ASUS, Gigabyte or ABIT P35 board for Q6600?

krille · Post by **krille** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:50 am

Hey!

I'm not sure what to get. According to The Tech Report the ASUS boards are some 30-40W hotter than the Gigabyte and ABIT. If this is the case ASUS is a big no-no.
However, AnandTech thinks the difference is more like 2-3W.

Does anyone know who is right here?

I don't really care about 2-3W but 20-30W does matter.

Are the top-boards from each company otherwise solid and stable performers?

Thank you!

~ Kris

burebista · Post by **burebista** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:56 am

AnandTech...

XBit Labs seconds Tech Report.

I'd choose ABIT IP35 Pro.

Snowdog · Post by **Snowdog** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:54 am

I am building a new computer and going with a Gigabyte. The Ultra Durable 2 with excellent high quality power components look like a winner to me. Should last forever, use less power, produce less heat.

krille · Post by **krille** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:19 am

Ok, thank you two very much for the link and input!

Definitely not ASUS then, it's simply put not worth risking the higher heat.

Now the question remains, ABIT or GIGABYTE?!

edit: Btw, I value stability higher than performance/overclocking potential. I always want my systems 24/7 stable.

edit2: On second though, what about the ASUS P5K-Premium and ASUS Blitz Formula boards? Any chance they produce 20-30W less than P5K-Deluxe (and are on level with the competition)?

zerok66 · Post by **zerok66** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:54 am

I chose the gigabyte too with DDR 2/3 support.

I was tempted by the Q6600 but was unable to find the B0 stepping and so settled for the E6750 - more that quick enough and nice and cool. Both cores idle between 15-20 degrees c

krille · Post by **krille** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:01 am

zerok66 wrote:I chose the gigabyte too with DDR 2/3 support.

I was tempted by the Q6600 but was unable to find the B0 stepping and so settled for the E6750 - more that quick enough and nice and cool. Both cores idle between 15-20 degrees c

Wow. What's your ambient temperature man? That's impressive.

Btw, the best Q6600 stepping atm is G0. The one that used to be best was B3. Are you sure you don't mean G0?

Anyway, now I just gotta figure out what stepping's good for a dual-core.

I still wonder about Blitz and Premium though.

leftheaded · Post by **leftheaded** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:31 am

XtremeTiramisu over at xtremesystems owns the deluxe and just got a premium. i think he's going to do some comparisons, or at least he'll be able to comment on the heat differences.

ryboto · Post by **ryboto** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:53 am

I just helped a friend build a system with the GA-P35C-DS3R, DDR2/3 support, and a Q6600. It works great. Fan control was strange. I'm fond of Abit's uguru controls. Even though they're limited to 8v min, if you already have decent low speed fans, it shouldn't be an issue. I vote for the Abit.

Snowdog · Post by **Snowdog** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:29 am

This also caught my eye from the Xbit review of the Gigabyte:

The second distinguishing feature of the Ultra Durable 2 series is the six-channel processor voltage regulator circuitry built with high-frequency Low RDS(on) MOSFET. This circuitry design ensures not only longer lifetime, but also higher efficiency of the voltage regulator and lower operational temperatures. By the way, this is exactly the reason why the processor voltage regulator on Gigabyte P35C-DS3R has no heatsinks: it simply doesnâ€™t get hot.

While the Abit attaches a heatsink with heatpipe to cool power components. Gigabyte uses superior components that just don't get hot. This plus legacy port support (serial, parallel), seals the deal for me.

croupier · Post by **croupier** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:22 pm

I've heard good things about the Abit fan control. The IP35-Pro has 6 fan connectors (all controllable by the BIOS), which is a definite plus. I'm not sure how many the Gigabytes have, but I think the ASUS has 4 (not all controllable by the BIOS, only 2 are i think). If you have a fan controller then these features are moot, but i don't have a fan controller.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:27 pm

Snowdog wrote: While the Abit attaches a heatsink with heatpipe to cool power components. Gigabyte uses superior components that just don't get hot. This plus legacy port support (serial, parallel), seals the deal for me.

I don't see how that's any evidence of "superior components" compared to the Abit - if it were that simple, you'd have to conclude that Gigabyte use "inferior components" on their top-end motherboards, which sport a glittering array of heatpipes and heatsinks...

krille · Post by **krille** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:37 am

So in short:

ABIT - Better fan controller supporting more fans.

Gigabyte - Less power consumption.

Are those the main differences? Which one has less vdroop in conjunction with a quad (OC'd Q6600)?

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:39 am

The Gigabyte board has capacitors that won't leak over time. Can't remember the material they are made from, but this is small point in favor of the Gigabyte.

I'm not sure if it's all marketing-hype, or just half hype and half relevant, but the Ultra durable claims do appeal to me: Gygabyte Ultra Durable.

krille · Post by **krille** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:53 am

Well, it sounds good. Are the Gigabyte boards otherwise rock stable? (Even while overclocking "a bit"...?)

Except for features such as RAID, Sata ports, do all GA boards overclock the same, feature the same build quality or is the top-end definitely the one to pick?

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:17 am

Wedge wrote:The Gigabyte board has capacitors that won't leak over time. Can't remember the material they are made from, but this is small point in favor of the Gigabyte.

I'm not sure if it's all marketing-hype, or just half hype and half relevant, but the Ultra durable claims do appeal to me: Gygabyte Ultra Durable.

The Abit has all solid capacitors as well (I'm not a self-appointed Abit evangelist, it just seems that all the points made so far in favour of the Gigabyte apply equally to the IP35 Pro).

I've been lucky enough never to have suffered from leaking capacitors, and I'm sure decent quality standard electrolytic caps would last for the useful lifetime of a motherboard anyway, but it's definitely a selling point if for no other reason than solid caps look nicer.

I honestly don't think there's anything much to choose between the boards as regards low-level design and build quality - they both seem to be rock-solid products, so it's just a case of comparing features and deciding which will be more useful to you (if that's not stating the obvious too much).

/edit: if I were choosing, the uGuru fan controls would be the deciding factor which would swing me Abits way...

walle · Post by **walle** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:07 am

review

It works as a charm, and knock on wood gents, no leaks as of yet eitherâ€¦puuh!

Risks excluded; donâ€™t favour one board over the other based on capacitors, it shouldnâ€™t even be an influential factor. Either of those are quality boards, and as nick705 "pointed" out, pick the one you view as best suited for you and your system.

cheers

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:56 am

True point about capacitors. I didn't mean to imply that they might leak at some point, though I do see how it might have been perceived that way. But yes, solid capacitors do look nice

Though all 3 boards, Abit, Gigabyte, and Asus, are tier 1 in terms of quality, I was just pointing out the fact that Gigabyte's marketing approach of saying "hey, we are paying attention to quality and engineering design more so than than gimmicky extras that you may or may not use" makes more sense to me and is quite appealing.

As for krille's question: everything I have read about the Gigabyte "ultra durable" boards have been positive. From top to bottom. You don't have to buy the top model to get the superior quality.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:06 am

ryboto wrote:I just helped a friend build a system with the GA-P35C-DS3R, DDR2/3 support, and a Q6600. It works great. Fan control was strange. I'm fond of Abit's uguru controls. Even though they're limited to 8v min, if you already have decent low speed fans, it shouldn't be an issue. I vote for the Abit.

Limited to 8v minimum? Not good enough for me unless I can use a Zalman controller (can't think of the name of those little things right now).

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:52 am

I'll give my two cents if anyone cares.

I've been debating between these two mb companies and similar boards:
DS3R v.s. Abit IP35. Not the C-series of the Gigabyte or the Pro series of the Abit. Why? I think we'll be upgrading again and the fact that I don't really like the idea of mixing boards with various combinations. You can't combine the RAM so if you buy one type, you restricted yourself to that and if you decide to upgrade, you need to sell your DDR2 ram or stick in another computer. It's fine if you own multiple computers. Anyway, I did consider the one with both RAM options but someone convinced me to look at the cheaper alternative, the DS3R.

The Abit IP35 is a bit more expensive and I learned there is some double boot problem that occurs. It's only a cold boot, though, I think. As of the current date, there isn't a BIOS update that fixes that. The Pro version doesn't have the problem. It's a minor thing, I think, but it is about $20 or $40 more than the Gigabyte board.

I still cannot decide which board to get but I am leaning towards the DS3R because of price. I don't know why fan controllers are the reason to tip a decision one way or the other. Maybe someone can explain? I would just manually change it. Why not? Or use software although I know that is not preferable over the Abit uGuru system. But, the Abit boards are more money.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:48 am

Fan control is a pretty big thing here. If you are serious about running a quiet PC, you must be able to change fan speeds. To change fan speeds, you need to know ahead of time (read: before purchasing the motherboard) exactly what options are available for slowing fan speed.

Now that I have stated the obvious

I would say that basically it boils down to convenience. Yes, fan speeds can be reduced through several means. One way may seem more onerous than another, but that's really based on perception.

For me, I don't mind buying a Zalman Fan Mate and reducing speed to my liking, then leaving it. But others might want to control the fans on-the-fly while computing.

No need to exploit this subject too much in this thread. Just know that for most people here, how to control the fan speed is a very big concern. For the average PC user, I'm sure it is a non-issue altogether. But for us silent freaks, it is certainly considered when shopping for a motherboard.

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:01 pm

Thanks for the info, Wedge. I want something fairly silent as I want a HTPC setup and sometimes you need silence to hear something on the TV!

Is undervolting the motherboard a way of reducing fan speeds? What is that done for?

Also, which is most convenient or better value?

The Gigabyte board which can undervolt or the Abit boards with fan speed controller?

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:27 pm

pputer wrote:Thanks for the info, Wedge. I want something fairly silent as I want a HTPC setup and sometimes you need silence to hear something on the TV!

Is undervolting the motherboard a way of reducing fan speeds? What is that done for?

Also, which is most convenient or better value?

The Gigabyte board which can undervolt or the Abit boards with fan speed controller?

Undervolting the motherboard is a way of reducing heat produce by the CPU, which in turn means there is less urgency for removing it quickly, which means slower running fans can be used.

Which is more convenient? Assuming you can reduce the voltage (i.e., the motherboard supports it), then lowering it isn't difficult at all. But the same can be said for reducing fan speed. So, again, convenience here is really based on an individual's perception.

Which is a better value? The method that produces the most output, given a single unit of input is always the better value. So really you pose an interesting, hard-to-quantify, question. But I would say you should start with lowering fan speed first, given stock voltage. The reason? It is safer to assume that the PC is stable at stock voltage than it is undervolted. I would try to find the minimum fan speed the CPU can tolerate at stock voltage, then proceed to undervolt, which requires testing and more testing.

/edit
I sort of didn't really answer your question regarding Abit vs Gigabyte. This is strictly preference. I mentioned that the Abit uGuru software, while sounding impressive, would not suit my needs. I already know beforehand that I will be undervolting 2 fans, possibly 3, less than 8v. It was stated earlier that the uGuru software will NOT go lower than 8v. For some this might be okay, but from my experience with undervolting, it really isn't. Again, though, this is personal preference. So I really can't tell you which board has better value.

What might help us to help you would be for you to list your 5 most important features of a motherboard. List them in order of importance. From there, we might be able to steer you in the right direction.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:45 pm

pputer wrote: I don't know why fan controllers are the reason to tip a decision one way or the other. Maybe someone can explain? I would just manually change it. Why not? Or use software although I know that is not preferable over the Abit uGuru system. But, the Abit boards are more money.

Abit's uGuru/FanEQ is unique (at least I don't know of any other mobo that incorporates anything similar). For each independent fan header (six on the IP-35 Pro, eight on the older AW9D-Max), it allows you to specifically set upper and lower temperature thresholds, and upper and lower fan speeds at those thresholds, with automatic variation across the range. Other mobos may incorporate something along the same lines, but with nowhere near as much granular control. Furthermore, you can couple the speed of a particular fan to *any* temperature sensor (CPU, system or VRM) - that means if you have, say, a 3-pin 120mm CPU heatsink fan that doesn't have PWM control, you can simply plug it into a SYS fan header and still have it automatically regulated by the CPU temperature - on most mobos, you'd have to plug it into the 4-pin CPU header and lose any inbuilt capability to vary the speed.

It's a very elegant and convenient "set and forget" way to automatically regulate all your fans - with manual fan controllers you have to keep fiddling with them if the load varies much, or simply set them permanently to whatever speed gives adequate cooling at maximum load (and still have to allow for variations in ambient temperatures). You could alternatively go for an automatic system like the mCubed T-Balancer, but that's another 40GBP/80USD as well as a load of extra cable mess.

The Abit system isn't perfect - the later BIOSes only allow a range of 8V to 12V on the system fan headers (although they still allow a 30% to 100% duty cycle range on the 4-pin CPU header), but it's still streets ahead of anything else (have a look at Asus's woefully inept Q-fan as a comparison).

There's always SpeedFan of course, which does much the same thing, but most motherboards don't seem to fully support it, it's Windows-only, and in any case many people are uncomfortable with fan controls being dependent on the OS running without glitches.

Hope this explains my enthusiasm for Abit, at least...

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:39 pm

Which Abit motherboards offer the uGuru fan control? It appears the IP35 board doesn't have it, only the Pro version. There's a mark against them right there.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:52 pm

Well, no, the vanilla IP35 and IP-35-E don't have uGuru, but they're much cheaper than the Pro, so why is it a mark against them?

If the fan controls won't be useful to you then yes, you might as well save a bit of cash and go for the DS3R if it does everything you want...

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:42 pm

nick705 wrote:Well, no, the vanilla IP35 and IP-35-E don't have uGuru, but they're much cheaper than the Pro, so why is it a mark against them?

If the fan controls won't be useful to you then yes, you might as well save a bit of cash and go for the DS3R if it does everything you want...

The vanilla board is $30 cheaper than the Pro. If the feature is so useful, why leave it off their other boards? I *do* think it would be useful but to pay extra for it? I dunno...

I was looking at them all and was considering the Abit so don't get me wrong. I just think it's pretty shabby of them to only have it on their 'top' board. Even the Pro version doesn't do so great in most benchmarks v.s. the Asus and Gigabyte boards. But, I concluded it would make a good board for a HTPC so that is why I had it neck and neck with the Gigabyte. But, the DS3R board is way cheaper than the vanilla or Pro board and apparently, you can undervolt it.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:18 pm

pputer wrote: The vanilla board is $30 cheaper than the Pro. If the feature is so useful, why leave it off their other boards? I *do* think it would be useful but to pay extra for it? I dunno...

Because many people have no need for it, and would therefore like to have the choice of not paying for a feature they'll never use? I feel like we're in a kind of circular argument here...

You could equally argue that it's "shabby" of Asus to only include a wi-fi controller on their top-end boards, or any of them for not having two 16x PCIe slots throughout their ranges. Horses for courses and all that - you asked earlier why the Abit's fan controls would tip the decision one way or another, and I tried to explain the benefits (at least for my own particular set of priorities).

Anyway, I do agree that Gigabyte are producing quality products these days, and I doubt if you'll be disappointed with the DS3R, if you've checked it out and it has the features you need.

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:49 pm

Yeah, you're right. I read a review of P35 motherboard comparisons and the Abit had the best bios/fan controller setup. If it wasn't so pricey, I'd probably go with the Pro.

The Gigabyte board gets good reviews and people sound generally satisfied with it.

I think Asus has shot itself in the foot with their most recent boards. You might be able to argue about the other boards' flaws but I have consistently read about recent Asus boards have the heat/power consumption problems. Their P5K boards do well in benchmarks but the Gigabyte and others are neck and neck with them for the most part or better performers in other cases. If you have a choice between similar boards, you're not going to choose the one producing significantly more heat. But, Asus is widely available and can be one of only two or three choices at retailers. But, I still see them losing customers for the poor design of recent boards.

krille · Post by **krille** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:32 am

It seems Abit's P35 boards lack even a single LPT parallel port and I need one for my printer. So I guess they're out for me, even though uGuru and the Abit fan controller look mighty interesting.

As I also want firewire / IEE1394 it all boils down to these boards:

GA-P35-DQ6(rev. 1.x)
- Quad Triple Phase / Virtual 12 Phase
- Quad BIOS
- All Copper Silent-Pipe, Crazy Cool
- eSATAII: 4 (by cable)
GA-P35-DS4(rev. 1.2)
- ??? Phase
- DualBIOS Plus
- All Copper Silent-Pipe, Crazy Cool
- eSATAII: 2 (by cable)
GA-P35-DS3P(rev. 1.x)
- ã€€6 Phase Power
- DualBIOS Plus
- Heat Sink on NB and sb
- eSATAII: 2 (by cable)

1) The higher phase power, the better. But does it really matter? Will the difference be noticable with an OC'd quad-core, thus justifying the price difference? Would higher phase power decrease vdroop?

2) What "phase power" does the DS4 have? 8 Phase? (2x3=6, 2x6=12 => 2x4=8)?

3) Frankly, I don't even know what Quad BIOS or DualBIOS Plus is supposed to mean. Again, does it matter / justify the price difference?

4) As for heat sinking - the more the better of course. But is it useful having the upgraded "Crazy Cool" heatsink? Does it justify the price difference? Or should it be ignored completely if Thermalright aftermarket chipset and mosfet cooling is required anyway?

5) Do voltage options and overclocking potential differ much at all between these boards?

6) What do Q, S, P, R, etc in Gigabyte GA naming schemes stand for / mean anyway? What about the number (3,4,6)?

I think that about covers it for now, great thanks so far everyone.

This probably deserves it's own thread though...

krille · Post by **krille** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:29 am

I forgot the fourth option. Abit IP35 Pro with LPT adapter (USB probably). That would give me the Abit uGuru fan controller. And upon reflecting over the matter a bit, I like it more and more. But I like my printer too.
Is there a software fan controller for the Gigabyte boards that would do the same? (Ie dynamically adjust fan speeds with temps/load.) I really want that feature... Maybe I'll get the USB2

pputer wrote:I think Asus has shot itself in the foot with their most recent boards. You might be able to argue about the other boards' flaws but I have consistently read about recent Asus boards have the heat/power consumption problems. Their P5K boards do well in benchmarks but the Gigabyte and others are neck and neck with them for the most part or better performers in other cases. If you have a choice between similar boards, you're not going to choose the one producing significantly more heat.

Actually ASUS' P5K line is the current definite favorite of OC'ers at the moment. They couldn't care less about the "heat" (they think of it as a feature, not an issue) as ASUS' P5K line provides the least vdroop of all boards (in conjunction with quads). Myself, I'm not a pure OC'er so I'm staying away from it, but just ask around over at XS and you'll see.