Seems like the 1156 Socket is being superseded by a new socket called the 1155 and a new set of support chips. But it looks like USB 2 will not be going anywhere quickly.
"The P67 and H67 will take over the "Premium and Mainstream" market segment currently dominated by the P55 and H57 chipsets."
"This is necessary given that the future Sandy Bridge processors will be rolled-out on LGA1155 sockets, as opposed to the existing LGA1156 socket used for the Lynnfield and Clarkdale Core i3 and i5"
"2 SATA 6Gb/s ports will be present on both these chipsets, out of the total 6 SATA expansion ports." I hope they will be set up as the defaul boot ports.
"There will not be PCI support with these chipsets."
"No, USB Super Speed isn't on the roadmap just yet."
"Notable for the Intel H67 is the HD Graphics Support, which allows two independent displays, Integrated Audio Codec and Gigabit Ethernet MAC."
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-6-ser ... /8685.html
Looks Like 1156 Socket is being superseded by a new socket
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Re: Looks Like 1156 Socket is being superseded by a new sock
I believe this bit of info has been known since before the release of Clarkdale processors. Actually, I think I remember reading about this during Lynnfield's release. I think it's one of the reasons why people opt for the Core i7 920 (ergo LGA1366 socket) when the similarly priced Core i7 860 offers better performance while having lower power consumption.ces wrote:Seems like the 1156 Socket is being superseded by a new socket called the 1155 and a new set of support chips. But it looks like USB 2 will not be going anywhere quickly.
I don't see what the fuss is about. Socket changes always annoy people who bought the older hardware. The 478 people were left high and dry by the change to 775, and the 478 buyers who bought boards with AGP were even more affected by the development of PCI Express. And of course there were changes in motherboard memory from DDR->DDR2->DDR3. There will even be Core i7 920 buyers put out by its replacement by the 930.
But who in reality actually buys a motherboard and subsequently changes the CPU? Answer - virtually no one. So having bought your motherboard/CPU/ memory package then, barring hardware failures, it matters not one jot what subsquent hardware developments come out.
My local hardware dealer incidentally is still selling socket 775 motherboards and they stock a full range of 775 CPUs - so someone is obviously still buying this stuff. They even stock 478 CPUs but no motherboards. So whatever new developments may or may not come out, - and just how reliable are tech rumour web sites? - then the older hardware will continue to be supplied if there is the market demand for it.
But who in reality actually buys a motherboard and subsequently changes the CPU? Answer - virtually no one. So having bought your motherboard/CPU/ memory package then, barring hardware failures, it matters not one jot what subsquent hardware developments come out.
My local hardware dealer incidentally is still selling socket 775 motherboards and they stock a full range of 775 CPUs - so someone is obviously still buying this stuff. They even stock 478 CPUs but no motherboards. So whatever new developments may or may not come out, - and just how reliable are tech rumour web sites? - then the older hardware will continue to be supplied if there is the market demand for it.
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Lawrence Lee
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Yes we are used to frequent socket changes and incompatibilities within sockets (e.g. everytime P4 got a FSB bump, going from Pentium 4/D to Core 2), but right now there are 3 Intel desktop sockets which is unprecedented. For those of us who do upgrade their processors (I've gone through 3 on the same socket), it would be nice if there was a clear line of succession.
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faugusztin
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I'm not 100% sure that Socket 1155 means end of Socket 1156. I expect it to be a situation like AM2/AM2+/AM3 - the difference in pins is identification, nothing else. So you won't be able to put a i5 750 to S1155 board, but you will be able to put a new CPU in S1156 board and it will run in some sort of "compatibility mode", like AM3 CPU in AM2+ board. At least i hope Intel wasn't so stupid 
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That's a well taken point. Still it doesn't feel good. That should be our decision, not Intel's.lodestar wrote:But who in reality actually buys a motherboard and subsequently changes the CPU? Answer - virtually no one. So having bought your motherboard/CPU/ memory package then, barring hardware failures, it matters not one jot what subsquent hardware developments come out.
Though is seems likely that the 1155 will be similar to the 1156. What that means is that the 1155 boards will be less of a big jump for the motherboard manufacturers than it will be an opportunity for them to refine the designs of the 1156 boards.
That could mean some nice stable and strong boards in about 18 months that will stand the test of time - for a while - like the 775 mother boards have basically done.
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faugusztin
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NeilBlanchard
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What about: "Notable for the Intel H67 is the HD Graphics Support, which allows two independent displays, Integrated Audio Codec and Gigabit Ethernet MAC." ???yuu wrote:Why is it that I see two chips, didn't intel drop dual chipset already?
The 45nm process should cut the size of 65nm P55 chip on half, removal of PCI legacy, 2.5Watts and passive, and looking like NM10 (that little black thing that goes with atom).
Hear hear!rpsgc wrote:Long live Socket 775!
I'm limping along just fine with my E6600 thank you very much. Eventually I'll upgrade to a Q9650 when they're old and cheap and get another 3-4 years out of my board.
Perhaps a better metric for socket lifespan is how many years it takes before the best CPU available for that socket will no longer provide decent performance. The performance metric should probably be gaming, as that pushes the envelope on hardware more than anything else, although with video cards taking most of the heavy lifting there, it might be an unfair test.
Lifespan = when does the best CPU bottleneck the performance of the video board?
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swivelguy2
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Yeah, I'm pretty confused about that. Aren't those 3 things precisely not notable? Doesn't the current Clarksdale GPU do 2 independent displays, and don't all modern motherboards have onboard audio and gigabit ethernet?ces wrote:What about: "Notable for the Intel H67 is the HD Graphics Support, which allows two independent displays, Integrated Audio Codec and Gigabit Ethernet MAC." ???
Yes, but not integrated into a single chip?swivelguy2 wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty confused about that. Aren't those 3 things precisely not notable... don't all modern motherboards have onboard audio and gigabit ethernet?
I hope so, I just got one with the intention of doing just that.swivelguy2 wrote:Doesn't the current Clarksdale GPU do 2 independent displays
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deruberhanyok
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The quote from the VR zone article is not technically correct. Lynnfield is making use of socket 1156 but Clarkdale is using 1155 already.
Some info on LGA1155:
You may have heard that Clarkdale brings with it a new socket type, dubbed LGA1155. That's true, but it's not entirely new: this is just one fewer pin than the LGA1156 sockets used with Lynnfield Core i5 and i7 processors, with the extra pin used to signal integrated graphics capabilities. The reality is that LGA1155 and LGA1156 processors and motherboards are largely interoperable: one may, for instance, install a Core i5-750 in an H57 motherboard and use it, so long as a discrete graphics card is available. Similarly, we installed our Core i5-661 in a P55 board with discrete graphics, and it worked effortlessly. Just don't expect that H57 motherboard's VGA port to do anything when you have a Lynnfield processor installed, and don't expect to make use of a Clarkdale IGP on a P55 board.
(Source)
I'm making an educated guess here: I think the Sandy Bridge chips will function in the 1156 socket boards but with video disabled. As long as there is proper BIOS/voltage support. If the architecture is so massive a change that it won't, then they probably won't work in existing 1155 boards anyways.
Some info on LGA1155:
You may have heard that Clarkdale brings with it a new socket type, dubbed LGA1155. That's true, but it's not entirely new: this is just one fewer pin than the LGA1156 sockets used with Lynnfield Core i5 and i7 processors, with the extra pin used to signal integrated graphics capabilities. The reality is that LGA1155 and LGA1156 processors and motherboards are largely interoperable: one may, for instance, install a Core i5-750 in an H57 motherboard and use it, so long as a discrete graphics card is available. Similarly, we installed our Core i5-661 in a P55 board with discrete graphics, and it worked effortlessly. Just don't expect that H57 motherboard's VGA port to do anything when you have a Lynnfield processor installed, and don't expect to make use of a Clarkdale IGP on a P55 board.
(Source)
I'm making an educated guess here: I think the Sandy Bridge chips will function in the 1156 socket boards but with video disabled. As long as there is proper BIOS/voltage support. If the architecture is so massive a change that it won't, then they probably won't work in existing 1155 boards anyways.
Too true. We don't even know if any of the current chipsets would support Sandy Bridge. Even if socket LGA1366 will also be used for Sandy Bridge, if the X58 chipset doesn't support it, then you won't be able to upgrade the processor anyway.deruberhanyok wrote:If the architecture is so massive a change that it won't, then they probably won't work in existing 1155 boards anyways.
Yeah, I know. But Intel has been flipping out this 1155 and withdrawing it, back and forth for a while. It could well be some kind of marketing decision as opposed to an engineering decision.psyopper wrote:I'm hopeful but not so sure I trust the article. If Clarkdale is already 1155 (1156 -1) how does the "extra" pin indicate graphics? It's got one fewer pins, not one extra.
Seems goofy to me. But not so goofy that Intel hasn't at least given it several test balloons.
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deruberhanyok
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My understanding of it is that not all of the LGA1156 pins are "used" by Lynnfield (I use quotes to indicate "used" as in "critical to operation") and so, since the Clarkdale processors require the FDI output for the integrated graphics to function, they just shuffled some of those "unused" pins around. As a result, while the sockets both have 1156 pins, only 1155 are used on the Clarkdale processors.psyopper wrote:I'm hopeful but not so sure I trust the article. If Clarkdale is already 1155 (1156 -1) how does the "extra" pin indicate graphics? It's got one fewer pins, not one extra.
If the Clarkdale processor is installed in a P55 motherboard, it sees no FDI output available and so the onboard graphics are disabled. If a Lynnfield processor is installed in an H55 motherboard, it doesn't even notice the FDI output as it wasn't "using" those pins anyways.
I could be completely off there, but that's how I understand it works. I saw an explanation somewhere comparing the two which is where I got this from but I cannot for the life of me find the article I read. If I stumble across it again I'll link it here. Sorry.
Yes, that makes sense.
So in simple terms what you have currently is 45nm processors which fit an LGA 1156 socket and do not do graphics. And 32nm processors which fit an LGA 1156 socket and do graphics, but this is on a separate die to the CPU. With the slight anomaly that the graphics part is 45nm technology.
Sandy Bridge looks to me like 32nm for both graphics and CPU, as they are on one die, which fits LGA 1156, and there will also be an LGA 1366 version which will allow a 6 core CPU without graphics.
There are going to be new 1156 chipsets but I would assume that these would accommodate any existing LGA 1156 processor including the about to be superseded 45nm models. Equally the X58 motherboards will accommodate the Sandy Bridge 6 core with nothing more than a BIOS update.
This all looks more evolutionary than revolutionary to me. And the exact opposite to "....(the) 1156 Socket is being superseded by a new socket...".
So in simple terms what you have currently is 45nm processors which fit an LGA 1156 socket and do not do graphics. And 32nm processors which fit an LGA 1156 socket and do graphics, but this is on a separate die to the CPU. With the slight anomaly that the graphics part is 45nm technology.
Sandy Bridge looks to me like 32nm for both graphics and CPU, as they are on one die, which fits LGA 1156, and there will also be an LGA 1366 version which will allow a 6 core CPU without graphics.
There are going to be new 1156 chipsets but I would assume that these would accommodate any existing LGA 1156 processor including the about to be superseded 45nm models. Equally the X58 motherboards will accommodate the Sandy Bridge 6 core with nothing more than a BIOS update.
This all looks more evolutionary than revolutionary to me. And the exact opposite to "....(the) 1156 Socket is being superseded by a new socket...".
Yes except Intel keeps flashing this thing about an 1155 socket. Why they would do that, even if it were true, is beyond me. I am highly confident that this is not increasing the sales of 1156 systems.lodestar wrote:Sandy Bridge looks to me like 32nm for both graphics and CPU, as they are on one die, which fits LGA 1156, .
It would be nice to have an official Intel source for that. From what I can see from Intel's web site, including all the technical information for developers, there is nowhere any mention of a 1155 socket. There are several technology articles which talk about "Next Generation Processors - Westmere and Sandy Bridge", and the fact that the two are put together in that way suggests to me that Sandy Bridge is very definitely an evolution of Westmere and so would not involve a socket change.
I've never seen any indications that current boards will work with the next CPU's, and I don't think it will.
Intel have used the same socket for two CPU types/manufacturing process for a while now.
423: 180 nm only
478: 180, 130, 90 nm
775: 90, 65 nm
775: 65, 45 nm
1156: 45, 32 nm
Even if the same socket is used for years, the bus speed have been the reason why you shouldn't look at the socket type only, at least for the older CPU's like P4 and Athlon XP.
In retrospect, people tend to get nostalgic and totally forgets that the bus speed was raised, maybe even doubled (478 and Socket A).
Good luck trying to find a 478 board that was made in the 180 nm days and still work with a 800 MHz bus speed, which many 90 nm CPU's needed.
Or, you weren't happy with 2 x 128 MB RDRAM and want to get the new DDR RAM because it's so much cheaper. You need a new board but it's still 478.
There are so many features to consider when looking for CPU upgrade options that the actual CPU socket type is hardly the only limiting factor.
The 775 happened to be reused, which gave the customers the option to use an old CPU with a newer board.
It's of course a good thing in short term if you want to upgrade, but most people want to do the opposite, to upgrade the CPU.
Intel messed up the tick tock strategy badly, with no 32 nm counterpart for Lynnfiled, and no 45 nm counterpart for the Clarkdale.
Lack of competition, economical recession and the fear of competing with it's own 1366 CPU's are the most possible reasons I can come up with.
For the end user though, there was never a good way to upgrade path, since the two CPU's used on socket 1156 serves different purposes.
Intel have used the same socket for two CPU types/manufacturing process for a while now.
423: 180 nm only
478: 180, 130, 90 nm
775: 90, 65 nm
775: 65, 45 nm
1156: 45, 32 nm
Even if the same socket is used for years, the bus speed have been the reason why you shouldn't look at the socket type only, at least for the older CPU's like P4 and Athlon XP.
In retrospect, people tend to get nostalgic and totally forgets that the bus speed was raised, maybe even doubled (478 and Socket A).
Good luck trying to find a 478 board that was made in the 180 nm days and still work with a 800 MHz bus speed, which many 90 nm CPU's needed.
Or, you weren't happy with 2 x 128 MB RDRAM and want to get the new DDR RAM because it's so much cheaper. You need a new board but it's still 478.
There are so many features to consider when looking for CPU upgrade options that the actual CPU socket type is hardly the only limiting factor.
The 775 happened to be reused, which gave the customers the option to use an old CPU with a newer board.
It's of course a good thing in short term if you want to upgrade, but most people want to do the opposite, to upgrade the CPU.
Intel messed up the tick tock strategy badly, with no 32 nm counterpart for Lynnfiled, and no 45 nm counterpart for the Clarkdale.
Lack of competition, economical recession and the fear of competing with it's own 1366 CPU's are the most possible reasons I can come up with.
For the end user though, there was never a good way to upgrade path, since the two CPU's used on socket 1156 serves different purposes.
Not "by far", it was used for 39 months before it was replaced by S754.NeilBlanchard wrote:Socket A was the longest lived, by far.
The second generation 775 was used for 38 months, until 1156 showed up. One can always argue that 1366 showed up much earlier, but face it, it was never meant to be the successor for 775.
Yes, I think you're probably right. But if you look at the 775 evolution you had a series of chipsets, the newer ones supporting the new CPUs while continuing to support older CPUs. So you could use an older CPU in a newer board, but broadly not a newer CPU in an older board.Mats wrote:I've never seen any indications that current boards will work with the next CPU's, and I don't think it will.
Bearing in mind that the rumour mentions P67 and H67 chipsets, it looks to me that 1156 socket is going the same way. Sandy Bridge will only need a H67 chipset, since it combines the CPU and graphics on one die. The only logical reason for P67 is to continue to support the 1156 Core i5s and i7s, so that it seems that those CPUs and developments of them continue to have a future.
There are other reasons for P67 and H67, such as adding new features - USB 3.0 etc. In addition P55/H57 are 65 nm chipsets, so I would expect P67/H67 to shrink down to 45 nm to reduce power consumption and potentially reduce system noise.
I don't see how any of this could possibly affect anyone contemplating buying socket 1156 CPUs and/or motherboards right now since it seems Sandy Bridge is at least a year away.