MB/CPU/mem upgrade? Lower watts? XP Pro SP2 or Win 7?

[morkys]

I've been putting off upgrading for many years, and it's finally time. My PC needs revitalization. The good thing is, I can spend not a whole lot and get a very significant performance upgrade. Current system is AMD64 3000+. I want to spend the least amount of money possible on motherboard, cpu and memory. A few questions:

1) Intel C2D or C2 Quad? Can I get a CPU that uses fewer watts than my 89 w AMD64 3000+ even if I go with C2 Quad (researching TDP now).

Looking to spend <$200 on CPU...but if C2 Quad is worth it....
For C2D = E8400 3.00G 6M 1333 I64 S775 (BX80570E8400) for $174 CDN + tax.
For C2 Quad = Q9550 2.83G 12M 1333 I64 S775 (BX80569Q9550) for $259 CDN + tax

Those are the best value at the moment.

2) Or is there an AMD platform I could go with?

3) all-in-one motherboard with network, audio and video and HDMI output? Which 775 platform for motherboard? Conroe? Server or Workstation?

4) Memory?

5) Keep XP Pro SP2 or go with Windows 7?

Looking to reduce power use but increase computing power capabilities. Mostly normal PC use but would like to be able to do video and photo editing etc.

I've planned to upgrade many many times before, but this time my PC is getting a little old. I think if I dust off the motherboard/cpu/memory and ancient video card and sell it to somebody for next to nothing, I can move to a new platform. I'll keep the case, a recently purchased WD 1 TB SATA 300 HDD, DVDRW, 3.5" floppy card reader, other peripherals, case and Enermax power supply (if compatible with new MB!).

I have a PCI hauppauge video capture card I use, so it would be nice to be able to keep that ala PCI slots, but...I could always sell it and get a USB2 capture device some time.

I need to upgrade soon.

thanks in advance

[boost]

Socket 775 is dead.
Network and audio is integrated on all consumer mainboards, display outputs sometimes.
CPUs and mainboards with a good price/performance ratio are Intel socket 1156 and Amd sockets AM2+ and AM3 parts.
Dual core CPUs are easier and quieter to cool than triple or quad core CPUs.
Do you want the most power and a little less quiet or the most quiet system possible?
Here are links to some SPCR reviews of CPUs in your price range to start you off:
Intel dual core:http://www.silentpcreview.com/intel-clarkdale
Intel quad core:http://www.silentpcreview.com/intel_LGA1156_launch
Amd quad core:http://www.silentpcreview.com/amd-sept09

[Big Pimp Daddy]

If you're working at all on a budget I would recommend a dual over quad, unless you have specific software you will use lot which can make use of the extra cores.

My personal recommendation for what I percieve your usage pattern to be would be a dual core AMD like the Athlon 64 X2 5600+, a 740G or 760G motherboard, 4 gig of RAM (ideally 2x 2gb sticks), and spend the money you saved over an Intel system on a small decent SSD.

Windows 7 is nice and shiny and all, but not mind-blowing, if you're on a budget I would stick with XP, you can always upgrade in the future if you so desire.

EDIT:My goodness boost, socket 775 is dead?! Someone should inform the family. May I just bring to your attention some benchmarks where a stock clocked E8600 destroys the i5 and i3;
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... =3704&p=12
and perhaps these where it is within a few fps of the top-of-the-range silly-money i7s;
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... i=3641&p=7

For a dead platform that is pretty impressive...

[morkys]

Thanks for the feedback. I like the idea of going for less expensive and perhaps trying amd again.

Would be nice to get a much faster cpu that uses less watts than the one I have now...and of course, a motherboard that is not power hungry either. I'll check out all of your suggestions and start zeroing in on something. I think Quad core may not be necessary, although, what about music stuff, like recording etc?

I need a serious lesson in cpu's. I'm soooo far behind. I also don't understand the cpu sockets and platforms. Are there actually AM2, AM2+ and AM3 motherboards that are all totally separate platforms incompatible with one anothers CPU's?

[yuu]

Cpu E6300 ~25W (2 cores loaded)
Vc 220GT with hdmi, silent fan ~10-20W
Mbd GA-945GCM-S2C or similar ~?W with bios update to support 6300.

I have the
GA-EP45-DS3 (~25-30W)
E8400 (3.6Ghz @ 1.2V is ~25W in games and rendering, cannot beat that AMd, not yet)
2x2 DDR2 800 1.8V A-data (~5-10W)

All this +20% performance compared to e6300 and +100% price, and if you get quad another 20% and another 100% price.

775 is not dead but not justified now that i3-530 exists, and next year new 1155 socket with 32nm mainstream quad will appear and replace both 1156 and 775. Amd is not energy efficient (when loaded 100%), except when idle.

[boost]

High clocked S775 CPUs are still good for gaming, but not better than a PhenomII at the same clock speed, the Phenom II is up to 50% cheaper. With the arrival of dual core i3/i5 CPUs Intel will phase out most of the S775 CPUs. I have a Socket 775 system that I'm going to use for a while longer, but I would not buy a new one now.

AMD plattforms have the advantage of integrated video, which saves the money for a dedicated video card and some power. That is perfect for an everyday office system, but if you need more power you can get an quad core CPU and keep the rest of the system the same.
On a budget an Athlon II CPU, a board with the 760 or 785 chipset and 4 GB of Ram are a great combination.

AMD CPU socket compatibility is quite simple:
AM3 CPUs work in AM3 mainboards and can work in AM2+ and AM2 mainboards.
AM2+ CPUs work in AM2+ and can work in AM2 mainboards.
AM2 CPUs work in AM2 mainboards.
Bios support is needed for newer CPUs to work in a mainboard with an older socket.
If you buy a new system you can get one of the latest chipsets, which are available in newer sockets. They have more ports and faster video cards.

You should check what systems are supported by your PCI video capture card.
Are there drivers for Win 7?
Are there 64 Bit drivers?

[morkys]

Well, I shouldn't be too concerned with the PCI video capture card as it's kinda old and I could always get a USB2 version from Happauge. If it works, it works, otherwise, I can replace it later.

I like the idea of getting a fairly modern AMD platform and inexpensive CPU. So which AMD Athlon II cpu do you think would be comparable to a C2D E8400? Anything comparable in price? I could start out with something like an AMD Phenom II X2 550 Callisto and upgrade later, but it uses more power than I'd like. Otherwise, I could get an AM3 board with onboard graphics, sound and network and a lower powered dual core CPU and upgrade the cpu later if I want.

Also wonder if I should upgrade my XP Pro to 64-bit XP?

[ilovejedd]

EDIT:My goodness boost, socket 775 is dead?! Someone should inform the family. May I just bring to your attention some benchmarks where a stock clocked E8600 destroys the i5 and i3;
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... =3704&p=12

And how much does the E8600 cost, exactly? Certainly more than a Core i3-530.

Better value for money, though, yes, I think AMD is better.

[ilovejedd]

Also wonder if I should upgrade my XP Pro to 64-bit XP?

Definitely not. You're better off upgrading to Vista/7 x64 than XP x64.

[Ksanderash]

boost

Socket 775 is dead

It is not. Just because the cheap as dirt Wolfdale

Why pay much? To pay what for? A 2-4 fps diff?

ilovejedd

And how much does the E8600 cost, exactly? Certainly more than a Core i3-530.

And what is i3-530? Clarkdale is a Lynnfield's scrub, with a weak cut-down RAM-controller, showing higher latency than my rubbish three-years-old G31! Read the articles, and don't buy soap bubbles for your hard earning bucks

As for Windows, yeah, the 7 is the only choice for a shining-new system.

[ilovejedd]

And what is i3-530? Clarkdale is a Lynnfield's scrub, with a weak cut-down RAM-controller, showing higher latency than my rubbish three-years-old G31! Read the articles, and don't buy soap bubbles for your hard earning bucks

Sorry, but I'm getting one. Just waiting for a mini-itx H55 mobo and I'll have a decent performing HTPC w/low power consumption and HD audio bitstreaming to play with.

[morkys]

How would the AMD Athlon II X2 235e compare to my AMD64 3000+ or intel CPU's like C2Duo? Seems very inexpensive. If there was a good all-in-one motherboard and some reasonably priced ram I'd be good to go.

How about:

CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 235e $76
MB: ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO $95 (or the M4A785TD-V =$106)
RAM: OCZ DDR3 4GB (2x2048MB) D/C Kit PN - OCZ3G10664GK PC3-8500 Gold Edition (OCZ3G10664GK) $85

+ CPU fan...

Sell my CPU/FAN/MB/RAM/AGP Gforce2GTS and swap platforms.

[ilovejedd]

How would the AMD Athlon II X2 235e compare to my AMD64 3000+ or intel CPU's like C2Duo? Seems very inexpensive. If there was a good all-in-one motherboard and some reasonably priced ram I'd be good to go.

How about:

CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 235e $76
MB: ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO $95 (or the M4A785TD-V =$106)
RAM: OCZ DDR3 4GB (2x2048MB) D/C Kit PN - OCZ3G10664GK PC3-8500 Gold Edition (OCZ3G10664GK) $85

+ CPU fan...

Sell my CPU/FAN/MB/RAM/AGP Gforce2GTS and swap platforms.

The 235e is a bit expensive and I don't know how much lower power it actually consumes compared to the regular Regors.

From what I recall, dollar for dollar AMD beats Intel (e.g. $62 Athlon II X2 245 2.9GHz > $63 Intel Celeron E3300 2.5GHz). The above build would be way faster than your current PC. I'm just not sure if the 235e is worth the price premium considering you can get the Athlon II X2 240 for $59.

[morkys]

I live in Canada, so prices are in CDN$ relative to what else I can get here. Just an example of one place.

$65 AMD Athlon II Dual Core X2 240 2.8GHZ AM3 65W (ADX240OCGQBOX)
$75 AMD Athlon II Dual Core X2 245 2.9GHz AM3 65W (ADX245OCGQBOX)
$76 AMD Athlon II X2 235e / 2.7 GHz Energy Efficient - Socket AM3 - L2 2 MB ( 2 x 1 MB ) 45w
$79 AMD Athlon II X2 250 / 3 GHz - Socket AM3 - L2 2 MB ( 2 x 1 MB ) - Box (ADX250OCGQBOX) 65w
$95 AMD Phenom II X2 545 / 3 GHz - Socket AM3 - L3 6 MB - Box (HDX545WFGIBOX) 80w
$109 AMD Black Edition Phenom II X2 550 / 3.1 GHz - Socket AM3 - L3 6 MB - Box (HDZ550WFGIBOX) 80w

The X2 250 looks like a good value for $14 more than the 240. I wish I knew how these compared to the C2D. Obviously not as fast as the ones I was thinking of initially, but, they are also $100 cheaper.

So there is no way of telling if the 235e will use that much less power than, for instance, the X2 250?

I wonder if the motherboard I am chosing is good for performance, stability and low power consumption. I've seen at least one person using it for an HTPC build, so that's a good sign. Could the ATI 4200HD play-back Blu-Ray?

[ilovejedd]

The X2 250 looks like a good value for $14 more than the 240. I wish I knew how these compared to the C2D. Obviously not as fast as the ones I was thinking of initially, but, they are also $100 cheaper.

You can find some comparisons of the Athlon II X2 250 with the Core 2 Duo E8400 here:
Neoseeker - AMD Athlon II X2 250 CPU Review
Tom's Hardware - Benchmark 3DMark Vantage 1.0.2 CPU

The E8400 beats the X2 250 in most tests but given the price and the availability of good IGP options on the AMD camp, getting the X2 250 is kinda a no-brainer.

[morkys]

The X2 250 looks like a good value for $14 more than the 240. I wish I knew how these compared to the C2D. Obviously not as fast as the ones I was thinking of initially, but, they are also $100 cheaper.

You can find some comparisons of the Athlon II X2 250 with the Core 2 Duo E8400 here:
Neoseeker - AMD Athlon II X2 250 CPU Review
Tom's Hardware - Benchmark 3DMark Vantage 1.0.2 CPU

The E8400 beats the X2 250 in most tests but given the price and the availability of good IGP options on the AMD camp, getting the X2 250 is kinda a no-brainer.

Thanks. I'll check those out. And wouldn't you agree that it makes sense to step into a platform this way, knowing that later, I will most certainly be able to replace the X2 253e or X2 250 with a faster AMD cpu that is less expensive than an E8400?

I was hoping to get somethin even lower power than 65 watts though. The 235e is 45 watts, but again, how much lower is it in the real world. EDIT - That is one area the E8400 doesn't do as well in. Even compared to the X2 250 the E8400 uses more power.

I wonder how the X2 250 and X2 235e compare in actual power usage?

Anybody know?

P.S. - I have a floppy drive / card reader in my PC. I don't see a floppy connector on the ASUS M4A785TD-V motherboard. Is there a floppy / card-reader out there that is USB only?

Looks like the Asus board is not very efficient after all, according to SPCR. I can't find the MSI board they compared the Asus to for sale at my local stores.

[ilovejedd]

Thanks. I'll check those out. And wouldn't you agree that it makes sense to step into a platform this way, knowing that later, I will most certainly be able to replace the X2 253e or X2 250 with a faster AMD cpu that is less expensive than an E8400?

Yep. I've stopped building LGA775 based builds for this reason.

I was hoping to get somethin even lower power than 65 watts though. The 235e is 45 watts, but again, how much lower is it in the real world. EDIT - That is one area the E8400 doesn't do as well in. Even compared to the X2 250 the E8400 uses more power.

True, but the Intel competition (based on price) for the X2 250 back when it was first released was either the Pentium E5400 (2.7GHz, 800MHz FSB, 2MB cache) or Pentium E6300 (2.8GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 2MB cache) both of which are considerably less power hungry than the E8400. Iirc, power consumption of those chips are pretty similar. I think the E5400 and E6300 might actually have slightly lower power consumption than the X2 250. However, I believe the X2 250 beats both Intel chips on performance.

I wonder how the X2 250 and X2 235e compare in actual power usage?

Anybody know?

Probably not by much. Certainly not in the order of 20W. Pretty sure actual power consumption of the X2 250 wouldn't reach 45W even at load during normal operation.