New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

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Delirious
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New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Sun May 15, 2016 1:24 pm

Hello everyone!

Once again I am turning to spcr to get the best advice for my new build.

Last time I built my a system was 2012 and I got a lot of good advice from you guys. After that I have done some changes to the rig as well and currently these are the specs (some of the changes were different case, passive video card and larger ssd):

* Intel i5 3450
* Scythe Tatsumi
* 2 x 4 gb corsair vengeance low-profile
* Palit GTX 750ti
* Asus h77 motherboard
* Seasonic G-360
* Node 304 case
* Samsung 850 250 gb ssd
* 3tb WD Red
* Dell U2713HM 1440p


So I am pretty satisfied with this pc as a general home rig. I do not do much gaming at all. And the games I do sometimes play works pretty good with 750 ti and 1440p resolution.


I am now planning to build a system number two that will function as a htpc/light gaming rig. I am looking for a compact reasonably quiet pc that primarily will be used with steam games and the dolphin gcn/wii emulator. It may also be used for some htpc purposes, but I already have an apple tv 4 which works fine.

So far this is what I have come up with:


Case Node 202
PSU Corsair sf450
SSD Samsung 850 250gb
RAM Corsair Vengeance 2x4 gb*
Motherboard Asus h77*
CPU Intel i5-3450*
GPU GTX 750 ti*
CPU cooler??


So the plan is the reuse the parts marked with *. Basically this means I also have to get some new parts for my old pc. So my general rig would look like this (new parts marked *):


Case Node 304
PSU Seasonic G-360
SSD Samsung 850 250 gb
RAM 8x2 gb Vengeance LPX ddr4???
CPU??
Motherboard??


What I am thinking is as outlined above to create to half-new rigs. And one of the reason for doing so is that I really will not be doing any gaming on my desktop and I was hoping that a new Skylake gpu with a more powerful igpu would let me use the 1440p display without any dedicated gpu. Also my desktop use is very basic; pretty much web browsing, word processing and so on. It also functions as a NAS/mediaserver.



I am sorry for this quite confusing post, but I hope someone is able to help me. Any suggestions on both rigs are very much appreciated!

quest_for_silence
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun May 15, 2016 3:34 pm

Delirious wrote:Case Node 202

Why? A Silverstone (FTZ01/ML07/ML08/RVZ01/RVZ01-E/RVZ02) looks like more well suited, in any case (pun not intended).

Delirious wrote:PSU Corsair sf450

Nice unit but overkill, perhaps you can get by with a more modest Silverstone SST ST-30SF.

Delirious wrote:CPU cooler??

With a Silverstone, a Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B, if coveniently priced.

Delirious wrote:CPU??

Intel Core i5 either 6500 or 6600, if you're a big spender.

Delirious wrote:Motherboard??

ASUS Z170i Pro

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Mon May 16, 2016 1:32 am

Thank you for your suggestions.

I have had a look at the silverstone cases and I have to say the design of the Raven series is not for me. THE FTZ01 looks nice but is about 200 dollar in my country (Norway).


PSU: I was thinking about making sure I am getting a good power supply as possible within limits. But I am kind of leaning to going with a case that can also fit an atx psu so that there will be more options.


I plan on reusing the H77 motherboard with the i5-3450 for this one.


Motherboard: Is it necessary with such an expensive motherboard when there will be no overclocking of any kind?



Thanks a lot for your suggestions!

quest_for_silence
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon May 16, 2016 2:32 am

Delirious wrote:I have had a look at the silverstone cases and I have to say the design of the Raven series is not for me. THE FTZ01 looks nice but is about 200 dollar in my country (Norway).

As a matter of fact I suggested the whole lineup, you missed to consider the ML07 and ML08 (particularly the first one should be relatively cheap in most markets).
Moreover, the Node 202 is rather bad, cooling wise (with a 60W GTX 750 it's hotter/louder than a Silverstone with a 200W GTX 980).

Delirious wrote:PSU: I was thinking about making sure I am getting a good power supply as possible within limits. But I am kind of leaning to going with a case that can also fit an atx psu so that there will be more options.

Any of the Silverstone accepts ATX PSUs, if needed (but no need with the proposed hardware).

Delirious wrote:I plan on reusing the H77 motherboard with the i5-3450 for this one.

So what? Maybe there's a misunderstanding: the suggested combo wasn't meant for the Fractal Node 202/Silverstone (FTZ01/ML07/ML08/RVZ01/RVZ01-E/RVZ02) rig.

Delirious wrote:Motherboard: Is it necessary with such an expensive motherboard when there will be no overclocking of any kind?

IMO for a mITX mobo you have to consider parts quality, fan control and correct socket placement: with the ASUS Z170i Pro you should have all at the same time.

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Wed May 18, 2016 1:14 pm

Allright I found a used ML07 in good condition and will probably buy it. (But am also still considering ml08) Unfortunately prices seems to be quite high in Norway at the moment because our currency is quite weak, oh well.

The ML07 seems like a good choice.

For a PSU the Silverstone SST ST-30SF is available but the price is not good. I am leaning towards the Corsair sf450 even though it is overkill with an gtx 750ti (might upgrade gpu later on)

About the cpu you certainly did not misunderstand me at all. And the i5 seems like a good option, but I was thinking about dropping down to the i3 6100 for my desktop.

The Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B is available. But will the extra cpu-cooler height of the ML07 give room for a even better cooler?


I see your point about the z170 motherboard, however I would really like to get something cheaper. Are there no good h110 or h170 boards available?
What about the msi z710 is it comparable to Asus.


Ram is 2x4 og 2x8 recommended? And I need to get ddr4 right?


Sorry for all the questions! Appreciate your help!


Edit:


Just realized that my plan for using the h77 motherboard in the htpc will not work very well because of the offset cpu socket placement of the board. This will make it impossible to use the scythe shuriken. So after some reading for my use I am pretty confident the i3 6100 in the htpc will do the trick.


Since it is impossible to find a z77 mini-itx motherboard for me. I will either find a cheap gpu for my desktop and move the gtx 750ti or I will have to buy a new gpu. But with the upcoming offerings from nvidia and amd I do not think it is a good time to "invest" in gpu.
Last edited by Delirious on Wed May 18, 2016 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Wed May 18, 2016 2:17 pm

ML07: i3 6100 has a 51W TDP...so, it doesn't take a lot to keep it cool. The Big Shuriken 2 Rev B would work fine. You could replace the slimline fan with a 25mm one for a total height of 71mm.

RAM: Yes, DDR4 for Skylake. 2 x 4GB is all you need given your applications. Sometime down the road, game memory needs might drive this higher...but I doubt it'll affect you for 1080p gaming.

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Wed May 18, 2016 2:33 pm

CA_Steve wrote:ML07: i3 6100 has a 51W TDP...so, it doesn't take a lot to keep it cool. The Big Shuriken 2 Rev B would work fine. You could replace the slimline fan with a 25mm one for a total height of 71mm.

RAM: Yes, DDR4 for Skylake. 2 x 4GB is all you need given your applications. Sometime down the road, game memory needs might drive this higher...but I doubt it'll affect you for 1080p gaming.

Thanks.


Seems like I will choose the Big Shuriken as a cpu cooler in either case. Not really decided on the case yet. The ml08 seems like a more refined design.


What about graphics card? Two options: Buy a new one for the htpc or move the gtx 750ti and find a used cheap on for my desktop (just to output 1440p).

quest_for_silence
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed May 18, 2016 3:04 pm

Delirious wrote:I see your point about the z170 motherboard, however I would really like to get something cheaper. Are there no good h110 or h170 boards available?

With cheaper boards like H110 ones, you would loose Wi-Fi & M.2, plus some SATA/SATAexpress, USB and Lan ports (H170 might be better in this respect, but relevant pricing also is higher), and power circuitry is lighter too: if you're willing to do so, it's up to your call.

Delirious wrote:What about the msi z710 is it comparable to Asus.

I can't say: it seems to have a good socket placement, though.

Delirious wrote:Ram is 2x4 og 2x8 recommended?

2x4 or 1x8 is ok for htpc, IMO.

Delirious wrote:And I need to get ddr4 right?

For Z170 boards, of course: some H170/H110 may use DDR3/DDR3L.

Delirious wrote:Just realized that my plan for using the h77 motherboard in the htpc will not work very well because of the offset cpu socket placement of the board.

You might try smaller coolers, like those Noctua 92mm top flow ones.

Delirious wrote:The ml08 seems like a more refined design.
Set aside aesthetics, the ML07 comes without fans.

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Thu May 19, 2016 6:57 am

I can get a used ml07 in very good condition for half the price of a new ml08. What do you guys recommend?

quest_for_silence
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu May 19, 2016 8:58 am

Delirious wrote:What do you guys recommend?
The one which you like more, all in all.

CA_Steve
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Thu May 19, 2016 11:52 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
Delirious wrote:What do you guys recommend?
The one which you like more, all in all.
+1.

As for the gfx card...next gen low to mid range cards won't be out until the fall. I'd move the 750 Ti over and get a cheap 1440p output card for the desktop. Something like the GT 710 with Dual DVI-D. It should handle your monitor, be decent for 2D apps and consume little power.

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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Thu May 19, 2016 12:16 pm

CA_Steve wrote: As for the gfx card...next gen low to mid range cards won't be out until the fall. I'd move the 750 Ti over and get a cheap 1440p output card for the desktop. Something like the GT 710 with Dual DVI-D. It should handle your monitor, be decent for 2D apps and consume little power.
...better yet...your integrated gfx should support DisplayPort 1.1 (max 2560x1600). Don't know if there's interoperability issues between the chipset and your monitor...but this is certainly the lowest cost option to try. :)

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Thu May 19, 2016 12:57 pm

CA_Steve:


Thanks I will look into the GT 710. And I will take your advice and rather move the 750 back to the desktop when its time to upgrade.

I managed to get a new free HP nvidia gt 630 2gb card from work today so I am planning to use that one in the meantime. The fan is small and quite noisy, but I will try to replace it with a 92mm fan and some cable ties.

Unfortunately the P8H77-I motherboard I have do not seem to work with that kind of resolution.


quest_for_silence:

The ML-08 looks good. Probably will go with that one.




So after considering most options I am thinking about keeping the desktop as is only swapping gpu and putting all the new parts in the htpc.



Case: Silverstone ML-08
PSU: Corsair SF450
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 1x8 or 2x8 gb
Motherboard: ASUS Z170I PRO GAMING
SSD: Samsung 850 250 GB
CPU: Intel i3 6100 or Intel i5 6500/6600K
CPU cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken rev. B.


Still taking suggestions, but I think I am certainly getting close.

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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Thu May 19, 2016 1:02 pm

RAM: I wouldn't give up the dual channel memory bandwidth performance bump vs single channel...

gfx: GT 630 - can't beat free.

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Thu May 19, 2016 1:28 pm

Good point about the dual-channel ram. Might as well go with the 2x8 gb then.

One thing I am curious about though is how this setup will work in a horizontal configuration. I have read the SPCR RVZ02 and I am getting a bit concerned. The GTX 750ti card is the Palit KalmX and is a PASSIVE card.


I realised now that I have nor mentioned that the card is passive.. No direct airflow might become a problem.

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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Thu May 19, 2016 2:11 pm

Delirious wrote:I realised now that I have nor mentioned that the card is passive.. No direct airflow might become a problem.
Yep, it might.
Palit GTX 750 Ti KalmX 2GB - Passive card
Techpowerup - card reaches 83C in test, where Nvidia starts to reduce Boost clocking...so, may require directed air for max performance. YMMV.
Kitguru - card reaches 56C gaming and 64C in Furmark in a well ventilated case with water cooled CPU.
Computer Base - worth reading for thermal analysis
Guru3D - 80C load temp; 55C with ventilation

quest_for_silence
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu May 19, 2016 8:11 pm

Delirious wrote:Good point about the dual-channel ram. Might as well go with the 2x8 gb then.

It's up to your call: I got the feeling that probably it's mostly a trade off between benchmarks (often pointless) and future expandability (often pointless).

Delirious wrote:One thing I am curious about though is how this setup will work in a horizontal configuration.

Rather bad, cooling-wise.

Delirious wrote:I realised now that I have nor mentioned that the card is passive.. No direct airflow might become a problem.

Such a card is not suitable to work in this kind of enclosure (Node 202 or ML08, any orientation).

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Fri May 20, 2016 7:10 am

What about the ml07 could it work with a passive card in horizontal position.

Are there any other (bigger) options that could work?

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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Fri May 20, 2016 9:47 am

The ML07 has 2 fan mounts directly above the gfx card and if the KalmX card has just a little bit of airflow it'll be fine. Check for clearances and add a low rpm fan or too. You won't hear the fans and your gfx card/system won't bake.

Where is the case going to sit? If it's going into an enclosed space or stacked with other stuff...then it's probably another discussion on airflow/ temps.

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Fri May 20, 2016 10:06 am

Thanks. The 2 120mm fans would than work as intakes fan right? Sucking in air for under the case. The case will be placed in quite an open tv bench. No sidewalls and quite a bit of clearance above it.

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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by CA_Steve » Fri May 20, 2016 10:44 am

Delirious wrote:Thanks. The 2 120mm fans would than work as intakes fan right? Sucking in air for under the case.
Yep. Just a slow moving (~500rpm) fan or two should keep the card cool. Again - check for clearances with your KalmX.

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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri May 20, 2016 7:46 pm

Delirious wrote:What about the ml07 could it work with a passive card in horizontal position.

IMO NO: did you check the 3 quoted SPCR reviews? Those enclosures did really suffer the horizontal placement, cooling-wise (and noise wise too).

Delirious wrote:Are there any other (bigger) options that could work?

Mainly the ones somehow similar to your Node 304: the various Fractal Core 500, Lian Li PC-Q10...

Delirious
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Re: New htpc/light gaming rig Node 202

Post by Delirious » Sat May 21, 2016 1:55 am

Hmm. I dont really se the point with those cases (for me) without putting them horizontally. Anyway seems that the gpu holder will not fit with the palit kalmx so this is a problem.

Anyway I was thinking about the Silverstone Sugo Range. The SG08 seems interesting for me. Also the SG13 and SG 06 seems interesting to me.


Also the rest of the Sugo series seems to have a max gpu width less than 14.5 cm. So this passive card is really the biggest problem here. Really makes it frustrating finding a small case.

However after reviewing the many case options in the market I have decided to use my current build with the Node 304 as a htpc. And rather go with a new case for the desktop.

Thank you both for many good inputs. Unfortunately I will have to revisit the smaller cases sometimes in the future. I will be making a new thread for the desktop build.

.

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