DG45FC looks promising for HTPC

[Ashex]

Wow...the specs say it has 5 sata ports plus one esata.

I like. Especially because it seems Intel likes to put only four sata ports on their micro-atx boards.

Update: Whoops---looks like Dell's site was misleading...it's four sata ports, plus one external. It's so hard to find a good small board to do RAID 10 with these days. lol.

Yeah, it has 4 Sata ports. I got the board on Thursday. Unfortuntely my Proc doesn't come until Tuesday , so all I'm good for right now are pictures.

Also, for the ExtremeTech review, take that with a grain of salt. From what I've read, Intel is sticking with the spec while other competitors are working out of the spec for blu-ray, so only a few applications will actually take advantage of the hardware decoder. ExtremeTech didn't have a properly configured system, after Intel got in touch with them, they got playback working right.

[frank2003]

I'm taking a calculated risk wtih this mini-ITX board. I don't expect it to beat the 780G, but I don't expect it to have any issue with HDTV recordings, either. Blu-Ray capability is a nice-to-have feature but not a top priority on my list at the moment.

My other mini-ITX altenratives are the J&W 780G, the Jetway 780G and the Jetway Nvdia 8200. The J&W is not widely available in the US so it's not an option; The Jetway 8200 has a chipset fan and some reliability issues. If the Jetway 780G is going to be priced in line with the J&W board, then for that price ($180-$190) I can get the DG45FC and a Celeron 440 (total less than $185).

This series of mini-ITX boards from Intel starting with the D201GLY is a major game changer in the mini-ITX segment. To put things in perspective, I paid over $240 for a VIA 1.2GHz C7 board.

[soa]

Also, for the ExtremeTech review, take that with a grain of salt. From what I've read, Intel is sticking with the spec while other competitors are working out of the spec for blu-ray, so only a few applications will actually take advantage of the hardware decoder. ExtremeTech didn't have a properly configured system, after Intel got in touch with them, they got playback working right.

HQV is a benchmark, there is nothing to do or to configure.
The reality is that Intel graphic driver have been poor until now for all their graphic chips and it seems to be the same with the G45.

Intel achieved 30% point at HQV test.
Nvidia and ATI achieved 100% for one year:
(sorry it is in french, end 2007)
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/690-7/d ... eo-hd.html

Edit:
Addionional to this, I find thta it is not normal that the user had to activate the hardware acceleration for AVC encoding in the bios.

Most of the common users don't even touch the BIOS, therefor I think Intel should correct this.

[smilingcrow]

HQV is a benchmark, there is nothing to do or to configure.

Maybe they meant that the system wasn’t configured properly in terms of drivers or software!

[soa]

HQV is a benchmark, there is nothing to do or to configure.

Maybe they meant that the system wasn’t configured properly in terms of drivers or software!

To use PureVideo (NVidia) do you need to activate some feature in the driver or bios? NO

To use VideoShaders (AMD) do you need to activate some feature in the drivers or bios? NO

Yes the software itselfs (Player) had to support the hardware decoder, but it is already the case of HQV...
http://developer.intel.com/performance/ ... uality.htm

Drivers are still poor and that's the main problem with Intel IGP.

[smilingcrow]

To use PureVideo (NVidia) do you need to activate some feature in the driver or bios? NO
To use VideoShaders (AMD) do you need to activate some feature in the drivers or bios? NO
Yes the software itself (Player) had to support the hardware decoder, but it is already the case of HQV...
http://developer.intel.com/performance/ ... uality.htm
Drivers are still poor and that's the main problem with Intel IGP.

I’m certainly not interested in defending Intel’s extremely poor record with regard IGP performance and driver support but in this case I’ll give them a little bit of leeway as it’s a very new platform.
The extremetech article has been updated to show the following:

“Update: After performing our tests and posting this review, it has come to our attention that the board did not use the final production BIOS.â€

[frank2003]

The blame game:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2328159,00.asp
http://softwareblogs.intel.com/2008/08/ ... imperfect/
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2 ... 153,00.asp

[soa]

I have it installed with an E7200.

Well I'am disappointed.
I have a power consumption of 80W full and 60 idle, with only 2 HDD (WD Green power) installed and a Gigabit Lan controller.

[croddie]

First tests of the new G45 show that the HD hardware acceleration fonctionate well, but the quality is poor:

G45 achieves only 30% at the HQV test...

I think there is a lot of misinformation about this "quality". I myself assumed that the codecs were not decoded correctly, that some advanced features were missing, just because of the existence of the HQV test. This is not the case. In general software on any platform including G45 will decode compressed video correctly.
HQV is mainly about deinterlacing, which should be irrelevant for HD video since it involves correcting video that is altered to appear better on CRTs. Now that CRTs are obsolete so is deinterlacing so content providers have no incentive to use it. Irrelevant for Blu Ray material for example. (Standard-def deinterlacing is still important because DVDs use it.)
The other thing that HQV tests is "noise reduction". I.e. if you want smoother output than the content-provider has decided to give. I'm sure if there is demand there can be hundreds of filters that you could use, of which noise reduction is one, and you could do it all in software.

[croddie]

I have it installed with an E7200.
Well I'am disappointed.
I have a power consumption of 80W full and 60 idle, with only 2 HDD (WD Green power) installed and a Gigabit Lan controller.

Not good.
What power supply are you using?
Tell us if you find settings that help.
Or what the power is without the controller. (Why do you use a controller btw?)

[smilingcrow]

I think there is a lot of misinformation about this "quality". I myself assumed that the codecs were not decoded correctly, that some advanced features were missing, just because of the existence of the HQV test. This is not the case. In general software on any platform including G45 will decode compressed video correctly.
HQV is mainly about deinterlacing, which should be irrelevant for HD video since it involves correcting video that is altered to appear better on CRTs. Now that CRTs are obsolete so is deinterlacing so content providers have no incentive to use it. Irrelevant for Blu Ray material for example. (Standard-def deinterlacing is still important because DVDs use it.)
The other thing that HQV tests is "noise reduction". I.e. if you want smoother output than the content-provider has decided to give. I'm sure if there is demand there can be hundreds of filters that you could use, of which noise reduction is one, and you could do it all in software.

Interesting post.
With regard to Blu-ray material encoded at 1080P I can imagine that I’d be happy for the GPU just to give it to me as it was as the source material is generally good enough. I wonder how noticeable these ‘extra tweaks’ are on such sources? Are they as discernable as the differences between various brands of TV? In other words how significant are they really?

With regard de-interlacing that is still an issue for HD as 1080i is a commonly used broadcast standard.

[soa]

I have it installed with an E7200.
Well I'am disappointed.
I have a power consumption of 80W full and 60 idle, with only 2 HDD (WD Green power) installed and a Gigabit Lan controller.

Not good.
What power supply are you using?
Tell us if you find settings that help.
Or what the power is without the controller. (Why do you use a controller btw?)

Well the PSU is a passive one, that means that it has a I hight efficiency. It is the new Shuttle PC62 200Watt (220Watt peak)


I use this card for an Windows HomeServer OS (based on (Windows Server 2003 Small Business), that means that everything is disabled (Audio, Serial port, IR, Integrated LAN Gigabit).

I only added the following components:
- Core 2 Due E7200 (45nm)
- 2GB DDR800
- Intel Gigabit 1000Pro/PT
- 2*1TB Raid 1 Western Digital Green Power
- 1* 750GB Western Digital Green Power

It has 3 HDD but it's Green Power models that consume 4W (idle) and 8W (seek) far less compared to other.

Drivers are up to date.
I'm a little bit disappointed, I'can't understand how review arrived to a 38W.

The problem is that there is nothing to tweak, the Bios doesn't allow to change any voltage (chipset or CPU), frequence or multiplier.

[soa]

First tests of the new G45 show that the HD hardware acceleration fonctionate well, but the quality is poor:

G45 achieves only 30% at the HQV test...

I think there is a lot of misinformation about this "quality". I myself assumed that the codecs were not decoded correctly, that some advanced features were missing, just because of the existence of the HQV test. This is not the case. In general software on any platform including G45 will decode compressed video correctly.
HQV is mainly about deinterlacing, which should be irrelevant for HD video since it involves correcting video that is altered to appear better on CRTs. Now that CRTs are obsolete so is deinterlacing so content providers have no incentive to use it. Irrelevant for Blu Ray material for example.

Yes Ok.

But all BluRay Home theater player (Philips, Sony,...) uses special decoder chips. They all uses filter and other tweaks to improve the image quality.
Ok the PC could do the same with adapted software, but your HT player would provide, in every cases a better quality than I PC can.

[Ashex]

soa, how do you have it hooked up to video? I'm having trouble getting video on mine. Currently connected to my lcd monitor with DVI, no drives connected to it.

[frank2003]

The problem is that there is nothing to tweak, the Bios doesn't allow to change any voltage (chipset or CPU), frequence or multiplier.

Using CPUID can you check the idle frequency multiplier and vcore? Have you set the Windows power profile to use the low-power consumption setting (in Windows XP, it's the "Use Minimum Power Management" setting)?

[soa]

The problem is that there is nothing to tweak, the Bios doesn't allow to change any voltage (chipset or CPU), frequence or multiplier.

Using CPUID can you check the idle frequency multiplier and vcore? Have you set the Windows power profile to use the low-power consumption setting (in Windows XP, it's the "Use Minimum Power Management" setting)?

That's Ok. EIST is activated in the bios.

soa, how do you have it hooked up to video? I'm having trouble getting video on mine. Currently connected to my lcd monitor with DVI, no drives connected to it.

I'm connected with VGA (with an DVI-VGA converter), and I had no problem.

One question. What is your ICH and MCH temperature after 1 or 2 hour usage? (See Bios, monitoring section)

[Ashex]

I'm connected with VGA (with an DVI-VGA converter), and I had no problem.

One question. What is your ICH and MCH temperature after 1 or 2 hour usage? (See Bios, monitoring section)

Thanks, I'm going to test on another monitor (don't have an adapter though, so I'll use DVI again), if it works I'll get that info for ya.


Anyone know where I can get the HIPER HFC-10828-C2 heatsink in the US? From what I've read on AVS, it is shorter then the Intel low-profile heatsink, but cools as well and is quiter.

[soa]

I'm connected with VGA (with an DVI-VGA converter), and I had no problem.

One question. What is your ICH and MCH temperature after 1 or 2 hour usage? (See Bios, monitoring section)

Thanks, I'm going to test on another monitor (don't have an adapter though, so I'll use DVI again), if it works I'll get that info for ya.

Have you tried over the HDMI connection?

Or make a reset of the bios.

[Ashex]

I'm connected with VGA (with an DVI-VGA converter), and I had no problem.

One question. What is your ICH and MCH temperature after 1 or 2 hour usage? (See Bios, monitoring section)

Thanks, I'm going to test on another monitor (don't have an adapter though, so I'll use DVI again), if it works I'll get that info for ya.

Have you tried over the HDMI connection?

Or make a reset of the bios.

I don't have an hdmi cable yet, getting it mailed to me currently. I brought it with me to work and it's working on the dell monitors we have here. Here's the Board temps:

ICH Temp: 66C
MCH Temp: 45C

I tweaked some settings on it. I'll try it again when I get home, it's kinda strange that it isn't working on my personal monitor. I grabbed the cable I just used with it so I'll be able to check that.

[smilingcrow]

I had a Viewsonic monitor that failed to work with Intel integrated chipsets for some reason over a DVI connection; it was fine over D-SUB.

[Ashex]

I had a Viewsonic monitor that failed to work with Intel integrated chipsets for some reason over a DVI connection; it was fine over D-SUB.

it had a d-sub connector or did you use an adapter?

[smilingcrow]

it had a d-sub connector or did you use an adapter?

I tried two Gigabyte G33 boards with that monitor, one with integrated DVI and one with a DVI ADD2 card and both failed with DVI.
The D-sub connection that worked was a straight VGA to VGA connection; I don’t remember if I tried the DVI connectors with an adapter. I posted details on this site so I may have included that info.

[Ashex]

it had a d-sub connector or did you use an adapter?

I tried two Gigabyte G33 boards with that monitor, one with integrated DVI and one with a DVI ADD2 card and both failed with DVI.
The D-sub connection that worked was a straight VGA to VGA connection; I don’t remember if I tried the DVI connectors with an adapter. I posted details on this site so I may have included that info.

Gotcha. Unfortunately, this board only has a dvi and hdmi :/

If a different cable doesn't work, then hopefully when I get the hdmi cable it will work on my TV. Although I haven't a clue how installing the OS will go since it won't use the 1280x768 that the tv requires.

[soa]

ICH Temp: 66C
MCH Temp: 45C

Thanks for the values.

mmh. That's not much compared to mine.

Are these temperature that you have at start up or after several hours?
Mounted in a closed computer case???

My Southbrdige was over 100°C (but at touching it was not very hot) and the Northbridge at 75°C after the OS installation (can't remermber exactly, but it was in that range).

(EDIT: mmh, maybe the ICH was 75 and the MCH over 100)

Then I installed two cooper heatsinks, one on the SB (because I use it for Raid and I don't wan't that it fails) and another one on the NB.

Now I have:
MB: 48°C
ICH: 70°C
MCH: 62°C (Temperature sensor on heatsink = 53°C)

But I find those values still high compared to yours, even if we take in account that I don't have any fan on the CPU cooler that could generate air flow in this section. I only have 2*120mm fan at low speed.



Have anybody found a software to read temperature value in Windows?

Speedfan doesn't recognize the sensors/chip used by Intel (Winbond I think).

[Ashex]

ICH Temp: 66C
MCH Temp: 45C

Thanks for the values.

mmh. That's not much compared to mine.

Are these temperature that you have at start up or after several hours?
Mounted in a closed computer case???

My Southbrdige was over 100°C (but at touching it was not very hot) and the Northbridge at 75°C after the OS installation (can't remermber exactly, but it was in that range).

(EDIT: mmh, maybe the ICH was 75 and the MCH over 100)

Then I installed two cooper heatsinks, one on the SB (because I use it for Raid and I don't wan't that it fails) and another one on the NB.

Now I have:
MB: 48°C
ICH: 70°C
MCH: 62°C (Temperature sensor on heatsink = 53°C)

But I find those values still high compared to yours, even if we take in account that I don't have any fan on the CPU cooler that could generate air flow in this section. I only have 2*120mm fan at low speed.



Have anybody found a software to read temperature value in Windows?

Speedfan doesn't recognize the sensors/chip used by Intel (Winbond I think).

I only had it on for about 15 minutes. I'm not going to be able to do any long-term readouts until I get it working at home.
What heatsink do you have on yours? That looks like a passive VGA cooler to me

[soa]

What heatsink do you have on yours? That looks like a passive VGA cooler to me

CPU: Coolermaster Gemini II
NB: Enzotech CNBR1
SB: Enzotech CNBS1 (A little bit cutted on its border with a dremel because it was too big )

[Ashex]

How much cooler is the nortbridge with the new heatsink? I may do that if it helps keep the ambient temp down.

I plugged in the cable I got and didn't get any video. Dug out my d-sub cable, and a dvi adapter, and it works! So I'm going to have to get another d-sub cable tomorrow, since this one was hooked up to my other pc for watching on my tv.

[soa]

How much cooler is the nortbridge with the new heatsink? I may do that if it helps keep the ambient temp down.

Well that's the problem, I can't remember anymore exactly the temperature that I had with the Intel cooler . That's why I asked you.

Now I have:
Temperature depends on the rear case Fan (1500-700 rounds per minute).
MCH: 55°-67°C
ICH: 65°-70°C. The ICH cooler is not realy hot when I touch it, I would say 35-40°C.

I'don't believe that it is necessary, in normal usage, to change the MCH heatsink.
I have done it because I plan to built my own mini case (Wood + plexi, as mine previous project, an HTPC), and the temperature could be a critical point.

[soa]

It seems that the temperature sensors are wrong calibrated on my motherboard.

Even if I put a fan directly on the NB rad, the temperature indicated in the bios stay blocked at 45°C (NB) and 65°C (SB). But my external thermal sensor (and my fingers) indicates that the heatsink are mutch cooler.

But it would be interesting to know if in 3D game or HD video decoding the NB became too hot or not.

[Ashex]

I'll have more accurate temps in a minute, it's been running for a couple hours. Did you ever have mystery artifacts show up causing the board to shut itself off? I keep getting that while trying to install XP.


Edit: Here they are:

MB Temp: 35-36C
ICH: 73C
MCH: 45C

ICH and MB fluctuate, but the MCH is staying the same.