New rig,AMD or Conroe for the best performance/price?

[heertzy]

The E6300 system will definitely out perform the 3800+ X2 system by a huge margin.

So AMD is out!!!


Thanks

[NapalmDeath]

Why would you compare an E6300 ($229) to an X2 3800+ ($150) ?

For $180 you could be an X2 4200+ or $266 for an X2 4600+
($230 for X2 4400+ in a socket 939, but you wanted AM2)

I read a guy using an E6300 with stock fan was running at 52C.
I thought these were 65W parts that ran cooler.

Since I'm into SFF, I'm hoping to see micro ATX boards for Conroe to come out soon. Still watching to see how folks results come out.

[Firetech]

Have you checked out this comparison?
From reading through this thread there has really been no mention of 'quiet', 'passive' or any other spcr related topics. Is that important to you?

[QuietOC]

Always a great analytic thinking!I don't want to overclock,but the Intel board is a good product?Have you some reviews about it?Links?

Intel motherboard are generally very reliable. They just normally lack any sort of tweaking/overclocking options. You mentioned you wanted something reliable---the Intel branded parts should be good for that.

What is the difference between LCD and CRT in games?I have a CRT 19 inch now.

LCDs are fine for games. They suck for photos or movies. At least the inexpensive ones suck. Big pixels, no real black. They do save space and energy.

[QuietOC]

Why would you compare an E6300 ($229) to an X2 3800+ ($150) ?

Maybe: best performance/price?

The X2 3800+ is considerably cheaper than the cheapest Core 2 Duo. That is a big plus. The X2 3800+ can also run cooler/use less energy than the Core 2 E6300--that's another plus.

But, yes, The E6300 is often faster than an X2 4600+ (but occasionally slower). A 65W X2 4600+ should typically use less power than the Core 2 E6300--unless you constantly running a processor intensive task.

Given what the OP wants to spend there is no reason for him not to get the Core 2 Duo. The E6300 seems to be a slightly better deal than the X2 4600+. But he could also save some money with a cheaper X2 and not lose a lot of performance.

[NapalmDeath]

I read the AMD AM2 EE low power chips cost quite a bite more.
The X2 3800+ 35W part was $300, compared to the $150 of the standard part.

If you read the xbit article that fire posted above, it shows the conroe's coming in with much lower power. The guy who was getting 52C with the stock HSF must have been overclocking.

I get with my 3200+ 36C idle, and 44C load with an NT06.
So I would expect any other cpu I use to be 35C idle, 45C load or better. The Anand article said the E6300 did not get hot from idle to load, and that's interesting.

Also Asus has a P5B-VM motherboard coming out that's micro ATX.
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3 ... odelmenu=1

Figure it should be in the neighborhood of $80, a Conroe E6300 for $220, some DDR2 RAM 2x1Gig for $150, that's a platform swap for $450.
I just don't have faith that intel won't drop the 775 socket in 6 months.

I'll likely wait a bit to read more reports of how Conroe is working for folks and a micro ATX mobo.

[heertzy]

Wow!Too much information!
What about this "micro ATX" What are the benefits?

And AMD still remain in the race?But everybody speaks only about Conroe!!!
Is the best buy, best performer,less power consumption,outperform everithing, concluding, is a real hero!!!

I repeat,I don't overclock for the moment.I'm not an expert and this is my first pc that I make myself.
First choice was AMD,but was more difficult to choose the mobo,DDR(whith all these latencies)and cooling solutions for ocing.So Conroe seems to be less difficult to manage.And the rig previously indicated,seems affordble for me.
Maybe latter i'll change the mobo/CPU(i'll grab an E6600 with a good mobo)but for the moment....
Don't know , now is worse than 6 month ago

Thanks

[QuietOC]

I read the AMD AM2 EE low power chips cost quite a bite more. The X2 3800+ 35W part was $300, compared to the $150 of the standard part.

You should be able undervolt any X2 3800+ to the same power level as the "low-wattage" chips--at least down to 1.1V. I am not sure if the normal AM2 chips are able to be set lower than 1.1V.

[QuietOC]

What about this "micro ATX" What are the benefits?

Micro ATX is a standard for a 9.6" long motherboard with 4 expansion slots. It allows smaller cases. The difficultly is finding a good quality micro ATX motherboard--it is normally reserved for junk. The ASUS micro-ATX motherboards seem to be somewhat bad, but I have no experience with particular board. Biostar has several excellent micro ATX motherboards in their Tforce line--those are very good--and highly recommended.

And AMD still remain in the race?But everybody speaks only about Conroe!!!
Is the best buy, best performer,less power consumption,outperform everithing, concluding, is a real hero!!!

Conroe is not actually all that great for power consumption. It is certainly powerful, but the big power usage problem for the Conroes is that they can only clock down to 1.6GHz during idle--which requires considerable more power than the K8s which can clock down to 800 or 1000MHz when idle (and generally could run on much less voltage than AMD allows). Most power usage occurs when your CPU is sitting idle. So, the fact that Conroe is a little more efficient under load is completely lost. It is also ironic that Intel's second generation 65nm chips are hardly more power efficient than AMD's old 90nm chips.

But I don't think you will go wrong going with either AMD or Intel.

[heertzy]

But Conroe is certainly most power eficient than P D 9XX,isn't it?
And if is AMD,what skt;AM2 or 939?(No overclocking,in budget,no Vista,no DirectX 10,no SLI,no Crossfire)

[nutball]

And if is AMD,what skt;AM2 or 939?(No overclocking,in budget,no Vista,no DirectX 10,no SLI,no Crossfire)

You should factor your choice of CPU cooler into the decision between S939 and AM2. (Choosing AM2 will restrict your choice).

[Firetech]

Yes.
If you don't already have S939, forget it as it's now EOL. AM2 is the way to go if you have to go with AMD...
I really like my AMD but will be going C2D once availability & prices settle down.

[nutball]

If you don't already have S939, forget it as it's now EOL.

I think "forget it" is too strong -- S939 is still viable *if* you're 100% convinced you're not going to want to upgrade the processor & memory in the future. There is a good selection of well tested S939 motherboards available, and a better selection of coolers than for AM2.

In two or three months things may be different. To be honest now is a *really* bad time to be planning to build a new PC!

[Firetech]

The situation in the UK may be different but stocks of S939 in Oz are all but gone due to the recent price drops and subsequent buying frenzy. One last limited supply is due to arrive at the distributors soon, then that's it - forever.
So unless you're willing to chase around to find one, buy seconhand or go with the unscrupulous dealers and their "you must buy an MB with your X2 CPU to get this price" then, as I said, forget it.

[smilingcrow]

Conroe is not actually all that great for power consumption. It is certainly powerful, but the big power usage problem for the Conroes is that they can only clock down to 1.6GHz during idle--which requires considerable more power than the K8s which can clock down to 800 or 1000MHz when idle (and generally could run on much less voltage than AMD allows).

The CPU frequency at idle doesn’t seem to be important, it’s the voltage that is the issue. I measured the idle power consumption of a C2D system at 1.15V and it was the same at 1.6 GHz and 2.13 GHz; Speedstep was disabled. I’m deducing from this that even if the clock was reduced to 1 GHz by Speedstep, if the voltage was the same the power consumption wouldn’t be reduced!

1.15V was the lowest voltage that I could achieve with C2D, but I can’t say whether this limitation is inherent with C2D chips or whether it was due to the motherboard that I used. With 1.6 GHz being the lowest Speedstep speed, there isn’t much room to reduce the voltage safely anyway I imagine.
AMD do have a lot more headroom, so it’s a real shame that they penalize themselves with the 1.1V limit. The end result is that there may not be much difference between the two CPUs at idle, a bigger difference is likely to be seen with the choice of motherboard & RAM.

[heertzy]

In two or three months things may be different. To be honest now is a *really* bad time to be planning to build a new PC!

Two month ago was too a"really"bad time to be planning to build a new PC!
Two month later will be the same..I need it now,before september.

Can you give me an example of good selection Mobo/CPU/DDR,for skt939?


Thanks

[nutball]

Can you give me an example of good selection Mobo/CPU/DDR,for skt939?

Well I can tell you what I'm running in my rig. I don't know anything about prices outside the UK, so I'm just using Newegg as a reference:

Athlon 64 X2 3800+ $147
Gigabyte K8N-SLI ATX motherboard $83 (yes I know it's SLI but you don't *have* to use it SLI, the important point is it supports undervolting and has a passive northbridge)
2x1GB Crucial PC3200 DDR $206

Total $436. Throw on a Scythe Ninja ($50?) and you're good to go. A few dollars over your budget but I'm sure you could knock the price down if you shop around (anyway you didn't specify whether an HSF was in your $460 budget).

Are there cheaper options? Possibly. Are there better options? Probably. Are there cheaper, better options? Who knows. My point is S939 is still a viable, in stock now, solution.

Anyway I've been running this rig for 3-4 months now and it's been rock steady. It does Photoshop very well, it's fine for games (though that's more a function of the graphics card)

[QuietOC]

In two or three months things may be different. To be honest now is a *really* bad time to be planning to build a new PC!

Two month ago was too a"really"bad time to be planning to build a new PC!
Two month later will be the same..I need it now,before september.

Summer is generally a low-demand period for computers. So, now is probably a good time to buy--just don't be put off when new hardware is released for the Christmas buying season.

[nutball]

What I meant was that two months ago it was easy to build an "I want it quiet and I want it now" system because there was only one "best" solution. Now there are three!

[heertzy]

What I meant was that two months ago it was easy to build an "I want it quiet and I want it now" system because there was only one "best" solution. Now there are three!

Right!The problem is I can't wait anymore!
939 has a good price but outdated!
Conroe is the best performer but...expensive and immature mobos.
AM2 is for the future but is still an expensive rig. and not outperform 939 for much.
Pentum D 9XX is below the line.

So which is the right solution?


Thanks

[smilingcrow]

Right!The problem is I can't wait anymore!
939 has a good price but outdated!
Conroe is the best performer but...expensive and immature mobos.
AM2 is for the future but is still an expensive rig. and not outperform 939 for much.
Pentum D 9XX is below the line.

So which is the right solution?
Thanks

There’s rarely a simple answer as there are too many variables. To get the best advice you need to put down all your criteria clearly. Such as:

Are you prepared to over-clock?
How important is future upgradeability?
Do you have legacy AGP cards or DDR RAM that you’d like to use?
What’s your preferred budget?
Do you have a bias for or against particular manufacturers?
Is low system power consumption important for you?
How much performance do you ideally require?

The clearer you can make your requirements then the more precise people can be with their recommendations.

[QuietOC]

AM2 is for the future but is still an expensive rig. and not outperform 939 for much.

AM2 does not outperform S939. AM2 does seem to have slightly newer, and slightly more power efficient CPUs, but in no way does the AM2 platform outperform the S939 platform.

And I wouldn't say AM2 is the future--at best it is a present. I believe AMD has already announced that they are going to DDR3.

Also there is a good article at Anadtech today showing that DDR2 often slower than a few year old DDR chipset for running Core 2 Duos too. See this page

[nutball]

939 has a good price but outdated!

Outdated in what respect? Outdated in the sense that when you tell people on forums you've just bought an S939 system they laugh at you because it's not The Latest(TM)? Or outdated because it just stopped functioning in some magic way on the day AM2 came out?

AM2 offers little or nothing more than S939 at your budget levels except future upgradability. You've already stated that you don't want to upgrade "every six months". So what exactly about S939 is outdated? See the problem is you haven't really given us enough information to understand why this thread is now two pages long. What's the problem?

Conroe is the best performer but...expensive and immature mobos.
AM2 is for the future but is still an expensive rig. and not outperform 939 for much.
Pentum D 9XX is below the line.

So which is the right solution?

Frankly, if you don't know the answer to that question after a thread this long then you haven't been listening! There is no "right" solution right now, there are currently three very viable solutions all with their pros and cons. They're all good in places, they're all bad in places.

Make a decision, or hell flip a coin. If you get it wrong, learn a lesson from your mistake!

[Rusty075]

AM2 does not outperform S939...

And I wouldn't say AM2 is the future--at best it is a present. I believe AMD has already announced that they are going to DDR3

AM2 will outperform 939, in the sense that higher-clocked CPU's will only be released in AM2 form, so if you're looking for future upgrade possibilities for performance its the way to go, but yes there's no real performance benefit to the DDR2 switch yet.

AM2 chips look, at the moment, like they will be compatible with future DDR3 motherboards, at least according to what AMD has told its OEM's. s775 will almsot certainly, not be.

[smilingcrow]

939 has a good price but outdated!

Outdated in what respect?.....

It has no upgrade path to AM3 chips which an AM2 motherboard has to a degree.
It’s extremely unlikely that AMD will release 65nm CPUs for S939, so again no upgrade path.
PC3200 is currently typically more expensive than PC2-5300 and has pretty much no future use whereas DDR2 should be around for a couple of years.

If you’re building a new system from scratch I personally wouldn’t even consider S939. What advantage does it have?

[QuietOC]

939 has a good price but outdated!

Outdated in what respect?.....

It has no upgrade path to AM3 chips which an AM2 motherboard has to a degree.
It’s extremely unlikely that AMD will release 65nm CPUs for S939, so again no upgrade path.

Really everything you are claiming is speculation. It is more likely that AM3 chips will not work in AM2 motherboards--just like most LGA775 motherboards don't work with Core 2 Duo chips.

If you’re building a new system from scratch I personally wouldn’t even consider S939. What advantage does it have?

S939 seems to run cooler than AM2--one small advantage. Cheaper motherboards/CPUs/memory?

[smilingcrow]

Really everything you are claiming is speculation. It is more likely that AM3 chips will not work in AM2 motherboards--just like most LGA775 motherboards don't work with Core 2 Duo chips.

If you’re building a new system from scratch I personally wouldn’t even consider S939. What advantage does it have?

S939 seems to run cooler than AM2--one small advantage. Cheaper motherboards/CPUs/memory?

I thought AMD had formally announced that AM3 and AM2 had some kind of symbiotic relationship! That’s probably the wrong word but you can deduce what I mean.

Cheaper memory - not in my experience.
Cheaper CPUs - again not in my experience and the new reduced cache and cheaper X2 3500/3600 (not sure which) will be AM2 only surely!
Cheaper motherboards – if you are buying the absolute cheapest board then for now I imagine that this is true. But, who buys these anyway and does $10 really make a difference?
Lower power consumption – unless you can show a meaningful difference here, I’m going to assume that you are clutching at straws here again, like most of your post. Don’t forget, the low power X2 chips (EE & EESFF) are AM2 only, so I can’t see how S939 can win this one.
Seem to run cooler – Can you be more vague! Who cares if it’s a couple of degrees cooler?

Come on QuietOC I think you have your head in the sand here. If you’re building a new system from scratch AM2 is the way to go in preference to S939. If I’m wrong then you are going to have to give me a much better argument to convince me than you have so far. I’ll be honest though, as a pure AMD only system builder for the last 4 years or so, I don’t consider AMD even in the game these days. So S939 v AM2 is purely academic for me, I’m just trying to give an unbiased view on the S939 v AM2 debate. I still think AMD offer good solutions, just not for my current needs, but that wouldn’t stop me recommending them to others if I think it’s appropriate.

[QuietOC]

So which is the right solution?

My experience with computers tells me your best bet is to just buy what you need for now. It is generally better to spend less now--as long as you spend enough to get good quality. Even people who choose the worst possible choices for what they want to do can be pleased with what they get. So, don't worry too much about it.

[jaganath]

I’ll be honest though, as a pure AMD only system builder for the last 4 years or so, I don’t consider AMD even in the game these days.

Yes, for now Intel is king of the heap with Conroe/Merom etc; but who knows what will come with AM3 and beyond. For people who are looking at the long-term (ie more than 1 year!) the decision is not so clear-cut.

[heertzy]

There’s rarely a simple answer as there are too many variables. To get the best advice you need to put down all your criteria clearly. Such as:
Are you prepared to over-clock?
How important is future upgradeability?
Do you have legacy AGP cards or DDR RAM that you’d like to use?
What’s your preferred budget?
Do you have a bias for or against particular manufacturers?
Is low system power consumption important for you?
How much performance do you ideally require?

Maybe,I'll try
Not important,later i'll sell it.Two month ago I wonted to grab an 3200+ venice.Now on the same price i can grab a 4400+ Toledo.Good enough?
NO,I have only a PCI express card.
460 $
No For me AMD = Intel
Yes,less power consumption is important.My PC will work at least 10 hours/day
Medium to high

Thanks for your advices and forgive me if this thread is so long.I'm a newbie here