A motherboard to last 4-5 years

frugal_guy · Post by **frugal_guy** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:39 am

warriorpoet - Your suggestions could clearly put together a very nice system.

You obviously have the ABit AN8 Ultra motherboard. Do you also have the P150 and if so, do they play nicely together? The P150 looks like a very nice case, and on paper, the NeoHE is a good power supply, but there are obviously serious compatability issues with some motherboards. If the NeoHE works well with the ABit AN8 Ultra, that would be very nice.

frugal_guy · Post by **frugal_guy** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:48 am

A lot of you have tried to convince me that a system intended to last several years needs a dual core CPU. This may be true, but what, besides games would we do with that processing power?

Is it possible that the future of "personal computing" could be processors with similar processing power as today's CPUs but with very small power consumption, thus more portable and quiet?

I would love to have a totally silent nano-itx sized system with the power of an Opteron 165 drawing 10 watts!

Mccoyness · Post by **Mccoyness** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:54 am

what, besides games would we do with that processing power?

Very few games benifit from dual core.
At present video encoding gets the biggest speed boost. I think you would see the most benefit in multi-tasking tho.

Mccoyness · Post by **Mccoyness** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:59 am

frugal_guy wrote:I would love to have a totally silent nano-itx sized system with the power of an Opteron 165 drawing 10 watts!

Don't we all. I'm still waiting for the nano-itx platform from Via. Perhaps someone will develop a mini-itx yonah platforom in the near future this is the closest we can hope for in the next couple of years I think.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:38 am

lol 10 watts, wouldnt we all! there would be no forum though! that would be sad

dual core right now is not a NEED. however, 4 years from now, yeah it will be a need. Everything is rushing towards utilizing it. If you have an older processor, but it has dual core and 64 bit and 4 gigs of ram on the board, you'll be that kid with the old machine running new apps.

or you could be the kid with e 300mhz celeron running windows 98 se with fallout 2 running. not a bad place to be, just a little complicated.

fallout2 is better than bf2 anyways.

quikkie · Post by **quikkie** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:10 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:fallout2 is better than bf2 anyways.

wash your mouth out!

I've played more BF2 than fallout2 (both for many hours) and play mostly to meet up with my cyber buddies, however BF2 is (in my not so humble opinion) way better than fallout 2.

-Quikkie

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:49 pm

frugal_guy wrote:A lot of you have tried to convince me that a system intended to last several years needs a dual core CPU. This may be true, but what, besides games would we do with that processing power?

I would love to have a totally silent nano-itx sized system with the power of an Opteron 165 drawing 10 watts!

If you have not experienced it and cost is a major consideration, I would recommend simply getting a single core. You won't miss much now, but future apps will be optimized for dual cores. An A64 3500+ will only cost you about $200 and should give you plenty of power for the next two years. By the third year, depending on what you are using it for, you may think that it is merely adequate. The A64 X2 3800+ is around $325, it may cost $125 more, but it will also come in handy about 2 years from now when I think software for home will really take advantage of the second core.

But that is about two years away. That's plenty of time for S939 dual core CPUs to drop in price, in fact it is rumored that prices for all Athlon 64s will drop in Q1 2006 when the A64 X2 5000+ debuts. Your system is obviously alive and still kicking so if you can just wait a little longer the A64 X2 3800+ will be closer within your reach. Or simply by a single core and upgrade in the future when you have more money.

I will be upgrading my PC soon, and will get either the 4600+ or the 4800+. It will be a combination gaming rig, and video workstation so I know I will be benefiting from dual cores. But that won't be until after I do my taxes. I know I will owe money, it seems I always owe money. Damn it.

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:30 pm

Hey Frugal_guy,

Dell has 20% sale on a handful of Athlon 64s (single and dual cores)

Click here for list of AMD CPUs

Click here for the 20% online coupon

Free shipping in the US, but sales tax still apply, increasing the final price. But all prices are less than what Newegg.com charges.

warriorpoet · Post by **warriorpoet** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:03 pm

frugal_guy wrote:warriorpoet - Your suggestions could clearly put together a very nice system.

You obviously have the ABit AN8 Ultra motherboard. Do you also have the P150 and if so, do they play nicely together? The P150 looks like a very nice case, and on paper, the NeoHE is a good power supply, but there are obviously serious compatability issues with some motherboards. If the NeoHE works well with the ABit AN8 Ultra, that would be very nice.

I do not have the P150, but I do have the Neo HE500 (initial release) coupled with an AN8 Ultra. Other than the Asus thing I have to say that I've never been more impressed with a PSU.

As for the P150, I can only go by what the lads here at SPCR say, and they say a lot of good about it.

As far as the dual-core issue issue is concerned, I'd definately spend the premium on a dual-core. If you've not used one, let me tell you that the difference in daily use (just Windows stuff) is spectacular. If you've ever had Gates's baby choke on a virtual hairball and turn blue on you, you'll appreciate the change of pace. Multitasking with a dual-core or dual-CPU rig is the experience I expected with the release of Win98.

Note: If you go with the ABit, be sure to DL the newest BIOS immediately after boot. For some reason they still ship with the buggy earlier revisions, why I do not know.

BTW, My current system is:

Mobo: ABit AN8 Ultra
CPU: Athlon64 3200+ @ 2.4GHz
Heatsink: Thermalright SI-120 (works great with my TAC)
Case: Antec SLK3000B
PSU: Antec Neo HE500
HDD: Maxtor DiamondMax 9 80Gb (encased in foam and still LOUD)
RAM: 1Gb Corsair ValueSelect PC3200
VGA: Leadtek 6800GT (AC Silencer 5 Rev.3)
Fans: 1x Nexus 120mm (heatsink); 1x Antec Tri-Cool on Low @ 9v
Optical: old Panasonic CD-RW; NEC 3540A

Another note on the ABit board: the AN8 Ultra ships with a utility called uGuru that, among other things, allows you to set fan voltage for a variety of conditions, usually between 8 and 12v depending on temperature, sometimes as low as 6v. I've found it very useful.

warriorpoet · Post by **warriorpoet** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:20 pm

Also, note that AMD dual-cores are surprisingly energy efficient:

source:
Tom's Hardware Guide
AnandTech

hvengel · Post by **hvengel** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:22 pm

frugal_guy wrote: snip

On the other hand, I emerge Gentoo (stable) updates almost daily.

snip

The original topic was choosing a motherboard and from that angle, once socket 939 is picked, I don't think most motherboards care whether I go with a 3200+ or an X2 4800+ or Opteron 175. It's mostly a matter of BIOS at that point, but I obviously want to go with an MB that will get periodic updates. Are there MB manufacturers that are better at that?

snip

The jump from Athlon 64 to Athlon 64 X2 may be worthwhile some day, but today it appears that, at least in Tom's tests, an X2 3800+ (2.0 ghz) can easily be slower than a single core 3800+ (2.4 ghz).

I am also a Gentoo user and I can report that Gentoo (really gcc) really is a good fit with the amd64 processor. You will be very happy about how fast your builds run. Going to a single core amd64 like a 3200 will result in your emerges taking only a fraction of the time they do on your current hardware. You will be very pleasently surprised by how fast even a low end amd64 does emerges.

I have just upgraded to a X2 (4800) and it had a huge impact on how long it takes to emerge software since these are threaded (you can set the number of threads in make.conf). Again for Gentoo a big plus as this results in a significant improvement over a single core amd64.

Most other software will not see much on an improvement and will run much like on a single core with the same clock speed unless it is multi-threaded (GIMP is one of these). But you will also see a significant improvement in how responsive you over all environment is but how much is hard to quantify but you will definitely notice it.

Now for the down side. I went through 5 motherboards before I found one that would work correctly with my X2. So with the current crop of motherboards it is not as simple as a BIOS upgrade. Make sure that the motherboard you select is one with a proven track record with the X2 CPU. Go to the Gentoo forums as there are threads in the amd64 section about motherboards that I think you will find helpful.

I should also add that I am having trouble with C'n'Q right in both Windows and Gentoo with the X2. I had to uninstall the amd CPU driver in Windows and disable CPU speed scaling in my Linux kernel to get a stable system. But the upgrade to X2 is new and I have not yet had a chance to dig into solving the problem.

In short:

1. The amd64 is the way to go.

2. For your needs you will be very happy with a lower end single core.

3. If you get a MB that you know is OK with X2 then you will have a proven upgrade path for later.

4. Go with a pci-x video card as this will future proof that as well. On a Gentoo system the only way to go is with one of the nvidia cards.

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:11 pm

Guys, my 2c..
Whilst being no expert in hardware, the whole price point / performance / frugality thing has me intrigued.
Yes, you could buy a single core for $200, upgrade in 1-2 years to a now cheaper dual core (?$250) and try to ditch the single core on ebay (?$80 - if you're lucky). Net cost $370.
Or, buy dual core now. $325. Bang. (to quote El Jefe

)
My opinion, get it now, enjoy the computing experience dual core will give today, and never look back at the price...

BigA · Post by **BigA** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:44 am

I've been planning to purchase a second PC and let my kids use my current machine. As we are a family on a somewhat limited budget, I wanted to get myself a high performance machine at a relatively low price (around $1000, excluding the monitor). As the CPU will not arrive for another day or so, I have not yet finished building the system. My choices have been:

Case: I splurged on an Antec P-180 case (at $99 from Newegg with rebate). While I like the P-180 case and it does have a number of extra features, the Antec 3000 case I am using for my current machine is also nice and is usually available for under $50 from Amazon.com.

Motherboard: For AMD, socket 939 is the way to go as it supports so many different processor options (Athlon 64, FX, X2, and Opteron). I went with an ASUS A8R-MVP based on its review at Anandtech and Tomshardware. Critical features for me in a motherboard were overclocking, passive cooling, X2 support (not all socket 939 boards support X2 processors), and PCI-e support. Judging from the size of the heatsinks, the A8R-MVP generates less heat than the A8N-SLI PREMIUM or the A8N32-SLI motherboards. I liked the latter two motherboards a lot as well, however, they are a good deal pricier unless you go with one of the fan-cooled A8N-SLI boards. At a price of $120 including shipping from JNCS.com, the A8R-MVP represented a good ratio of value to money for me. I also looked at Gigabyte motherboards and some of those looked like good value, but I have had good luck with ASUS in the past.

Power supply: I like the Antec Neo-HE based on its recent review here at SPCR, however, I was a little reluctant to go with one based on recent compatibility problems with ASUS motherboards. Although these problems have hopefully been cleared up, the chance that a new set of problems might present themselves with the A8R-MVP motherboards led me to a Seasonic S12-380 for around $65 after a $10 rebate from Newegg.

RAM: For overclocking, Anandtech uses the OCZ Platinum rev. 2 RAM for their benchmarks, however, the OCZ Platinum memory is very expensive. A less expensive option is Crucial Ballistix RAM which was reviewed by Anandtech: http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2145&p=20 The ASUS website qualified vendor list for RAM lists the Micron chips which are used by the Crucial Ballistix RAM as compatible with the A8R-MVP. I went with 2x512MB of PC3200 for $119 from Newegg.

CPU: For the Athlon 64, the overclocker forums seem to slightly favor AMD E3 stepping over E6 stepping and prices are about the same. I went with an ADA3000BPBOX Athlon 64 3000 Venice core at E3 stepping based on an expectation that this chip will overclock from 1.8 Ghz up to around 2.2 Ghz without too many problems. Some people have succeeded in overclocking this to around 2.4 Ghz, but I'm not planning to be greedy, especially since more aggressively clocked systems generate more heat, can be unstable, and run a higher risk of damage. At $130, I will spend less than half what many of the more expensive processors cost and, in a couple years, I can use the money I will save to upgrade to one of the processors which is currently selling for over $500.

CPU Cooler - a Thermalright XP-90 at around $40 including shipping should provide adequate cooling even for an overclocked chip. The XP-120 is doubtless a better cooler, however, the extra cost, weight, and size of the XP-120 kept me away. I'm sure the Scythe Ninja is also a great cooler, but the cost, weight, and height made me lean towards something smaller. Keep in mind that a taller cooler has more leverage on the motherboard than a smaller cooler. I'm thinking of using a Zalman fan bracket I have lying around to free-mount a fan 1/2" or so above the XP-90 cooler as this would hopefully reduce vibration and the weight of the cooler. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Video - I went with a SAPPHIRE Radeon X800GTO Ultimate at $185 as it is one of the more powerful video cards available with a heat-sink only. Some of the reviews for the card mention that it runs hot and the pictures on the Newegg site appears to have been updated to include a fan. Hopefully, I won't have a problem. FWIW, Newegg allows you to do an advanced search for video cards with "Heatsink only" cooling as one of the search options. I seriously looked at the Nvidia 6600 and 6800 cards as well and some of these models also represent good value for money, especially the heatsink-only version of the Gigabyte 6600GT. A good recent article on video card performance is available at:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/
I especially recommend the chart provided with this article:
http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/12/ ... de-big.gif

Adding in a hard drive, keyboard, mouse, CD/DVD, floppy, cables, and software brings the system to a little over $1,000, but it comes close enough.

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:35 am

SharkyExtreme has an article for those people who are looking to build a complete value gaming machine for approximately $1,000. They don't focus on silence, but they breakdown the cost of each component for both AMD and Intel machines. The cost of a monitor and the OS is also factored in. Leaving those two items out of the $1,000 limit can really expand your choices of components.

Article

frugal_guy · Post by **frugal_guy** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:53 am

After reading your suggestions and doing a fair amount of research elsewhere, I've decided to go with an ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 motherboard with an Opteron 146 CPU.

The ASRock mobo doesn't have gigabit lan or firewire, but it supports everything else I need, seems to work fairly well with Linux, and has reasonable overclocking support.

I know that some of you will consider me foolish to go with a single core CPU, but I've seen few real world benchmarks that show an advantage to dual cores outside of a few high performance games. Most current applications benefit more from higher clock speeds and I've read about incredible results with overclocking Opterons on the ASRock mobo if I really feel the need for speed. More likely, I'll attempt to overclock the CPU just to just below the point where I have to increase core voltage. This will likely give me Opteron 148+ performance for the price of a 146 and will be a huge increase over my Athlon 1000.

Thanks for your help.

Mike

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:38 am

opteron 146 is a sweet chip. that with the sweet fast board you picked, can't really go wrong.

if you oc it before it goes into higher voltages, you will have the best performance per watt currently around.

opterons OC much better than regular jobbies, and the solid 1 meg cache always will place it faster than the other options.

I think it is a good choice for the least cash spent. apps, video encoding, compression, 1080i/p hd content, those do great with dual core. if you dont use them much I guess you wont ever notice much frrom dual core.

game side, the 146 has more potential for frames.

tobyz28 · Post by **tobyz28** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:04 pm

I think youll be very happy with a single core.... I should let you guys know though that I fried my 2nd Processor (Dual athlon 2400's) 3 days a go.. (long story, stupid mistake :/ ). Anyhow, the past year or two that I've had this machine I never really appreciated how much the 2nd cpu has helped me. I think a lot of people really under estimate the benefits of a 2nd cpu... Alt Tabbing, things popping up while gaming, doing things as simple as web browsing while ripping DVD's, doing things while alt tabbed out of a game, hung processes hogging a processor, etc. Now with just 1 of my processors running i really feel it at the most annoying times. When your in the middle of something, that extra processor really picks up the slack when its most needed.

The computer doesnt run horribly on one, its just really noticable whenever i'm doing anything intensive and need to multitask.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:16 pm

How I'd spend my money..bearing in mind I like GOOD beer so I can't spend too much. MOBO- ECS K8M800-M2, Processor,Sempron 64 3100,1gb Corsair Value Ram,160 GB Spinpoint SATA, M Audio Revolution 5.1 Soundcard,Whatever basic Radeon is fanless,AGP,with VIVO,Artic Cooling Silentium Case-which includes a Seasonic PSU. Heatsink,Ninja!

This will be nice and quiet. 5 years from now,it still runs progs nice and speedy. By the way-I upgraded to Win 2k,using FAT 32 filesystem. Kept my custom look desktop from win 98 days but this crashes far less.most everything seems same as 98,yet it's sturdier underneath. Got tired of annually re-installing Win 98,but XP bugs me. Get Partition Magic+ boot Magic,go multi OS,have 95+2000+XP64 all onboard if you want. Bear in mind SOME of the newest mobos DO NOT support the 95/98/ME OS's

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:33 pm

I should have explained......I LIKE the Palermo Semprons for Bang per buck AND bang per decibel. The New 754 version (E-6) 3000 Venice lists as even fewer watts (heat) but a bit more $ than a 3000 or 3100 Sempron. The Mobo is a Mini ATX,a Via chipset (no fan) 754,AGP,SATA,$50. As I like the VERY cool running 754 AMD chips,I have shopped a lot for a 754 mobo. Well,a lot of nifty features,mostly which I never would use,come on 939 boards,for more money. 754 was the breakthrough to 64 bit,but now what WERE spiffy deluxe boards are seldom seen as the "high end" market (gamers) are all after 939,SLI,Riad,etc. Overkill. The 754 mobos tend to be econo models,and,or a bit buggy. I look at all the New Egg Reviews and look for "red flags" stuff that shows what trouble SOME folks run into. This little board was the rare item NOBODY seemed to have any troubles with. With ALL 754's you AVOID double sided RAM,and you expect to flash the bios...which applies to most mobos it seems. Mobo+Sempron Palermo 3100+ a Ninja=under $200 at New Egg. The rest is beer money!!!!

Zed Lopez · Post by **Zed Lopez** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:19 am

Look into the QEMU emulator (which is really fast with the KQemu accelerator) for running Windows ME within Linux -- it's easier than dual booting.

frugal_guy · Post by **frugal_guy** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:23 pm

Zed Lopez wrote:Look into the QEMU emulator (which is really fast with the KQemu accelerator) for running Windows ME within Linux -- it's easier than dual booting.

I'm currently using Wine, but it has it's problems. I'll take a look at QEMU. Thanks!

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 pm

I also am about to upgrade from an oldie,and don't do games,but do Audio workstation apps,Photoimpact and some photoshop,so I need more speed but 5x faster is enough. i don't need to double the price to get 7x faster than this old relic.

I also want some shelf life,but it's hard to say what goodies will be the big thing in 2009 and beyond. In case there IS some "must have" tech over the horizon,I'd rather NOT overspend now. I ALSO really want a QUIET rig as I do a lot of bit torrent and sleep near the machine.

I am leaning toward a Sempron 3100 Palermo on an ECS K8M800-M2 mobo. I have a recently obtained passive Radeon with Vivo,just got an M Audio Revolution soundcard,have several good IDE drive but want a big SATA spinpoint before long.
A Sempron 3100 may be lightweight to a hardcore gamer,but jumping from a 1 ghz with slow RAM...its gonna ZOOM. Meanwhile it actually runs a tad COOLER than the popular 3000 Venice (939)....and the Sempy + this mobo is = in price to the 939 Venice 3000-with NO mobo. Stick a Ninja on that Sempron and there's a good chance a 120mm PSUfan will give all the airflow you need,though I expect to use a PSU with a 140mm,1000 rpm fan,and a 720mm 120 switched so I can manually turn it on if its a hot day and heavy load. Meanwhile it can do 64 bit apps that don't yet exist as well as all the 32 bit stuff that does. It may not be a benchmark hot rod...but you should see the car I drive.....funky ..but C H E A P,and reliable

I looked hard at all the user reviews at newegg. I wanted to use a 754 Sempy-or the newer,cooler 754 Venice E6,and my AGP card. A number of boards worked well for many users-but several had troubler,found bugs,or got a board that was dead from the start. This little (m-atx) ECS had about 40 replies and it seemed all were happy campers. Even the deluxe SLI/NF4 mobos at far more $ get some % of problems reported.
This mobo is a compact,yet has the features I especially need. I have a very big,old full tower case. So why a micro atx mobo? Simple,I can later put a SECOND system in this box. Want multi-tasking? 2 full computers ought to be as good as 2 cores. That and its just so GEEK to do!

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:59 pm

ozdoc wrote:Guys, my 2c..
Whilst being no expert in hardware, the whole price point / performance / frugality thing has me intrigued.
Yes, you could buy a single core for $200, upgrade in 1-2 years to a now cheaper dual core (?$250) and try to ditch the single core on ebay (?$80 - if you're lucky). Net cost $370.
Or, buy dual core now. $325. Bang. (to quote El Jefe )
My opinion, get it now, enjoy the computing experience dual core will give today, and never look back at the price...

My plan,you get a mobo and cpu now for $140 and when 2008 arrives there will be a Sempron x2 4000 for about $100,and an SATA 3 ready "budget" mobo with stuff we have yet to hear about for another year or 2. I can say my NEXT rig will actually cost much less $ than my obsolete by the time I assembled it NF2/Athlon XP rig...which I'm selling at a "loss" as I can get 70% of the cost of a much faster/quieter rig.

sidenote. You can hardly top a Ninja for heatsink efficiency...but I'm apt to get an Aerocool 1000. Its similar in layout,smaller-but copper fins which are gold plated. Potentially copper,aluminum,electicity,and any humidity ought to be a recipe for corrosion. Gold plated means no corrosion and actually adds a tiny bit to thermal transfer while adding major blingbling,this thing is black and gold...REAL gold. Spiffy. That mobo is black pcb. would look ritz. A review said a Venice 3000 (939) can run passive with this HS. So a Semp runs a little cooler. Undervolted a tad.....perfect.

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:31 am

ronrem wrote:I am leaning toward a Sempron 3100 Palermo

Why not the Sempron 3400+ for just $24 more ($23 + $1 shipping)?

warriorpoet · Post by **warriorpoet** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:26 pm

frugal_guy wrote:After reading your suggestions and doing a fair amount of research elsewhere, I've decided to go with an ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 motherboard with an Opteron 146 CPU. [snip]

Congrats!

That's the same mobo I'm using for my Dad's new machine (IT guy running a PIII, go figure).

I think you'll enjoy that setup.

BTW, what is the rest of your machine like?

frugal_guy · Post by **frugal_guy** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:05 am

warriorpoet wrote:BTW, what is the rest of your machine like?

Well, building this thing is a work in progress. The motherboard got here last week, but Opteron 146s were out of stock in many places for a while and the prices skyrocketed. I ended up ordering a 144 (should oc well) and it just got here yesterday evening.

Here's what I have running at the moment:

Case: old Antec SX830
Power Supply: Seasonic S12-380
Motherboard: ASRock 939Dual-Sata2
CPU: Opteron 144 (stock speed so far, will overclock later)
CPU cooler: stock AMD (probably will be XP-90 w/Yate Loon)
RAM: G.Skill 2x512, 2.5,3,3,6
Disk: WD Caviar SE 120MB
GPU: GeForce 2 (probably will be LeadTek GeForce 6600GT 128MB)

When I ordered the Seasonic from Case-Mod.com, I was able to get a Cooldrive 4 for $15. Though it's not worth much for cooling and silencing the drive, it can control 4 fans, has 4 temp sensors, and looks nice. It's primary use now is to slow down the AMD cpu fan to 1000 RPMs.

The hard drive is attached to aluminum angle brackets and sitting on a foam sheet on the floor of the case near the intake fan.

The case supports 3 80mm intake fans and 2 80mm exhaust fans. I currently have 1 of each and they are Arctic Cooling Pro TCs running about 1000 RPMs. I plan to alter the intake to fit a 120mm fan, but the exhaust will have to stay 80s.

At this point, the loudest part of the system is the old 40mm fan on the GeForce 2 so it has to go.

A motherboard to last 4-5 years

What and Why...

running Windows ME