Optimal CPU/chipset/mobo for a passively cooled PC..?

[canardlover]

Hi folks, just planning to build a fast but passively cooled PC intended for internet surfing/video editing/model airplane simulator/general office use.
I plan to try the new Nofan A40 set described in a review thread in this Forum:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=61891
I would appreciate your advise regarding the choice of CPU/chipset/mobo before I place my order. My research so far points to the following combination:
intel i5 2400 on a Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 mobo which will enable me to fully use the integrated graphics and the "smart response technology" for my intended SSD with Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit) OS on it.
Maybe you have a different opinion and want to enlighten me with your experience....Please do so...Thanks in advance.. ..!

[boost]

... Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 mobo which will enable me to fully use the integrated graphics and the "smart response technology" for my intended SSD with Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit) OS on it.

To use Intel Smart Response you need a Raid array of hard drives connected to the Z68 chipset's SATA ports (min 2 for Raid 0 or 1, min 5 for Raid 5) and Windows Vista or Windows 7 with Intel driver Softaware version 10.5 and up. You can use a SSD connected to another of the Z68 chipset's SATA ports to cache reads (safe mode) or reads and writes (high performance mode) to said array.
If you use a single SSD for all your data you don't need Smart Response or a Z68 chipset. If you use a i5-2400 non K CPU without overclocking you can use a H67 board, too.
Both Z68 and H67 support the integrated graphics.

I would appreciate your advise regarding the choice of CPU/chipset/mobo before I place my order. My research so far points to the following combination:
intel i5 2400 on a Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 mobo ... .

Good combination.
If you want to upgrade to a discrete graphic card later on you should take a look at the ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3. The PCIe 16x slot is so far from the CPU socket that the NOFEN cooler might not interfere. In the Xbitlab's review slots 0 and 1 (counting from the CPU socket) are definitely blocked, slot 2 could work.

I find the NOFEN set a bit overpriced. The cooler's price is ok, it's a unique product. The price of the case and PSU are outlandish. The cooler is 90€, the set 330€. That's 240€ for a bronze certified PSU, a very basic case and a 2.5" backplane.
A Seasonic X-400 FL is 110€, gold certified, very high quality and fully modular.
A Fractal Design Arc is 80€ has a nice aluminum look and accepts 2.5" drives. Its a very open design so fanless operation should work fine, but there's no guarantee that the nofen cooler will fit. There is a lot of room above the mainboard. The installed fan has to be removed and may a little bit af the fan assembly cut.
I would buy the NOFEN set and Fractal ARC case and test the components inside the Fractal Arc. If it fits send back the NOFEN set and get the cooler if not send back the Fractal ARC. I do like a fanless computer, but I don't like the look of the NOFEN case.

[canardlover]

Hi boost and many thanks for your input which took me a while to digest - much appreciated.. .

To use Intel Smart Response you need a Raid array of hard drives connected to the Z68 chipset's SATA ports

Ok, my thinking is to use a smaller SSD with the OS on it plus a silent rubbermounted HDD (eventually enclosed) for storage. I guess that combination may result in an endless "tweaking session" ahead but that is another story. A hybrid drive like the OCZ Revodrive would be an alternative but rather costly.

upgrade to a discrete graphic card later on you should take a look at the ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3.

Wow, that was important news to me, I will check that mobo further for its compatibility with the "washing machine drum"... ..!

I would buy the NOFEN set and Fractal ARC case and test the components inside the Fractal Arc

Excellent idea, I will check with my local vendor if the cooler can be bought separately. The Fractal Arc case is 230mm wide while the NOFEN cases range from only 172 to 196 mm in width so that should work. Further the cooler comes in three slightly different sizes just in case.
I agree that the Nofen sets are a bit expensive but to achieve silence I´m certainly prepared to pay a premium for the cooler.

A Seasonic X-400 FL is 110€, gold certified, very high quality and fully modular.

OK, thanks for that suggestion, will check it out in more detail. Coil whine is the last thing I want.
Again, thanks a lot boost for these valuable viewpoints... ..!!

[CA_Steve]

If video editing is a frequent activity, you might consider getting 128GB SSD. It's better to run the app and the working file from the SSD than from a HDD. Plus, 64GB are significantly slower.

[boost]

Quote:
upgrade to a discrete graphic card later on you should take a look at the ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3.

Wow, that was important news to me, I will check that mobo further for its compatibility with the "washing machine drum"... ..!

Looking at the pictures of the Asrock board again I think the Nofen cooler won't fit. The CPU is too close to the backpanel and the ports on the ATX panel will interfere with the cooler. Sorry, diddn't mean to mislead you, just throwing ideas around.
Did you consider a HFX case?
There's a bigger one and a mini ITX version available, too.
The heatpipe cooling is fanless and it works great. The cost of a case (300€-350€), the necessary heatpipe cooler(80€) and a fanless PSU(110€) is pretty steep, but then again not that much more compared to the nofen. I think you get your money's worth because the build quality and looks are top notch.

[canardlover]

Looking at the pictures of the Asrock board again I think the Nofen cooler won't fit.

Hi again boost, I also looked at images of the Asrock Z68 Pro3 Gen3 and then pasted in a circle corresponding to the smaller diameter NOFEN cooler CR100C into Powerpoint and ....BINGO.... .. ...!! it appears the smaller diameter cooler will fit - see attached pic.
To my dismay I found out that most images of ATX mobos on google have their aspect ratio severely distorted so I had to adjust this one to achieve 305 x 244 mm and then adding a 180mm circle.
To my surprise the thin circle on the board around the CPU socket is now being distorted... .. ... ...????..this beats me..!
Anyway, your suggestion may not be so bad after all...thanks boost..!worst case would be a little "surgery" to make it fit.

Steve, thanks for chipping in on the choice of drive(s) - I think your suggestion makes good sense and then I can make back-ups of photos etc on an external HDD. Silence is golden.... ..!

[boost]

To my dismay I found out that most images of ATX mobos on google have their aspect ratio severely distorted so I had to adjust this one to achieve 305 x 244 mm and then adding a 180mm circle.
To my surprise the thin circle on the board around the CPU socket is now being distorted... .. ... ...????..this beats me..!
Anyway, your suggestion may not be so bad after all...thanks boost..!worst case would be a little "surgery" to make it fit.

I'm afraid it won't. The board is only 30.5 cm x 19.1 cm. The cooler will collide with the ATX ports.

[canardlover]

Hmmmm... ....according to this site specs. it should be a full ATX board 30.5 x 24.4 cm:
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalo ... tech-specs
but interestingly the associated picture shows a board with less depth so I am now utterly confused.
So what size of board is that..??..none of the more common ones.
OK even if it is 305 x 191 mm are you sure the cooler will hit the ATX port..? The cooler is raised to allow room for the RAM provided they are DDR3 without cooling fins on them.
http://www.nofancomputer.com/eng/products/set_A40.php
I think I will consult the Forum at:
http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/produc ... nof-cr-95c
before giving up on the Asrock board...!!

[ces]

1. Intel motherboards can generally be relied upon to use the least energy. But that isn't going to make all that much difference regarding heat.

2. A dual core Sandy bridge with hyperthreading probably have enough performance for anything... and will only use a few watts under most conditions.

The problem is that with the Sandy Bridge chips, they will all generate about the same amount of heat for the same amount of work... it is just that the higher performance ones can sustain more work so when you load them they generate more heat. So there is a direct relationship between the performance you want and the heat load you are going to generate. Heat will be determined more by what you ask the computer to do than by the CPU chip you pick

3. The most performance per unit of heat will come from using a 120G SSD. I would keep your irreplaceable data on a traditional hard drive though. SSD flash memory has a reputation of permitting files to degrade over a far shorter time than magnetic disks. That is OK for a boot drive with replaceable software... not so good for non-replaceable data files.

4. It is just so unwise going full passive. Get some 500 rpm slipstreams. They won't make any noise and even just the slight drift of air they will generate will make a whole lot of difference.

[canardlover]

Hi ces and thanks for your input, please see my respones:

2. A dual core Sandy bridge with hyperthreading probably have enough performance for anything.

..and by that you mean it is very unlikely that I will need a VGA card..?...GREAT...!!

3. The most performance per unit of heat will come from using a 120G SSD.

..not sure I get that - can you please elaborate a bit...thanks..!

4. It is just so unwise going full passive. Get some 500 rpm slipstreams.

...OK, here I must admit that I secretely thought about keeping a fan in the case.... ...but it would be connected to start only when some of the measured point(s) reached a set value. That would alert the driver to slow down a bit (or continue to listen to the fan).... ....waddayathink..??

Regarding mobos as discussed above with boost it may be wise to stick to a full ATX "UD" board to better spread the heat over a larger surface. That is what Quiet PC delivers in the UK in their NOFAN builds.

[ces]

Hi ces and thanks for your input, please see my respones:

2. A dual core Sandy bridge with hyperthreading probably have enough performance for anything.

..and by that you mean it is very unlikely that I will need a VGA card..?...GREAT...!!

I was thinking more about the CPU. I am not a gamer, but I think if you are serious about gaming you will need a VGA card.

[ces]

3. The most performance per unit of heat will come from using a 120G SSD.

..not sure I get that - can you please elaborate a bit...thanks..!

Well you can upgrade the CPU, but that will cost you heat in exchange for the performance. At the cost of less heat, you can upgrade your hard drive to an SSD and get a lot more performance for little to no increase in heat.

[ces]

Regarding mobos as discussed above with boost it may be wise to stick to a full ATX "UD" board to better spread the heat over a larger surface. That is what Quiet PC delivers in the UK in their NOFAN builds.

I don't think it is going to make much difference. Get a downdraft Noctua Noctua NH-D14 with the fans set on low.

[canardlover]

Well you can upgrade the CPU, but that will cost you heat in exchange for the performance. At the cost of less heat, you can upgrade your hard drive to an SSD and get a lot more performance for little to no increase in heat.

OK, now I see what you mean...yep, I do agree and I see four main choices here:
1) single SSD at 120GB (or more) as you pointed out (fast and silent)
2) single hybrid drive like the OCZ RevoDrive at 1TB (less hazzle, some noise)
3) one SSD and one HDD in RAID0 (fast but unsafe)
4) one SSD and one HDD with the HDD "idling" as an "archive disc (not sure it works well)
..viewpoints please... ..!
I´m not a gaimer so I will skip the VGA card for now but with the option to add one later

Get a downdraft Noctua Noctua NH-D14 with the fans set on low.

...why downdraft fan..??..I thought I should help the natural upwards convection of air...please explain...Thanks..!

I chose the i5 2400 since it was the CPU giving most performance per watt
http://www.silentpcreview.com/intel-2100t-2400s
...so I´m pretty determined to at least start out "passive" but again with the option to have the fan as a safety feature.

Thanks a lot for your viewpoints ces and I know now that the CR95 cooler can be bought as a separate item .... ....and I will thus skip the Nofan A40/43 sets..(thanks boost.. )
Please give me some guidance on the SSD/HDD issue and I feel ready to place my order.
Again - I am very happy to be able to "pick your brains" since I am just a dabbler in this area...THANK YOU both..!!

[boost]

1) single SSD at 120GB (or more) as you pointed out (fast and silent)
2) single hybrid drive like the OCZ RevoDrive at 1TB (less hazzle, some noise)
3) one SSD and one HDD in RAID0 (fast but unsafe)
4) one SSD and one HDD with the HDD "idling" as an "archive disc (not sure it works well)
..viewpoints please... ..!

What's your current hard drive use?
Do you use more than 120GB?
Will you use a case with room for 3 2.5" drives?
If so you can use two 2,5" notebook drives (500GB WD Scorpio Blue 5k) in Raid 1 (mirroring) to create a 500GB raid array with fault tolerance: If one drive fails the data will still be ok.
You can use a 64GB SSd (Crucial m4) to cache the array to get near SSD speeds.
Cost for 500GB: 75€*3=225€.
Cost for 1000GB (2*WD Scorpio Blue 1TB): 110€*2+75€ = 295€
The best SSD drives: (Prices for 60/120/240GB in €)
1. Intel 520 115/185/430
2. Samsung 830 -/160/310
tied for 2. OCZ Vertex 3: 85/140/285
3. Crucial m4: 75/130/275
If you need a lot of hard disk space the caching option has the better price/performance ration.
And if either one of the hard drives or the SSD fails you can still access the data.
If you don't need that much space a single SSD is the simpler option.

I chose the i5 2400 since it was the CPU giving most performance per watt
http://www.silentpcreview.com/intel-2100t-2400s
...so I´m pretty determined to at least start out "passive" but again with the option to have the fan as a safety feature.

Why? The regular 2400 uses only 5W more under full load and is faster, 3,1GHz vs. 2.5GHz. The difference is negligeble for cooling. In real world test the difference was only 2W.

Please read the Asrock's Z68 Pro3 Gen3 specification from their website (again?).
They clearly state the board is 30.5 * 19.1cm. I'll say it again: I think the ATX ports are too close to the CPU and will interfere with the NOFEN cooler. Otherwise it's a great board.

[canardlover]

OK guys, just trying to wrap up where I am mentally now after your helpful viewpoints:

intel i5 2400 (maybe slightly undervolted)
GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3
Nofan CR95C
Seasonic X-400 FL
2 x 4GB DDR3 RAM
120GB SSD (+ external HDD for back-up)
DWD+/- RW 22X SATA
Fractal Design Arc case (with one fan still in place and triggered by some preset critical point)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

How many for..?.................
How many against..?.........

[Vicotnik]

Why fanless?

Get a large cooler for the CPU, there's a ton of them. Place a fan on it (or a case fan close to it). Have the motherboard control the fan. Done.

Messing with having a fan not spinning and then spinning when needed? Why? You cannot hear a good 120mm fan @ 500RPM so why bother? Your main source of noise will probably be the TFT buzzing, or coil whine from the motherboard or the PSU.

Also, if you don't need all that an ATX motherboard offers you could go mini ITX, make everything smaller. If you know for sure that you will not add a discrete graphics card later you could even go truly fanless with a heatpipe case.

[lordmetroid]

One would think that being on the SPCR website, reasons for going fanless would be obvious.

I personally am going to build a system similar to a Silent Mini-ITX build showcased on the Swecklocker website. I started posting some inquiries about such a system a month ago in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63835 hope you can find some help from the ongoing discussions.

[Vicotnik]

One would think that being on the SPCR website, reasons for going fanless would be obvious.

A common mistake. Fanless makes sense sometimes, but sometimes not. With desktop class hardware it's still difficult and often costly. Of course it's nice to have a system with no moving parts but with the hardware listed I see little sense in omitting a fan.

[HFat]

I like fanless builds more than most. But this doesn't look like a good idea.

[boost]

I think it will work well.
The Arc has two sets of fan grills one in the case, one in the top panel. You might have to cut the case's grills a little bit if the cooler overhangs too much.
I'd like to see pictures of the final build and temps, please.

[canardlover]

Why fanless?

Get a large cooler for the CPU, there's a ton of them. Place a fan on it (or a case fan close to it). Have the motherboard control the fan. Done.

I thought that was exactly what I was proposing..?!?

I like fanless builds more than most. But this doesn't look like a good idea.

OK HFat, could you please be a bit more specific...Thank you..!

[HFat]

Others have pointed out the most obvious issues with your plan.

It doesn't look like you've got the skill/experience to experiment.
My advice is therefore to use one or two fans and to stick with cheaper parts which are known to work well and to be compatible. You could even copy someone's successful build.

You're planning to spend a lot of money of parts which are not the best on the market like that and/or which will soon be replaced by better models. I wouldn't buy a single of the specific parts you selected.
And your build may not even work without a fan in the end. If it works, you may lose your pointlessly expensive mobo early due to excessive temperature swings. It would be an interesting experiment but do you want a reliable computer or an experiment?
If you really want to spend a lot of money on a fanless build, there's a solution which is known to work (sort of). See the HFX link above. Pair that with an Ivy Bridge CPU and an efficient board and you'd get the best fanless computer I've ever heard about. And it would be elegant. It would be expensive but you would at least get something for your money. But, considering your requirements which include unspecified editing of videos at unspecified resolutions as well as an unspecified game, I recommend giving up on your fanless goal instead. That'll give you more flexibility.

[ces]

I personally am going to build a system similar to a Silent Mini-ITX build showcased on the Swecklocker website. I started posting some inquiries about such a system a month ago in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63835 hope you can find some help from the ongoing discussions.

That is one heck of a fanless build. I love it.

[Vicotnik]

Get a large cooler for the CPU, there's a ton of them. Place a fan on it (or a case fan close to it). Have the motherboard control the fan. Done.

I thought that was exactly what I was proposing..?!?

No, the fan would only be spinning when needed (difficult to manage) and the very large and expensive Nofan CR95C was to be used. I would go with a fan that slows down but doesn't stop and a much cheaper heatsink.

I would also get a different motherboard, ATX is very large and mini ITX would probably do. Then the case could also be smaller. If mini ITX is too small, if for example you might add expansion cards or a discrete graphics card in the future, or might use four sticks of RAM, then perhaps mATX is better. Have you picked an ATX motherboard for a specific reason?
i5-2500K is very popular, I see no reason to go with an i5-2400, especially if you will be using a Z68 motherboard.

[canardlover]

I personally am going to build a system similar to a Silent Mini-ITX build showcased on the Swecklocker website. I started posting some inquiries about such a system a month ago in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63835 hope you can find some help from the ongoing discussions.

That is one heck of a fanless build. I love it.

Hi ces, you mean this one... ...seriously..?!?

[canardlover]

My present position :- Hi guys, let me state that
nothing factually new has emerged since my last “wrap up” so I am still here:

intel i5 2400 (maybe slightly undervolted)
GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3
Nofan CR95C
Seasonic X-400 FL
2 x 4GB DDR3 RAM
120GB SSD (+ external HDD for back-up)
DWD+/- RW 22X SATA
Fractal Design Arc case (with one fan still in place and triggered by some preset critical point)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

Many thanks to all of you for viewpoints and in particular to boost and CA_Steve who guided me in the right direction. I just saw that “my new PSU” is on the “SPCR preferred list”…GREAT..!
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_PSUs

Tinnitus: - some of you may wonder why I am so adamant about “going passive”. Well, 17 years ago I extracted a wisdom tooth and after that I have had constant tinnitus. Interestingly, there is an article here on SPCR on this topic, illustrating that there is much more to tinnitus than just fan noise:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Electroni ... d_Tinnitus

the “Dust Argument”: - NOFAN clearly advise against the use of fan(s) in connection with their passive cooler…PERIOD..!!

SpeedFan: - on my previous PC I had good use of SpeedFan for regulation but my “new mobo” above is NOT on this list:
http://www.almico.com/forummotherboards.php?man=264
As HFat correctly points out this is both an investment and an experiment and I intend to measure critical “hot spots” to trigger the “emergency fan(s)” before. .!! Maybe via BIOS like here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO8mwpK1 ... re=related
…please share your experience here..!!!

Cases: - size is not an issue for me – I have plenty of room in my office and even consider going up one step further to a Fractal Design XL with the slanted 180mm roof fan. Will try to find out whether it will clear the NOFAN CR95C…viewpoints..?!

a PC to grow(old) with: - at 67 this could be my last PC ever so I will plan ahead and keep options open. The NOFAN CR95C will block the PCIex16 slot but a future VGA card can be connected to the PCIex8 slot with a (slight?) penalty in performance. A Fractal design case will better allow future addition of SSD/HDD/VGA card..etc. than the smaller Nofan A40 build where I started this “journey”. So I will keep the Z68 chipset.
http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/produc ... ys-a40-z68
See customer reviews at the end...!!..
Alternative PCs: - some of you have mentioned alternatives such as the HFX:es and the Mini-ITX and I have another one next door to me:
http://syskonsult.com/teknisk-specifika ... ost-tower/

Well, I can only say that none of these “makes me tick”. They remind me of the day I assisted a guy when under the hood of his Subaru Impreza. Good stuff but nothing for “after market” additions by “amateur tinkerers” like me.

Alternative passive coolers.?: - it appears to me that NOFAN with heat pipe + “ice pipe” technology has created a useable passive cooler which can handle a quad core CPU at “full bore”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEoUmqzscw
Do you know of any alternative passive cooler which can match this one.? – if so please let me know and I will consider.

Ok guys, I will go travelling for the next two weeks. I will read this Forum occasionally from my laptop but do not count much on me for comments. But please keep info flowing….THANK YOU..!

[boost]

Alternative passive coolers.?: - it appears to me that NOFAN with heat pipe + “ice pipe” technology has created a useable passive cooler which can handle a quad core CPU at “full bore”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEoUmqzscw
Do you know of any alternative passive cooler which can match this one.? – if so please let me know and I will consider.

Didn't want to steer you away from a solution that would work. Xbitlabs tested the Nofen Set and the Termalright HR-02. The Thermalright was just slightly better. The new version HR-02 Macho is inexpensive and a great place to start. In an open case like the Arc it should work fanless, unless you plan to stress the CPU 100% for long periods at a time.

[canardlover]

Alternative passive coolers.?: - it appears to me that NOFAN with heat pipe + “ice pipe” technology has created a useable passive cooler which can handle a quad core CPU at “full bore”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEoUmqzscw
Do you know of any alternative passive cooler which can match this one.? – if so please let me know and I will consider.

The new version HR-02 Macho is inexpensive and a great place to start. In an open case like the Arc it should work fanless, unless you plan to stress the CPU 100% for long periods at a time.

boost, thanks a lot for making me aware of the "Macho", after quickly reading a review of it I am now prepared to change my setup accordingly. From the top of my head (currently in a hotel in Denmark) I see four distinct advantages vs. the NOFAN:
1) the PCIex16 slot will be accessible
2) RAMs with cooling fins can be mounted
3) better clearance for case roof fan(s) due to the square shape of the Macho
4) price tag on HR-02 Macho is roughly half that of the NOFAN
THANK YOU boost.. ..!!!

I still owe you a response on the CPU discussion in your post above from Feb.20th at 4:59PM:(I think they should consecutively number the posts)
My simple thinking was that the i5 2400 scored best on both Performance/watt and the weighted SPCR score i thet review. Better than both 2400K and 2400S. Further I am probably more of an "undervolter" than an "overclocker" so why bother with the 2400K..?
Please enlighten me here if I misunderstood you...Thanks and bye for now..sack time here...

[Vicotnik]

2500K, not 2400K. 2500K has the better graphics, it's unlocked (and with a Z68 motherboard you can use that if you wish) is slightly faster and not that much more expensive. You have not said whether or not cost is a concern at all so..

The 2500K seems not to be included in the Performance/watt table at all
- http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1202-page7.html

I think boost thought that you meant to get the 2400S rather than the normal 2400. But I would argue for the 2500K rather than the 2400. You might also consider the cheaper dual cores rather than the quads if you feel that they would be adequate. "Overall performance" divided by "average system power consumption" is really a bit arbitrary. I would not base my choice of CPU on that alone. Do you know if the tasks you will use the system for has great use for many cores? A dual core is cheaper and easier to cool, especially if you plan to go on with this all passive business..