Anyone know how semprons do for gaming?

[GamingGod]

I never really paid attention to semprons but i was reading a review somewhere that had them rated just slightly below amd64's but they are MUCH cheaper, and the mobo's are cheaper too. How much of a difference in performance do they give and are there any downfalls to them?

[frostedflakes]

Surprisingly the Semprons perform very well. Because of the integrated memory controller the K8 architecture can access the memory very quickly, so cache size is not that big of a factor with performance. You likely won't notice any difference in normal applications and only a minor difference (a few FPS at the most) in games.

The downside is that Semprons currently aren't available at as high of clock speeds as Athlon64 (although overclocking can easily fix that), they aren't available in dual core, and I think only Sempron above 3000+ support Cool n Quiet. But I think a Sempron 2800+ or above would be more than adequate for a midrange gaming system. Most modern games are much more depended on video card anyways, so if you're on a budget my suggestion would be to cut corners where you can (the processor) and spend the money you saved on a good video card, which will increase performance much more than a few percent.

[mb2]

the lower ones (below 3000+) don't support Cool'n'quiet.. but, they dont really need it either tbh, unless u want to OC (but its not exactly essential still.. they will remain cool even when OCed and the fan is at min, with default HSF)
the l2 cache goes up and down between 128kb and 256kb for each model number.. if u are an overclocker, u'll want one of the 256kb ones, if not, then one of the 128kb ones; as the clockspeed is the main determinant of performance.. so u get more value by having more clockspeed rather than cache.
the only significant time when the semp's lack of cache is significant is in uncompressing zips/rar's etc.. most of the time its.. well i wont say negligible, but not anywhere near as significant as the clockspeed.
there are older semps which dont support x64 or sse3, but most of them should have been sold and not around.
and theres no dual channel ram support.. but thats no disaster.
unless your thinking of dual-core.. then semp is the way IMO..

.i think u'd get more performance by spending the money you save from the CPU on a better graphics card.. (or more ram)
cpus aren't really the bottleneck for gaming.. most new ones will do fine.. i have no problems playing quake 4, or anything else i've tried w my 3000+.

[stupid]

I would agree that as long as you have a decent enough CPU, the limiting factor is the GPU. There was an article about this, but I don't remember where I read it.

Anywaste, going for the S754 Sempron & mobo combo is really inexpensive. The drawback is S754 is dead. The Sempron 3400+ is the last Sempron based on socket 754. So if you want to upgrade later you'll need to buy a new mobo as well. When socket AM2 Athlons becomes available, the current S939 Athlons will turn into the new series of Semprons.

Hopefully, you'll have enough money to buy the GeForce 7600GT (~$180) it can beat the 6800GS easily. I would say that it's performance is somewhere in between the 6800GT & 6800Ultra. The 6800GS is around $140 - $150.

[QuietOC]

How much of a difference in performance do they give and are there any downfalls to them?

Pretty much equal to same clockspeed A64 for most things including gaming.

They don't have as much resale value compared to similar A64.

I'd much rather overclock a $75 chip than a $150+ chip, however, and they can be very, very fast overclocked.

Or they can run very, very cool undervolted.

Or pick somewhere in between.

Or a little of both.

My motherboard the BIOSTAR Tforce 6100 lets you save many sets of motherboard settings, so I have one I can load when I want to run my Sempron 2800+ at default speed of 1.6GHz at 1.0V for normal use. Then I have another one that runs the Sempron at 2.4GHz at 1.5V for more aggressive use.

The Sempron 3000+ and higher support Cool'n'Quiet which basically does something similar on the fly in Windows.

So say you get a E6 Sempron 64 3100+ and you manage to get it to run at let's say 2.7GHz at 1.8V. That is one fast CPU, and probably a match for a Athlon 64 FX for most intents and purposes. It will also be using up a good 150W at full load. Well, with Cool'n'Quiet, instead of running at 2.7GHz when idle it will clock down to 1.5GHz and the voltage will lower too. So, instead of a 150W CPU it will act like a 30W CPU. That is nice.

[GamingGod]

anyone know if they are going to put out a 939 socket sempron? That would be great so then I could upgrade to x2 when they fall into the budget range in a year or two.
Also what would you recommend as far as mobo and best sempron chip? Also which ram

[QuietOC]

anyone know if they are going to put out a 939 socket sempron? That would be great so then I could upgrade to x2 when they fall into the budget range in a year or two.
Also what would you recommend as far as mobo and best sempron chip? Also which ram

AMD does sell S939 Semprons to OEMs, but good luck finding one for sale.

BIOSTAR TForce 6100 S754 if you want PCIe. It doesn't have a lot of extras, but it has all the right features: silent, cool, reliable and cheap. It is also small being a micro ATX motherboard, so you can also put it in smaller cases, but it will work in a full-size case just fine. It only has 2 PCI slots, but that is plenty for most people.

Epox has a S754 nForce4 SLI motherboard (EP-8NPA). Epox quality is somewhat uneven, and I don't have experience with this board. It comes with a fan on the Northbridge, but that is easy enough to swap out. Probably one to consider.

Some people have recommended DFI Lanparty nForce 3 for AGP. I have no experience with it.

I think you will want to find the E6 version if you can. The Sempron 64 2800+ and 3100+ are probably the best buys. They have the 256kB L2 instead of the 128kB L2. Check out my last post in the HTPC processor thread.

[stupid]

anyone know if they are going to put out a 939 socket sempron?

From my previous post.

When socket AM2 Athlons becomes available, the current S939 Athlons will turn into the new series of Semprons.

[QuietOC]

When socket AM2 Athlons becomes available, the current S939 Athlons will turn into the new series of Semprons.

No, have you checked on the current prices on Socket A processors?

There will be fairly inexpensive (~$100) AM2 Semprons, but I wouldn't count on AMD ever releasing anything cheaper than $150 for Socket 939.

[stupid]

When socket AM2 Athlons becomes available, the current S939 Athlons will turn into the new series of Semprons.

No, have you checked on the current prices on Socket A processors?

There will be fairly inexpensive (~$100) AM2 Semprons, but I wouldn't count on AMD ever releasing anything cheaper than $150 for Socket 939.

So from my quote, how did you derive that I stated anything on socket 939 Sempron pricing?

It seems information on AM2 Semprons was only released last month. Since I never bother with "budget" solutions, I assumed AMD's roadmap from last year still held true regarding S939 Semprons. But according to a few hardware review sites like Anandtech and Xbitlabs, AMD has been shipping S939 Semprons to OEMs.

The reason why no e-tailer is selling it is because AMD started to crack down on selling "grey market" CPUs last year.

[dukla2000]

I dont game so cant add personal experience, but X-bit labs have done a number of articles with Semprons included in the round-up, including this one specifically aimed at gaming benchmarks. In short a Sempie doesn't have too much to apologise for considering how much cheaper it (& S754) is.

[GamingGod]

so if i got a tforce and a 3100bx how high could i go with it and leave it safely at that speed without worrying about frying it? If I overclock I dont want to do it extreme! just moderately. Also I was reading that the biostar tforce revision 1.1 is having trouble with the onboard lan. Know anything about that?

Also I wish I could find a review comparing the 7600gs, 7600gt, and 7900gt.

[mb2]

not sure what revision i have (will check sometime..) but i have had no problems using the onboard LAN.. and i have filled my p120 with about 150GB via the lan :p

i can OC to 2.3ghz in windows with the biostar utility (they have really covered most stuff so u never have to use the bios.. the apps are pretty useful, although look predictably naff). i can't OC in the bios.. it never boots if i try.. but i think i need to update my bios fo that(?).. and i believe that u can usualy OC higher in the bios..
OTOH, i haven't really increased the voltage much.. and can run (fully stable) at 1.25v @ 2.3.. (undervolting)
the htt can go up to ~300 i think..some say less, some say 350+, but i haven't pushed it.. tbh i've not really felt lacking atall.. but i will push it a bit sometime..
most people say 2.4ghz is towards the lower end of what u can expect. so hopefully i'll go a bit further..
but theres fat chance your going to get an e6 sempron on air to 2.7ghz!

i have a 3000+ w/ C'n'q.. and to be honest.. whilst its nice, and changing multis on the fly is good..i wouldn't miss it as much as i thought i would.. and might have thought more about getting a 2800+ with the more cache. not that i notice any lack of cache thou.. so perhaps i'd have thought the opposite if i had got a 2800+ :p

[dukla2000]

... how high could i go with it and leave it safely at that speed without worrying about frying it?

My 3000+ runs 2.4 GHz (267HTT) rock solid at stock VCore. I never really tried higher VCore but as per mb2 would expect to get a bit further if I lifted the volts.

[jaganath]

theres fat chance your going to get an e6 sempron on air to 2.7ghz!

From this thread:

Which CPU for an HTPC?

For anyone considering overclocking a Sempron 64 on the BIOSTAR 6100 S754.

300MHz HT speed is very practical. You can run normal DDR400 at the proper speed. While, the motherboard has HT settings up to 450MHz, but the BIOS memory dividers aren't as useful for those speeds. The BIOS has memory dividers for 100, 133, 166, and 200. The 133 setting gives you DDR400 with a 300MHz HT speed. You can access additional memory dividers using software, but the software is not as easy to use as the BIOS for tweaking.

I am guessing the TForce 6100 can run an E6 Sempron 64 3100+ at 2.7GHz. I got my DO Sempron 64 3100+ nearly to 2.6GHz.

Easy Sempron choices for overclocking on this motherboard:

Sempron 2500+ 7x300 = 2.1GHz (probably 1.2V or less to overclock)
Sempron 26/2800+ 8x300 = 2.4GHz (my DO needs 1.5V for this)
Sempron 30/3100+ 9x300 = 2.7GHz (probably needs 1.8V, if it works)

[QuietOC]

I also got my DO Sempron 2800+ to nearly 2.6GHz, but that is when I had the four fans running full blast on the Ninja, one being the 92mm Sunon Tornado. The D0 S64 3100+ speed was done just using the 1600rpm S-flex.

I don't think 2.7GHz is at all unreasonable. In fact, there are reports that several E6 chips can do 3.0GHz on air. 2.7GHz might be about the limit for quiet cooling though.

If I get one, I'll let everyone know.

The K7/K8 core responds very well to increasing core voltage as long as you keep it cool.

[QuietOC]

it never boots if i try.. but i think i need to update my bios fo that(?).. and i believe that u can usualy OC higher in the bios..

Are you lowering the memory dividers when OCing? You may just be bumping into the limits of your memory.

OTOH, i haven't really increased the voltage much.. and can run (fully stable) at 1.25v @ 2.3.. (undervolting)

That is a very good speed at that voltage.

the htt can go up to ~300 i think..some say less, some say 350+, but i haven't pushed it.. tbh i've not really felt lacking atall.. but i will push it a bit sometime..

I have gotten past 300, up to 320MHz at least--which is about the limit of my Sempron 2800+ at the 1.8V setting (a real 1.73V according to Sandra).

I don't think it will work all the way up to the 450MHz setting in the BIOS, and, even with a Sempron 64 2500+, there isn't a good memory divider in the BIOS for those high HT speeds if they do work. Maybe if it works at 400MHz x 7 = 2.8GHz and then use the 100MHz setting for memory you can get DDR400 again. Maybe you would just need to buy some DDR500.

[mb2]

preface: sorry for hijacking this thread ..

hm, thats odd as i thought i remembered that E6 overclocked less than D0.. and i thought most people were getting ~2.4 whereas they used to get ~2.6 (like you).
i also thought that u didn't really get much return from increasing the voltage above ~1.6v?.. and that they fried at much lower voltages than the AXP (which i'd probably max at ~1.85v)

having said that i haven't frequented any OC forums in a while..

can't u just lower the multi to test the highest HTT? ..true, theres not much point in running it like that (unless it works out so u can get a better memory speed.)
..i've been really lazy in OCing.. but atleast i've given it time to know that it works at stock/gentle OC.

yes i did change the memory dividers- i have been doing this in the bios so that the OC could work in windows.. where can u change the dividers in windows??
i am currently using the stock cooler (i have an old zalman clone that is s754 compatible, but no thermal paste atm..)
and when your talking about the OCs.. u are talking about ones which will last out prime for a few hours, at minimum?

also.. i dont suppose you're using it.. but do u know how to OC the onboard graphics?.. it doesn't OC with the HTT does it.(?) i dont think nTune works with it.. but maybe v3 does.. their (Nv) website is terrible for downloads(!).
that would give a more noticable performance gain for me.. but it might need some active cooling then..

another board related thing.. what are u meant to do about the IDE drivers?.. currently i haven't installed anything for them as i was unsure about the fuss about the Nv drivers, and weather it applied to Tforce.. are the ones on the CD ok?
..when i plugged in an old IDE hdd it wasn't in my computer, but was in device manager..

..yea and keep answering gaming gods questions too..

[QuietOC]

hm, thats odd as i thought i remembered that E6 overclocked less than D0.. and i thought most people were getting ~2.4 whereas they used to get ~2.6 (like you).

Maybe, I haven't paid a lot of attention to it either. I have been hearing of people recently getting 3.0GHz out of Semprons, but I don't have any direct knowledge. I bought what I thought was an E6 Sempron 3100+ to try to get 2.7GHz.

i also thought that u didn't really get much return from increasing the voltage above ~1.6v?.. and that they fried at much lower voltages than the AXP (which i'd probably max at ~1.85v)

I think what most people find is that they just can't get rid of the extra heat. You need something much better than the stock cooler to keep increasing the voltage. Heat output increases with the square of voltage. My mobile Athlon XP 2500+ at 2.7GHz running off 2.3V was probably pushing out well over 200W of heat.

1.8V is a decent limit, and I think you can cool any extremly overclocked Sempron/Athlon 64 running on 1.8V silently.

That latter part may very well be true, but I have never seen a processor fried merely from too much voltage. I have seen lots of processors fried at stock voltage due to improper heatsink mounting. As long as you can keep it always under 50*C I wouldn't worry about voltage much. Yes, you are hastening the processors death due to electron migration, but it will still run for years and years.

can't u just lower the multi to test the highest HTT?

Theoretically, yes, but, for example, my NF3 motherboard wasn't as stable at low memory multipliers as it was at the normal multipier.

where can u change the dividers in windows??

The BIOSTAR overclocking software included with the motherboard lets you set all kinds of memory dividers. Unfortunately my software doesn't work anymore, maybe it only works with the orginal BIOS.

Also I believed some people have made custom BIOS's for the Tforce boards. I haven't tried any, but I was hoping that one might up the CPU voltage cap from 1.8V. There was a long, long thread at HardOCP about the Tforce boards several months ago.

and when your talking about the OCs.. u are talking about ones which will last out prime for a few hours, at minimum?

I don't find Prime to be stressful enough. I generally loop game test 2 and 4 of 3DMark 2001 SE at the highest resolution and AA level the video card can run with the software T&L setting to max out the CPU. Also, Simcity 4 is quite CPU stressful. Maybe I find 3DMark to be a more reliable stress test just because I have cheap power supplies.

also.. i dont suppose you're using it.. but do u know how to OC the onboard graphics?.. it doesn't OC with the HTT does it.(?) i dont think nTune works with it.. but maybe v3 does.. their (Nv) website is terrible for downloads(!).

I did try CoolBits and RivaTuner in January and neither of those worked. However, I was running on the onboard video the other day and ATITool was showing three sliders for the 6100. So try that out.

that would give a more noticable performance gain for me.. but it might need some active cooling then..

The 6100 is pretty memory bandwidth limited on a S754 motherboard. What would really help it is getting some DDR600 memory, but I think you'd be better just getting a S939 then. You best bet is probably see hw fast you can run your current memory--use that built in Memtest that the Tforce has!

another board related thing.. what are u meant to do about the IDE drivers?.. currently i haven't installed anything for them as i was unsure about the fuss about the Nv drivers, and weather it applied to Tforce.. are the ones on the CD ok?

I downloaded the latest drivers from nVidia. I haven't had any issues. I have no desire to install or use nVRAID or whatever it is called, but that is seperate from the IDE drivers I believe.

[mb2]

so NVraid is the one with the problems?..

for the CPU lower timings are better than huge ram clocks..
but for the graphics would it be worth sacrificing timings for more clock speed?

my OC prog doesn't seem to have any way to adjust the memory frequency?...
..and yes, that is how naff the biostar programs look, lol.

[jaganath]

and yes, that is how naff the biostar programs look, lol.

They may look naff, but really it is quite revolutionary for a reasonably-priced micro-ATX board to have such generous overclocking and undervolting options; in fact it's almost unique.

[mb2]

i agree- i think they're great. theres almost no necessity to enter the bios..
and the overclock options (and ability) is great too.
never disputed that. they still look naff thou. like all programs supplied by motherboard makers, ever

[jaganath]

I have a(nother) question: is the GeForce 6100-M7 as good as the Tforce 6100 (especially in regards to the BIOS options for voltages, memory etc)? Only I see that it is a couple of quid cheaper than the Tforce so I wondered whether it was inferior in any way.

[mb2]

no, it has rubbish OC options in the bios.. but u can flash the 6100 bios anyway.
if u look at the pictures of the boards.. the layout is slightly different - the 6100 has more coils (dont know proper name?).. and as said, has better caps i believe.
i'm not certain if it OCs quite as well.. i just haven't found enough info on people OCing them.. also, just looking at the newegg reviews.. there are none less than 4* for the 6100.. 95% are 5*.. whereas a few people have had problems with the M7.. looser QC?
personally i'd look into it further urself (google..) i think hardOCP would/could help..
it would be a gamble but it could pay off pretty nicely.. and the worst-case scenario isn't that bad.
anyway.. if ur looking to save money.. check this out- i had a little play around to see how high i could get my HTT

..it didn't crash higher than that.. it just wouldn't get me go any higher
anyway.. so i dont having the low multi of a 2500+ would be a problem.. (having said that, i couldn't get the same processsor clock speed/voltage combination with that HTT.. and YMMV as always)

[mb2]

most people say 2.4ghz is towards the lower end of what u can expect. so hopefully i'll go a bit further..
but theres fat chance your going to get an e6 sempron on air to 2.7ghz!

i would like to appologize and retract this statement! ..i have never been so glad to be wrong

In fact, there are reports that several E6 chips can do 3.0GHz on air.

i have one! and stock cooling, lol. can run quiet, atleast for a short period.. but i haven't tested it for long enough yet of course! and no, its not stable at that, unfortunately. pretty damn impressive though and hopefully not far off! hopefully the voltage doesn't need to be that high.. i dont think 1.8v (i get 1.7v max in my bios? and .025v more in windows, but it undervolts anyway as u can see) is holding the chip back much.. it was mainly the ram that was the prob.. set at 100 now and thats the result
..makes me a little more glad i have CnQ now.. it might have a use
still can't OC the damn thing in the bios thou..
edit: not as fast as i'd like (knowing it can get to 3ghz) stable.. <2.7ghz atm..
edit 2: updated bios, now get 1.8v in the bios and it overclocks from the bios.

[fastturtle]

I noticed that no one mentioned this fact of Semperon Life. Some of them are basically renamed XP models, especially in the lower speed ratings. So never state that all Semperon's are 64 bit, instead check AMD's website to confirm that the specific chip you're thinking about purchasing is a 64 bit version, otherwise you may end up burned by getting a Renamed Athlon XP (thourobred/barton core) instead.

And yes I've checked because a friend was having trouble with their new semperon and 64 bit Linux. Simply put, it wouldn't run because it was an XP core.

[qviri]

I noticed that no one mentioned this fact of Semperon Life. Some of them are basically renamed XP models, especially in the lower speed ratings. So never state that all Semperon's are 64 bit, instead check AMD's website to confirm that the specific chip you're thinking about purchasing is a 64 bit version, otherwise you may end up burned by getting a Renamed Athlon XP (thourobred/barton core) instead.

And yes I've checked because a friend was having trouble with their new semperon and 64 bit Linux. Simply put, it wouldn't run because it was an XP core.

The only potentially renamed XPs are the socket A Semprons. Socket A doesn't support 64-bit, so that makes sense.

[jaganath]

Hi mb2, me again. I'm expecting a resounding "Yes!" to this question but I'll ask it anyway: will the integrated graphics on the Tforce 6100 handle DVD playback with no problems at 1280x1024 resolution? ie no flickering or artefacts. Seeing as the GPU can even handle some low-res gaming I assume the answer is yes, but just wanted to do a (final!) pre-purchase check.

Also, how hot do the northbridge and GPU heatsinks run? Too hot to touch?

[GamingGod]

is there any other sempron 754 or 939 mobo recommendations. Im not concerned with onboard graphics or sound, but I do like good onboard lan sata, and pciX

[QuietOC]

for the CPU lower timings are better than huge ram clocks.. but for the graphics would it be worth sacrificing timings for more clock speed?

The IGP mainly needs bandwidth not low latencies. DDR600 would significantly improve the IGP performance, probably equivalent to the IGP running on a S939. The S939 6100 is more limited by pixel processing than memory bandwidth.

my OC prog doesn't seem to have any way to adjust the memory frequency?

Mine looks just like that except it also has contols at the memory speed to adjust the memory divider up and down. I think you probably just have a newer version of it. Mine hasn't worked since I updated the BIOS. Adjusting the memory divider in Windows was also the fastest way to crash the system.

Thanks for the HT speed information that Sempron 64 2500+ does sound like a better deal. 7x400 = 2.8GHz! I don't think a 2800+ will reach 3.2GHz though.