What to upgrade?

[Foggy]

Hi everyone,

Back in 2018, I built two identical rigs based on the great advice I received from this community. I have been very pleased with these rigs, which have held up well for my needs of browsing and playing Diablo 3 LoD.

However, with the release of Diablo 4, I am considering upgrading my rig to ensure a smooth and low-noise gaming experience. I recently played the beta for about 30 minutes, and while the game seemed fine, I did not check my FPS, and I believe my current setup falls in the lower than recommended range based on this page at PCgamerbenchmark: https://www.pcgamebenchmark.com/diablo-... requirements.

The release of Nvidia's RTX 4070 caught my eye, as it is in a price range I would consider, and it appears to be a significant upgrade from my current Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 from Asus.

Link to the RTX 470 card: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=550

Additionally, I thought that the RTX 4070 could fit with my theme of low noise emission due to its low power consumption, both while gaming and not gaming.

Specific questions regarding this upgrade I hope you can help me answer:

• Would I be right assuming I could upgrade my Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 to a newer card, like the Nvidia RTX 4070, without replacing my motherboard or power supply?

• Would my CPU become a bottleneck and thus defeat the purpose of upgrading the graphics card?

• Are there any other bottlenecks I should consider?

• Is the RTX 4070 a good card for low noise builds, or should I look elsewhere?

Please note that my monitor is 3440x1440 at 120 Hz with G-Sync enabled.

Here are the specifications of my current rig:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-8400 2.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($185.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital Green 5 TB 3.5" 5400 RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: Asus ROG STRIX GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB Video Card ($974.45 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define C ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($156.15 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Thermalright TY 73.6 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan: Thermalright TY 73.6 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan: Scythe Kaze Flex 120 66.47 CFM 120 mm Fan ($9.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Dell AW3418DW 34.1" 3440 x 1440 120 Hz Curved Monitor
Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB PLATINUM Wired Gaming Keyboard ($289.00 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Logitech G403 Prodigy Wired Optical Mouse ($58.75 @ Amazon)
Webcam: Logitech C922 Pro Stream HD Webcam ($84.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1918.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-21 10:39 EDT-0400

I am located in Norway, but I could possibly buy parts in the US as well.

Thank your for reading my post.

[Foggy]

After my initial post, I did some more research on the graphics cards.

Now I am thinking that both the RTX 4070 and the RTX 4070 ti would work. Ignoring the price difference for a bit, they both seem to be equally noisy/quiet. The RTX 4070 ti even seems to run a tad bit cooler as well. At least it did in a side-by-side comparison I found on YouTube. https://youtu.be/bErFaei1LOI

Is there an easy way to figure out if the card will fit on my motherboard? I know the MSI versions will not fit. They are too long. I have been looking at the ASUS TUF series, but I worry that the thickness of the card will be a problem. They are both listed as 3,2 slots, whereas the card I have now, the Asus ROG GTX 1080, is listed as 2 slots.

The cards I am looking at ...

Video Card: Asus TUF GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti 12 GB Video Card ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: *Asus TUF GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4070 12 GB Video Card ($649.99 @ ASUS)

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-8400 2.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($185.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital Green 5 TB 3.5" 5400 RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: Asus TUF GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti 12 GB Video Card ($849.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: *Asus TUF GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4070 12 GB Video Card ($649.99 @ ASUS)
Case: Fractal Design Define C ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($147.29 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Thermalright TY 73.6 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan: Thermalright TY 73.6 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan: Scythe Kaze Flex 120 66.47 CFM 120 mm Fan ($9.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Dell AW3418DW 34.1" 3440 x 1440 120 Hz Curved Monitor
Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB PLATINUM Wired Gaming Keyboard ($289.00 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Logitech G403 Prodigy Wired Optical Mouse ($57.00 @ Amazon)
Webcam: Logitech C922 Pro Stream HD Webcam ($84.99 @ B&H)
Total: $2433.23
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-23 10:03 EDT-0400

[Japanese Capacitor]

Let's start with your questions from first post:

1. You can upgrade your card for 4070 or 4070Ti without replacing your board and PSU.

2. Yes, your CPU will bottleneck such cards and resolution won't change it, there's no good way of calculating how much, but we can try to do it. Below example of how CPU behave with card similar to 4070, so if one bottlenecked, then 4070Ti wouldn't give you more frames. There's no 8400 here, but let's look at few percents stronger and shown on almost every graph 3900X: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd- ... -x/20.html Keep in mind that these results come from CPU test: CPU heavy games, CPU heavy areas in games, so ones more likely to increase CPU bottleneck. That means that in most games differences would be lower. That also means there are games where your CPU will already bottleneck 4070, so pairing it with 4070Ti won't give you even one fps more. On the other hand in most games it will look better, so in some 4070Ti would give you more than 4070, maybe even be fully utilized there. Keeping old CPU is mostly about being OK with fps it usually gives you. It just doesn't make sense if it's usually similar to what card noticeably slower would give.

My take would be trying chosen card with your CPU. Looking at GPU tests, so GPU-heavy, more commons scenarios, compared to 1080 4070 should be giving you ~150% more fps, 4070Ti ~200% more. If it usually doesn't, especially in demanding, not really high fps games (e.g all of these RTX games played with max details and without DLSS/FSR), just change this CPU.

3. Nope, but keep in mind that needing more than 16GB of ram for running smoothly modern games is close future.

4. Both 4070 and 4070 Ti are amazing cards for low noise gaming, because proportion of heat load they give confronted with coolers most of them have is great. Generally with whole Ada Lovelace such proportion is greatest ever.

About concerns from secound post, don't bother with your motherboard. You didn't list any PCIe cards sitting under GPU, so any GPU would fit in terms of thickness. But you have to look at GPU length: Define C is able to store ones long up to 315mm with front fan installed, so probably 340mm long assuming moving this fan up or down. ASUS TUF are overally great cards.

[Foggy]

Thank you for replying to my post Japanese Capacitor! I apologize for not getting back here sooner. Your answers are very helpful.

About the CPU being a bottleneck. I gather from your reply that to what extent my CPU will be a bottleneck, really depends on the games I play. Since I know I will be playing Diablo 4, and that is my chief reason for upgrading, it makes sense to look at that game. Blizzard has been kind enough to post some specs for various settings.

Medium (Recommended Requirements)

OS: 64-bit Windows® 10 version 1909 or newer
Processor: Intel® Core i5-4670K or AMD™ R3-1300X
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 970 or AMD Radeon™ RX 470
DirectX®: Version 12
Storage: SSD with 90 GB available space
Internet: Broadband Connection
* 1080p resolution, medium graphics settings, 60fps

High

OS: 64-bit Windows® 10 version 1909 or newer
Processor: Intel® Core i7-8700K or AMD Ryzen™ 2700X
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce® RTX 2060 or AMD Radeon™ RX 5700 XT
DirectX®: Version 12
Storage: SSD with 90 GB available space
Internet: Broadband Connection
* 1080p resolution, high graphics settings, 60fps

Ultra 4k

OS: 64-bit Windows® 10 version 1909 or newer
Processor: Intel® Core i7-8700K or AMD Ryzen™ 7 2700X
Memory: 32 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce® RTX 3080; NVIDIA GeForce® RTX 40 Series for fully supported DLSS3 or AMD Radeon™ RX 6800 XT
DirectX®: Version 12
Storage: SSD with 90 GB available space
Internet: Broadband Connection
* 4k resolution, ultra graphics settings, 60fps

Let’s assume I want to play Diablo 4 at the highest possible graphics settings and reach 120 fps at 3440 x 1440p. Looking at the high and ultra settings, I believe the listed CPU, the Intel® Core i7-8700K is fairly close to my i5-8400 in performance. Since both these CPUs are from 2017, I guess we can assume that Diablo 4 would not be considered a CPU intensive game. I am not quite sure what they mean by adding the * and 60 fps. Clearly, I want higher fps than that.

If Blizzard adds support for ray tracing, I take your comment about RTX-games to mean that my CPU would be more of a bottleneck if that were to happen.

Regardless, if am doing an upgrade, I feel I should take a look around and see what CPU would be a good match for the 4070 ti, and my system in general.

About RAM. I looks like I could add 16 GB more of the same RAM that I have for around $50 USD. But there might be better options now?

About the PCIe slots. There is an SSD adapter card occupying one of the PCIe slots (Silverstone SST-ECM20 PCIe card). Even though there are two M2 slots on the motherboard, of them is PCIe only. And both my M2 cards are SATA.

Thanks for reading my post.

[Japanese Capacitor]

I am not quite sure what they mean by adding the * and 60 fps. Clearly, I want higher fps than that.

And exactly here may be the catch connected to CPU bottleneck topic. The thing with the CPU bottleneck is, in any game given CPU is able to deliver some number of frames - whatever the resolution. Going higher with resolution won't make it delivering more. It will just reduce the number of frames GPU is capable of showing on the screen - when this number gets lower than what CPU can deliver, we come from CPU bottleneck to GPU bottleneck. The only thing we can assume looking at their requirements, is that 8700K will be capable of delivering 60 fps. It does it in High with 2060 and needs stronger GPU in 4K. In Medium they claim even older i5 and R3 can deliver 60 fps, so I suspect they further recommend stronger CPUs in case of them having more and stronger cores, what leads to smoother gameplay or rather having them not enough or weak makes smoothness suffering. For few years four-core CPUs, even strongest, newest i3s don't work well in many modern games, but are able to play them.

Generally, even assuming that 8400 will be able to give 120 fps in Diablo, I wouldn't expect it doing well in other recent and future games. Knowing how some latest additions to the market massacrate new cards, 8400 may happen to still be enough, but there will be also CPU heavy games when this CPU will just give you half the framerate modern CPUs can give. It's not bad if this half is around refresh rate of your monitor, but sometimes it will be like 40 fps. I link you CPU test with 3090, so card between 4070 and 4070 Ti. There is nicely many older CPUs and one well representing yours is Ryzen 3600:

https://www.purepc.pl/test-procesora-am ... ?page=0,20 Know that you can click on the graphs to change framerate numers into % :]


Let's leave RAM and PCIe addon topics for a moment. Generally DDR4 ram is cheap and GPUs are rather slim enough to not create here a problem.

[Foggy]

Thank you for the link to the CPU test. Very informative. It's easy to see that the CPU has a significant impact on the games they tested. It is also quite clear that my CPU is waaaay behind

I found a video on YouTube showing resources used playing Diablo 4.https://youtu.be/_XNpsG6Y8So Key takeaways for me include

• His CPU usage seems very low, but he has a better CPU than me, AND nothing is really going on in the game he is recording

• More importantly, the game uses quite a bit of RAM (27 in 4K). 16 GB seems low now, as you already said.

• And finally, it is probably possible for me to upgrade my rig to something that will actually play this game

So now what? After looking at compatible CPUs for my motherboard, I've become less optimistic about keeping it. From what I understand I will only be able to upgrade to gen 9? Gen 9 does not seem all that compelling to be honest. Getting a better CPU seems to include getting a new motherboard.

Thanks!

[Japanese Capacitor]

Before I answer you, treat results coming from linked PurePC's CPU test as worse case scenarios. Goal of CPU testing is finding and showing such to increase differences between CPUs. In most games it would look better, so differences between CPUs would be lower. Just different for any other game, so it's reasonable to treat CPU tests results as your baseline expectations. If you don't accept your CPU bottlenecking the card to 40-50fps level of performance, but you would be fine with one giving, let's say, 80 fps - this CPU is your baseline upgrade. But keep in mind that you want your CPU as strong as possible if you plan to upgrade your card in the future - the stronger CPU you take today, the more frames it will give today and the stronger GPU it will be able to not bottleneck in given resolution.

I found the video showing exactly your rig playing DIV, best graphic settings, but in 16:9 FullHD. Just typed in searchbar ,,Diablo 4 8400":

https://youtu.be/lxGA4etidX4?t=3

With such rig he hovers around 120 fps during gameplay, it gets lower during cutscenes or zoomed moments, but when you don't control moves, it's not noticeable. He's GPU bottlenecked (GPU usage keeps close to 100%), so CPU is not a problem and won't be for you aiming such results. 3440x1440 would cut from his framerate 30% or to get the same result you need card 30% stronger than 1080: RTX 2070-2070Super, from newer ones 3060 Ti would be even stronger. There're are also AMD Radeons if you don't mind their tendency of causing more problems with drivers than Nvidia. His RAM usage keeps around 12000MB, but looking at video you linked, you will need more than that in your resolution. On the other hand RAM is stinky topic, because looking at such number you don't know how much of it is really used - the more ram you have, the more system uses, but not so really, not like it needs and it benefits something.

So now the question is, do you want to upgrade this rig to play Diablo better or you plan to play also other modern games? As you can see, it's not much needed to give you 120fps in your resolution (30% stronger GPU + maybe 2x8 GB of RAM), but new games will kill your CPU and 8GB card like 1080 or even 3060 Ti, so Diablo-upgrade won't be enough there.

[Foggy]

Nice find with that video with my build.

Question: Do you think the numbers in these videos look different if there were 4 players on the screen rather than one, and they all were doing 5 or 10 times as many things? Because that is what the game will look at once we get to the end game - where we spend most time.

[Japanese Capacitor]

Hard to say. E.g. online shooters with maaany players like Battlefield series get harder for CPUs, more likely to show CPU bottleneck, but hard to say how much there is framerate players of such games usually aim and how much is amount of players (it goes up even to 130 players if I'm not wrong). But generally if you plan to play only DIV, just see for yourself and then decide if upgrade is even needed. If you plan to play olso other modern games, no need to wait for anything, because discussed cards are fresh, so I wouldn't expect getting anything better for the price for a longer while (except for sure upcoming AMD's offerings) and there's nothing interesting on horizon also in CPU regard.

[Foggy]

So now the question is, do you want to upgrade this rig to play Diablo better or you plan to play also other modern games? As you can see, it's not much needed to give you 120fps in your resolution (30% stronger GPU + maybe 2x8 GB of RAM), but new games will kill your CPU and 8GB card like 1080 or even 3060 Ti, so Diablo-upgrade won't be enough there.

I doubt that we will be playing anything else. We built these two rigs to play Divinity Orginal sin 2, have a smother experience with Diablo 3 and just have a quieter environment. Before that we just had noisy gaming laptops to play Diablo 3.

Right now we just play Diablo 3, and I doubt we will be playing anything else than Diablo 4 in the say, the next two years.

[Japanese Capacitor]

If so, I would wait for DIV being realeased. Final version should work somehow better than it works now - maybe even well enough to satisfy you without doing any upgrade. Upgrade now makes sense only if you don't like current performance and just don't want to wait.

[Foggy]

If so, I would wait for DIV being realeased. Final version should work somehow better than it works now - maybe even well enough to satisfy you without doing any upgrade. Upgrade now makes sense only if you don't like current performance and just don't want to wait.

This might be good advice. However, knowing myself, I am thinking that I likely will end up wanting to do some upgrades. Now that I have spent so much time on this already, I decided to flesh out the "big" upgrade alternative. And I should do a modest version - more along the lines you lay out above.

For the "big" version I have:

• replaced the CPU

• replaced the motherboard

• added 16 GB of the same RAM

• replaced the graphics card with the RTX4070.

I was looking at the RTX 4070 ti, but based on what you are saying, the 4070 ti is just overkill for DIV? Seems like maybe even the 4070 is overkill right now.

Such and upgrade should come in at less than USD 1.300 in the US and less than USD 1500, if I get the parts in Norway.


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13400F 2.5 GHz 10-Core Processor ($199.00 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($195.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: *G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital Green 5 TB 3.5" 5400 RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: *Asus TUF GAMING OC GeForce RTX 4070 12 GB Video Card ($649.99 @ ASUS)
Case: Fractal Design Define C ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($156.90 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Thermalright TY 73.6 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan: Thermalright TY 73.6 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan: Scythe Kaze Flex 120 66.47 CFM 120 mm Fan ($9.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Dell AW3418DW 34.1" 3440 x 1440 120 Hz Curved Monitor
Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB PLATINUM Wired Gaming Keyboard ($289.00 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Logitech G403 Prodigy Wired Optical Mouse ($76.98 @ Amazon)
Webcam: Logitech C922 Pro Stream HD Webcam ($91.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1868.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-05-01 08:04 EDT-0400

[Japanese Capacitor]

I understand you - it's just better to have stronger, nicer computer, because it will always handle anything with better style or be able to handle more. Even in terms of quietness of operation we can make some progress here.

Let's start with DIV thing and assume that 8400 won't be here bottleneck even with stronger cards and numbers shown on linked video with rig like yours are well representative. Guy usually had 120fps, so you in 3440x1440 would have then 80fps. So with only swapping the card to 4070 you should have 200 fps and with 4070Ti 240fps. So these cards are waaay overkill for your monitor and DIV.

For playing other, modern games CPU upgrade is definitely needed. 13400 is nice baseline CPU. Worth mentioning are Ryzen CPUs due to AMD being known for long support of their motherboards - according to past and what they promised with AM5 (which according to past is believable) you will be able to use board bought today with few next generations of their CPUs. The more powerful card you plan to upgrade your 4070/70Ti in the future, the more likely it will need CPU change due to CPU bottleneck, so option may get useful and save you buying new board and DDR5 ram (which you will buy today ) On the other hand my opinion about Ryzens is them happening causing various problems/not working right more often than Intels (just looking at amout of such news coming from time to time) and even now there's in progress probably their biggest drama with Ryzen 7000 burning themselves and motherboards. Here you will be covered by warranty and problem should be solved not long from now, so it may be only spectacular example

CPU cooler: Mugen 5 is definitey worth keeping and great match for 13400 range CPU. Just you will need mounting kit for new platform. If we talk about socket 1700, I know directly from Scythe that they sell it for 8 euros and send via German Postal Service. Alternatively you may be able to get one from some local retailer. This thing is known as SCMK-1700B. Your Mugen has similar name (probably SCMG-5000) and should be listed among compatibile ones.

In terms of ram you can add ram similar to yours. DDR5 can be noticeably faster, but ram difference is only visible during CPU-bottlenecked scenarios, so in games in general less often: https://ithardware.pl/testyirecenzje/pa ... 976-3.html

If we talk about specific component choices, like motherboard model; ram or GPU, it would be best if you linked me some stores you plan to buy from in case of me seeing prices, so being able to calculate what is worth buying. I don't know how it's in Norway, but e.g in Poland we rather don't use Amazon (my newest computer has only GPU bought there, because they had the lowest price), but we prefer big, reputable polish stores selling online or even stationary and having just anything you could want like https://www.morele.net/ or https://www.x-kom.pl/

[Foggy]

Well, this is embarrassing. It turns out that my current process is i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, not the i5-8400 that I listed initially I am terribly sorry.

There are some differences between the two: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 3941vs3939

I discovered that I had listed the wrong CPU when I was trying to compare my current processor with the i5-13400F.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... vsm1990711

I don't know exactly how to read the numbers from userbenchmark.com, but the overall score between my current CPU and the i5-13400F is just 16%. I am sure there is more to it, but it does not seem like a huge upgrade. So maybe I need to upgrade to a more powerful CPU.

However, talking to the wife, she likes what you assume here:

Let's start with DIV thing and assume that 8400 won't be here bottleneck even with stronger cards and numbers shown on linked video with rig like yours are well representative. Guy usually had 120fps, so you in 3440x1440 would have then 80fps. So with only swapping the card to 4070 you should have 200 fps and with 4070Ti 240fps. So these cards are waaay overkill for your monitor and DIV.

She gets a say, because she does a lot of the PC building

On a more serious note, we don't really think we will be playing anything else than DIV. We like the idea of just upgrading the GPU and getting some more RAM and try to play with that. IF the CPU turns out to be a bottleneck OR we find a new AAA game we would like to play, we would like to go ahead and change the motherboard and the CPU etc.

To keep this option of bigger upgrade in the near future a viable option for us, I think it makes sense to get a car that is at least 4070 or 4070 ti. It makes very little sense to me to upgrade to a 2080/90/, 3070 card or similar. We also like it that the 4070 and the 4070 ti seem to be on the quieter side. We hope they are less noisy than our GTX 1080.

Does this make sense to you?
Does the new information about my current CPU strengthen the assumption that our CPU will not be a bottleneck for DIV?

I am sorry for all the back and forth here, but this is a process!

[Japanese Capacitor]

Don't worry with this CPU mistake - you just remembered wrong And it changes nothing. Both are similar performers and both are bad compared to modern CPUs - 8600K in games is ~5% faster, so still fastest modern CPUs with cards you plan to buy would be up to 100% faster. On the other hand, thanks to guy from the youtube with 8400 we already know that it should be fine with DIV. And if you want to compare CPUs, it's best to not look at benchmarks, but search for reviews comparing given ones in scenarios interesting you like for sure gaming performance.

Once again purepc helps and once again look at R5 3600 as it being comparable to your CPU:
https://www.purepc.pl/test-procesorow-i ... ?page=0,20

About card, I think going with 4070 or even 4070 Ti is a good idea. First thing is they having 12 GB of VRAM - I would consider it as a baseline for modern games now and hopefully for few years. Maybe you will happen wanting to play some. Staying with Nvidia and not-used cards, there's only 3060 having 12GB too, but it's not much stronger than 1080 to the point of being stupid idea. And you can always spend this "too much fps" on things like resolution scaling - games usually have in graphics settings such slider and it makes the image crispier for the price of fps.

About 4070 vs 4070Ti choice, adding here your needs and expectations, I would rather recommend you 4070. You don't seem needing additional performance 4070Ti has and 4070 consumes noticeably less power, so needs less cooling/noise from your case and lower power draw is less noticeable from room-heating standpoint.

[Foggy]

Like everyone I suppose, I get frustrated with the choice between the 4070 and the 4070 ti cards. Going by your advice and looking at actual game play rather than benchmarks I found a few videos on the 4070 ti card. This guy on YouTube plays the game with a 4070 ti card. It seems totally fine. I noticed that he dropped right below 120 fps at around 3:50 https://youtu.be/Xcxx0NTHDf8?t=227 but for the most part he is comfortably above 120, as expected.

This guy also has some comparisons between different cards. https://youtu.be/n0c428uJQNk?t=26. He claims the 1% lows are 128 fps with the 4070 ti card. No data on the 4070 card and DIV. I don't think it was out at the time of the beta.

Right now, I can get the 4070 ti for "only" USD 130 more than then 4070 in my country. https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakompone ... forelse_no I don't think I've seen this card at this price so far. It's the ASUS GeForce RTX 4070 Ti TUF GAMING 12GB, non OC version. Which is just a good thing for me.

This YouTube guy said he lowered the power to the CPU for only a small drop in performance as well. https://youtu.be/fiinE3iujCg?t=417, claiming ~94% performance at 200 watts.

I have to admit, I am tempted to jump on this offer. In terms on USD this price equals roughly 790 before tax. Keep in mind, vat/tax here is 25%. This Asus TUF card should be a good card, right?

If you want to look around at what’s on offer here, I included a few links to the Asus TUF cards below. Page is in Norwegian though, to get to €, divide by 11,64.

4070 https://prisguiden.no/produkt/v/W4ClAyk3vdo?g=1
4071 ti https://prisguiden.no/produkt/asus-tuf- ... 2gb-620404
4071 ti OC https://prisguiden.no/produkt/asus-asus ... bZEALw_wcB

Here is a link to all cards with 4070 and 4070 ti. https://prisguiden.no/kategorier/grafik ... 04070%20Ti I am basically comfortable buying from all these stores, but the bigger stores are Elkjøp, Power and Komplett (online only).

[Japanese Capacitor]

Don't suggest with numbers of fps seen in such videos if stronger CPU than yours used. E.g. SlouRTX used 13600K and stats shown on the screen show he's GPU bottlenecked here (GPU usage close to 100%). That means that his CPU is able to produce more frames than GPU can show on the screen, so he gets full performance this GPU can give. That also means that he could pair this CPU with even stronger GPU to get more fps. Hard to say how it would be with your CPU - CPU test in DIV needed That's why I advised you to start upgrading with buying new GPU and seeing for yourself.

One additional thing about having more fps than needed: let's say that you block fps on 120 fps, but your card is able to give you way more and never falls below 120 fps. Something like this will give you gameplay as smooth as it just can be. The thing is, first you need also having CPU which is able to never fall below 120 fps, so another point for my advice of just buying the card first

About performance vs power draw, it's typical for modern GPUs, so I wouldn't be surprised if numbers shown on this video being legit.

In terms of models of given cards, TUF are ones overally good. If you can, go ahead with non-OC model. They are unnoticably slower, but tend to cost way less than OC and apart of that are the same cards.

[Foggy]

Great!

I will try to get those cards then

I aim for smooth.

[Foggy]

Looking at RAM now. For this build with the new GPU, is there anything to be gained from choosing anything else than what I have, as in higher speed or even more than 2x8 gb?

Memory: *G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($40.99 @ Amazon)

Back in 2017 when planned this build, CA_Steve wrote about RAM:
"RAM: The default speed for the Coffee Lake memory controller is 2666 (every gen seems to creep up a step). You do have a Z chipset...so you can also go beyond 2666 if you wanted to. There's an incremental benefit to min frame rates in gaming going up in the 3000 range....but really, no reason to go overboard."

Would this change if I later this summer realize I need a new CPU? I understand that getting a DDR5 motherboard would make my current RAM useless, but I could get a motherboard and a CPU that work with DDR4 as well.

[Japanese Capacitor]

Faster RAM gives more fps, but only when CPU bottlenecked (I linked ithardware test above). Not enough RAM degrades smoothness. This is how things work, but in terms of DIV I would wait for this game to launch and look for some performance reviews. E.g. there're videos from DIV showing it consumes surprisingly much RAM and GPU's VRAM, but hard to say how much it then really uses and how much it needs to play smoothly - there's the thing with RAM and VRAM and that's why we need to wait for some serious tests to arrive.

[Japanese Capacitor]

I noticed nice promo, maybe it will come in handy: https://www.techpowerup.com/308381/diab ... ilable-now

[Foggy]

Thanks. I just saw that today myself actually. Too late for me though. I already bought the card, and more importantly, I got the game a long time ago

Nice deal though.

[Japanese Capacitor]

It's a nice deal, especially given that bundling games with GPUs is not common anymore and DIV is quite expensive for pc game. Or at least in Poland where new AAA games cost ~230 PLN for boxes and DIV is 315 PLN for digital Standard Edition from battle.net. You already got this card? Tell me about your impressions :]

[Foggy]

Already bought the card, I should say.

Have not had time to install it. I might give it a go this weekend. Not sure I can wait for the wife to get back from the States. Did I mention, she is the mechanic in the family

[Japanese Capacitor]

It's best to do it as soon as possible in case of having more days to test it before return period ends. And test it in more games, especially high-fps ones, to see if it's not too bad in terms of coilwhine.

[Foggy]

I'll try to get it done tomorrow.

I wanted to document the improvement so I recorded playing DIV with my current setup.

Ultra settings https://youtu.be/c4dMfNBsD9s
High settings https://youtu.be/-73XSenOwEQ

[Japanese Capacitor]

Your CPU and GPU work as they should with both presets - GPU keeps close to 100% usage, so you get as much frames as it can give and your CPU would be able to give some more. But for such testing purposes, keep testing area and scenario as much the same as you can. Save game somewhere, test, then change settings, load and try to do exactly the same (go the same way, fight the same enemies etc). That's why some games have built-in benchmarks in case of scene being always the same as possible, so only thing affecting fps are graphic settings. When searching for good testing areas, look for ones where GPU usage permanently drops below 95-100% - I don't think such will happen with 1080, but you want to know if they happen with your new card. These are the ones where CPU limits your GPU (or just game being broken what it seems e.g. during cutscences tanking performance more than any gameplay). Maybe try heavier fights with as many enemies as possible - a lot of characters/objects usually tank CPU. We already know that new GPU should give you 150/200% more fps, so now testing should be about seeing if your CPU can handle it in DIV or whatever you plan to play.

[Foggy]

I got one card replaced. Once I figured out what to plug into the adapter, it was easy.

Turns out that there is plenty room under the RTX 4071ti so my PCI M2 card could stay in place.

The card is nice and quiet. Much more so than the GTX 1080. I mean, it does not even compare. I consider this a huge upgrade in terms of comfort.

I recorded a few more videos in DIV. The change is significant.

High settings https://youtu.be/5VDE3ybOpP8
Ultra settings https://youtu.be/plnWgR-Cv2g?t=31

It does look like the CPU max out from time to time though.

[Japanese Capacitor]

Make sure that adapter plugs (on both ends) are plugged as much as they can be. There was a drama recently with connectors burning due to people plugging them almost fully - what they thought was fully. When plugging with brute force won't plug it further for sure, then it's fully plugged :]

Looking at your videos, your card is all the time not fully utilized (that's also why it is so cool and quiet). Options are three:
- buggy area where everybody have card underutilized (like it happens during cut scenes)
- CPU bottlenecking the card
- framerate limter set to 116 fps. This 116 fps looks suspicious to me due to setting framerate limiter few frames under max refresh rate being popular. I didn't notice you have some set in game settings, but check Nvdia Control Panel. It will be on long list in 3D settings management. Or maybe you have other software providing such limiter.

[Foggy]

Make sure that adapter plugs (on both ends) are plugged as much as they can be. There was a drama recently with connectors burning due to people plugging them almost fully - what they thought was fully. When plugging with brute force won't plug it further for sure, then it's fully plugged :]

I am aware. I think I have it in all the way I actually thought I had everything done, closed everything up and then it did not work. Turned out I was missing the +2 on the second 6+2 PCIe cable from the PSU. I would like to loose the harness, so reached out to Seasonic asking them if they have a cable I can use to so I can ditch the harness. Not very hopeful. They made one such cable, but the datasheet says it can't be used with Focus Gold, which is what I have

For anyone else reading this wondering how to connect to the harness; you need to plug in 2x 6+2 PCIe cables to the harness. Compared to my GTX 1080 this is 2 more. My old card took 6+2 in one slot, and 6 in the other slot. All these numbers refers to number of pins in the harness from the PSU.

- framerate limter set to 116 fps. This 116 fps looks suspicious to me due to setting framerate limiter few frames under max refresh rate being popular. I didn't notice you have some set in game settings, but check Nvdia Control Panel. It will be on long list in 3D settings management. Or maybe you have other software providing such limiter

I have mine limited at 120 fps in the 3D settings. I put that in since the game fried several GPUs in the first test. I just increased it to 125, made no difference. Still capped at 116 it seems like. Should I try to remove the cap or put it higher?