Foxconn NF4K8MC-ERS (mAtx, 939)

[Pooh-Bah]

I just installed a Foxconn NF4K8MC-ERS motherboard. This is a micro-atx socket 939 motherboard with PCIe that is pretty nicely suited for an HTPC. I believe it is only the second matx 939 board to become available. The ATI-based MSI was the first.

I can confirm the following:

Cool and quiet works perfectly - my A64 3000+ throttles down to 5x200 and 1.1 volts.

Speedfan is supported and fan control seems to work on at least the cpu fan. I'm not sure why the other fans don't seem to work with the fan control but they are monitored.

The Nforce4 chipset is actively cooled by a VERY loud fan. The video card is also located right above the chipset, making a simple replacement impossible. I'll probably try modding a passive chipset heatsink.

Overclocking is possible with bus speed adjustments up to 250mhz. I have not tested this. There are no voltage adjustments in the bios.

Overall, I'm pretty satisfied so far. I'd like to hear other opinions if anybody has this MB.


** 4/25/05 update **
Passive Zalman chipset heatsink is installed. I added a small low-speed fan too. The NF4 gets very hot without some form of active cooling. I'm now running the 3000+ at 223mhz bus with 1:1 memory (3200+ speed). I think my cheap ram is maxed out but the CPU has more room. The lack of memory voltage adjustments is probably a limiting factor. **
** End 4/25/05 update **


** 5/21/05 update **
The board has been running 24/7 since installation in my MCE HTPC and never crashes. It also runs very cool and is inaudible from more than 2 feet away. After a miserable MCE installation experience due to the crappy Nvidia 71.84 video card drivers for MCE (avoid them at all costs), the system is now perfectly stable and suspends and resumes nicely (S1 only so far). I also have zero problems with it coming out of suspend mode to record TV shows.

The chipset temp with my cheesy fan modification stays below 45c at full load (Prime95). Without the fan on it, the chipset reaches over 61.5c while running the Prime95 torture test. This higher temp is with just the gold Zalman passive chipset cooler (223mhz bus, ambient=27c, cpu=58c). The chipset fan noise level is extremely low and I would suggest that anybody with a NF4 chipset consider a minimal fan if they change the stock chipset cooler for something quieter.
** End 5/21/05 update **

[blozza]

I'll be setting up my new matx system tonight on the NF4K8MC-ERS, the only consern was foxconn recommends no cpu higher than a 3500. I've got a nice new 3800+ venice to install, I really had my heart set on a matx system but motherboard choices are very limited at the moment for socket 939 on a nf4 or Ati 200 xpress chipset, the MSI board you mention has mixed reviews and no overclocking.

so if I fry anything using a 3800+ I'll let you know.

[Pooh-Bah]

I'm sure it will work fine. It's probably just that the 3800+ wasn't out when they printed the manuals. Is this for a HTPC?

[blozza]

mainly as a gamer PC.

you are probably right never the less I cancelled the motherboard order, I'm now waiting on a ECS RS480-M mATX ati xpress 200 chipset motherboard should be out in the UK next week. you lucky lot in the US can get one already from newegg http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6813135191

I figured I may as well get this one if I was unsure over the foxconn & cpu issue, this mboard better come in stock soon I've got all the other parts sitting on the bench ready to go in, its gonna drive me nuts!!!

AMD 64 (939) 3800+ venice
1Gb (2x512) corsair CL2.5 DDR3500
HDD 160GB (sata)
NEC DVDR/W
ATI X800XL (pci-e)
Antec Aria case
no Motherboard (as of yet)

[vdorta]

The video card is also located right above the chipset, making a simple replacement impossible. I'll probably try modding a passive chipset heatsink. ** 4/25/05 update - passive Zalman chipset heatsink is installed. I added a small low-speed fan too. The NF4 gets very hot.**

Thanks for the review. I am also thinking about ordering this board and replacing the NB fan with a Zalman NB47J (the tall one). Could you give more details on how you solved the potential graphics card-NB cooler conflict? Can you measure the space available? What is the maximum card length that would fit?

There is a review here, the guy brought 230MHz out of the board.

Regarding the other 939 mATX boards, the MSI seems to have problems and the ECS is very similar to the MSI; on top of that, the ECS seems to have its own potential problems with double-sided graphics card and the NB cooler. The ECS manual says nothing about overclocking either.

[Gholam]

Interesting. I have this board's bigger cousin (NF4UK8AA-8EKRS) running in the lab, and C'n'Q doesn't fully work there - the multiplier drops to 5x, but the voltage stays at 1.47v. Winchester 3200+ idles at 40C passive this way, with a cheap Foxconn cooler (really similar to the one bundled with box version), in a closed case (Coolermaster Cavalier 4).

[Pooh-Bah]

vdorta,

I used the smaller gold Zalman heatsink for the chipset but the big blue on should work fine. I had to remove a few pins but this is very easy since the aluminum is extremely easy to bend/break with pliers. I think I ended up removing four pins. You could also just bend them out of the way. I wouldn't let the video card length stop you from changing the chipset heatsink but be VERY careful when installing the new heatsink. I would also suggest a very quiet fan since this NF4 gets incredibly hot. I just wrapped an old 60mm fan with zip-ties to keep it from catching on anything, then laid it up against the Zalman heatsink and used a speed controller to make it run verrry slow. Sure, this is the lazy way to go but it works perfect and makes almost no noise. I have measured the chipset heatsink temp from the top with a temp gun and it stays near 43c at full load.

About MSI and ECS boards, I have had some bad luck with MSI so I tend to avoid them. The ECS boards tend to be very good in my experience for a "set it and forget it" computer. If you plan on changing components in and out, and maybe doing a little overclocking, I would not suggest an ECS board except for maybe their extreme version(s).

blozza,

Your 3800+ will work fine in the Foxconn board. The following is a quote from the motherboard manual (http://www.foxconnchannel.com/pdf/NF4K8 ... -05-05.pdf) which clearly shows the 3800+ on the list. Also, just because a CPU isn't on this type of list does NOT mean that it wont work. The MSI is also reported to be a good board but it has no overclocking potential at all. The MSI does have onboard coaxial SPDIF output and 3 PCI slots where the Foxconn has no onboard SPDIF and only 2 PCI.

CPU Qualified Vendor List
The following table lists the CPUs that have been tested and qualified for use
with this motherboard.
Vendor Description
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
AMD Athlon 64 3800+
AMD Athlon 64 4000+
AMD Athlon 64 FX-55
AMD Athlon 64 FX-53

[vdorta]

Thanks for the info Pooh-Bah, I think I'll take my chances with the MSI unless the new Gigabyte GA-K8A480M-9 appears soon and delivers on the promises. I don't intend to overclock.

[yeha]

just thought i'd post a little document i've been updating with new matx socket-939 boards. a dash (-) is somethign i'm sure of, a (?) is pending confirmation:

what i want in a motherboard:
- micro-atx
- socket 939
- pci-express 16x and 1x
- vga/tv out
- hd audio
- sata ii and ncq
- northbridge not behind pci-e slot
- firewire
- oc controls

msi rs480m2 lacks:
- pci-express 1x
- hd audio
- sata ii and ncq
- oc controls

ecs rs 480-m lacks:
- pci-express 1x
- hd audio
- sata ii and ncq
- oc controls

colorful ati xpress 200g lacks:
- hd audio
- sata ii and ncq

eqs m56k9-mlf lacks:
- hd audio
- sata ii and ncq
- oc controls

asus k8s-mx lacks:
- socket 939
- pci-express 16x
- tv out
- hd audio
- sata ii and ncq
- firewire

asrock 939a8x-m lacks:
- pci-express 16x and 1x
- sata ii and ncq
- vga/tv out
- firewire

gigabyte ga-k8a480m-9 lacks:
? oc controls
- firewire
- tv out

jetway a200gdms lacks:
- socket 939
? oc controls
? firewire
? tv out

[JimK]

Thanks yeha,

That saves me a bit of time. Now, if you had only been interested in GB LAN there would be nothing for me to lookup

[yeha]

all my hopes are pinned on the gigabyte board - i can ignore the lack of firewire and tv out, but it's the lack of matx overclocking boards that's killing me. i'm trying to avoid nforce4 boards where possible, but it looks like i'll end up with one eventually.

manufacturers just aren't willing to build overclocking boards around anything bar the nvidia chipset. no one knows why, but it sure is depressing

[andyb]

I have just built my 3rd system using the MSI RS480M2-IL motherboard.

It's a good one, and firmly in place to be my standard users 939pin motherboard of choice.

In my personal experience the following motherboard manufactures suck arse (a lot), and I wound never recommend them to anyone I liked.

ECS - Crap boards, poor performance (real terms), flaky, NO support at all.
Jetway - Like ECS, except worse.
PC Chips - Like ECS but random stuff just doesnt work right.

My questions:

1, Do you actually NEED PCI-E 1x slots.???
2, Do you actually NEED to overclock.???
3, Do you actually NEED SATA-II support.???

I totally agrre that the RS480M2 SHOULD have gigabit LAN on it, if it did it would almost be perfect.

Other than that, I really like the board, it's not as picky about PSU's as my K8N-NEO or NEO2 boards, but is a little more picky about RAM, (doesnt like my Kingston C2.5 DDR400 Samsung RAM), but works fine with a variety of others.

As far as your WANT's are concerned, there doesnt look like anything exists, however something has to give, is it going to be the form factor, or the PCI-E 1x AND the overclocking AND the SATA-II.

Andy

[Pooh-Bah]

My answers:

1) Not currently, since there aren't any 1x cards available (that I know of). I sure would love a PCIe-1x sound card to free up one PCI slot. The lack of digitial audio out on the Foxconn is a problem for me.
2) Yes! Overclock is such a misnomer. We should refer to it as "re-bin-ing." Any A64 3000+ can do 2ghz or better, even if you lower the voltage below stock.
3) No. New I/O interfaces are typically released long before the old interface becomes a limiting factor. Does anybody here actually believe that we are hitting the wall with SATA-I? Most tests still show little or no difference between even PATA and SATA.


Yeha - why would you avoid Nf4 boards?

[Tibors]

1) Not currently, since there aren't any 1x cards available (that I know of). I sure would love a PCIe-1x sound card to free up one PCI slot. The lack of digitial audio out on the Foxconn is a problem for me.

Sorry if I am dense, but I don't get this one. The choice is a PCIe-1x plus two PCI or no PCIe-1x plus three PCI. Now you say you want the first choice, because there might surface a PCIe-1x soundcard so you can free up a PCI slot. Net result in either case is two PCI slots usable for other things. But the first choice is not possible yet.

[Pooh-Bah]

You lost me on that one Tibors.

My NF4K8MC-ERS has two PCI and one PCIe-1x slots. My two PCI slots are taken by a TV card and a sound card. The 1x card is still free. If I had a PCIe-1x sound card, I could install an HDTV card. The 1x slot is currently a total waste.

[Tibors]

Ah, I hadn't considered you already owned a board.

You answered the questions from andyb, which to me look more a reaction to yeha's list than to the original post. When one is still in the choosing phase, the requirement of a PCIe-1x is strange based on your answer. But if you already have a board with one, then wanting to have a use for it is quite normal.

[yeha]

pcie-1x:
for the same reason as firewire - i can see a realistic future use for it based on my past habits (audio work, video capture/editing). many future cards such as hdtv or audio will use this slot, though it is one of the least important things on my list. much, much more important is..

overclocking:
i have been an overclocker ever since i learned i could mod a mac ii-si to increase the cpu speed from 25 mhz to 33mhz (mac ii-ci/cx speed?). i do not have a huge amount of money handy, so i always buy cheap parts that are capable of high overclocks. i am a very performance hungry user, i do a lot of programming, a lot of batch media encoding (audio and video) and play quite a few games too. there's a big difference between taking 6 hours to process a video (1.8ghz) and taking 4 hours (2.7ghz), especially when there are other things i'd like to be working on and haven't the luxury of dual cpus or a dedicated media-encoding server. the penny-pincher in me is horrified at spending $280 on a 2.2ghz cpu when the $140 1.8ghz version can be clocked up to 2.7ghz. i will never, ever purchase a cpu, motherboard or video card for myself which isn't capable of being overclocked. i just don't have the money to spend on faster (at stock) parts, and even if i hit the jackpot i'd still be an overclocker because of the fun and challenge of it. i've been fascinated with computers since i was a child, it's why i started programming in c and assembly and i can't resist a chance to push a machine to its limits, be it software optimisation or hardware tweaking. otherwise it's just a dull grey box for me.

sata-ii:
see pcie-1x, it'd be a very nice thing to have (considering that most sata-ii southbridges also incorporate hd audio, which while not a huge amount better than ac'97 is still useful for my purposes) and if possible i'd rather have it than not.

nforce4 chipsets are too hot for my liking, especially since i'll be running the htt at around 300 mhz. that'll bump up the heat output by 50% or more, which is a bit difficult to cool passively. one reason i love the 90nm amd chips so much is that i can bump one up to extremely high speeds without breaking 50 watts, all with the (amd or via) chipset using less than 7 or 8. the nforce4 seems to push out 12 or more watts at stock speeds, up to 20 or more when overclocked. no thanks.

i am willing to bend my wants quite a bit, but overclocking is more important to me than anything except excessive heat output. anything. what would i settle for, if i needed to?

- socket 939
- micro atx
- highly overclockable
- passive chipset
- pci-e 16x

that's it. the foxconn fails in both the highly overclockable point (htt has maxed out for many users at ~250) and the chipset choice and placement - passive cooling is difficult even at stock speeds. the next most important want is a tie between onboard vga (great for diagnostics) and firewire (chews up a whole card otherwise). hd audio and sata-ii are distantly next on the list. gigabit ethernet has little appeal to me.

[andyb]

I can see your requirements are not easily net Yeha.

However, this is Pooh Bah's post (unless you are one and the same).

Pooh Bah, have you thought any more about the various responses.


Andy

[Pooh-Bah]

This sure has become an interesting thread. I really don't mind that most of the responses pertain to the MSI board and not the Foxconn. We all know that micro-atx is all about compramise and neither of these boards is perfect. So far it sounds like both boards perform reasonably well.

Yeha - you don't think that a 250mhz bus speed qualifies as a pretty good overclock for a micro-atx board? Most micro-atx boards have zero overlocking, so I'm pretty happy with my 223mhz overclock (ram limited), or the reported 230-250mhz overclocks. That seems pretty good to me. I really don't think that an overclock better than that is suited for a HTPC or an silent PC. People tend to underclock here as much as overclock.

[yeha]

250mhz isn't 'bad' of course but it'd frustrate me (i.e. the minority of users) knowing that i can't reach my cpu's maximum speed because the motherboard maker cut corners on $0.04 parts. there's nothing intrinsic about matx board size that prevents a good overclock - the chipsets are the same, cpu power circuitry is the same (remember all 939 boards support the fx-55, which draws more power at stock speed than a highly-overclocked winchester/venice), pcb production machinery is the same, the only difference is the options enabled in the bios and the clock generator model.

it just blows my mind that companies will try to save money on such a component - i know of at least a dozen people both locally and through overclocking forums that would've bought the rs480m2 had it used a non-crippled clock generator, and i'm just one person. also, that amd itself is considering moving to a 250mhz memory bus (ddr500) means that boards with such clock generators won't be able to drive the next round of cpus released at stock speeds

[0ctane]

Just my two cents here. I have been interested in getting a mATX 939 board with PCIe x16. The features provided by the Radeon Xpress 200 boards are ideal for my purposes (HD-HTPC and games). However, support for the Xpress 200 chipset under Linux is currently quite poor. Many people are having issues with the SATA, and no one I know of has onboard video functioning properly yet... only basic vesa video. If anyone has got the accelerated onboard graphics working, I would like to hear about it.

[mb2]

any of you guys with the ati chipset.. can u give any idea of how hot the southbridge, 'northbridge'(or whatever u call it now?) etc run on these boards? (compared to a nf4 if u have experience of both)

sapphire should be coming out with a 939 matx board with the ATI chipset, sataII and HD audio IIRC sometime also.. if it has good OC options and good onboard vid then i may finally have to go 64

[tabbal]

any of you guys with the ati chipset.. can u give any idea of how hot the southbridge, 'northbridge'(or whatever u call it now?) etc run on these boards? (compared to a nf4 if u have experience of both)

Mine doesn't get too hot at all (MSI RS480M2-IL)... it is passively cooled... no fans North or South Bridge.
Case 3700BQE with one 120 fan and Seasonic S12-330. Almost silent out of the box!
Runs cool and very stable!
Temp: Mobo around 35c - AMD 3000+ (90n) :38c idle .... 41-42c full load.
No VGA card though... not needed for me - not a gamer.

[Ephemeron]

sapphire should be coming out with a 939 matx board with the ATI chipset, sataII and HD audio IIRC sometime also.. if it has good OC options and good onboard vid then i may finally have to go 64

any ETA on this board?

[yeha]

sapphire should be coming out with a 939 matx board with the ATI chipset, sataII and HD audio IIRC sometime also.. if it has good OC options and good onboard vid then i may finally have to go 64

if you're thinking of the sapphire a56 board (939, matx, ati chipset), i emailed them a while back and they said the board will not be physically capable of being overclocked, i.e. the clock generator cannot generate a signal over 200 mhz. they were adamant about that in the email, their 1st-gen ati products will not allow overclocking of any kind. it was 2-3 months ago, they may have reconsidered, but i doubt it.

why oh why oh why..

[mb2]

any ETA on this board?

not that i'm aware of, and even if i knew i wouldn't trust it- these ATI chipset motherboards were meant to come out in Nov 04. true, the MSI came out (alot later than that<) but nothing else until now..

they were adamant about that in the email, their 1st-gen ati products will not allow overclocking of any kind.

well.. this board is practically made for overclocking, so perhaps they may have reconsidered.. but then again that may not be considered '1st gen'

while on that subject there is an ATI rep (Grayskull) over there (xtremesystems) who is asking those crazy OCers what sort of things they want to see in a motherboard.. and he (and sapphire) seem(s) to be listening judging by the linked board.. if any SPCR'ers are signed up there, or feel like signing up, u could put in a word for supporting undervolting and all that sort of thing..

[yeha]

yep i've seen that thread, but grayskull isn't the easiest person to get information out of

shuttle made that enthusiast board on a whim, i don't believe there's even been a decision made about whether it'll be released or not. ati is doing a terrible job convincing motherboard manufacturers to go with their chipset, i remember ocw reporting that many taiwan-based manufacturers are still skeptical of the chipset despite its proven performance.

oh well, it'll be power-hungry nvidia boards for a while it seems.

[Pooh-Bah]

Hmmm...it seems as though there are some negative reports coming out regarding the MSI board:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=22036

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=21962

Isn't anybody else using the Foxconn board yet? We have lots of people posting good and bad about the MSI, but I seem to be the only one talking about the Foxconn.

[nmuntz]

Waiting for these microatx s939 boards to become more readily available is driving me crazy. I cannot find a source (in Canada) for any of them other than the MSI/ATI one. Hopefully the ASRock board with the ULI chipset becomes available soon.

I guess the longer I wait, the less I'll pay for a Venice core.

[KJ]

>>Waiting for these microatx s939 boards to become more readily available is driving me >>crazy. I cannot find a source (in Canada) for any of them other than the MSI/ATI one. >>Hopefully the ASRock board with the ULI chipset becomes available soon.

>>I guess the longer I wait, the less I'll pay for a Venice core.


I hear ya: in fact, I just broke down and bought a S754 board. Perhaps the dual cores will be cheap by the time I again feel inclined to spend $ on the computer.