AM2 35W/65W X2 and intel Conroe 65W

NapalmDeath · Post by **NapalmDeath** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:47 am

With AMD about to release low power parts for the AM2 socket in X2 cpu's is anyone else considering an upgrade to get them?

X2 @ 35W only 3800
X2 @ 65W 3800, 4000, 4200, 4400, 4600, 4800
Conroe I read in a review is a 65W part, and is an architectural leap in cpu performance. In the review they said it didn't get hotter going from idle to load.

AMD is marketing the 3800 35W as an SFF chip, but if 65W doesnt heat up much is 35W really necessary?

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/Pro ... 76,00.html

I also posted on [H]forum asking advice for upgrade options here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1081212

I have a home office with a laptop and my SFF PC, and heat has been an issue for me. Using the SG-01 with NT06 works great, but it functions like a small heater. Considering the cpu/gpu are the main culprits, a lower power cpu seems to be a good solution.

So my upgrade options seem to be $150-180 or $500.
AM2 micro ATX and assuming a Conroe micro ATX comes out soon.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:28 am

I'd grab an X2 3800+ 35w, but I'm kind of an AMD fan, so...

Conroe is obviously the best choice as far as performance/watt, especially if you wanted to undervolt it. Consider that the 3800+ 35w is already undervolted a great deal to achieve such impressive thermals on 90nm.

Then again, even low-end Intel boards seem to be quite expensive, so if you don't necessarily need high performance, and just want something cool and reasonably powerful, X2 3800+ and an $80 mATX board starts to look very appealing.

You might also want to consider waiting until the end of the year, by which time AMD should start shipping 65nm dual-cores. Because of the smaller fabrication process, I wouldn't be surprised if standard power dissipation for an X2 3800+ @ 65nm was ~35w. They might also be a bit cheaper as well.

cienislaw · Post by **cienislaw** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:54 am

X2 35W will be nice, but here in Poland is impossible to get them. there is only single core 3500 35W, which is priced 2 times more as normal version. so now for me low voltage versions are only a dream.

=assassin= · Post by **=assassin=** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:07 am

Slightly OT, but does anyone think that the standard 89Watt TDP X2 3800+ might undervolt a little? I don't think I'd be able to afford the premium of the energy efficient models as I'm on a budget. Plus, what kind of effect would it have on wattage - would undervolting to 1.25 or less be likely possible, and would that help knock off around 10-20watts or more?

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:44 am

Isn't this a reason to get a socket 939 X2? There all the "good undervoltable" CPU haven't been sorted out to be sold as EE, so if you're lucky enough, you'll get your EE for free.

vitaminc · Post by **vitaminc** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:18 pm

The EE editions and EE SFF editions are no where to be found. Keeps your hope down. The only one that's semi-available is the 3800 X2 65W, on gamepc.com (Palo Alto, CA).

Conroe would be a much much better choice.

BTW, here is another thing. Nvidia's AMD chipset is usually running a lot warmer than Intel's chipset.

wdekler · Post by **wdekler** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:57 am

vitaminc wrote:BTW, here is another thing. Nvidia's AMD chipset is usually running a lot warmer than Intel's chipset.

Agreed, but some of the Nvidia chipsets contain a better GPU which can be useful for a HTPC when accelerating video content. Still, the Nforce4 looks much better than the Nforce5 which seems to be a step in the wrong direction for a silent PC.

Lets see what AMD+ATI can do...

Chrissicom · Post by **Chrissicom** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:14 am

Just to add my 2 cents... Conroe E6300 requires around 8 W in idle and I have seen no one who was able to get it to 65 W

an X2 3800+ 35 W is a lot more expensive than a Conroe E6300 (which can be cooled down even more with undervolting) so if buying a complete system with Mobo I would never ever in my wildest dreams consider AMD

I wouldn't consider it in real life anyway because I am an Intel fan, but even an AMD fan can't buy it at the moment if s/he doesn't want to waste money!

NapalmDeath · Post by **NapalmDeath** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:52 am

I think as an intel fan you're underestimating the demand issue along with new chip, could have a bug. They had a math issue with the completely new P4 a long time ago.

It does seem to raise the bar though.

eoctanker · Post by **eoctanker** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:35 am

For those out there wondering, AMD makes a 35W X2 4400+. I know, I own one. If you check out the X2 4400 and look at the scu, there are ADA which is a 89W and the ADV which is the 35W. Newegg is selling the 35W for only $7 more than the 89W one. My temps are awesome, I run a Ninja CPU HS and could go totally passive if I wanted. Right now the fan is running at 400rpm, just becuase I don't want it to be off. Current CPU temp is 27C and the highest I have seen it get while gaming is 36C. I also believe that the prices for the X2 4400 are dropping, so I would go that way.

Just my two cents.

Chrissicom · Post by **Chrissicom** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:07 pm

27 Â°C CPU Temp with Air cooling? You must have a very cool room hehe. My 3800+ 35 W with a Scythe Ninja Plus has 33 Â°C (standard fan connected to Asus A8N-E mobo CPU fan connector without QFan enabled) and it is in a data center with constant 22 Â°C (P.S. there is really low load on the server = no CPU stress).

Anyway... a 4400+ costs 201 EUR at the cheapest retailer in Germany while the Conroe E6300 only costs 182 EUR. Performance-wise there is really no doubt which CPU is faster. Also the engineering samples of that CPU around can easily compete with AMD in terms of power compensation and temperature so I assume the retail CPUs won't be worse.
Another huge advantage in my opinion is that Intel systems in general can live with much more heat. I was able to run a P4 3 Ghz with a passive PSU and passive Heatsink (Thermaltake passive 103 heatsink) with only one 120 mm case fan at 600 rpm. The CPU was getting 65 Â°C hot with a room temperature of around 30 Â°C and for an AMD CPU this temp would be near to critical already while a P4 can easily hold this temp and I think a Conroe can live with that temp too (although that's only an assumption).

The chipset shouldn't really be the issue, there are passively cooled mobos available for both types of CPU and they also have no big difference in power requirements. I think a 975X chipset requires more than nForce 4 SLI but this one requires more power than an i965 which is in my opinion the better Conroe chipset anyway (unless you need Crossfire).

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:15 pm

ecotanker, ADD is for 35w parts, not sure what ADV is, I couldn't find any reference to it. Can you post more info on your CPU, link to where you bought it from, CPU-Z, A64TcaseMax, etc.?

Chrissicom · Post by **Chrissicom** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:23 pm

Is it right actually that 35 W CPUs are only available on AM2 ?

elec999 · Post by **elec999** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:54 pm

I just did a quick check on newegg, and the 4400 x2 sku says ADA4400CDBOX and 1.30 V/1.35 V, I dont think this is EE.
Thanks

eoctanker · Post by **eoctanker** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm

Here is the scu off of my processor: ADV4400CDBOX. I went back and did a little research, I was wrong. My ADV4400CDBOX has a thermal power rating of 89W. The ADA4400CDBOX has a thermal power rating of 110W. That was the difference between the two, not 65W and 89W. Sorry for the miscommunication. Also, I got it from Zipzoomfly, not newegg. If you do a search for either one, both are found. The ADV4400CDBOX I found for $230 from zipzoomfly tonight... 1/2 the price for which I paid

NapalmDeath · Post by **NapalmDeath** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:30 pm

the low power AMD's are ADD.

Post by **Rusty075** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:07 pm

One point not mentioned that limits Conroe's for HTPC/SFF use is the near total lack of M-ATX motherboards. If you wanted to build a high performance/watt SFF right now, AM2 is about the only option. (unless you want a Shuttle, I suppose). Give it 6 months and there will be decent Conroe m-atx choices...I hope.

gb115b · Post by **gb115b** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:53 am

does anyone know anywhere to get a 35W Athlon / Sempron in the UK?

i can't seem to find them anywhere...

i may have to use 65W parts in which case for the money i can get either

X2 4200+ (Â£145)
E6300 - 1.83Ghz (Â£130)
E6400 - 2.13Ghz (Â£160)

what do you guys think would give the best price / performance / power ratios?

I was going for a cheap M/B with integrated graphics and a pcie slot for a raid card as its basically for a decent ish server box (that i can do some encoding etc on)

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:55 pm

Here are two links that shows idle and and burn power consumption:

Contemporary Dual-Core Desktop Processors Shootout (page 11)

AMDâ€™s Response to Intel Conroe: Energy Efficient Athlon 64 X2 CPU (page 6)

vitaminc · Post by **vitaminc** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:35 pm

NapalmDeath wrote:the low power AMD's are ADD.

ADD for EE
ADO for EE SFF

Sgraffite · Post by **Sgraffite** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:38 pm

Is there any thermal difference between the X2 3800+ 35w processor and an Opteron dual core processor with a TCaseMax TDP rated for 35w?

gb115b · Post by **gb115b** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:54 pm

what's the part number for that? i haven't seen that, it's not listed on the AMD site??

Sgraffite · Post by **Sgraffite** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:57 pm

It's not a specific part number, you run the TCaseMax which reads info hard coded into the cpu. Some of the Opterons show up as 35w TDP. There is a sticky on the top of these forums where a poll was taken a few months ago and people posted their processor model number and TDP etc... Look at the TDP and TCaseMax posts.

NapalmDeath · Post by **NapalmDeath** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:20 pm

This is a good article on comparing power consumption conroe vs x2.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... ut_13.html

The 35W X2 3800+ is $400.

The Conroe E6300 looks to be 45W for $229 and E6400 50W for $330, and the E6600 $52W for $459. It's also an architectural leap ahead of the X2.

Based on xbit's conclusion that an AMD Athlon 64 needs to clock 20% higher to compare to a conroe.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x2 3800 (2.00Ghz) $149
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x2 4000 (2.00Ghz) $379
E6300 (1.86Ghz) $229 = x2 4200 (2.23Ghz) $180
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .x2 4600 (2.4Ghz) $266
E6400 (2.13Ghz) $299 = x2 5000 (2.56Ghz) $346
E6600 (2.40Ghz) $459 = 64 FX-62 (2.88Ghz) $830

To jump to a Conroe would cost me $450 for new micro mobo, new DDR2 and cpu. I can get an E6300 equivalency with an X2 4200 for $180.
Never easy to do a forklift upgrade.

vitaminc · Post by **vitaminc** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:09 pm

NapalmDeath wrote:This is a good article on comparing power consumption conroe vs x2.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... ut_13.html

The 35W X2 3800+ is $400.

The Conroe E6300 looks to be 45W for $229 and E6400 50W for $330, and the E6600 $52W for $459. It's also an architectural leap ahead of the X2.

Based on xbit's conclusion that an AMD Athlon 64 needs to clock 20% higher to compare to a conroe.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x2 3800 (2.00Ghz) $149
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x2 4000 (2.00Ghz) $379
E6300 (1.86Ghz) $229 = x2 4200 (2.23Ghz) $180
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .x2 4600 (2.4Ghz) $266
E6400 (2.13Ghz) $299 = x2 5000 (2.56Ghz) $346
E6600 (2.40Ghz) $459 = 64 FX-62 (2.88Ghz) $830

To jump to a Conroe would cost me $450 for new micro mobo, new DDR2 and cpu. I can get an E6300 equivalency with an X2 4200 for $180.
Never easy to do a forklift upgrade.

Exactly. If you have 939 now, no reason to go AM2. If you really want to upgrade, go Conroe.

vitaminc · Post by **vitaminc** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:13 pm

BTW, the new X2 3600+ is 65W TDP and is cheaper than the X2 3800+ 89W edition. So that's probably the processor of choice on the AMD side