AMD 785G/SB710

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:54 pm

Update 5 August:

Looks like no 8 channel LPCM over HDMI. Not sure what the point is then.

*****

Looks like some early peeks at the new AMD 785G/SB710 pairing are out. AM3/DDR3 part, 2 biggest improvements seem to be full 7.1 channel LPCM audio over HDMI, and ACC for overclocking or core unlocking. Graphics are now DX10.1 and renamed HD4200. With the audio improvement alone it could head to head with the Geforce boards now.

Couple links for your clicking pleasure:

Gigabyte GA-MA785GPM-UDH2 at Anandtech
Gigabyte GA-MA785GPM-UDH2 at LegitReviews
ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO at LegitReviews
ASRock M3A785GXH/128M at DarkVision Hardware
ECS A785GM-M at AlienBabel tech

Looks like the Gigabyte NB heatsink is in the way of the PCIe x1 slot, while the Asus and ECS boards seem to have theirs trimmed down and out of the way enough. The Asrock is hard to tell from the overhead view (though it is a full ATX board).

Haven't seen anything else on here and a search didn't reveal anything.

SleepyBum · Post by **SleepyBum** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:29 pm

OHohHo... Thanks for the links. Been waiting for info on these for a HTPC build.

Looks like I'll be using the Gigabyte GA-MA785GPM-UD2H since it looks like that's the only one to use DDR2 memory, all the others use DDR3. I have lots of DDR2 sticks from various deals, and I think DDR3 prices these days are still way above DDR2. Hopefully, these 785G boards will come in at the same price point as the old 780G boards.

Updated UVD2 and 128MB DDR3 1066MHz SidePort memory makes this perfect for a HTPC w/ light gaming. Not too worried about that North bridge heatsink, as I probably won't be using any add-on cards at all. Hope the new Scythe Shuriken will fit and don't block the DIMM slots.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:45 am

Can't wait to see power consumption numbers and pricing.

dvdmonster · Post by **dvdmonster** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:07 pm

I don't get it .. is 785 the same as the soon to be released RS880?

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:12 pm

From what I can tell, the RS880 is the 785. Most of the new features of RS880 (AM3 and DDR3 support) were added to the 790X/FX, and since the only other difference is the new GPU, it's essentially a 780G with a better southbridge options (giving the 7.1 LPCM).

porkchop · Post by **porkchop** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:33 pm

don't forget the hd4200 graphics, it's not as revolutionary as the hd3200, but amd reckons its 15% faster than the competition- the nvidia 9400 i expect.

on a side note- motherboards with 780g/sb710 are available, so if you want to stick with ddr2 this will be the cheaper option.

SleepyBum · Post by **SleepyBum** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:52 pm

Anandtech has an article with some benchmarks with the 785G, but it looks like they said the drivers weren't working very well, so the numbers are pretty much identical to the 780G for now.

Gigabyte's GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H - AMD's 785G is Here, Sort of...

Newegg had 2 Gigabyte 785G motherboards listed and available, but it looks like they're been deactivated now. Anandtech also had an article saying they were available, and they ordered one, but looks like they pulled that article because I can't find it. Looks like they jumped the gun as they said they were to be announced at the end of August.

Gigabyte 785G motherboards @ Newegg

GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

From what I can remember, the ATX one was $109.99, while the Micro ATX one was listed for $89.99

They were also listed on Gigabyte TW site, but looks like they've been deactivated as well. Google cache still has some info listed:

Google cache GA-MA785GM-US2H

hans007 · Post by **hans007** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:30 pm

SleepyBum wrote:Also the 785G is using a 45nm manufacturing process vs 55nm for the 780G so hopefully, it'll be somewhat cooler and more power efficient.

Anandtech has an article with some benchmarks with the 785G, but it looks like they said the drivers weren't working very well, so the numbers are pretty much identical to the 780G for now.

Gigabyte's GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H - AMD's 785G is Here, Sort of...

Newegg had 2 Gigabyte 785G motherboards listed and available, but it looks like they're been deactivated now. Anandtech also had an article saying they were available, and they ordered one, but looks like they pulled that article because I can't find it. Looks like they jumped the gun as they said they were to be announced at the end of August.

Gigabyte 785G motherboards @ Newegg

GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

From what I can remember, the ATX one was $109.99, while the Micro ATX one was listed for $89.99

They were also listed on Gigabyte TW site, but looks like they've been deactivated as well. Google cache still has some info listed:

Google cache GA-MA785GM-US2H

785g is not 45nm. its still 55nm . Its made by tsmc, and its either going to be 65, 55, or 40nm, they dont do 45nm.

I think the first 40nm chipset amd makes would be the 880g or whatever , and probably have more than 40 shaders.

SleepyBum · Post by **SleepyBum** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:57 am

hans007 wrote:785g is not 45nm. its still 55nm . Its made by tsmc, and its either going to be 65, 55, or 40nm, they dont do 45nm.

I think the first 40nm chipset amd makes would be the 880g or whatever , and probably have more than 40 shaders.

You're right... I kind of remember seeing this slide, and the *New* label next to Energy Efficiency, and thought they had shrunken the process from the 780G. But both chipsets are made using 55nm as you said. That also makes sense from the Anandtech benchmarks, as there's no major change in power consumption.

dvdmonster · Post by **dvdmonster** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:23 am

I have to be honest and say I am a bit disappointed by this.
The 780g is what, 1Â½ years old now, and they dont even shrink the die.
I would rather have a HD3200 on 40/45nm then a HD4200 on 55nm.

hans007 · Post by **hans007** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:07 am

dvdmonster wrote:I have to be honest and say I am a bit disappointed by this.
The 780g is what, 1Â½ years old now, and they dont even shrink the die.
I would rather have a HD3200 on 40/45nm then a HD4200 on 55nm.

the 780g came out in march or so of 2008. so its not quite a year and a half old.

that and at the time 55nm was a state of the art process for tsmc. they have 40nm now and have not even ramped it up for everything yet , and its used on the radeon 4770 and the new nvidia cards (i think the ones in production are the low end ones).

I doubt tsmc is going to get rid of all that 55nm tooling very quickly (and nvidia just recently went to 55nm for their mainstream and enthusiast cards)... . i dont think 1.5 years is really a "long time" for the move from 55nm to 40nm.

Intel / AMD took longer than that to go from 65nm to 45nm.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:39 am

Another (p)review from a Chinese site: 785G chipset preview

780G seems like it's been around forever, but it's really not that old. It was a good platform (if you can get it to work) and idea, perhaps the "best" integrated chipset made until that point. Too bad AMD/ATI are dodgy at drivers and support. Wouldn't be surprised if 785G and future chipsets share the same problems. When you use an AMD chipset, wait long and patiently for a stable install-and-go experience.

As a long time AMD user, it is good to see Advanced Micro Devices take the fight up to the overfed greedy giant down the road.

Namheul · Post by **Namheul** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:50 pm

Shamgar wrote:Another (p)review from a Chinese site: 785G chipset preview

780G seems like it's been around forever, but it's really not that old. It was a good platform (if you can get it to work) and idea, perhaps the "best" integrated chipset made until that point. Too bad AMD/ATI are dodgy at drivers and support. Wouldn't be surprised if 785G and future chipsets share the same problems. When you use an AMD chipset, wait long and patiently for a stable install-and-go experience.

As a long time AMD user, it is good to see Advanced Micro Devices take the fight up to the overfed greedy giant down the road.

I have had my 780G motherboard for a year now.
It was a simple "install-and-go" experience.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 pm

Namheul wrote:I have had my 780G motherboard for a year now.
It was a simple "install-and-go" experience.

As usual, YMMV. Thanks for the feedback.

BillyBuerger · Post by **BillyBuerger** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:17 am

I just noticed the GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H was available at newegg on Friday evening. I've been waiting to upgrade soon and couldn't resist when I saw this. Should have it by Thursday along with the 2.9GHz Regor. I haven't seen any tech sites posting about these being available yet or any reviews or anything.

loimlo · Post by **loimlo** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:58 am

Based on my local sources, the 785G reviews are just around the corner, and tech website will publish the reviews when AMD lifts the ban.

line · Post by **line** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:59 pm

Fudo says it'll be out today. I look forward to seeing how it compares with G41 + E6300/E6500. I hope AMD supplied testers with upcoming 45W Athlon II parts.

dvdmonster · Post by **dvdmonster** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:53 am

bit-tech.net has a review of the GA-MA785GMT-UD2H up now.

The most positive thing I can say about this "new" chipset, is that AMD did change the name from 880G to 785G, all tough 780.1G would have been even more fitting.
Seriously, if this is what AMD can come up with in 18 months of development, they are screwed.

I just ordered 5 pcs. GA-MA785GMT-UD2H boards for HTPC for friends and family (told them to wait for 785G, shame on me) that I will hopefully get tomorrow, and as soon as I get the time, I will post some numbers on power usage.

Cheers.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:09 am

Probably 785 is not result of 18 mon ths of development. Its just some tweaked "bread crumb" they dish out for consumer's before real release... but its not easy to develop chipset. Look nVidia's G80. It changed Graphics industry and architechture, took over 5 years developing and after that nVidia has just re-used that architechture for years.

Planning, research and development takes time but you need to get results too while doing stuff. I bet 785G is just this "must dish out" products while they're still developing things.

780G was quite pioneer chipset with its predecessor 690G. Prior them gaming with IGP was joke. After those gaming in IGP became bit more serious.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:37 am

I don't think the 785 is the big intro here. It's seems to me that this is pretty much a relaunch of the 780G but correcting the biggest drawback of the old chipsets: lack of 7.1 LPCM via HDMI.

That addition, in and of itself, will reopen the options for HTPC users and nullify the advantage that the nVidia chipsets offered.

In another year we'll likely get better video chipset that is geared solely to the AM3, Phenom-type processors.

X'o'Lore · Post by **X'o'Lore** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:40 am

"This just in: No it's not."

Anandtech has posted a retraction. No multi-channel LPCM for the 785 from the looks.

Scoop · Post by **Scoop** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:41 am

I thought it was pretty funny when in the Anandtech review they threw in an HD 4770 for some gaming and G41 with an E6300 was kicking the asses of the best AMD IGP chipsets.

BillyBuerger · Post by **BillyBuerger** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 pm

Scoop wrote:I thought it was pretty funny when in the Anandtech review they threw in an HD 4770 for some gaming and G41 with an E6300 was kicking the asses of the best AMD IGP chipsets.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Using the IGP with both the Intel G41 and AMD 785, AMD "kicked" Intels butt. With the 4770 GPU in both, Intel beat AMD by mostly small amounts. But that's too be expected as Intel's Core CPUs are known to perform better than AMD's CPUs in many cases. IGP has nothing to do with this really.

That's too bad about the LPCM issue. Although for me it doesn't matter. I don't see the 785G as trying to be some big new thing. What it does do along with the Athlon IIs is bring AM3 to the budget/mainstream. Which is what I was looking for.

BillyBuerger · Post by **BillyBuerger** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:07 am

I got my parts yesterday. Wu-hoooo! I've done some testing and here's what I've got so far. First, my test bench setup:

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H
CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 245 Regor (2.9GHz)
Memory: PQI 2GB DDR3 1333
PSU: Seasonic SS-350ET (80plus Bronze)
Heatsink: Scythe Mini Ninja
Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint 80GB (Nidec)
DVD: Lite-ON I think
Fan: Artic Cooling 92mm PWM
OS: Windows 7 RC x64

Code: Select all

CPU Voltage      CPU NB    Power (idle/CPU load/GPU load)
---------------  --------  ------------------------------
1.0V - 1.35V     1.175V     49 - ?  - ?
0.9V - 1.25V     1.175V     45 - 75 - 80
0.8V - 1.15V     1.175V     45 - 69 - 75
0.775V - 1.125V  1.175V     44 - 67 - 73
0.75V - 1.10V    1.175V     Posted but crashed on windows startup

0.8V - 1.15V     1.15V      45 - 68 - 74
0.8V - 1.15V     1.125V     44 - 68 - 74
0.8V - 1.15V     1.10V      44 - ?  - ?

Not bad but I wish I could get it a little lower at idle. I forget to test load power at stock so I'll want to check that. I left off playing with the CPU northbridge voltage but so far it's had minimal effect. The mini ninja has absolutely no problem cooling this CPU. Initially, the only fan was the one on the PSU which was nearby and the heat sink barely gets warm. I added the fan more to blow on the chipset and VRMs. Both of which get pretty warm. As far as the motherboard goes, here's some pros/cons I see so far.

PROS:

Has BIOS undervolting options so no software is needed and it's not OS dependent. Options are relative so setting it to -0.2 brings it from 1.0V-1.35 to 0.8V-1.15V.

I'm glad to see Gigabyte go the route of getting rid of one of the PS2 connectors and add another 2 USB on the back.

CONS:

The chipset gets pretty warm but I think it provides enough cooling. The VRMs also get pretty warm even though this CPU is pretty low powered. My actual setup will include some ducting of the rear fan to provide some air flow along the motherboard which should be more than enough for both of these.

The 1.5V DDR3 is reported as running at 1.6V. I saw similar things on my AM2 Gigabyte board where the 1.8V DDR2 was reported as running at 1.9V. Not sure if Gigabyte likes to overvolt ram by default or if it's just a reporting issue.

Scoop · Post by **Scoop** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:35 am

BillyBuerger wrote:
Scoop wrote:I thought it was pretty funny when in the Anandtech review they threw in an HD 4770 for some gaming and G41 with an E6300 was kicking the asses of the best AMD IGP chipsets.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Using the IGP with both the Intel G41 and AMD 785, AMD "kicked" Intels butt. With the 4770 GPU in both, Intel beat AMD by mostly small amounts. But that's too be expected as Intel's Core CPUs are known to perform better than AMD's CPUs in many cases. IGP has nothing to do with this really.

That's too bad about the LPCM issue. Although for me it doesn't matter. I don't see the 785G as trying to be some big new thing. What it does do along with the Athlon IIs is bring AM3 to the budget/mainstream. Which is what I was looking for.

I only mentioned the IGP because they didn't test the only non-IGP chipsets from AMD, 790X and 790FX.

I personally have an issue with AMD's gozillions of chipset variations. Though I've come to a conclusion that SB710 is a must if you're overclocking. Other than that it seems to make little difference as they all pretty much perform the same. And I don't care about the IGP but AMD keeps on feeding it to consumers. Why they don't have a mainstream non-IGP chipset is beyond me.

dvdmonster · Post by **dvdmonster** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:16 am

BillyBuerger, thanks a lot for the power usage numbers, but are those for the complete system?

BillyBuerger · Post by **BillyBuerger** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:12 pm

Yes, the entire system as listed. Well, plus a USB keyboard and mouse. I also want to do some tests with my Seasonic SS-300SFD and PicoPSU to see how the bronze rated PSU does. I'll have to plug it into my old system which idles in the low 20W range using the IGP.

dvdmonster · Post by **dvdmonster** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:36 pm

Ok, I will be interested in the PicoPSU results. Would you recon the Samsung Spinpoint uses about 10W? I'm only using 2.5" drives at this point.

Looking forward to more results on how low this baby can go !

BillyBuerger · Post by **BillyBuerger** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:26 pm

A couple new things came up in my testing today. First, it seems that the CPU NB voltage doesn't affect the power consumption much. I dropped it down by 0.2V and saw at most a 1W decrease. Second, the memory I bought was rated for 1333MHz but was set in the BIOS to run at 1066MHz. I bumped it and it maybe added another 1W so it pretty much canceled out the NB voltage drop. Last and most important, as I was poking through the BIOS, I found an option for AMD C1E which was disabled. Turned that on and idle power dropped to 41W. Now we're talking.

I unfortunately don't have any spare 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapters right now. So I can't test this setup with a laptop drive. But I would guess that would drop the power by about 5W.

As for the PicoPSU, one thing that doesn't come up often when discussing it is that it's dependent on the power brink. The unfortunate thing for me is that the 200W power brick from my Shuttle SD11G5 doesn't appear to be very efficient. The results with my PicoPSU thus haven't really been any better than my Seasonic SS-300SFD. But I still plan on trying it out.

bean1975 · Post by **bean1975** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:28 pm

Note tha the T in the model number (GA-MA785GMT-UD2H) indicates DDR3. There are no less than six 785G Gigabyte boards with really distinctive names http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=19599