apparently also my question wasn't enough clear: it doesn't matter that you want to add a third fan, but why you want to add it.

Apparently you don't need a third fan: a) a 3-fans GTX 780 (more probably that not) should not be ever compatible with a mic at a really close distance on a desk (more probably that not because it's too hot and the Gigabyte controller is not enough gentle), either with two front fans or just one; b) and whether it were compatible (hypothesis), it would be so when (more probably that not) the GTX 780 3D engine were idling, so when it wouldn't need any second front intake fan (which should be, on the contrary, self-defeating, actually adding more noise), but just cooking a custom fan curve (using Afterburner or the likes).

What I wrote above is just my not that educated guess: feel free to better explain me how/where it's wrong showing your point.

Eventually to suspend a drive using 3rd party parts, you may use the NoiseMagic NoVibes, or maybe something like this.

All in all, I think you'd better to actually test your upcoming build with your mic on your desk, and just then try to plan what to do (in case): and forget the "perfect fan", it just doesn't exist (though there are good ones and bad ones: Fractal and Antec are both good).

ThePrussianPrince
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:53 pm

I want to add a third because my thought is that the added noise from the fan would be outweighed by improving the cooling of other components, thereby reducing overall noise. Am I wrong?

I have used my mic before with my setup, and depending on its orientation it's not that bad. Some noise still gets picked up. I was thinking I could further reduce that with a more silent case, the Fractal R5 compared to my current CM 690 II Advanced.

And yeah, the 780 wasn't a good idea for something like this for silence. But the thing is, I need both power and silence, and at the time that seemed like the best choice. If I had the option now, I would probably get the Palit JetStream 980 Ti as that seems to be the quietest 980 Ti. A 970 would probably be a lot quieter, but the performance loss far too great. Note I'm not going to buy a new GPU, just saying if I were to.

Essentially, it is not a full new build, just some components that would reduce noise like a new case, fans and the like. That is my goal here. Which is why I'm asking for as close to best option as possible for 3rd fan. The Fractal or the Antec. Or are you saying that the difference is negligible? Again, also if I need a 3rd fan because now I see conflicting opinions.

Also, as you can see I'm from Europe due to me thinking about the Palit card. I will see what I can do about the piece of wood.

Thanks again.

PS: GP-14 fan seems slightly more expensive than the Antec. 14 USD vs 20. Not a big deal though, and it matches the other fans.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:30 am

ThePrussianPrince wrote:I want to add a third because my thought is that the added noise from the fan would be outweighed by improving the cooling of other components, thereby reducing overall noise. Am I wrong?

Broadly speaking, your mileage may vary. A lot. But usually adding the third fan in this kind of enclosures generates almost identical results as the stock configuration at load, along with a slight increase in noise level at idle (at least with SPCR-like rigs: check the latest SPCR' case review about that). Take also note that more open enclosures may be as quiet as solid-front ones, depending of actual fan settings/curves (look at the last table).

ThePrussianPrince wrote:GP-14 fan seems slightly more expensive than the Antec. 14 USD vs 20. Not a big deal though, and it matches the other fans.
Then pick the Antec: you are insisting about which one is better, but SPCR microphone said they're about on par with reference to SPL in a typical single GPU configuration.
What the Antec (and Noctuas) does more than the GP-14 is to slow down much more, if needed (~200rpm vs ~500rpm): but it mostly depends of how you drive it (which mobo, bios or software, which curve).
To lower the overall emissions you may also use a 120mm exhaust (as Puget/Fractal did), like an NZXT FN V2 or a Scythe Slipstream. Another common option for the Define is the 140mm Phanteks PH-F140HP, it may also be dialed down to ~200rpm: some users subjectively prefers it to the SR-2 (R4)/GP-14 (R5).

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:07 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Broadly speaking, your mileage may vary. A lot. But usually adding the third fan in this kind of enclosures generates almost identical results as the stock configuration at load, along with a slight increase in noise level at idle (at least with SPCR-like rigs: check the latest SPCR' case review about that). Take also note that more open enclosures may be as quiet as solid-front ones, depending of actual fan settings/curves (look at the last table).
I suppose you may be right. However, what you linked me:

A. Is a different case and as such it may or may not be the case with my case (excuse the puns here, haha).
B. I didn't see whether or not he took off the dust filters for the test. I remember reading an article on SPCR that dust filters may block even up to 50% of the airflow and that in general they're not very good for silence/airflow. Should I take off the dust filters? I'm worried about the potential dust that may get inside. I also wonder if the front door of that case blocks as much airflow as the door of the Fractal, too. Probably does.

As for the second link, it seems to be an R4 which is quite similar to the R5. Now as they say, after removing the dust filters and the door the cooling is substantially improved at the cost of extra noise. However, if you were to keep the dust filters and the door, but add a 3rd fan, wouldn't there be a cooling improvement as well at the cost of less noise? That is precisely what I'm thinking. With no dust filters/front door I'm sure it's not a good idea to add one, but in this situation it might.

I'm thinking that the combination of dust filters and front door restrict airflow enough that a third fan may be necessary, at least for my setup (the hungry GPU and CPU). It should definitely help cool the HDD's though, right? I'm planning to remove all the 3 cages included (or bays, however you call it) and just keep the 3 3.5'' HDD bays one. I will be using the 2TB WD Black there and an older 1TB WD Blue (can't remember the model off the top of my head, but it's fairly quiet nevertheless.

Sorry for being really nitpicky and paranoid and stressing the same point over and over, hehe. Let me know if I'm wrong/right.
quest_for_silence wrote:Then pick the Antec: you are insisting about which one is better, but SPCR microphone said they're about on par with reference to SPL in a typical single GPU configuration.
What the Antec (and Noctuas) does more than the GP-14 is to slow down much more, if needed (~200rpm vs ~500rpm): but it mostly depends of how you drive it (which mobo, bios or software, which curve).
To lower the overall emissions you may also use a 120mm exhaust (as Puget/Fractal did), like an NZXT FN V2 or a Scythe Slipstream. Another common option for the Define is the 140mm Phanteks PH-F140HP, it may also be dialed down to ~200rpm: some users subjectively prefers it to the SR-2 (R4)/GP-14 (R5).
So with my planned setup, what do you think would be optimal to use with the fan controller? Low, medium, or high? (It's 5v, 7v and 12v right?). I don't think I'll ever need the fans to be that slow considering that I'm going to keep using high end CPUs and GPUs. Also, I'll probably just get the GP-14 anyway, to match, despite the higher price. 3 matching fans seems like a pretty cool idea, I'm quite fond of it.

Also, where did you find the comparison between the GP-14 and Antec True Quiet 140? I couldn't find it. :(

Thanks for the help!

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by Button_Mash » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:55 pm

I think the article you need is the Quiet ATX Gamer, R5 Version. In the article he mentions that the stock R5 fan (GP-14) is at least as quiet as the Antec TrueQuiet 140. He also tested with both 2 and 3 fans and found that when mounted in the front of the case the third fan produced a positive result. He did remove the drive cages for that though I think. No tests there without the filter though. Have a read and see if it helps answer some of your questions.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:45 pm

Button_Mash wrote:I think the article you need is the Quiet ATX Gamer, R5 Version. In the article he mentions that the stock R5 fan (GP-14) is at least as quiet as the Antec TrueQuiet 140. He also tested with both 2 and 3 fans and found that when mounted in the front of the case the third fan produced a positive result. He did remove the drive cages for that though I think. No tests there without the filter though. Have a read and see if it helps answer some of your questions.
It does indeed seem that the 3rd fan provides no extra noise while better cooling the system. Anyway, once I have my build, I'll remove all the cages except the 3 HDD bay one as I doubt I'll ever use more than 3 HDD's, I only have a need for 2 at the moment. Eventually I might set up a NAS, but that's quite far into the future.

I'll get another GP-14 and mount it as a front intake fan, under the stock one. That'll mean I'll have a rear GP-14 and 2 front GP-14s. Oh, the GP-14 goodiness.

Still leaves me with a question though. Which setting on the fan controller? In the review he seems to use the minimum, but is that what I should do as well?

And another silly question. How do I add the 3rd fan? Do I have to add it from the inside, or from the outside of the case (by taking off the filters and such)?

Thanks!

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:49 am

ThePrussianPrince wrote:It does indeed seem that the 3rd fan provides no extra noise while better cooling the system.
At full load (as already said), more cooling, without reducing the overall noise level (your thought: "I want to add a third ... thereby reducing overall noise"). Does it still worth? It's up to your call.
At any rate, what about at idle? He didn' reported.

Take also note those results apply to a GPU which pumps into the case 60-90W less than your one, with different ambient temp and humidity, so use a pinch of salt: eventually, as you're going to spend those 20 bucks more, please report us about (given you have a mic, you can be helpful to the community).

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Still leaves me with a question though. Which setting on the fan controller? In the review he seems to use the minimum, but is that what I should do as well?

I don't think mr. Lee did so: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1420-page6.html - though he didn't state that clearly (tables and images seem to point towards the ASUS FanXpert 3).

ThePrussianPrince wrote:And another silly question. How do I add the 3rd fan? Do I have to add it from the inside, or from the outside of the case (by taking off the filters and such)?

The screws rails are inside (but you still have to detach the filter).

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:20 am

quest_for_silence wrote:At full load (as already said), more cooling, without reducing the overall noise level (your thought: "I want to add a third ... thereby reducing overall noise"). Does it still worth? It's up to your call.
At any rate, what about at idle? He didn' reported.

Take also note those results apply to a GPU which pumps into the case 60-90W less than your one, with different ambient temp and humidity, so use a pinch of salt: eventually, as you're going to spend those 20 bucks more, please report us about (given you have a mic, you can be helpful to the community).
Well, the sound levels remain the same but the components are cooler. That means he can technically lower the RPM of the fans (in the 3 fan setup) a little bit to lower the noise level below the 2 fan one, and having the same cooling effect.

Indeed, there are a lot of factors to consider and even if I had the exact components as him, I might still have a different result. I'm still going to get the extra fan anyway as I'm still convinced that it might help, if only a tiny bit haha. I'll first setup the case with 1 front intake fan though, then add the other later on (to make sure everything is working fine and will make testing easier).

Regarding testing, I can definitely do that but I'd need some personal assistance with how exactly to set things up in that regard. It's for after I finish the build, which should at most be 2 weeks from now.
quest_for_silence wrote:I don't think mr. Lee did so: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1420-page6.html - though he didn't state that clearly (tables and images seem to point towards the ASUS FanXpert 3).
Ah, yeah you might be right. I suppose either 5v or 7v should be optimal, might have to experiment.
quest_for_silence wrote:The screws rails are inside (but you still have to detach the filter).
I see, thanks. Anyway I seem to have encountered a (potential) issue. I don't know if I'm overreacting or not, but I'm worried about my case because there seem to be scratches on the case's box. Here are some images to see what I mean. Let me know if I should be worried or not.

Images: http://imgur.com/a/LZFk3

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:18 am

ThePrussianPrince wrote:That means he can technically lower the RPM of the fans (in the 3 fan setup) a little bit to lower the noise level below the 2 fan one, and having the same cooling effect.

Whether mr. Lee had been able to lower the noise (lowering the active cooling of the other sub-parts), probably he would have done that: so it doesn't work that way you say, he just cannot.

Actually you have a rather different GPU, so the same conclusion doesn't apply plainly to your rig (that's why I said your mileage may vary a lot), though in my experience in similar scenarios the advantage is often negligible or close to (that's why I said usually adding a third fan generates almost identical results): incidentally that's what mr. Lee found out, he was technically able to lower the overall noise (but only lowering the case fans speed, as documented in the table's third column) of... a smidge over half a decibel?

Geez... more or less the same difference magnitude (0.5/1.5) there was between the Antec TrueQuiet and the GP-14, which have been said to emit an about identical level... I'm not discouraging you, those are just my experiences, opinions and guessworks: so please try and report your feelings/findings/perceptions, I hope you might be right. :wink:

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Let me know if I should be worried or not.

More probably that not, you shouldn't: on the other hand, that cannot be certain.
Just pull it out and see (if you're that worried, you may use a cam to provide a proof of your unboxing).

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:56 am

quest_for_silence wrote:Whether mr. Lee had been able to lower the noise (lowering the active cooling of the other sub-parts), probably he would have done that: so it doesn't work that way you say, he just cannot.

Actually you have a rather different GPU, so the same conclusion doesn't apply plainly to your rig (that's why I said your mileage may vary a lot), though in my experience in similar scenarios the advantage is often negligible or close to (that's why I said usually adding a third fan generates almost identical results): incidentally that's what mr. Lee found out, he was technically able to lower the overall noise (but only lowering the case fans speed, as documented in the table's third column) of... a smidge over half a decibel?

Geez... more or less the same difference magnitude (0.5/1.5) there was between the Antec TrueQuiet and the GP-14, which have been said to emit an about identical level... I'm not discouraging you, those are just my experiences, opinions and guessworks: so please try and report your feelings/findings/perceptions, I hope you might be right. :wink:
Well, you obviously have a lot more experience than me in this field and you are more likely to be right than I am, but that doesn't mean I won't try to see if my point is right. So indeed, I'll see how the test works out (gonna have to be in a while as I said, then I'll have to wait for the CPU burn-in, etc). Also, I'm generally terrible with thermal paste. I recall Steve or you mentioning in a thread that if the thermal paste looks fractal, it's terribly applied. It needs to be thicker towards the outer edges as well (?). Is there a trick to the thermal paste application? With a 4790k, do you do a line or a bob (forgot the exact name, haha). There must be a trick to always (or nearly always) to apply it correctly, and the correct amount.
quest_for_silence wrote:More probably that not, you shouldn't: on the other hand, that cannot be certain.
Just pull it out and see (if you're that worried, you may use a cam to provide a proof of your unboxing).
Alright, I will be recording the whole unboxing just in case. If something is wrong, at least I have proof.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:08 am

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Is there a trick to the thermal paste application? With a 4790k, do you do a line or a bob (forgot the exact name, haha). There must be a trick to always (or nearly always) to apply it correctly, and the correct amount.

Actually no: the only real trick is "not too little/not too much", while tinting always helps a bit (but it's tedious).

The easiest way is the "middle dot" or "rice grain" method (the one you called "bob"?), the most accredited one may probably be the "vertical line" method:
vertical_line.jpg

The relevant area coverage has to always be the same:
min_coverage.jpg

(these above images come from Arctic Silver instructions)

But the methods may be as many as you want (that's what Puget found a while ago: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... iques-170/ ).

You may check either good or bad footprint images at page 3 on any SPCR single heatsink review (while in those ones with more than one cooler reviewed, that page may vary).
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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:24 am

quest_for_silence wrote:Actually no: the only real trick is "not too little/not too much", while tinting always helps a bit (but it's tedious).

The easiest way is the "middle dot" or "rice grain" method (the one you called "bob"?), the most accredited one may probably be the "vertical line" method:
vertical_line.jpg

The relevant area coverage has to always be the same:
min_coverage.jpg

(these above images come from Arctic Silver instructions)

But the methods may be as many as you want (that's what Puget found a while ago: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... iques-170/ ).

You may check either good or bad footprint images at page 3 on any SPCR single heatsink review (while in those ones with more than one cooler reviewed, that page may vary).
Yes, that's the name! Middle dot method.

I feel like I either put too much, or too little. It's so damn hard for me. There really is no trick to putting just enough paste on the CPU?

Like, how does your process go exactly? You take the thermal paste syringe and then apply it with the syringe facing directly towards the top of the CPU, or kind of like diagonally? Is there an easy way to tell when your tube's let out enough paste?

Also, people twist the heatsinks slightly when they mount the heatsink on top of the CPU to spread the paste. Others don't. Which way should I do it?

Another question: microfiber cloth with isopropyl alcohol is used to clean the paste on the CPU, right? At least, that's the best option as far as I'm aware.

In addition to this, I have another question: just compressed air to clean the PC, or also vacuuming? There seems to be debate in both cases, though it seems to me that compressed air would be safer while vacuuming could cause issues.

Sorry again for going really deep into detail, but seeing as I've always messed up the paste application I obviously need some help in that regard.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:26 pm

ThePrussianPrince wrote:There really is no trick to putting just enough paste on the CPU?

I'm not aware of any: just personal experience/preferences. Perhaps you may pick a rice grain, put it on the heatspreader, then try to replicate it with a small drop of your TIM: eventually mount your heatsink on it and then unmount. More probably that not you will be able to observe that an identical volume of paste will be a tad too little, but that may give you a better idea/approximation about how much TIM to squeeze.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Like, how does your process go exactly? You take the thermal paste syringe and then apply it with the syringe facing directly towards the top of the CPU, or kind of like diagonally? Is there an easy way to tell when your tube's let out enough paste?

I think it mostly depends of your TIM of choice, of its consistency and texture and of relevant application spout: a thicker, denser grease (like the Ceramique) would lend towards a "diagonal" application to help spreading, while comparatively a fluffier and less dense compound (like the Kryonaut) may be applied perpendicularly with more ease. The same goes for a thin spout, versus a coarser one.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Also, people twist the heatsinks slightly when they mount the heatsink on top of the CPU to spread the paste. Others don't. Which way should I do it?

In my experience it doesn't matter: when you're going to seat and secure the heatsink, you're also going to twist it necessarily.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:Another question: microfiber cloth with isopropyl alcohol is used to clean the paste on the CPU, right?

Yes, rubbing alcohol (or Arctic Clean 1) is really good when paired with microfiber cloth (but either paper towels or makeup removing pads may work well also).

ThePrussianPrince wrote:just compressed air to clean the PC, or also vacuuming? There seems to be debate in both cases, though it seems to me that compressed air would be safer while vacuuming could cause issues.

I use compressed air since more than ten years and (luckily?) without any issue.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:47 pm

I spent years in screen printing , so i squeegee the thinnest coat possible onto the heat spreader with a new razor blade. (probably not a good idea unless you have really steady hand.)

coffee filters and isopropyl make a great lint free cleaning combo.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:50 am

I've also been using compressed air for years now and don't think I've had any issues. The question is, is it risky to combine that with vacuuming? (I want the ultimate cleaning :D) I would prefer to vacuum before and use compressed air after, so that there is less dust to "push" out with the compressed air. Might be more effective, but also more dangerous due to vacuuming. Does anyone know if it's safe?

I know there are special vacuum cleaners for PCs out there, so I'm guessing regular ones may mess things up.

Regarding the razor blade suggestion, there is no way I have hands steady enough for that haha.

Thanks for the help again. I'm not sure if there's anything else I should ask, but I might.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:01 am

ThePrussianPrince wrote:The question is, is it risky to combine that with vacuuming?
Is it risky to live on Earth? I guess the same.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:I'm guessing regular ones may mess things up.
They're probably just too bulky.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:I'm not sure if there's anything else
Was your R5 safe and sound?

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:34 am

Haven't unboxed the R5 yet. Will wait for the PSU first.

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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:55 am

No update yet. In the meantime, I have 2 more questions haha.

1. If for whatever reason they don't fix the PSU I sent in for RMA (or send me another one), what would be some good options given I always plan to have high end GPUs (note: single, doubt I'll ever get to SLI because the support is meh) and i7 Intel CPUs. Not sure if anything else is a major hog, but again I can't see myself using more than 3 HDDs. Currently on 1 SSD and 2 HDDs, eventually I'll switch to full SSD setup (when the 1TB SSD prices go down, so that'll take a while). Not sure if anything else is worth mentioning in terms of power draw. I'm going to link some local shops:

http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/
http://www.emag.ro/surse/c
http://www.evomag.ro/COMPONENTE-PC-Surse/

If you need translation of some search filters or something else, let me know.

2. Currently I have a Noctua NH-D15. Now I think this was a poor choice because I was unaware of the Scythe Kotetsu until I visited this website. Much cheaper, single fan setup (compared to dual, and I would assume that a dual fan setup is more prone to having rattle and other unpleasant things being introduced later on compared to single) and single tower instead of dual, so not as bulky at all. The question is: how does it perform compared to the NH-D15 in terms of cooling/noise? The Kotetsu and NH-D15 seem to be almost identical in that regard (maybe NH-D15 has a miniscule lead in dual fan setup), correct me if I'm wrong. What if I was to replace the stock Kotetsu fan with one of the Noctuas? Would it perform better? The Kotetsu also seems easier to mount and less prone to human error (I seem to poorly mount the NH-D15 a lot, took me a few tries). Also wondering if these coolers will be compatible post-Skylake (I guess not).

Depending on the answers, I will get the Kotetsu and use the NH-D15 in an older build.


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Re: Fractal r5 case fans and more

Post by ThePrussianPrince » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:53 am

quest_for_silence wrote: Pick any of these above and you'll be fine.
Ah, cool. Lots to choose from, haha. Hopefully it won't come to that, though, and they'll actually fix my PSU.

I forgot to mention this in the beginning, though. Is there any downside to modular or semi-modular PSUs compared to non-modular ones? Or is it just the price? Because I've seen people asking specifically for modular PSUs, or semi-modular, or non-modular. I couldn't find an article here about the exact differences (and in particular what is semi-modular, as some to have the mobo cable and the 12V, others add PCI-E cables on top, etc). I personally prefer modular PSUs, don't quite like the massive cable hog that non-modular PSUs come with. In particular, I kind of feel bad about the be quiet PSUs, from what I've seen around they seem to be excellent PSUs, though, not all are modular. The modular be quiet ones seem really pricey, though amazing.

I didn't see any recommendations of a Seasonic X PSU, though. I thought it was touted here as a fantastic series of PSUs. Is that no longer the case (as it's older), and the products that you linked above outclass it? Something wrong with it? I'm curious.

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