Skylake thoughts

All about them.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Irrelevant
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:44 am

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by Irrelevant » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:06 pm

Just a note to everyone: just because a mobo has Alpine Ridge doesn't necessarily mean it's Thunderbolt-capable. Gigabyte used to have Thunderbolt support listed on all their Alpine Ridge-equipped Z170 mobos, but they've since removed it (and well after commercial release, too, I believe) and then released the Z170X-UD5 TH, which they claim is the only TB3-certified mobo on the market (and for that, they charge you $40 more and withhold a few of the non-TH UD5's nicer features).

IMO, Thunderbolt 3's release has been confusing, frustrating, and disappointing. There are only two mobos that currently claim to be TB3-capable (one of them unreleased), no one's selling appropriate cables/adapters, and AFAIK no one's talking about it. I'd say TB3 is a complete flop, but flops at least make a splash. TB3 seems to have disappeared with scarcely a whisper. Anyone know what happened, where things are going, or when I might be able to buy a USB-C to Thunderbolt 1 adapter? I'm looking to upgrade in the next month, and Thunderbolt support is a major issue for me.
If you've examined both sides of an argument, you haven't examined enough sides.

edh
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by edh » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:24 am

Two more things I've been thinking about:
The i3 6320 is not a huge amount cheaper than the i5 6400. Usage scenario will obviously have a huge impact on this but it is entirely possible that the lower core count but higher clock speed of the i3 will make it faster for many people. Haven't seen any reviews of anything other than high end processors but i3 vs i5 would be an interesting comparison to see. i3 manages lower power consumption too.

With motherboards one thing that will drive my decision is M.2. It seems that M.2 is largely confined to Z170 motherboards, with a few exceptions. This is a shame as lower end motherboards used in lighter, thinner systems would be the ones most to benefit from M.2. I'm guessing marketing forces won this argument.
Raijintek Metis: i5-6400, Scythe Ninja 4, Asus Z170i Pro Gaming, 8Gb RAM, GTX 950, Crucial 250Gb M.2, Seasonic X-400

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7449
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Monterey Bay, CA

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:18 pm

edh wrote:The i3 6320 is not a huge amount cheaper than the i5 6400. Usage scenario will obviously have a huge impact on this but it is entirely possible that the lower core count but higher clock speed of the i3 will make it faster for many people.
There are games out there where CPU clock rate wins over core count. Esp. @ 1080p.
edh wrote:With motherboards one thing that will drive my decision is M.2. It seems that M.2 is largely confined to Z170 motherboards, with a few exceptions.
Only Z170 and H170 chipsets support (..and have the lanes to support) RST over PCIe.

To go along with the lesser CPU reviews, there is an amazing lack of H170 mobo reviews out there.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

edh
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by edh » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:02 pm

CA_Steve wrote:There are games out there where CPU clock rate wins over core count.
Exactly. Many basic uses for a computer will also show no discernible advantage at all to more cores. If it's any consolation the cores do clock up and down separately so the extra power usage for idle cores will be negligible. I do also wonder what the overlocking potential may be for i3 versus i5. Maybe the i3 6320 is already fairly close to it's limit (it has no turbo mode) and an overclocked i5 6400 might be able to match it clock for clock for single threaded tasks. I think I will go i5, and I've very sorry to say it and contradict what we keep saying on these forums, for 'futureproofing'. :lol:
CA_Steve wrote: Only Z170 and H170 chipsets support (..and have the lanes to support) RST over PCIe.
Try and find an H170 board with M.2 that doesn't have DDR3 or something else wrong with it. You're pretty much stuck with Z170 if you want M.2
CA_Steve wrote:To go along with the lesser CPU reviews, there is an amazing lack of H170 mobo reviews out there.
Agreed. Only motherboards I've seen reviews of are Z170 ATX boards and most of them haven't been the common or garden Z170 but the uberl33t WTF FFS OMFG!!! edition that got dragged backwards through Mad Mr Wong's overly bright LED factory and costs twice as much as a result.
Raijintek Metis: i5-6400, Scythe Ninja 4, Asus Z170i Pro Gaming, 8Gb RAM, GTX 950, Crucial 250Gb M.2, Seasonic X-400

yakuman
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:05 am
Location: Canada

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by yakuman » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:10 pm

edh wrote:Try and find an H170 board with M.2 that doesn't have DDR3 or something else wrong with it. You're pretty much stuck with Z170 if you want M.2
I beg to differ: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H170M ... fications/ This has both M.2 and DDR4 (mind you it has a limit frequency of 2133Mhz) I'm planning to get the H170M-PLUS/CSM version, which basically I imagine is the same with the Corporate Stable Model Program
Last edited by yakuman on Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7449
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Monterey Bay, CA

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:11 pm

Asus H170 Pro and Pro Gaming support DDR4 and these are the two boards I'd suggest for non-OC gaming, anyway as they also have Intel NIC.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Irrelevant
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:44 am

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by Irrelevant » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:20 am

Not sure if anyone but me cares, but I thought I'd post this anyway: two of Gigabyte's previous Z170 mobos have now received Thunderbolt 3 certification, suggesting that TB3 support doesn't require a whole lot more than an Alpine Ridge controller. Here's hoping that's true, because TB3 really has a lot going for it, and eGPUs aren't the only application that could make good use of it.
If you've examined both sides of an argument, you haven't examined enough sides.

edh
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: UK

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by edh » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:31 pm

Plunge taken. i5 6400 and Z170i Pro Gaming on their way along with other components for a fairly unique MiniITX system. Will post a build thread in a week or so.
Raijintek Metis: i5-6400, Scythe Ninja 4, Asus Z170i Pro Gaming, 8Gb RAM, GTX 950, Crucial 250Gb M.2, Seasonic X-400

dev_guy
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:10 am

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by dev_guy » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:48 am

edh wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:To go along with the lesser CPU reviews, there is an amazing lack of H170 mobo reviews out there.
Agreed. Only motherboards I've seen reviews of are Z170 ATX boards and most of them haven't been the common or garden Z170 but the uberl33t WTF FFS OMFG!!! edition that got dragged backwards through Mad Mr Wong's overly bright LED factory and costs twice as much as a result.
Ha! I agree about all the nonsense. The motherboard business has become very competitive so there's a ton of marketing money being spent on trying to differentiate similar products while adding nearly every feature your competitor has. Sadly, despite all the plastic covers, "5X Life!" claims, stickers, colored heatsinks, etc, they still do incredibly stupid things like jamb the hardest worked capacitors right up against some of the hottest parts on the entire board.

I think comparisons like this tell a much more accurate story--there really isn't that much difference between same chipset motherboards in terms of performance, power consumption, etc. So it comes down to a few feature differences (like Thunderbird or not), the quality of the components used, how well the board is laid out, the BIOS features, and stability.

http://uk.hardware.info/comparisontable ... 143-317163

Others pointed out Asus moved their Fan Expert into BIOS which is great as their Windows software is usually buggy and bloated and it's now OS independent. But, at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates. I generally like Asus motherboards but as they cram more stuff into the BIOS there are more opportunities for significant bugs.

It would be nice if there were more corporate/enterprise grade motherboards with the latest chipsets, quality components, and decent feature sets without all the hype, fluff, and nonsense. But that's obviously not a priority in Taiwan.

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7449
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Monterey Bay, CA

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:27 am

Others pointed out Asus moved their Fan Expert into BIOS which is great as their Windows software is usually buggy and bloated and it's now OS independent. But, at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates. I generally like Asus motherboards but as they cram more stuff into the BIOS there are more opportunities for significant bugs.
That's a bummer..and hopefully an early BIOS bug rather than a long term...feature.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

quest_for_silence
Posts: 5275
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Location: ITALY

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:47 am

dev_guy wrote:at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates.

I've a couple of 97 Plus in service, though not in ITX size, but didn't get any issue with their fan control: may you kindly explain more?
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg

dev_guy
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:10 am

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by dev_guy » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:50 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
dev_guy wrote:at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates.

I've a couple of 97 Plus in service, though not in ITX size, but didn't get any issue with their fan control: may you kindly explain more?
It's just been random problems. For example, they allow 20% fan minimums with PWM fans but only 60% minimums with a DC fan. But you switch to DC, mess around with some manual settings, then switch back to PWM and find you're now stuck at a 60% minimum with PWM with no way to get it back to 20% except to factory reset the entire BIOS and lose all your other settings. I also learned the hard way NOT to use the calibration feature as that tends to *really* mess things up with no way to fix it except to reset the entire BIOS. Sometimes you change settings and the "Apply" button is greyed out as if you didn't change anything so your changes don't stick.

And, for all the fancy over-styled graphics and controls, would it be too much to ask to see the current fan RPMs and applicable TEMPs displayed somewhere on the Fan Expert screen? That would make too much sense. But no, you have to exit the Fan Expert and go to an entirely different BIOS page to see those. And from that page you can't change the fan settings. It's very half-baked.

Asus has been repeatedly slammed for poor design, bugs, and bloat in their software applications and enhanced Asus-specific features. But in fairness to Asus, I'm not sure their main competitors (ASRock, Gigabyte, etc.) are much better. Software just isn't their strength. They seem to devote 95% of their application development efforts to making everything over-stylized, animated, game-themed, etc, rather than getting the functionality right and doing enough testing. Even gamers want stuff that works.

quest_for_silence
Posts: 5275
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Location: ITALY

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:04 am

dev_guy wrote:getting the functionality right and doing enough testing. Even gamers want stuff that works.

Doing extensive testings and strict QC procedures are more expensive than everything else in industry, that's mainly why the manufacturers don't do them for our enthusiast-level boards.

BTW, you may give a try to SpeedFan: given that it's not built in hardware, it is not OS independent (differently from a BIOS functionality), but nonetheless it may be somehow interesting, and less intrusive than the ASUS suite (though you wouldn't have any calibration procedure, if that matters).

At any rate, thanks for sharing your experience.
Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg

fjf
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:44 am
Location: Europe

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by fjf » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:19 am

The Asus Z170-Premium seems to have it all: FanXpert3, thunderbolt3....You name it. Will be expensive, for sure, but that thing is TEMPTING!!: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z170-PREMIUM/
Asus z170 deluxe--i7-6700--Ninja 4--32GB RAM G.Skill RipJaws V--GTX960--LG 27MU67--2 samsung SM951 M2-256GB each--Seasonic SS520FL (fanless)--Silverstone FT05

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:29 pm

I wish they would make a 6 core no hyperthreading chip like 1090T was.

I think the idea someone had of dx12 and the extra cores is a sound idea. the 91 watt TPD should be not super hard to quiet.

I cant see the point in getting a 6700 non-k when the 6600 i5 standard just exists for fairly cheap. Either 6700k or 6600k would make sense to me. You either want max power for something or good enough and lots less cash.

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7449
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Monterey Bay, CA

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:30 pm

The downside to these 'kitchen sink' motherboards is high idle power.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:01 pm

I didnt know that. Hm. That is a problem. Do you know the range of differences? approximately

boost
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Location: de_DE

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by boost » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:12 am

Here's a comparison of the power consumption of different Z170 boards. The Z170 Premium has not been tested yet, the Z170 Deluxe seems the closest match.
I have the Z170 Deluxe and I wouldn'tcall 5W higher idle and 20W higher load compared to other Asus Z170 ATX boards a problem. For the lowest power consumption you'll have to buy a MSI board.
Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit, Evga GTX 970 Superclocked, BeQuiet E9 580W CM

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:05 am

very interesting post thanks

pod03
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: UK

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by pod03 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:56 pm

For the boards also tested by SPCR the idle figures are similar to those in this table: http://uk.hardware.info/comparisontable ... 478-317175

The best are lower than any recent mainstream Intel CPU/MOBO combination. Unfortunately they did not test a DH77EB or similar but I am hoping if I switch some features of from the MSI Z170A Gaming M5 and undervolt it I will be able to beat my DH77EB. Just waiting for a decent test of the M3 in case it is better. Anybody have one the can put a killawatt on?

Tzupy
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1561
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:47 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by Tzupy » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:12 am

There appears to be a bug in Skylake, that shows up when running prime95 with 768k test.
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=421167

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7449
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Monterey Bay, CA

Re: Skylake thoughts

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:35 am

Tzupy wrote:There appears to be a bug in Skylake, that shows up when running prime95 with 768k test.
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=421167
..and a fix is on the way.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Post Reply