What to get AMD 690G or Nvidia 7050?

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Kato
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What to get AMD 690G or Nvidia 7050?

Post by Kato » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:02 am

Can any of these onboard graphics solutions playback 1080p mkv smothly?
I was all set to get Gigabyte MA69-S2H but now i see there is a new Nvidea chipset aimed at the HTPC market.

Dhurdahl
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Post by Dhurdahl » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:12 am

Im running a ABIT AN-M2HD (7050pv) with a X2 4800.

Working perfectly with 1080p mkv's.
HDMI works out of the box.

No issues at all!

Greg F.
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EvGA

Post by Greg F. » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:15 am

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813188023

FYI I believe this board has a lifetime warranty, and for only about fifty bucks after rebate.

Kato
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Post by Kato » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:50 am

Well newegg is not going to work for me since i am from Slovenia, Evga is very hard to find. I have found very few boards with 7050 chipset:

Biostar TF7050-M2 , it is about 75€ but it needs a replacment heatsink that is another 20€ plus i don`t know if it is a quality product.

On the 690G there are many boards from Gigabyte, Asus, MSI,...

Kato
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Post by Kato » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:35 am

I found another one:

EVGA NF77 for 110€

What i realy whant is GA-73UM-S2H, unfortunatly it is not in Slovenia yet.

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Post by Lawrence Lee » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:41 am

If it's using encoded using x264 (which many TV shows and movies are available in, not that I would know), all modern ATI/nVidia chipsets will handle it with ease.

Kato
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Post by Kato » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:47 am

So you are saying if i get the Biostar TF7050-M2 and let say X2 4000 i could play x264 mkv files, the thing is i have a X2 4200 and 6600GT and that plays everything well except x264 mkv those stress the CPU to about 80% and the thing is unwatchable.

Another question:
I plan to buy the sapphire 3850 512MB passive version it is to replace my 6600GT do you think it would fit on the Biostar mobo?
http://en.expreview.com/?p=70

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Post by RedAE102 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:30 pm

I'm running a Biostar TF7050-M2 and an X2 3600+. I only have a 19" LCD (1440x900 native), so 1080p is a bit of overkill for me. Being the adventurous type, though, I had to at least try it once. It played back a 1080p x264/mkv file with no issues at all. CPU did spend a lot of time at 1.9 GHz, but it took it in stride. Playback was smooth, no stuttering.

That said, all of my HD content is 720P, which this setup handles flawlessly even when locked at 1GHz.

BTW... Greg, that board you linked to is an Intel 7050 board. All of the 7000 series for Intel lack the PureVideo support, and thus, lack the x264 acceleration of the 7050PV for AMD.
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aristide1
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Post by aristide1 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:16 pm

You couldn't pay me to deal with any more ATI video drivers.

:shock:
People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither patriots nor human beings.

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Post by aristide1 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:17 pm

Get the Biostar TForce 7050 board. It has a 2.2 volt jumper to help you get your memory started or to really get moving. It also had solid caps around the cpu.
People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither patriots nor human beings.

Kato
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Post by Kato » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:55 am

Ok this is the system as it stands:

Biostar TForce 7050-M2
AM2 3800 X2 BOX 35W
OCZ 1GB DDR2 PC2-6400 Gold GX XTC
SAMSUNG HD501LJ 500GB
FSP Group ZEN 300W
Scythe NINJA SCNJ-1100 PLUS rev. B
Thermalright HR-05 IFX

Any thoughts on this configuration, do you think that the Zen is powerfull enough for this config and 3850 512Mb?

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Post by QuietOC » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:53 am

Kato wrote:Biostar TForce 7050-M2
As one who purchased the TForce 6100 S754 very early and used it very happily for a long time, I was very disappointed in the TForce 7050-M2. It completely lacks undervolting options, only overvolts RAM, can't overclock at all. Seems to be a basic appliance motherboard like any other you can buy. Not sure where the blame is, but it seems a step backward to me. If you don't demand much from it, it should be fine.

Kato
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Post by Kato » Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:34 pm

So you are saying that you can not overclock with this board but Amourek has overclocked a 1,9Mhz CPU to 2,7Mhz with TF7025-M2 it is hard to believe that these two boards are so different.

Greg F.
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Ok RED

Post by Greg F. » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:10 pm

good info, that's why I come to this forum. Thanks.

RedAE102
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Post by RedAE102 » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:47 pm

Yes, the TF7050-M2 and TF7025-M2 are both capable of overclocking, but have zero undervolting options in the BIOS, so for Linux, this board is a no-no.
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Kato
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Post by Kato » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:36 am

Well linux is not realy a factor for me.

RedAE102:
I see you are using this board , any problems, would you recommend it?

RedAE102
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Post by RedAE102 » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am

Yes, I'd recommend this board, with reservations which I'll mention below. I haven't had much experience with retail boards, but this Biostar board has served me well thus far.

Reservations: I have not found a working driver for the audio part of the HDMI for the 7050 chipset, so during the time that my system runs MediaPortal (sort of like MythTV for Windows) in my family room, it only runs a basic stereo audio connection via 3.5mm miniplug-to-RCA cable. On that front, it also lacks an S/PDIF optical output, which would allow me to overlook the lack of HDMI audio functionality. The 1.95V minimum memory voltage is also a concern for some, but it falls within the 1.80-2.00V acceptable range for my Kingston ValueRAM.

You also mentioned this board needing an aftermarket heatsink. I disagree. With minimal airflow, the heatsink does get hot, but not burning hot. I've had my hand on it for 15+ seconds without any discomfort, let alone burns.
Desktop: Athlon II X2 250 | MSI 785GT-E63 | Scythe Ninja | 6GB DDR2-800 | 2xWD6400AAKS & HD154UI | HIS HD4670 512MB | Solo | S12-330 | Win7 Pro x64
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Post by QuietOC » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:48 am

Kato wrote:So you are saying that you can not overclock with this board but Amourek has overclocked a 1,9Mhz CPU to 2,7Mhz with TF7025-M2 it is hard to believe that these two boards are so different.
The 7025 may be better overclocker than the 7050. The latter is sort of an overclocked IGP version of the latter. The 6100/6150 situation was similar. My TF6100 S754 could do a CPU HT of 315 MHz just fine--didn't even reduce the HT multiplier. The 6150 boards I tried (S939) could only do about 250MHz. The AM2 TF7050 couldn't even do a HT link of 250MHz or so. I have a 690G coming for my next AM2 motherboard.

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Post by jojo4u » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:05 am


Kato
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Post by Kato » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:38 am

Ok i have chosen the Biostar, now for the CPU:
AM2 3800 X2 BOX 35W 65€
AM2 4000 X2 BOX 65W 59€

Components:
MOBO: Biostar TForce 7050-M2 75€
CPU: ?
RAM: OCZ 1GB DDR2 PC2-6400 Gold GX XTC 25€
PSU: FSP Group ZEN 300W 75€
DISK: SAMSUNG HD501LJ 500GB 110€
BURNER:NEC, AD-7170S sata BULK 25€
MISC: Black pleksi glass +wire mesh 40€
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 410 or 415€

The Ninja and the HR-5 will come latter on.

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Post by QuietOC » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:43 pm

Kato wrote: AM2 3800 X2 BOX 35W 65€
AM2 4000 X2 BOX 65W 59€
The fractional 10.5x mulitplier on the X2 4000+ isn't helpful. I am not sure why AMD is choosing to run half multipiers and the resulting lower memory performance on its 65nm chips.

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Post by Burette » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:26 am

QuietOC wrote:
Kato wrote: AM2 3800 X2 BOX 35W 65€
AM2 4000 X2 BOX 65W 59€
The fractional 10.5x mulitplier on the X2 4000+ isn't helpful. I am not sure why AMD is choosing to run half multipiers and the resulting lower memory performance on its 65nm chips.
Edited:
I sent with no comments.

QuietOC, I am not sure I understand this. Could you be more specific please
[size=75]Biostar TF7050-M2 | AMD 4000+ 2100 MHz with FSB @ 228 MHz = 2394 MHz| OCZ Platinum 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-15 | Antec SOLO | Corsair VX450 | Ninja b | 1X Scythe Minebea 120 mm @ 750 rpm | 1X Nexus 92mm @ 750 rpm[/size]
[url=http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45332]My TF7050-M2 Review[/url]

QuietOC
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Post by QuietOC » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:39 am

Burette wrote:QuietOC, I am not sure I understand this. Could you be more specific please
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_65nm/2.shtml

The 4000+ runs DDR2-800 at DDR2-700 speed. All because of that .5 part of the CPU multiplier.

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Post by RedAE102 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:47 pm

QuietOC wrote:The 4000+ runs DDR2-800 at DDR2-700 speed. All because of that .5 part of the CPU multiplier.
It's not limited to the half multipliers; odd multipliers are guilty of this as well. A 2.2 (4200+) will run it at DDR2-733, and a 2.3 (4400+) will run it at DDR2-766. DDR2-800 will only be run at full DDR2-800 speed with even multipliers, minimum 10x/2GHz because of the minimum CPU/5 divider. So the only processor speeds which will run the DDR2-800 at full speed are 2GHz, 2.4 GHz, 2.8 GHz, and 3.2 GHz (any multiple of 400). DDR2-667 only runs at full speed at 2GHz and 3GHz. I made a spreadsheet detailing the different memory dividers and their resulting speeds for both the AM2 and 939/754. It was originally for figuring out overclocking speeds, so it still serves that purpose as well. If anyone would like it, I can e-mail it to them. Otherwise, I'll put it into a JPEG and post it on Flickr.
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:47 pm

aristide1 wrote:You couldn't pay me to deal with any more ATI video drivers.

:shock:
you should try nvidia drivers not working for a solid year. that really sucked.

On the whole though, nvidia puts out better drivers. If you go ATI you use Omega drivers. they beat out anything nvidia or ati makes. I only buy ati so I can use Omega drivers. (no overhead on their utilities as well!)

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Post by Burette » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:44 pm

QuietOC wrote:
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_65nm/2.shtml

The 4000+ runs DDR2-800 at DDR2-700 speed. All because of that .5 part of the CPU multiplier.
Please enlight me in this.

In term of overall PC performance and because I am not willing to pay 60$ more on CPU, would you say that:

It is better to run a lighter performing CPU with full memory performance like:
ADA3800CWBOX AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Socket AM2 Orleans 2.4GHZ 512KB 90NM 62W Retail Box
*Usually available in 2-5 days YES* $61.02

than running a lightly more perfoming CPU with not top performing memory like:
ADO4000DDBOX AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Dual Core Processor Socket AM2 Brisbane 2.1GHZ 2X512KB 65NM 65W Retail Box
$5.99 EXPRESS SHIPPING! In Stock $83.30

My order is not processed yet so it's still time to save 20$ and get a better PC
[size=75]Biostar TF7050-M2 | AMD 4000+ 2100 MHz with FSB @ 228 MHz = 2394 MHz| OCZ Platinum 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-15 | Antec SOLO | Corsair VX450 | Ninja b | 1X Scythe Minebea 120 mm @ 750 rpm | 1X Nexus 92mm @ 750 rpm[/size]
[url=http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45332]My TF7050-M2 Review[/url]

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Post by QuietOC » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:58 am

Well, I now have both a 45W A64 LE-1620 2.4 and a X2 4000+ so I should be able to tell you soon. You can of course run the odd and half multiplier processors a little bit faster to bring the memory back to stock speed.

Basic ideas:

1. Clockspeed is still king
2. More cache is good (less for AMD than Intel)
3. Dual-core is bad for performance/Watt for most things

Increasing cache seems to have the least negatives regarding power increase, so I'd point you to the Athlon 64 LE-1620.

My LE-1620 is phenominal. So far I just tested it with a dinky aluminum heatsink, and the thing run like 3.2GHz at ~1.4V! I now have a NinjaB on it, but haven't had any time to test further, and the X2 4000+ was just dropped off at the door.

Memory speed is more important as cache size decreases, but generally single-channel PC3200 is fast enough. Dual-channel DDR2-800 is overkill--which make me think I should consider a single-channel DDR2 motherboard for my E2140. I would definitely go that way if 2GB DIMMs were cheaper than 2 - 1GB DIMMs. :)

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Post by autoboy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:45 pm

In terms of overall PC performance, dual core is king. Only people with specialized needs should ever buy a single core now.

Cache and memory speed are so insignificant that it is almost not worth mentioning. Only when you get down to 128K cache and DDR2 533 speeds does it begin to make a significant difference, but it is still something that a bump in frequency of 100-200 mhz can overcome.

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Post by djkest » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:57 pm

For the CPU I recommend getting a 2.4GHz brisbane core. With 2.4GHz the memory will be running at 800mhz, it's a real good balance of performance and value imo. I believe a 2.4 is something like a 4800+.

Coincidentally, 2.4GHz is kind of a benchmark for good 1080p playback, at least for the 690G. I have a 690G, and I like it.

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Post by truckman » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:17 pm

RedAE102 wrote:Yes, I'd recommend this board, with reservations which I'll mention below. I haven't had much experience with retail boards, but this Biostar board has served me well thus far.

Reservations: I have not found a working driver for the audio part of the HDMI for the 7050 chipset, so during the time that my system runs MediaPortal (sort of like MythTV for Windows) in my family room, it only runs a basic stereo audio connection via 3.5mm miniplug-to-RCA cable. On that front, it also lacks an S/PDIF optical output, which would allow me to overlook the lack of HDMI audio functionality. The 1.95V minimum memory voltage is also a concern for some, but it falls within the 1.80-2.00V acceptable range for my Kingston ValueRAM.

You also mentioned this board needing an aftermarket heatsink. I disagree. With minimal airflow, the heatsink does get hot, but not burning hot. I've had my hand on it for 15+ seconds without any discomfort, let alone burns.
I've got the Abit AN-M2HD in my MythTV box. I don't know if the HDMI audio works, but this board does have and optical S/PDIF output that I'm using to drive my AV receiver (which lacks any HDMI connections) and I'm just using HDMI to get video to my TV. DVI out would have worked for me as well, but I went with the AN-M2HD instead of the AN-M2 to get the onboard firewire port.

The northbridge heatsink on the Abit board is even smaller than the one on the Biostar board, which worries me, but it hasn't caused any obvious problems so far.

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